P Scott Dyvad and David Ginsborg

00:01 How many David? I am? 55 years old. Today's date is Wednesday, April 21st, 2021. I am in Kansas City, Missouri. My partner's name is David and he is my one small step conversation partner.

00:22 My name is David Ginsberg. I am 54 years. Old. Today is Wednesday, April 21 2021. I am in San Jose California. My partner is a Scott activid, and we are apart of the relationship. The partner of the one step one small, step conversation part.

00:51 David's bio for a long time. I have been interested in efforts to better understand Americans with whom I adamantly disagree. I am a native Californian, father of 2, awesome skins, married to the love of my life, for 20 plus years active, in my Jewish congregation, and I worked as a senior manager and local government previously. I worked in commercial real estate. I have lost a brother to covid. I am a proud Eagle Scout love the outdoors and serve on local community boards.

01:24 Scott Baio, I am a 55 year old white male. Marry two boys. We are now empty nesters. I grew up in a small town in Iowa, moved to Kansas City for business in 2003. Imagine construction supply business. I lost my brother when I was 15 and my mom and dad. Before I turned 36. I family is extremely important to me.

01:54 3, 4 minutes to share life story.

01:58 Well, that's pretty much it. You know how I'm a small-town Iowa boy that got married. When I was 26. We had our two boys raised them half the time in Iowa and made the decision to come to Kansas City for better opportunities. And I think it worked out pretty good. One of the reasons why I'm here is both my boys would be more considered liberal and I'm considered a staunch conservative. So when we have our concert, when we have our conversations, they don't always go. So well and now and since I would gladly give my life for my kids, I love them so much. I don't want to spend all my time with them talking about politics. So I thought I'd be a good exercise and listening to meet someone else has that view.

02:51 My name is David and I am, I live in San Jose now and have lived here now for over almost 30 years, but I grew up in Suburbia, land in Orange County, California, which back back in the day was, was Hardcore, very conservative, Republican territory, and very conservative. And one of the things that shaped my growing up, was my parents who lived in out in Los Angeles in the late in the early 70s, rather moved our family to Orange County cuz they did not want us to be best.

03:39 And it was part of that whole dynamic that was undergoing and in the country. And you know, that had them sure that that shape had a part in shaping who I am today. I have since, you know, worked in a number of places to DC New York and now here in San Diego. And now here in in San Jose and it has been, you know, that I came here by choice. I'd like living in a community where I felt like there is a lot of focus on Innovation on how to make the world a better place. And I feel San Jose really is trying to do that, the Silicon Valley and I have always felt was trying to do that. And so I watch you part of that and it's worked. Well for my family, we've been here. Are you raised had our kids here and raise them and now got one going to college at UC Berkeley. And, and

04:39 The one who's a, junior in high school and we'll see where she ends up. And we're just at this point,, not quite empty nesters yet, but we're getting very close to that are getting very very close to that. And so, yeah, just been very involved. In community. I had my passion. My hobbies are being involved in the community, you know, various organizations nonprofit. It's very involved in my congregation. Those are things that really kind of 2, find me.

05:14 Very cool. Why are you here? I guess it was one of the questions that if I do decide to do this, so I have been

05:24 Deeply distraught by.

05:29 Do you divide the teams we going on right now? That I don't I don't remember there being.

05:36 Such a awful, divide with people are no longer see themselves as fellow Americans, but as enemies and and it just really worries me for the future of my kids. I really am I, you know, I look out there and I see people who don't see me as another citizen, but as someone who is on, on an opposing side of something and I am really worried. I'm concerned about where that is. I don't, I don't see eye feels like it's been getting worse and worse where we are just being pulled apart, on everything on anything. From whether it's just trivial things, Sports Medicine, more important things Healthcare, you know, it just seemed like everything there is no common understanding,.

06:38 Is common sense of like coming together around anything at all and distresses me a lot, and I think we have the country have so much going for as we seem to have lost our way.

06:56 I can empathize with that a lot. That's a lot of the same reasons why I'm on here. I think to a certain extent were a product of the information we take in, right? We would go to our individual little Corners to get our information of what's going on our news, right? And I know that when I go to my right wing places away and two smacks, Fox Nation in those things that they are slanted in the whole purpose of that is to win power, right? And then twist it and I'm worried that the other side is doing the same thing and growing further apart. And when I heard the advertisement for one small step, I'm like, you know, I want to delete her and I want to learn how to listen better and I think this is where it starts as people getting together.

07:46 I always tell people what you don't want, my two sons are very liberal minded, but I guarantee you I could sit in a room with them and you pick any problem. We could reach Common Ground, you know, and I think that's where it's going to start with a people's, not very much, just trust the government in the information. They put out because depending on where you get your information that may not be true, you know, so and that's on both sides, of course, so that's why I wanted to get on here is to be an example and be willing to listen and and have an open mind. Yeah. Well, I should as long as well. I mean, I think

08:27 We see me the place where the attaining power.

08:32 It seems to be the objective as opposed to solving problems. Absolutely. And Something's Gotta change on that. When we can have this continuous set of when people have the power, they don't seem to be using it for anything other than to advance their own.

08:53 Their own egos their own Celebrity Status their own financial status. There's no sense of how is this going to help improve my children or my children's children. I was raised my hand in the Jewish tradition year. It's always about how do you leave the world? A better place than where you came into it, and I'm really worried. I'm not going to help do that.

09:18 Yeah, I hear you.

09:21 Yeah, but I honestly don't know. I mean, I mean I think

09:28 So, I mean like I try very hard to try to listen to different media as well. You mentioned in some of the media stuff and I

09:40 It's, it's amazing. Like it's just I don't know where I often question where to get my information and how do I

09:51 I mean, you mentioned that you have a lot of distrust of government as wondering cuz I work, I work in government. I work in local government. I was curious.

10:02 Do you trust your local city?

10:06 Since I've moved downtown to Kansas City, feel like the mayor of Kansas City, quit and Lucas is following the, the federal government on a lot of issues and not thinking on his own and thinking about Kansas City at their unique issues.

10:27 So more so than the federal government for sure, but still listening to it with a grain of salt, right? And make my own conclusions because I just don't know what their incentive is or what their intentions are by the information they put out, right? I mean, I also, I'm just a new board member for our condo here. I'm starting into politics myself, and I see where you're on, a lot of boards and stutter and like, to pick your brain on that. You bet. It's unique living in a big city because I would probably, I mean, it's early. Now. It's only April and have been there for months, but I would say I'm probably the only conservative member on the board and a lot of them were or soundboarding off each other, you know, and, and I just, I guess I just want to inject another point of view and and listen to

11:23 Yeah, it's a really good place to diving. I'm also on the board of my homeowner's association, which is a townhouse was 12 unit, townhouse complex here, in in San Jose. And, you know, if there's no liberal or conservative way to fix the gutters, to get fixed and, like, we've been dealing like the properties. All the stuff about 40 years old now, and for the past,

11:55 Six or seven years. The board has been relentlessly saying, look the it's not been repaved in the entire time. We've lived here. It's really really bad news and we can say we got in order to pay in order to fix this. We got a raise to dues and people like I don't want to let you know and we get it's okay. We kept that this past year. They approved it. If I said, yeah, you're right. It's getting so bad. You know, you're at the alligators were coming after everybody, I think so, but there's not it's not a. I mean it's sort of like people coming together and talking about. It's not like that. I mean, you shouldn't, is it, should I do for me? That's it. Like, I don't like telling people that are involved. I don't actually know what their party affiliation. What they even their politics are me. Some of that, like, one of the guys that used to be living with us, one of the complex, you know, I know he was in the military, it was at the flag out, but I didn't know.

12:55 I mean you wish it was all about like, okay, how do we how do we get the same way? You know, if only the federal government? The same approach would probably get a lot more done. I would think I see Kevin put a question up there. I'll start first memory of politics and I can go first. They're mine was when I was a kid asking my mother and father, because, you know, you hear about the politics and stuff. So what's what's the difference between Democrats and Republicans in? My mom told me at the time, that well, Democrats are for the poor and Republicans are for the rich. And so that was my early formation. I guess while I'm Democrat, right? And I went to the University of Iowa, but it's a very liberal colleges. Most are I think in my opinion but and one day I heard Rush Limbaugh on the radio, and I thought well,

13:55 I heard he's a real pig. So I'm going to give him some time, just to find out what this guy is all about. And I understand that a lot of people hate him and he does poke the bear a lot and and try to do or did lots of things like that. But there were moments where he went into the greatness of the country in the Constitution than his love for the country, that really switch me to the conservative party, and I'm still that way today. I mean, I love the country and I think it's one of the greatest please on hers, and I think we need to preserve it.

14:33 X-ray Rush Limbaugh's. He he he got his start in California growing up that really struck me. You know? One was just growing up in Orange County. We had meant. I remember and I want to say it must have been. I think it was 1976. I could have been 1980 bow. I think it was 76. I member Ron Reagan coming to Grand Valley, where I grew up and that was a big deal. And and I remember those, you know, that they're just a lot of people I knew it was like, when he was elected president, they would dead. I was going to somebody's house, where my friends, who is a scout of all the scouts with me. And on the fridge was a day ahead of us are Catholic that picture of the Pope and the picture of Ronald Reagan that. Debt.

15:24 Always left a lasting memory. Internal memory had political moment was, when I was very young. We would go to Los Angeles so that we could get some Jewish soul food so you can get in Orange County and we are walking the street to get to the restaurant. Something and a guy other was a gentleman who was running for re-election for mayor for the city of Los Angeles, mayor, Tom Bradley and what struck me was it was just a tiny was at just that one moment.

16:05 But I think it was probably one of the first African Americans had met.

16:09 And at the time I was probably in my maybe 11 or 12 and it just it always stuck with me. Like, I'm looking back. Like wow, how was it that? I got that for my life and really had not seen other people did not, you know, I'm that whole experience and and it and it caused me to really rethink things and go. Okay. Maybe I need to be looking a little beyond that, I didn't and, and, and do my own involvement of Jewish Community. Got much more involved in civil rights issues. And even at one point serves on the board of the n-double-acp say really, I really believe in everybody being treated, having civil rights for all, and every day being treated the same. And it just so important to me.

16:54 Very cool. Listen to bring it up. I have a question and it's been on my mind and that's what you do race relations, you know, right now, it's it seems to me and be completely incorrect, but I truly believe most people are not prejudiced and I think our federal government is pumping that up and using it as a tool. And I think if you talk to most Americans walking around regardless of what persuasion they are there, not Prejudice at all. I know I'm not you know, and it just hurts my soul to see all the stuff that's going on in today's society.

17:33 Yeah, I think that we have.

17:37 I think we I think it's so hot. I think it would like that the frog in the water. That's that's when they turn up the heat. You don't know. I think we're surrounded by this in a culture that says

17:53 Intrinsically, be afraid of certain people, and I think,

18:00 You, and I can walk Street and we don't have that same Dynamic. I was talking to my daughter about this. She was selling my house, that a lot of women are very uncomfortable with somebody coming up from behind them and are fearful that, I don't know. I've never never had those concerns as a white guy, and I think it as a side we got to figure out. How do we, how do we break that down? So that people that we don't approach each other, with some free free, understanding of who they are before, we even met them or talk to them and I think, yeah, that and so yeah, I mean, I don't I mean that that's the thing that I look at and gets me kind of like, okay, how do we do that? I'm sure.

18:58 Yeah, it's hard to legislate feeling she know I mean, you just got to be a good person or so and and listen and and take that I mean, I guess what I want to ask you David is is the my role or my opinion of the government that's in power. Now, Stokes that fire unnecessarily to, I don't know why to rile people up, you know, I think it's counterproductive and I think it's a mistake because they should put the microphone in the face of a lot of. I know it doesn't sell ourselves. Right and they will be afraid and blocked her there or the whoever they are for for guidance Pizza. I think it would get some more normal American speaking to the issue that it's not as bad. It's getting worse by their leadership, you know.

19:58 I know I mean it so I look at this. Is there trying to change policies? So I can my own County, you know, Progressive liberal, whatever you want to call it Silicon Valley, you know, we've got large parts of our community that have not gotten back to Nations that wanted. It did not had a lot of the things that are needed that you know, my family, I've gotten. And I think the federal government is saying he knows everybody. Hey, you know, we've got a we got to do a better job because somehow there is a much higher rate of people who don't look like you and I who are not getting the same level services and they're saying that's wrong and I think you I mean it would seem to me that I mean,

20:47 I think everybody a degree, if somebody wants to get a vaccine that shouldn't it should be race gender. Neutral me, who can't, you know, he has to be, you know, you're over age. 16, just be able to get it and should be readily easily gettable. But for some folks, you know, if they don't have a car or if they're, they don't have the ability, you know, the government has to do, can't just say it's here. Sort of like, you can't start to people on a running. Race is one of the one with one of them is hobbled, you know, and you got to do something, say it will what are we going to do about? The one has hobbled, you know, and I feel like there's some of that Dynamic that I think our current government is trying to do, you know, is it perfectly done? Is it you know there people you know who are trying to bring out the worst elements. Oh, yeah. For sure for sure.

21:39 Let me say to, I wanted to just say I'm sorry for the loss of your brother. You know, I can empathize with that extraordinary. I am very, very, very, very painful, very, very painful as you also get your brother and parents pass in a car accident or something, or some sort of it. Cuz I looked at the age and I was like, wow, they all wanted. Yeah. I lost my brother. When I was fifteen thousand of a blood clot. She had a hip replacement surgery. She was 60, and it shook lose, and then a few years later, and all three of my dad had a heart attack. So I was in my immediate family was gone. So that's why I value my fruit family. So much, you know.

22:34 I think a lot of people don't realize how important your family is to you and, you know, and how much time you should spend with almond and really work at it, cuz it's precious, right? I am 100% beong. I lose my brother's here, brought that home. And, and, and it was a difficult loss. It was, it was, it was, it was a casualty of covid in the sense that not from the disease Batu to the Eagan, the economy impact on him and choices. He decided to make their day painful, very, very painful for everybody involved. She got four kids. And, you know, I too lost my parents relatively early on my mom was out of the picture. When I was in my attic. I was 12 and my dad was I was

23:34 Does get married and then passed a few weeks later. So we're not going to like it. I'm at the wedding and he know he knew my wife which was a real treat and glide yet. But it is definitely the thing that has, you know, the family's it's very important does. You know, if people want to live their lives and that provides their families and enjoy their families and and and not feel like somebody's hindering them or holding the back and and I just feel like right now in this moment where there is no understanding of like, you know, how is it like I live in a community, you know.

24:17 Where I mean, it's predominantly white, you know, we're in this condition Area Community, and on one side of the creek. It's overwhelmingly, you know, white and wealthy and we're on the other side of the creek and it's less. So, you know, and

24:35 And people don't see like,

24:39 All that has happened over many years and then people who have gotten the wealth.

24:46 Colon do it just makes sense. But there's no opportunities for other people to get it. And, and it seems, it just seems a lot of that is, you know, along racial lines in a long time. And I just just doesn't make any sense to me. Why? I mean, we have this aspirational goal that everybody that's here should have equal ability to vote equal ability to participate to to live their lives as they wish and yet and we saw, you know, some people can't walk down the street with you know, where drive a car without worrying about it and get pulled over. And you know, I mean, that's just not me. I never have to worry about it. I mean, I don't know about you but I've rarely been pulled over by a cop. I have been and, you know, it's like I never never ever worried about. Like, okay, how do I, what do I do? If my hands would I do, you know, they never incurred me. That's not right, to worry about that.

25:45 Siri, what do you think? I do agree with that. You know, I mean, I can empathize with that wholeheartedly but you know, I think the American system, if you work hard and you you know, our Relentless you can be successful regardless of what your skin color is. I mean, I don't see pigment in the skin is being any other than that, there's a small group of people that are

26:13 Brutal and Prejudiced, and we should take care of them and get them out of the picture. Once you show your that way. We need to handle that as far as the fear and everything. I mean, from my point of view.

26:27 Get out there. The police defunding the police and going after the police department or being Prejudice systemic racism. And I just don't see it's there. I mean, there's black policeman to that are very, you know, good people and the fact that there was twelve murders of black people by police officers and they grabbed every single one of them and put it in your face on the news over and over and over is not good for the created Stokes bad feelings and and worst racial relations, then then there really is, no, I wish it wasn't there, but unfortunately, I'm sure there is instances of it and I would be off of work fixing it. But I don't think the way we're going right now is in the direction of fixing it. And now it's, it's separating us more.

27:24 But if it's not our Consciousness, how are we ever going to get changes it mean, if people aren't cuz like, I don't know that the policies are going to change and let people are really conscious of them and are calling for change.

27:40 Yeah, I hear that. But which what what way do you call for that change? I mean, allowing protests and destruction of property and propping up 12 instances of police brutality. And selling that is systemic is not the way to go about it, in my opinion and most of us know, in my heart. There's not a shred of racism, and I know a lot of my friends are not the same way that doesn't solve the problem that you speak of that over a years that the other side of the river black and one side of the rivers white, but I think the way they're handling it now and propping that up on the news and getting each other fighting with each other, is not not our best path.

28:27 Yeah, no, I I I would agree. I mean, what was your, what was your take? When things are really brought things to a head? For me, was what happened in January with the attack on the capital? I mean, High key. I can't even it's hard for me to square that with everything. I know about a man. I used to work in the capital. Yeah,. It was like this Revere place to me was you know, and it's like it's and yet there's all these folks who look more like me than not storming the place in committing violent tonight and and I just sent and it just seemed like they were treated very differently. Then then, you know, some of the some of the stuff we see out there, you know, that you mention the 12 problem after you know, who are been killed murdered by the police. Sure. I did. It seems like I don't

29:27 To seem very different and how people are treated.

29:30 Yeah, I agree. I mean I assume were probably disagree here but the capital I had many friends that were there and I mean, obviously that's the side I come from in the people. I hang with and when you have a hundred thousand people that are mostly or whatever number was there. I have some, a different reports gas fake news, right? You don't know. But there was a small group of people and I don't know who they were that decided to act violently. And, you know, I was, I started socialism in college when you're in a group atmosphere, you just follow and if you look, I'm sure on all my conservative websites, they're showing all the peaceful stuff and and the liberal ones and see it and they're showing all the violent stuff. But I think I see people walking in in the single file in between ropes going. Wow, we're going into the capital now, and that's very stupid and naive of them to not have the the understanding of the Hallowed Ground.

30:30 But the violence that actually took place and and the destruction was in my opinion, minimal compared to what's going on in the, in the ATS. And, you know, I don't mean to downplay it, any by any stretch of me. And if you have trespassed on the capitol, you should be brought to justice for it. It's, it's against the law but that brings up. Another thing of point that I want to bring up that woman who shot the black kid the other day, right? But they say it was a taser right now. Is that happens? We know that woman's name. We know how long she's worked where she lives. There's people that go to her house right in the capital. There was a security guard that shot a trump supporter in in the face and killed her. We still don't know what that person's name is. We don't know if there's card to file one of the problems I have.

31:30 Is equal justice under the law and the end as a conservative, I really feel. You know, that we don't get that. You know, we don't I mean if there's Trump supporters that got put in prison and there's a left-wing people that have been in power in the passet and clearly committed some errors and we don't even have the opportunity to question that, you know, it's just shut up and take it, you know, so it's frustrating from my point of view, from our side.

32:05 Yeah, I mean I don't I mean, I guess if the first the Tom welling's you you mention side. Are we on the same side? When I say side? I said, okay, I know. But I mean, I mean, aren't we? I mean it, it's it's not us and them. It's all right. I mean, yeah, I mean I ate just I mean I

32:30 I understand what you're saying. You know, you've got, I think there's this just there. They're angry how they've been treated for so long and

32:49 And I think that there's, I mean, the sum of the divine's on the capital, which is, you know, I mean, it was going against the people who have left it and it just seems like complete. I'm using those Beyond absurd couldn't believe their goal was to to try to bite force, you know, keep Trump as president when he was not the duly elected president.

33:23 I'm sorry. I didn't mean to the belief and I have the belief to that the election was stolen from us.

33:33 I really believe that. What would what evidence would you need to demonstrate? I mean, damn polite. I think I was like in Georgia where the election process is controlled by the Republicans.

33:52 Where you had Trump lost, but other Republicans won the Democrats were so damn smart. Why wouldn't they fix the election to the Democrats win the House Seats, or the state legislators or the US Senate? I mean,

34:11 I didn't make any sense to me how you can have. I mean, that's a pretty pretty skillful work by the Democrats. We're not that good. Well, she comes down to the information. Like I said before the the information you absorb crates who you are, right? And I see anybody any talk show, conservative or republican, right. Now. Other than that, extreme Fringe. If you bring up the Dominion voting machines, it's not allowed. You won't be invited back. You can't talk about.

34:44 It to me, Common Sense, would say, if there's this large amount of Americans, that feel this way. And you're innocent, then let's investigate. Let's, let's give them their due process. Let's not take the chips out of the mini voting machines. Let's not disregard the video of people taking suitcases of ballast. I'm sure you've seen that stuff. When we see that stuff. It just puts doubt in your mind, plus the fact that there's just the numbers, right? If you, if you go on your study, the numbers, I can't believe Joe, Biden got millions more votes than Barack Obama, you know, I mean, just a little paper cuts, right? If you add them all up. It just does it just doesn't pass the smell test to me and the fact that they won't do their due diligence. It's just shut up and accept it that they won't investigate it. It's that's why all the people are at the Capitol because her, like, we want you to investigate and prove it to us.

35:44 But they, but they didn't Estacada the Republican Secretary of State and didn't multiple investigations of it. And it seems like it would never be a sufficient amount of evidence that would convince somebody because the media ecosystem is so much. So so, so complete the bubble. So complete, that that you can't get out and see, like, I mean, like it, it's, it's her like,

36:18 I feel like, you know, like in my in my townhouse.

36:22 If the gutters continue did not work and there were other people saying, how they work, just fine at some point. You say there's water there. The gutters are not working at. And how do you know? It's so like we're stuck in the situation, where our eyes were, we're not relying upon other people's eyes to tell us, what's true. And what's not true? And we're not trying to figure out like, okay. What what makes the most sense here, you know? Doesn't I mean, like I said, I mean like why would, why would people rig the Dominion system? But only for one person and somehow figure out how to do that. And not, then ring it for some clothes, Congressional races and some other things like that, it just, it mean to EE. It sort of like that. That makes sense. I mean, I mean, I can't even is like, I understand people want to believe that, but I don't understand.

37:21 It has its counter, it extremely counterintuitive to me.

37:27 Yeah, and I understand that and I didn't expect to agree on the subject by any separate conclusions. There is one thing you said in there though. Is that that you brought up the media? And I think that the media is in the tank. I'm in there basically a branch of the democratic party. And I mean, if you go through MSNBC in the CNN, and ABC, CBS NBC doesn't matter which one you turn on, they're going to tell the same story in lockstep. And one of the things that formed an opinion with me that Rush Limbaugh you say is he would put montages together, you know, and he would say this is all these media outlets and here they use the word gravitas, right? It's not something that just naturally comes to somebody. So, in my mind, he proved the

38:27 The effect that they're all in the tank and they're not doing their jobs anymore of the investigation. So I wouldn't point to them as somebody that's going to come investigate and election fraud. If it was actually there because they don't want to find it right, there is no investigation.

38:46 I mean, I I, I

38:52 I'm not sure. I mean, I agree with you that the media is, is, is there problems with the media but I'm having. I mean, I've talked to reporters if they don't, they don't come out at from knows, why, I know that we're going to meet at. Don't come at it from that perspective, of like, why can't talk about this because then, you know, it's not liberal enough. I mean if it doesn't mean the reporters, I mean,

39:19 I understand about the talking for what you're saying and they're certainly, you know, people would it be by 9 or or, or McConnell and his folks. Talking voice to try to push out, of course, map, but, but I think it did. You know, there are if we don't have some common sense, if we don't have some, some basic, Mark of of the world, I love the way, we look at this country me, like it's sort of, like, what if back in 1969, there was a whole news broadcast system, that said, no. Apollo. We never did land on the moon, you know, and and it's like suddenly we went out MET ecosystem, where one side said we landed on the moon, it is sad since we didn't land on the moon and you know, what, neither you nor I would ever really know for sure. That's, that's very true.

40:19 And I feel like that's kind of where we're at. Like we're like we look at a situation and

40:26 How do you, how do we break out of that? So that we can have a common back then? We had a common understanding. Yes, people landed on the moon, you know, Neil Armstrong and and and crew were there and then you keep it in. And I believe that, you know.

40:44 I mean, but I feel like we're now in this point where you know, it's like well, my media says they didn't land and your me just as they did land and they're both wrong. And at some point you have to say then back to the gutters. The gutters are Elite guard are leaking and not working and I'm worried that our country that are gutters are not working and it's going to get a lot worse and was going to fall apart because we're not coming to some like like, okay. This is what it is.

41:17 I think a big piece of that and I absolutely hear what you're saying is we need to hold the media accountable to be the media because it's that's a big part of Us coming together. And when they stopped me in the media on both sides, we start learning the information and it's so difficult to find truth nowadays, you know, I mean,

41:38 I believe the election was stolen. I know that I'm that's my beliefs and I go down those Rascals and I start trying to sort of which are right-wing conspiracy theories, which are actual facts and try to use my common sense to navigate through it. If we had a media that really believed in their jobs, on both sides. I think, you know conversations like this would happen. You know, I think what we're stuck in is we we moved away from talking about beliefs. I believe in free enterprise capitalism, you know, the exchange of goods, you know, how we do that as opposed to

42:22 Why the world is flat or not?

42:25 Any. And why would you having this this heated debate about where the world is flat or not? Our gutters are not working.

42:33 Ryan. And I mean that more generally, you know what? I mean. I know what you're saying. No, and and I really are the countries are figuring this out and there's different Zip by us, and I'm really worried that I'm going to leave a really were situations. My two kids that depresses me to no end and I know that we can't. I can't get things better. Unless folks like you.

43:01 And I figure out a way to focus on the solutions as opposed to trying to get. If we don't have a common understanding of the problem. It's very hard to even begin to think about that and that's like where we're at. Yeah, I would love to tackle one subject at the time with you and just getting deaf cuz I think you're a super intelligent guy. And I love your demeanor. I'm getting a lot more out of tonight that I thought I was going to get it. And you know what? I mean, it's good. You listen really well and articulate and I appreciate the time you've taken, and I think it's been productive. I agree. I really enjoyed it. I I I really have enjoyed it cuz I don't I don't have an option to have a candid.

43:53 How cool exchange with someone like yourself, who's I think in it for trying to figure out the same same type of thing, you know, and you know, loves our country wants to see in a better place and how do we move it there? So, I totally agree you mentioned from time to time. You come out to Sunnyvale, which is my next door to us. I'd invite you to come over and have dinner with my family and I had any time I'd love that. I would, I would really dry, don't know how we exchanged that information and maybe that's something we can do when we wrap up here, but I would, you know it, I would surely welcome that. I will tell you. My rest of my family is probably a little more liberal than I am. How about about about balance it out. Probably felt like that. It's not like that, but I will.

44:53 If you liberals to write the best thing is always been you break some bread. And we do there's a place around here to get some good barbecue. So you won't feel too alone. Are the Kansas City, supposed to be known for that. But I think somehow we got to have more of these type of people that more the conversation and then focus on a very specific thing, you know, because like I said, I'm going back to Homeowner Association. There ain't is not a liberal or a conservative way to keep that keep the association running, you know, fiscally sound and making sure the repairs get done and you know, making sure everybody gets along and then yelling at each other. Well, if we do get to exchange information, don't ever drive through the Midwest without. All right. I want to stop and buy in. The same invitation is extended to you and your family as well. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very, very much me.