Parastou Youssefi and Fariborz Massoudian

[00:01] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: My name is Fariborz Masoodian. I'm 58 years old. Today's date is April 10, 2021. I live in Dallas, Texas. I will be talking with Paris to Youssefi We are fellow students and volunteers at MTO Shah Mahsoudi School of Islamic Sufism.

[00:22] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Hello, My name is Parastou Youssefi I am 40 years old. Today's date is Saturday, April 10, 2021. I live in Oakland, California. The name of my conversation partner is Fariborz Massoudian We are both students and volunteers at the MTO School of Islamic Sufism.

[00:46] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: To share more about myself, I was born in Iran and migrated to the US at age 15. So I've actually lived in the US for three quarters of my life. But my accent is still catching up. I'm an engineer and engineering manager by profession. I'm married and have a 22 year old daughter who is also a student at MTO.

[01:12] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: I was born and raised in California. I work in philanthropy and in international development. Currently a Senior Program Officer with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I am married with a new baby, a baby boy named Yusuf. So Barry Borz, I'm excited to talk to you and get to know you and your story a little bit better and to learn about your path to Sufism. I'm curious when and how you first came across MTO.

[01:49] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Yeah, I first heard about MTO in the early 90s. Two of my colleagues who were also friends had just started attending MTO classes and I could see that they are more focused. I could see that they are more organized. There was also a newfound gentleness in their interactions with others. I obviously had a positive experience with people that are attending the school, but I honestly had no interest in attending the school at the time. I was working full time in management. I was also working on my MBA on this side and I had my goals all set in life and I had no interest in anything else. My plans were to climb the corporate ladder until a Global 500 company would offer me their top position. That's what I was working on at the time. And working full time and attending a rigorous graduate program can make you delusional.

[02:58] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: The state of my mind, you know, I can certainly relate to that. I think I also can be delusional at times when it comes to career and focusing on life goals. I'm curious if your life plan worked out the way that you expected it to.

[03:18] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Definitely not as you would expect. Late 93 I finally got my MBA and I received a promotion at Borg. And I just felt invincible. And lately I've been thinking what was going through my mind at the time. I've been really thinking hard about that, but I can't remember anything. Did I feel like. Did I think that my material life would just continue forever, Life would just continue going my way? But again, I just can't remember anything that was going through my mind at the time. So I'm concluding that when one is young, you're so busy, you're so focused on these goals that you set for yourself that you don't even think about why you're here on this Earth, what is the purpose of life on this Earth. And that was just what I was going through at the time. It was just being focused on my goals and not thinking about anything else.

[04:21] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: You know, I think you're probably right about the time issue. I think I'm maybe one generation younger than you, and there is, you know, definitely this feeling that time is never ending or with the right, you know, I don't know, planning an organization, nothing bad will happen. I'm curious. Did you grow up talking about some of these bigger topics in life, in your family or household? Did you grow up in a particularly religious or spiritual household?

[04:51] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Actually, my immediate family and even my extended family were what you would call anti religion. My father especially had bad experiences with organized religion, and he saw religion as a way to control the masses. And he generally advised me to stay away from religion. And it was my obviously mode of thinking as well.

[05:22] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Yeah, I can certainly relate. I have some extended family members or friends who also have quite a bit of, I would say, suspicion or skepticism as well. So I'm curious, what changed your mind?

[05:38] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: So later that year, after I got my degree and my promotion, my first young wife, she was only 32 at the time she was diagnosed with advanced cancer, as the expression goes, that brought me back down to Earth. I started questioning the reason for life. I started questioning creation. I questioned why I was working so hard for something so temporary. I discussed these questions with my friends that were attending MTO sessions, and I heard points of views that I hadn't heard before. There was a sound logic to their answers. I didn't hear their customary religious dogma. They also didn't claim to know all the answers. They said that they were also searching for some of the same answers. So I asked if I could attend an MTO class, an MTO session, and they said yes. I also asked if their teacher would be open to talking to me about my questions. I was in desperate need of someone who could help me make sense out of my situation. So they invited me to write a letter to professor Nader angel, and I was blessed with being in his presence in that first session. He received my wife and me with a generosity and kindness that I had never experienced before.

[07:05] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Tell me more about that first meeting. What kind of. What answers did you hear to your questions that maybe you hadn't heard before?

[07:15] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Well, what I heard that first night was completely different from what I expected. I maybe expected him to talk to me about faith and theology, but instead, Professor Nader Angler took a genuine interest in our problem. He started talking about them in a very logical and scientific way. Amazingly, there was still a beautiful simplicity to the concepts. I've learned over the years that if someone truly knows the topic, they can convey it in a manner that's simple to understand. Unfortunately, we got distracted the various treatment options and I couldn't attend sessions for more than a year. I lost my first wife a year and a half later. That tragedy made me very curious about death. At that point, I started attending mto classes again. I learned a refreshing point of view on death through the teachings of professor Noether Angel. I learned that death is an evolutionary and developmental stage of being. I learned that death is not an end, but a beginning. In one of his lectures, he eloquently explained that the moment I was born into this world, I died in my mother's womb. And these death and births would continue until there is no more room for development or growth.

[08:42] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Wow. That's such a beautiful and powerful and very peaceful concept of death. You know, I'm just thinking with so much death and suffering this past year because of COVID you know, I'm sure your story and this unique definition of death must really resonate for many as well. And, you know, knowing what I know of the mto community, I'm sure the generosity and kindness that you experienced was also really helpful for you during that difficult time.

[09:17] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Absolutely. I honestly don't think I would have survived it all had it not been for the teachings and kindness of our teacher, Professor Nader Angel. How about you, Paris? What was your path to Sufism and mto?

[09:30] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Yeah, so unlike you, Fariborz, I actually grew up with Sufism. My parents are both students, and so I certainly also experience that generosity and kindness that you describe. But I wouldn't say that I really learned the teachings. You know, I was. I was so focused on my life checklist. You know, I remember being a teenager and thinking, I can't wait to like get out of this house and travel the world and pursue my studies and get an advanced degree, start my career, change the world, get married, have kids, buy nice things and probably in that order too. And you know, I did pretty well against my list. I achieved quite a of those goals. But I let those achievements define me and you know, there's nothing wrong in the pursuit of those goals. But for me it was a problem when I let those achievements define who I was. And so when a number of things that I had carefully planned out, you know, the right job, the right relationship didn't work out, I really lost myself. I began to experience anxiety and depression and it was a difficult time for me. I know that sounds so trivial compared to the loss that you experienced and the loss that so many have experienced this past year due to Covid. But you know, so anyway, so even though you grew up with Sufism and didn't grow up with Sufism and I did, it's interesting, we kind of both ended up at the same place in a way.

[11:19] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Yeah, we traveled different paths but came to the same realization. It's very interesting.

[11:24] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Yeah. You know, I, when I reflect back, I think I heard, you know, some of the teachings of Sufism, but I didn't really listen. I think I just attended classes growing up because either I was expected to or to see my many friends at mto, but I didn't really kind of apply them to my everyday life. But you know, when I did hit that low, I knew of a place that I could go back to to kind of rediscover myself, if you will. And actually our teacher, Professor Nader Anwa, you know, he once posed a set of question in his book titled Sufism that really got me thinking. And he asked, and I'm going to quote this, so don't mess it up. If there were only one in the world, and that one were you, what would your name be? Who would you be? Would you hate? Would you love? And I really reflected on those questions and I felt like no matter what I came up with, I kept falling short. You know, my name, Parastu was given to me by my parents. I had no say in that. My Ivy League school degrees, that's not me. I was just very good at school. I love to dance, read and discuss politics, explore new places, but those are my hobbies. I wouldn't say that's who I am. I'm a woman, I'm an Iranian American. These are these external labels. I kept coming up short and I felt very lost and Alone. And so I set out to find some answers. And it was actually this three day MTO meditation retreat that really was life changing for me. And that's kind of when things started to turn around. It was three days dedicated completely to meditation Tamarkuz, which is a concentration method unique to mto. And you know, let me just paint a picture. Imagine, you know, the setting in Northern California. Beautiful, tall green trees, super quiet, you know, sunshine, just beautiful space. And it was just three days of focusing on, you know, meditation and self discovery. And I began to experience these moments of tranquility and joy that I hadn't experienced in a really long time. And I even started to feel like myself again, which I thought was so weird because in a way because I didn't know who I was, but something felt very familiar and I just remember at the time just felt really good and, you know, so I just wanted to know more. Leaving that retreat, how. What is the source of tranquility and joy? How can I access it whenever I want, you know?

[14:32] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Right. It's so great to have three days just to focus on yourself and in your spiritual health. So what did you learn at the retreat?

[14:41] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Yeah, absolutely. It was a total luxury to have that time. So, you know, what I learned is that MTO teaches actually very practical Sufism. It's not meant just for history books or books of poetry like Rumi. It really is meant to be practiced or experienced. And what I learned is that at MTO it teaches that there are eight principles. And when these are in practice together and under the guidance of a teacher, you can access the source anytime you want that resides in each of us. And that source is my identity, not my achievements or material things. And I'll give you an example. So one of those principles is chedmat, or service. And to me that means service to community, to others, but also to self. Right? Because when we are in service, we get back way more than we give. And service also starts in our centers, our MTO centers. And you know, growing up, I didn't really think much of this. You know, we all just took turns keeping our centers clean and tidy, making and serving refreshments at the end of classes. Didn't really think much of it, but if I can share, like just a short story, you know, when I was experiencing severe anxiety, one of the ways that that physically manifested was that my hands would tremble really badly. I mean, I remember trying to cook myself breakfast and I couldn't even grasp the handle of a saucepan to fry an egg and then kind of fast forward, I don't know, a year and a half, two years. And I, you know, found myself serving these trays, these heavy trays of hot tea. Just, you know, these trays, like imagine 20 glass glasses full of hot tea with steam coming out of them.

[16:53] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: I've been there.

[16:54] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Yeah, exactly, you've been there. And trust me, that moment was not lost on me. It was such a profound teaching moment for me that even such a small, basic, seemingly small and basic act of service was really about compassion and love. And it's definitely a moment that I'll never forget. But you know, overall there's. There's such a strong ethos of volunteering and service at mto because really it's a continuous reminder and I would say discipline, really, to stay true to that love and compassion in our hearts that Sufism tries to help cultivate. And I know you're all suited, super active in Texas as well. So I'm curious, Fibors, how has service shown up for you as an important practice?

[17:50] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Right, so as you said, in service, we just get so much more back than we give. And in fact, we are constantly reminded to express gratitude to the ones who are receiving the service. As you know, MTU has a long history of charitable activities. Dallas is no exception. But this recent response to COVID 19 has just been beyond my imagination. Under Professor Nader's Anglo's guidance, students came together from across the globe to build personal protective equipment, PPE for the local communities. Because, as you remember, there was a real need for PPE for medical staff at the beginning of the pandemic. And there was a shortage. That's right, yeah. There was a shortage of food. So we were distributing food to families in need. And even our fellow students who practice medicine and psychotherapy came up with these, with this series, an online series called coping with COVID 19 and the Tamarkos and Sufi meditation, or Sufi meditation classes that we both referred to earlier. Those were being offered online in 11 languages, actually. Yeah. All of this was done, of course, with no charge to the public. And it was all online. As I said in Dallas, we've been blessed to have many opportunities to serve the community too. And we have always looked for those in the community that are underserved. And we have learned to listen to the needs of the community first and then offer up service. It's not just going out there and say, this is a service I want to offer. We need to understand what is it that they need. An example from a few years ago in Dallas, in our Dallas center was this needs closet at a local high school. So our center in Dallas is actually in an affluent area. So the high school which is right next to us, is also in that affluent area. And you expect students that are attending this school to be well off, but they found out from the principal of the school that there are financially challenged students that are attending the school and they can't afford basic hygiene items and they can't even afford warm clothing. And you know, Texas is known as a hot place, but Dallas and North Texas gets really cold in winter, so students really need jackets. And once we found out about this need, honestly, the first thought that went through my mind was that what if my daughter was going to school and she didn't have warm clothing or she had clothing that was torn that she felt embarrassed to wear? What if she didn't have basic hygiene items? And I discussed this with our fellow students and they all felt the same way. In Sufism, we believe that we are all one, that we are all branches of a single entity. Your child is my child. There's no difference. And it was amazing to me that the students went out and bought new clothing and they bought new clothing that they would buy for their own kids. This wasn't hand me downs, this wasn't stuff that they were about to throw out. And they bought hygiene items as well. And with the permission of the school, we went to the school and fill this needs closet with the clothing, with the warm clothing and the hygiene items. And the school and principal were so appreciative of the donation that they featured us in their newscast.

[21:55] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: That's awesome. To be featured in a school newscast. I love that story. Your focus on first listening to the needs of the community first and then being responsive. I know that seems so logical, but you know, I work in this sector and you would be surprised how often that does not happen. And you know, even beyond listening, that empathy that you talked about, you know, your child is my child. You know, I'm sure the kids in the school are really appreciative of that. I'm curious, you know, just because of this past year with COVID I'm sure you've all had some more many opportunities to serve. And you all had a really bad storm. Winter storm. It was in February, right, In Texas, right?

[22:46] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Yes. Yeah, it was. As I said, it does get cold here. But this past February was just ridiculous. We went down to minus 10 one night and as you heard on national news, we lost power on top of it. And as you said, because of the Pandemic, we had many opportunities to serve the community. There was the building and the distribution of ppe. There was a distribution of food, and there was a lot we were doing in those areas. But the story that stands out for me is an interaction that we had with the homeless population. And I think it's tied to this winter storm that we had. So, as I was mentioning earlier, during the storm, we lost power. And of course, most of the heat in this area is using electricity. And our house in particular, we, I think, had maybe five hours of power in two days. So the house got extremely cold. I remember that my family and I, we had to put on multiple layers of clothing and we had to crawl inside sleeping bags just to keep warm. And that just gave me the slightest glimpse of what the homeless population must endure on a day to day basis. It was nothing compared to their experience. Of course, we had the security of four walls around us. We had a roof over our heads. But it helps us get a glimpse, just a small glimpse into what these folks experience. And that's why I think this interaction that we had with the homeless folks really stood out for me. It was at the beginning of the pandemic. It was, you know, that was March of 2020, and it was still cold. And the homeless shelters started observing social distancing guidelines. So that meant that they could only serve half of the population that they were previously serving. That meant that some of the homeless folks that were being sheltered before now had to sleep outside again and in the cold of March. So the students in Dallas and I decided that we needed to go and make a donation directly with the folks that are outside the shelter, because the folks inside the shelter were at least getting some assistance. And the guys did some research, and they found out that the homeless might need hygiene items. And of course, we wanted to make sure that they got a warm meal. So they worked with the local restaurant and they got him a hot meal. And we packed more than 100 bags with these hygiene items and a hot meal, and we took it directly to the homeless folks that were standing outside the shelter. And we started handing these packages out. As we were doing that, one of the homeless stood up. He took a nail clipper out of the bag, and he said, thank you for giving us this nail clipper just this morning. I was wishing I had one. And that was just such a learning moment for me. I would have never thought that somebody would thank us for a nail clipper. I thought maybe they would thank us for the hot meal, but not for a Nail clipper.

[26:21] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Yeah. I would not have thought of the nail clipper as the first priority as well. I think, you know, just going back to what you were saying, that's why it's just so important to listen and to be responsive and not to make assumptions. You know, I also would never have thought, I didn't even realize that because of social distancing, that the shelters would be operating at half capacity. That's terrible. I mean, it's so great that you all could be of service in that moment. And it's just really underlines, underscores so much difficulty that people have experienced this past year especially. Yeah, that's wonderful.

[27:06] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Yeah. And as I mentioned before, there were many opportunities to serve the community. And one thing that really fueled our, I guess, our desire and helped us set an example, hopefully for the community was that a Texas congressman actually looked up what we were doing in the community. Congressman Matt Shaheen actually recognized the NTO community here in Dallas. And he declared September 4th, the anniversary of the appointment of our teacher, Professor Nader angel, as MTO Day in the state of Texas. And that was just such a joyous occasion for us, not because we were looking for that recognition, but just because it allowed us to be an example in the community for other nonprofits to maybe step in and also help.

[28:07] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: That's wonderful. That's so great that, like you said, it's not done for the recognition, but that's so great that you all were recognized in that way and I think really just points to the scale at which you are all operating on. That's wonderful.

[28:22] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Yeah. So I know that you guys in Northern California are also very active in response to the pandemic. Can you share some of those activities?

[28:32] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Yeah, that's right. Here in the Bay Area, we've also been blessed to have the opportunity to be of service. This past year in particular, we've been able to work with over 55,0 nonprofits, mostly with personal protective equipment, also food as well as school supplies with a lot of the low income students as they were engaging in remote learning. And actually the city of Oakland also recognized MTO for its volunteering efforts and service, which was wonderful of them. You know what's interesting is I actually found out I was pregnant a couple months before the pandemic started. And so it was such a scary time. I feel like we've all kind of gotten, in a way, used to this norm way of being, but right when it had started, it was especially a very scary time. And so I couldn't personally go out and be on the ground the way I wanted to with my fellow volunteers. But I was able to use my professional skill sets and be of service from home. And that's the thing, right? There's all. There's something that all of us can do, whether it's donating our time or our skills to be of service. And, you know, just reflecting on that time, you know, actually my day job is in philanthropy and working with charitable organizations. And so by day I was super focused on, you know, how do we get these diagnostics and therapeutics and vaccines, especially to those in low income country. Right. So this pretty big and lofty undertaking. And then in the evenings and on the weekends, I was volunteering in my own community and I would just kind of reflect on the two, on that micro and that macro. And what I realized is that both are really important. And Sufism teaches that you really need to start at the individual level with me at that micro. I want to read another quote that really helps make the point. Our teacher, Professor Nader Ankha, teaches that we need to, and I quote, commit not to the idea, but to the process of mastering our own minds. And if enough of us do the same, the world will simultaneously change because the world is us. And I really reflected on that and just, you know, going back to the story I shared about my own path to Sufism, you know, I really had to peel away all those titles or seemingly important things, peel away at my ego to get to the core of who I am. You know, that what he says about the process of mastering your own mind, it really is a constant daily effort to put aside your ego and assumptions. And I found out that really value is not in these things or these titles or achievements, but value really is in our hearts and to one another. And MTO's response to Covid just this past year in particular, that service is not just to our communities, but to ourselves in the process, because it cultivates that compassion and love. And, you know, if enough of us do the same, we really can change the world, you know, as cliche as it might sound.

[32:17] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: And yeah, that's what I really appreciate about entyosivism. It's meant to be practice. I think you referred to it earlier. It's not in the books, it's not poetry. Those are nice background items, but we actually learn through practice and we learn so much through service, or khidmat, the term that we use in Sufism, as you mentioned earlier. And there are so many layers of learning in service.

[32:48] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Yeah. Tell me more about that, because I know about one or two of those layers and meanings. But you said many layers, so I'd love to learn more.

[32:58] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Yeah. When we perform a service, you're performing a selfless act. So the customer definition of selflessness is that you think about others before you think of yourself. Of course, having a day job in philanthropy, you know that people don't always act selflessly in philanthropy. In Sufism, we take it a step further. And when we were talking about selflessness, our goal is to take the self or the ego out of the way. Out of the way of what? Out of the way of that wisdom that's within each and every one of us, every human being. Of course, that's easier said than done. And as you said, we look for more opportunities to serve, because the more we serve, the more we learn about aspects of our egos that are getting in our way, that are covering up that source of wisdom and tranquility that's within each and every one of us. And we believe that once that self, that ego, is out of the way, the only thing that remains is divine wisdom. That wisdom is what we need to follow to evolve as human beings. Professor Nader Angka teaches that following others is never the answer. He reminds us that we shouldn't follow him or anyone else. All that we need to do is search for that divine wisdom that's within us. And if you're able to do that, then there are no doubts in the answers that we get. And that source of wisdom is permanently ours.

[34:41] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Yeah. That's so beautiful. And you know that it's permanently ours. And I would say no one can take it away from you. You know, that source is so much about compassion and love as well. And, you know, service really is a key component of that. To a demonstration, I would say, about love that connects all of us.

[35:04] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Absolutely.

[35:05] PARASTOU YOUSSEFI: Yeah. Well, thank you, Fabs, for sharing your story. It's so wonderful to speak with you and get to know you a little bit better and your path to Sufism and how it enriched your life.

[35:19] FARIBORZ MASOODIAN: Thank you, Paris. It was a pleasure, and it was great to get to know about your story as well.