PART 4 Gina, Shay, and Rahni: A conversation with a war veteran, a single mother, and her daughters and the effects of Social Injustice.

00:01 Okay, so we go into phase four, and now we'll discuss our current position and how we are maintaining, how we recover from the past and where we go from here. So I think the first thing I'll discuss is my current unresolved issues with the VA. And I think the biggest issue is I can't get students loans because I had a loan forgiveness. So unless I go to the doctor to get a clearance, they won't give me any loans. Now, the VA won't provide a clearance, so there's nothing I can do unless I go and pay and see an outside doctor. And if I pay to see an outside doctor and that doctor declares that there's nothing wrong with me, then I lose my VA benefits. You know? So it's like a double edged sword that, you know, it needs to be ironed out. And the VA doesn't see it as an issue, but it really is a problem because in one aspect of it, they're saying that they're clearing our debt, but they're not really clearing our debt. They're only clearing a portion of our debt. And that's not how it should be. They should either clear all of our debt or don't charge us for school at all. You get what I'm saying? And it's not working out the way that they profess it to be working. And then I think the next thing is the VA find a way to take your money. Every three to four years. They say you owe something, but they can't give back documentation of what you owe. They take, and they owe you. Just like I said. My actual counselor for Voc rehab, she was like, oh, I found some money that we owe you. You know, that should offset any cost. So she pulls back money that she owes me from 2019. You get what I'm saying? So that money has been sitting there, but yet, and still the VA keeps saying that I owe them money. So they're charging me the money that they actually owe me, and they'll do.

02:10 The paperwork for the stuff that you owe them and not.

02:12 And then they'll realize they made a mistake and. And sit on my money. And it takes for me to ask for them to actually, you know, provide me with my money. So those are the current things that we're dealing with. That I'm dealing with now, as far as the VA, outside of the fact that I probably need to go and seek more medical attention. And you guys know that about me. I just don't like the doctor, you know, I just hate the VA. Like.

02:37 You guys said, given the history, completely under, not to mention, like we talked about in terms of them triggering, like, all of their staff, at least from my perspective, are not worthy of their titles. They either don't know how to be professional, and they're, like, intentionally triggering you, or they have their own presumptions of what the soldiers, that they don't see anybody individually. So, like, once they get to a certain point with soldiers, once they've had this amount of freakouts or whatever, they take everything. Like, everything I say is going to trigger you. So I'm just gonna do whatever. Instead of actually censoring myself as a doctor should and handling you properly and by myself, treating you like a regular person, and by then treating you like just regular people when they're supposed to be more sensitive about it, that in itself triggers you.

03:44 Yeah.

03:44 Because regardless of how people feel about the situations, people who have gone through what veterans have, base level, deserve more respect than a normal person. So the fact that not only do you have that, but the fact that the. These people literally have mental problems, physical problems, they are struggling, and they need you to help them. It's literally your job. You're getting paid to specifically help them, and you're not doing it. Yeah. Most of them don't at all.

04:23 And that's the truth. And it is a trigger. I get anxiety and generally have an anxiety attack every time I have to go to the VA. Every single time. Every single time. It never fails.

04:33 It's not even just the doctors, but they will. Like I said before, you have, like, the people that are just, like, sitting in wheelchairs and stuff, and they don't have anywhere else to go, but they leave them there in that triggered state, and then anyone who walks in is immediately triggered by all of those things.

04:51 Yeah.

04:51 So not only that, but, like, it goes even further into your paperwork's not getting handled properly because they're triggering you and shoving you out of the building instead of handling your stuff, and you don't get anything. So then you have to spend all this time recuperating your mental health just to go back and for them to do it again.

05:12 I have to threaten to file a congressional, and I've had to do it so many times in order for them to.

05:21 You're still looking at it as a soldier, but you're a civilian, and these.

05:29 Are still doctors, but they still work for the government. Yeah, but they still have to be board certified by a medical board that is not owned by the military. Oh.

05:41 Because if you take that medical license not only can they not work at.

05:45 The VA, they can't work at all.

05:49 You can get them in trouble with.

05:50 The VA, and they'll just go get another job at a different job. But this is what the VA does. If you go in and you look at all of these specialists. Cause I have about three doctors for three different things. The specialist that I have, he's not even a doctor. He's a nurse practitioner. Yeah, but he's been passing off himself as a doctor. But he still has a medical board that handles that. That's not military.

06:18 You can go. And if the military, the VA isn't.

06:21 Gonna do anything, go around them, because this is your civilian true story. But they still treat everybody accountable to those rules anymore, but they still try and treat us like we are. They try. But the thing is, is you let them. It's not that you let them know. They understand that, realize that there's another way, but there is. Because no one tells you. Well, that's the reason why I filed a congressional. Because that was the only way I knew how.

06:52 Right.

06:53 But the thing is, is you got to understand when you've been trained the way we have in the military, and I hate using the term brainwashed, but it's a bit of validity to that.

07:09 It's fine to just call it training if you're more comfortable with that, because that's.

07:14 But it's not training. It's conditioning.

07:17 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

07:18 Training. They've been calling that themselves.

07:20 It's literally.

07:20 Yeah, it's conditioning. And they have, you know, like going into the military, you know, they take away your tv, they take away the. You all right?

07:29 Yeah. Just almost went down the wrong pipe.

07:32 Eating all that candy. But they do. They take away the television, they take away the news, they take away everything. So for a good twelve weeks and twelve weeks straight, it's bouquet. Yeah, yeah. It's nothing but what they're putting in us, I think with me, because I went in at an earlier age and because I was law enforcement and I was privy to laws and all this, it was a little bit harder to indoctrinate me or to condition me. I could not conform. Now, I changed a bit, you know, my structure changed. But the core of who I am, I mean, there's. Excuse me.

08:13 There's some validity to what the military brings to, especially in terms of structure.

08:23 I appreciate it.

08:26 That doesn't constitute all the other stuff that comes with it, and if it does, it does not constitute the ways in which they do. Not fix it.

08:36 There's, there's no way to fix it.

08:38 Because I'm saying, like, you think people don't know how the VA is? Half of these people who are politicians are our military. They all know. But the thing is that they're either so rich or they're so far above.

08:54 That now that it doesn't matter to them.

08:56 It doesn't matter.

08:57 It's just political.

08:58 Yeah. The policies that they're making for this to continue is you just imagine when.

09:05 Obama came in and did a sweep. It made it so much better, but it is still horrible. So just imagine how much worse it was when I went, do you know they were sitting on my paperwork in Georgia? And that's one thing I love about LA. Cause LA is always, even though that they're horrible, they got to the bottom of it. They were like, we're gonna find your paperwork. Where is it sitting? They were like, why is your paperwork sitting in Georgia? And then Georgia was like, we don't have the paperwork. The paperwork is in Hawaii. And they were like, why is your paperwork sitting in Hawaii? And then LA was like, well, you weren't here, you know, and Georgia don't know you. So we're gonna let Hawaii make the decision. And when they went to Hawaii to make the decision, they went back to the very same doctor who actually. And he was like, she is absolutely 100%. And that's how I ended up getting everything properly, which leads us to here, because that's where things started to get a little different for me. Right. So I remember buying all this furniture from that furniture store that I loved so much, the gray furniture. Remember, remember I had the elephant tusk tusk tables and all this other stuff because we were starting over. I remember one day I walked into the house and I recognized nothing about my life. So I realized in that moment, and I didn't quite realize it. It took me a while, but I didn't know. I didn't recognize anything. I didn't recognize the furniture. And I was like, I would never purchase this furniture. I was. Remember I got rid of that furniture, like maybe a month after I had a purchased it because I just couldn't stand to see it. I would never have purchased that furniture for myself. It just wasn't me. It wasn't how I lived, it wasn't my mentality, it was none of the above. And I was just losing my mind.

10:45 Yeah. After that, something triggered something. Something snapped you out of it. And then that's when you started getting triggered by stuff again, because I didn't.

10:55 Know who I was. I was like, who has been living my life? You know, gray curtains. Like, who. Who is this person? So I was like. It went back to that disassociation, you know, and I realized that I had to become something in order to protect the core of who I am. So I had to become someone else in order to get us through the hard times. And once the hard times were over, I would revert back to me, and I didn't recognize any of the things that had gone on when I was in that state of mind. You said that that's when it started triggering me. What? I started being triggered again? I thought I was getting better. No.

11:41 You.

11:43 So, have I gotten better or worse.

11:50 Now? The stuff that's triggering you does is not a life or death. Like, it's not.

11:57 I'm just old and irritable.

11:59 No, it's like, it's personal stuff now. It's like you're actually, like, living in the world. So now you're. You're a civilian again.

12:07 Okay.

12:08 You're dealing with civilian things, but you have the triggers of a soldier, and that's what makes it different.

12:15 Oh, I see.

12:16 However, you get better in some ways. It's just like, you understand what it is, but you don't realize how you're fighting against, like, a. Fixing it and admitting it. So, like, you start to understand it, but you don't do anything about it.

12:47 Really, because it's not my focus at the time. I'll be trying to get us where we need to be, you know? So looking at it, looking back at it, do. Can you guys see how the struggles I went through were based on social injustice, or do you think it's me? Do you think I have a huge part in. I believe I was doomed from a kid.

13:17 Like, yeah, given your history there, because regardless of the military, there was already trauma. There was already trauma, there was already PTSD, and there was already significant effects on your life because of your rate. Not even. Just, like, you're dealing with the trauma that happened to your parents because of their race and your parents parents because of their parents parents parents parents. So all that living in inner city la.

13:51 Yeah.

13:51 Was not. Yeah.

13:53 Conducive to a happy life. Either way, it changes.

13:55 Like, the family structures that we lived in were due because of our race. So, from the beginning, yes, there was a bunch of stuff that is even affecting stuff now because how you dealt. How you dealt with the PTSD and trauma that you got from the military was affected by your previous trauma and.

14:20 PTSD and our family not believing in going to therapy, and that was for crazy people. And black people don't go to counselors.

14:28 I think what you. You also don't. For a long time, you didn't. I don't know if you didn't give yourself the benefit of doubt or you just didn't realize, but, like, you were still a child, right? You were growing up and finally dealing with the trauma that you had had as a child. You were actually growing up, and, like I did. You were starting to, like, connect the dots and perceive the thing. True story. So.

14:54 And I didn't have time before because I was a mom.

14:56 Exactly. So once you, like, once you kind of settled into that second bout of PTSD that you got, you were able to perceive it with context, but you weren't giving yourself the context of the past and the fact that you were still a kid.

15:17 Still a kid.

15:17 Which is also, like we said, like, we don't blame you for it because we seen this. We understand why you did what we.

15:25 Well, I'm super impressed that you guys were able to see the things that I couldn't, you know? And I think that was part of why I raised you guys the way that I raised you. I wanted you to be different because I did recognize that there were some things missing there, you know, especially going into the military. But I was always taught to work hard to survive no matter what. There had to be that hustle there. Now, the blessing that I had was being biracial. You know, it was a blessing and a curse because I'm dark skinned, but I grew up white. Do you get what I'm saying? So a lot of that translated to a certain privilege, not because of my color, but because of how I spoke and how I maintained and how I handled myself in a public space.

16:16 It wasn't even. You gotta stop thinking of it in the context of you grew up white because your grandmother is white. It wasn't that you grew up white. You literally just grew up, like, middle class.

16:29 Middle class.

16:30 You were privileged. That's how. Because that is a part of that was then. That privilege was literally an entirely different subset of society.

16:41 Yeah, it was.

16:42 So, like, now there's not, like, a separation to where, like, the middle class and everything else is just blending together. You literally went to etiquette classes because you were middle class. Yeah. It wasn't whiteness. That was the privilege of being middle class, which.

16:58 Yes, but I think it's because my grandmother is white that we even had the knowledge to do all those things. Yeah, because I took etiquette classes for years until. Well, every year for.

17:09 And that's definitely why. But also, you're. You also have that tidbit of when you got into those schools with these kids that did not have those privileges. They called that white.

17:22 Yeah.

17:22 They called them being.

17:25 They told me that I talked like a black girl.

17:27 What they were perceiving as whiteness because they, as black people, did not have that privilege. They've never seen a black person with that privilege.

17:36 Got it. That makes sense.

17:37 So that was whiteness. They equated that privilege to whiteness, which is what made it white, not the privilege.

17:42 I see what you're saying.

17:43 Yeah.

17:44 So I'm just misidentifying it, if that's a word.

17:48 Yes.

17:48 But you do understand what I mean when I say that. Shay

17:55 Yeah.

17:56 Thoughts? You have been so quiet. And you're the oldest. You. You got more experience than your sister, but your sister is.

18:03 I just ramble. Ignore me.

18:05 Cause you are your mother's child.

18:07 I think it's good for her to know that she can speak.

18:13 Yeah.

18:14 I don't always have to speak for us.

18:17 I don't want you to speak for her.

18:18 I know. Like, what I mean is. Is like, a lot of the things that she's saying is how I feel.

18:24 Oh, I see.

18:26 So, like, there's no need for.

18:28 So she's speaking for you guys now because she.

18:31 We have a shared experience. It's not exactly the same, but a lot of the things that we perceived is very similar.

18:42 Let me ask you two a question. Do you two believe that you were raised in the middle class experience, like me, while I was upper middle class?

18:52 Yeah, you were upper middle class? I think we were.

18:58 Not even financially, but I mean, like.

19:01 Behavior, not necessarily to the extent that you were. We. It's not even middle class. It's literally just the privilege of military kids. It's a different kind of.

19:17 It's a different type of privilege.

19:19 Like middle class, but, like, it's different. It's different.

19:24 But what about, like, your mannerisms and your morals and your values of.

19:31 It's not something that I would specifically identify as that. It's just we grew up with knowledge, I would say. Yeah. Like, you just taught us manners. Like, it was just, like.

19:43 Not just manners, just about life in general.

19:46 Like, yeah, we just grew up with. That was just like how we were supposed to be. It wasn't like we went through. It wasn't like being like.

19:56 So you guys didn't get all the pomp. And circumstance that I got, hey, this is life.

20:02 This is how you live. And I was just like, okay.

20:05 And I think a lot of that is me protecting you guys from the things that were, like, forced on me. Like, I had to sit a certain way at the table, you know, I had to sit on my left hand and. Yeah, I had to know where my forks and spoons went. I could not wear dresses without having a slip or an undershirt on. I had to have stockings on.

20:25 You know, we had some of that earlier. Yeah, earlier, because I think I vaguely mentioned it earlier, but in terms of, like, your Christianity and stuff, and like I said just recently, like, you were still young, so you were still dealing with all of that trauma. You were still coming up out of all of that stuff. So a lot of our early childhood was affected.

20:54 Yeah. I didn't let you guys watch Harry Potter because I thought it was the devil.

20:58 You could watch wizards, which is like the furthest infra we have. I remember the day I realized Halloween town. Thank you. It was my favorite movie. That made no sense. She was literally. And you watched me with me. It had no issues. I didn't. Like, I. Yeah, I'm. That's what I was thinking about before when I lost it and I couldn't figure it. So in terms of like, your Christianity and stuff, like, I was. I didn't grow up with. I didn't even know, like, that whole part of your life was really. She didn't go to church like the first time. I was like full blown, like, cuz we. I'd known your side of the family before, but I knew, like, I was like vaguely like Tavia, Kenya, Lisa. I kinda knew Auntie Tani, I knew Jay, I knew my cousins, and I.

21:59 Knew.

22:03 Tina and all the kids. I kinda like, I kind of. I got like the same.

22:08 And see, I wasn't allowed to hang out with Tina when I was younger. We had to sneak and see each other because one time with Tina, but that's because those are the ones that I love the most. I wasn't allowed to hang out with Tina because she was lower class and.

22:19 We were the upper class and even that's like.

22:22 And we're family.

22:23 Could you imagine classified and racism in family? Yeah, but I'm saying in terms of, like, race, the reason that was we wanted to make that distinction was her siblings. Yes, but I mean specifically in terms of, like, I didn't remember when you told me I couldn't watch Waverly.

22:46 We were here in El Paso, but.

22:48 In Beaumont, yeah, but we flew in from Hawaii for Christmas, and we spent it with Auntie Tani, Jalen and Amari. She was, like, newborn. And that was the Christmas I got sammy, and we were. Y'all were doing something. So all the kids got shoved into her bedroom, and it came on, and I was like, oh, I can't watch this. I was like, wait, before we put it on, because I really just wanted to sit and watch it, but I was like, oh, before we put it on, I have to go out there and ask her if I can watch this. And I was like, why would I have. That was just, okay, let me just do that. But I remember you going, like, yeah, of course you can. Like, you didn't remember telling me that.

23:34 That I couldn't.

23:35 That I couldn't watch that. So I remember being like, am I tripping? Like, I know she. Like, she made it seem so casual, but I've been avoiding this, like, for. So it was the same thing, like, with how you used to, like, punish us and then forget that you did it, but we would still abide by it. Yeah.

23:52 And I was so surprised, like, you.

23:53 Guys didn't watch tv all that time. Yeah, but, like, you would, like, tell us stuff, and I'd be like. Like, in my trip. I know she said this. Like, I know I'm supposed to be doing this.

24:11 You guys gotta understand, too, that I was dealing with a lot of spirituality. I was going through a transition with understanding. Is God real or is God not? Or. And I had always been taught, like, give you an example, a young girl in my church who was having a seizure, and the pastor told all of us that she was possessed with a demon. And instead of them calling the ambulance for this little girl, the whole church was trying to exorcise a demon out of her. So could you imagine the trauma of that alone? So it was like, you will not watch wizards of waverly place because I was trying to protect you from the.

24:52 People that religion got over.

24:53 Yeah, religion, people was horrible for me. It was. It was horrible. You know, I do still believe in.

25:00 It's a true chokehold.

25:01 Like, it's oppression.

25:04 I know. That's what I'm saying. Because, one, our reliance on that comes from slavery. And then we got. And then it became a form of control as well. And now it's just like, this convoluted things.

25:23 It's PTSD. It's, like, post traumatic one.

25:26 It is. It literally is generational trauma. But the problem is, now we're the main ones perpetuating it. Instead of just living, which is. It's still part of the trauma, because the fact that we're not even ready to acknowledge any of that is part of the trauma that's still keeping a hold on the community as a whole. But it's a.

25:48 It's just. I've been a good person all my life, and the first part of my life, I was a good person because I literally thought that God was watching me from the sky. Like, I literally thought that.

26:02 Yeah. And it was something like.

26:05 Like I couldn't do anything. Anything, because I thought God was watching my every move. So I stayed on the straight narrow.

26:16 I had that for a while, too, but, like, now that I'm. I remember I told you that one time, I don't remember what church was we went to, but they had us doing that coloring book.

26:29 Yeah.

26:29 And they gave us. They gave us a coloring book, and it was Jesus on the cross. And I remember coloring his blood in with the. I remember having to ask for the red crayon. Cause I got the box that didn't have it. I was asking around, like, giant carry ons, and I was coloring in his blood, and I was like, this is really weird, because I was, like, at that age where I was, like, starting to watch stuff that I didn't really need to be. So I had actually, you know what it was? I think we were. What. What place was it that had, like, that black rug with, like, the head of. It was, like, a panther rug or something. Somebody had, like, a. It was where. Remember when I beat up all them boys in front of the house?

27:16 That was Tina's house.

27:18 That was her cousin. That was her cousin. It wasn't hers. Okay. It was so. Oh, one time we were over there, and the crucible was on tv, and I was. It scared me so much. Like, I was, like. It was my first time watching something and having, like, full blown, like, crazy emotions because I was.

27:42 And that's why I kept you guys away from wizards of Waverly place.

27:48 We watched the passion of the craze. That. No, that. It was the passion of the cards. That's what it was. I was terrified for. She watched it, but I watched Elle's.

27:59 Metaphor scene for not letting Kairi go.

28:02 Like. Like that. Do you understand? Like, that. That's hair, baby. Demon thing. She had, like, to this day, like, I still get anxiety thinking about it.

28:13 I'm sorry.

28:14 It's okay.

28:14 But I like when you told me about coloring in the blood of Jesus and how that freaked you out. That's when I was done with Christianity, and I don't. I hate to say that I'm done with Christianity because I don't believe in. I believe in a form of Christ, but not in the physical sense, if.

28:34 That makes sense within the context that it's been fed to the world.

28:39 Yeah, I don't want. I don't like the religious aspect of it.

28:42 And honestly, it's sad because there was, at some point, some validity in what religion meant. Even when it was the times that it was still horrible, there was still some nobility in it. But now it's reached a point to where we do not live in a world where the bad stuff that's happening because of it can be hidden.

29:07 Yeah.

29:07 It was good at a time to where it wasn't, when that stuff wasn't being acknowledged. So it was mostly good.

29:12 But in my course, the same course that we're doing this interview for, we just went over this about the Catholicism and, you know, the catholic priest and what they were doing. So you are actually speaking.

29:25 Yeah. The thing is that, like, I grew up with that context after a certain point. Like, you know, especially when we were, like, in Hawaii. I grew up watching criminal minds and Grey's Anatomy in documentaries, on documentaries.

29:39 And that's because you were homeschooled, and I had to monitor what you guys were watching. But, like, I think that was educational in my. My perspective, but I grew up with.

29:50 That context, is what I'm saying. So, like, none of this was ever, like, I don't have any good connotations that come with religion because it's either traumatized you. It was either something I had to do and get dressed up in itchy dresses and smile at people I didn't want to be around. It was the context of the people from the crime shows I was watching.

30:15 You know what's so funny? Everything that you just said, those itchy dresses and being around. I was never allowed to have that type of opinion. I was never allowed to even think. The thought. I had to monitor everything that I said. So even with oppression, oppression trickled over into black society.

30:37 The way that we function as a society, aside from, like, the culture. We retain our culture because it was in our blood. So it's under a different name or whatever now, but we still have a lot of that same exact culture. We can match up anything from wherever, from wherever, and we'll still have it in some way, shape, or form. However, the way that we raise our children and the way that we function as a whole is literally that of a slave. Master and their servants. And that's literally how we function. We abuse our children because that's how we were disciplined, and we don't know any.

31:22 I didn't abuse you guys.

31:24 No, I'm saying the community. The community.

31:25 Oh, I was about to say, did I hit y'all? No, I didn't.

31:29 But, like, that, I just didn't believe.

31:33 In hitting kids because of the very thing that you're speaking on now.

31:36 Yeah, like, that, we see that is discipline, but it's literally just abuses of.

31:42 Control and a form of control.

31:45 But, like, that's how we function.

31:48 And then the fear of going out and being around white people, you know, and have to behave this way and you have to behave that way, and you don't need to do this, and you can't do that. Don't wear your pants like this. Make sure you dress up. It's like, we have to be 100% better.

32:06 Being literally the one. The biggest thing that. When that hit me was Trayvon Martin. I remember sitting and, like, freaking out over it, and I wasn't, like, really freaking out. I wasn't, like, really perceiving it for what it was.

32:24 But, like, it was your first exposure to it.

32:27 In my mind. I was like, that could have been Jalen. Yeah, that could have been Kenny. That could have been so many people. And then I started to realize, like, that is so many people. That was Kenny's dad.

32:39 Yeah, it was.

32:40 That could have been my dad.

32:41 That was my sister.

32:42 It was your sister. So I'm sorry.

32:47 I don't like when you cry, but.

32:50 Like.

32:53 It could be any of us.

32:54 It could be any of us. And I don't think, like, there was just this one lady. She just talking about the abortion law that's going on right now. And she was saying that her daughter had said that there had never been a time in history where it was as bad, like, basically that prejudice, racism, blah, blah, blah, was as bad as it was now. And she was. The. Somebody responded was like, you lived in an era where, like, black people couldn't ride buses, segregation, all this stuff existed. And she was like, yeah, but, like, their voting rights weren't in danger, and they weren't getting killed just because they were black. And she's from the fifties. She grew up in segregated schools. She grew up in. It goes further into, especially specifically, Texas, how critical race theory is not being taught. But one, it's just history, and two, they, as a whole, are so far removed from that. When I had to grow up with that, there was barely a time of where I was fully conscious as a human being and able to process information where I didn't realize that I could have died because of my skin color. And, like, they will never understand it. They will never grasp it. It's so perplexing because, like, that's crazy. And the thing is, like.

34:29 And then they try to compare their struggles with ours, and it's like. And I think that's one of the biggest things that, like I said, you guys already know how I feel about, you know, the gay community. I have no problems with the gay community. But the difference between the gay community and being black is nobody has to know you're gay unless you tell them. We're gonna always wake up black, no matter what. And that's the scariest part I know I had. For me, the biggest realization was when George Floyd. And it was like a public lynching. And it was the first time I ever thanked God for not having any sons and not having a husband, because I wouldn't have been able to handle that. You know, that really, really damaged me. It damaged me to the point to where it was like, this world is really out of control right now. Like, I felt like we were in hell, you know? And I likened it to everything that I had been going through as a woman. And it's like, you think about this young lady that just was at Fort Hood that they killed. You think about the other young lady that went to war, and they raped and killed her and tried to say it was a suicide. Do you understand that? That could have been me because I gave these people in the military so much hell because I fought and fought and fought. Do you know, at any given time, they could have killed me and got away with it and said that I was ill, a wall. And it's almost like, how can I not believe in a God or a supreme being? Because I was carried through. And I'm grateful for my grandmother because she gave me that sense of I never felt like I was inferior to anybody. So when everybody else saw me as inferior because of my color, I was seeing them as uneducated, and I was literally degrading them. In a sense.

36:32 That's kind of what we have now. It's very twisted because your generation, if they did not grow up, if they grew up with the context of racism, unlike you, they, no matter what, still have that level of insuperiority, and not because they. Inferiority. Sorry, but not because they believe that they are, but because they know, no matter what, it doesn't matter if they are or not.

37:01 And see, I didn't grow up with.

37:02 That, and you didn't grow up with that, which is why you were able to go so, like, not even that, because, like you said, stuff could have happened. But, like, now, our generation, we're growing up with the context that, yes, these people are dumb and they're intentionally making themselves dumb, but we know and we've educated ourselves, so. So they're gonna get hell for it.

37:29 And that's.

37:29 Yeah, and it's another, like, resurgence of, like, what it was in the past, but it's more complex because now they're.

37:39 Not gonna get away with.

37:40 Not even that, but they're still getting.

37:42 Away with it systematically.

37:44 And that's the problem. And, like, that's one hump that, like.

37:49 It'S hard to get overdem.

37:50 Not hard, but, like, you just.

37:52 You have to wait it out. You have to wait it out. But we won't see it in our lifetime.

37:57 But the thing is, there's too many. We're still living in a generation where they're the ones in control. But what happens when they go away and these kids that have just been sitting there watching and fighting against it.

38:10 This whole time, when they become these.

38:12 Same people in these same positions, it's not going to work the way that it worked before. So, unfortunately, and one of our professors told me this, the only way to fight racism and end racism is with.

38:26 Time and education, because we're not worried.

38:31 About these racist people on the streets, because it's too late to really like some of them.

38:36 You can get, but what you really need to be focused on is the kids.

38:43 But here's the problem, especially in Texas, they're literally fighting again. They're literally trying to ensure that their children will be the same way they.

38:53 Which is what comes in handy when.

38:55 People are fighting against it. I'm not saying to stop fighting, because if you shake the room, yeah, people are gonna watch.

39:03 And that's now they're like, I've been living with what's going on. They tried to do what, now they can't hide it, so now the kids are gonna see it anyways. My mother used to always tell me that light shines in darkness, and darkness doesn't comprehend it. She said it's like walking into a room that's really dark and everybody is stabbing each other in the back and, you know, doing all these ungodly things, and then here I come and walk in and turn the light off, and I have the audacity to turn the light on and experience, expose everything that's going on. When these people were in a safe environment, doing whatever the hell it is that they wanted to do, and now I come in and expose them. And she said, there's always going to be resistance. I'm always going to be the odd person out. You know, she said, you. She said that I'm. She's like, Gina you've always been the black sheep. She said, but the black sheep always means that I'm not the sheep headed to the slaughterhouse.

40:01 And that's. That speaks to the most baser human experience, because not only that, but, like, as a black person, because we're fighting.

40:15 That on all levels, on all levels of existence, especially being women.

40:20 Especially with being women. And, like, one already being born. We got complications in the hospital, then we're women. So we triple have. We have bad stuff happen to us in hospitals in general. We got people in our community putting us in the hospital. We got people in our community telling us that the people who did put us in the hospital aren't the ones who put us in the hospital. We have so much hate and stuff coming from literally every direction.

40:51 Every direction, everyone. And we just survive. So that goes to pretty much the last real question. How do you think we've coped out of everything that we've been through?

41:07 Well, we could be better, but that comes with time, and we will get it together. But for what it is, we could have been so, so much worse off.

41:22 Yeah, we got a beautiful home. You know, we pretty much have everything in life that we ever wanted and need. You know, we're not struggling. We can be a lot better with our finances, but the finances are there. You know what I mean? What do you think? I don't know.

41:45 Me personally, I've just been going to therapy because that's really, like, I'm not.

41:52 Going to be able to solve this.

41:53 By myself because me trying to do.

41:56 That just made it worse.

41:59 So I've just finally just admitted that I need some help, so I'm getting it.

42:06 Yeah. What about you? You think you need therapy?

42:11 I did at some point, but now I've reached a point of such self awareness that therapy isn't gonna work.

42:19 That's how I feel. I don't trust the therapist. I'm telling you how. Listen, I'm telling you how I feel, not my reality. I'm telling you that's how I feel. I know what's wrong with me. There's no need for me to pretend like I don't. I know but my biggest issue is, I, again, when I go to see the therapist, they try to fix things that don't have anything. They're trying to figure out why I'm so intelligent. Well, your girls have made it, and you're doing so well. So I don't understand why you. This and this and that, you know, it turns into something that I don't.

42:50 Want to deal with. Into them dissecting you?

42:53 Yes, and I don't want to be dissected, you know, but for me, like.

42:59 I've one gotten so used to talking myself out of and, like, figuring out my own problems mentally, that, like, honestly, there would be no point unless I literally just wanted someone to talk to.

43:17 Yeah, I see what you're saying. Do you think what we're doing right now is therapy? You think it's therapeutic?

43:22 It's therapeutic.

43:23 It's therapeutic, I think. How do we maintain? You know, I think we're doing good, and I know you guys made light of it, but, you know, Sharonda's got her degree. You're on your way to getting yours. You're the president of your sorority. You know, your GPA is amazing. You're on the dean's list. And, you know, I think I've done damn good. Good as a parent, you know, in spite of. But the question is now, how do we maintain with Sharonda getting her own apartment soon? You're gonna be going to the dorm soon. Do you think I will be able to function, or do you think it's gonna be a period of breaking down for me? Because as a woman and a Gemini woman at that, there's two things in life that I need. I need something to fight for, and I need something to love. And you and your sister have both been that for me.

44:24 Yes. But again, one, when you had us, you were still growing up. You were still going through all your stuff, but, like, you've never had time to actually do that. So I feel like there will be a period of you possibly breaking down. Yeah, but you have the time to actually heal yourself right now, and even if that means by yourself and not with the therapist, you have that time. You have that ability. If that means going out and figuring stuff out about yourself and not staying in the house and having that breakdown, whichever way you need to do it, you will have the time to do that. And I think it's time for all of us. We did. I think even though we're really far ahead in life and we're doing great, a lot of this stuff should have happened. Sooner.

45:19 A lot of what, I've never had any support. I didn't have my family. I didn't have my mom or dad. So a lot of what we're doing and where we are, we're markedly above a lot of people just based on all that I've done. And I'm telling you, had I not had that upper middle class experience, we would not be where we are today. So I am grateful for it. I'm grateful for the structure, even the religion at some points, because there's no telling what ungodly things I may have done to try to survive had I not had, you know, religion, you know? So I am, in a sense, grateful for it, but I'm also grateful for the fact that I feel free. You know, me being a homeowner, me having my DD 214, you know, being educated. All that feels. You know, what that feels like to me? It feels like I have my freedom papers. And I know that sounds odd, but a lot of people around us don't have their freedom papers, and they have this mentality. And society is perpetuating that, you know, by the social injustice. But for me, I have my freedom papers, and because I'm free and because I'm educated and I own a home, it's not much people can say to me because my attitude is like, who do you think you talking to? I'm free. Do you get what I'm saying? Versus someone else that I can sit next to, like maybe. Maybe a family member that hasn't done much, let's just say Kenya or Lisa or Krista or Auntie Barbara. Auntie Barbara has her freedom papers because she looks like a white woman. Do you get what I'm saying? But what about Vera? She doesn't have her freedom papers. She still depends on what the system is going to provide for her. You know, it's.

47:21 It's different.

47:22 She doesn't walk with the same confidence that I walk with. She doesn't walk with the same mentality that I walk with. But again, it is that sense of class. But it all boils down to all these years later. We are still stuck in a slave mentality. We are still blacks in America. And I just so happen to have my freedom papers. And by virtue of who I am, that's extended to you all. You know, the christian church like to call it a generational curse. I broke the curse. You get what I'm saying? But we're still dealing with the residuals of it. And not only the residuals of it, but the perpetuation of social injustice. You know what I mean? Just by being black, I never in a million years that it felt like I would have to go through it with mexican people. But we go through it here in El Paso. I do. At least I didn't deal with this in LA. I do. I didn't start dealing with racism or any type of real injustice until I got into the military. Law enforcement. I take that back. It started in law enforcement, but out.

48:37 Here it's such interesting thing because, one, you have these people who are clearly coming from a less privileged place, a place of, like, horrible stuff, but, like, directly, like, it's not in LA where they move there.

48:57 And then that dog just scared the shit out of me. Sorry, did you put your middle finger up to the dog?

49:04 I flip him off all the time. But in Ladenhead one, even though we had, like, the rivals, we got, like, all our stuff going on, our cultural stuff going on, where we matched. We were both still the minorities, Asians too. Like, we were all collectively together. And not only that, but we were also collectively what made la la. We were cohesive even when we were going head, but heading. But again, so out here you have people directly trying to get their children out of those environments and raising them in privilege because they don't want them to have the type of life that they have. But their children's become Americans and not.

49:59 I see what you're saying.

50:00 So you have.

50:01 They lose that culture. They lose that, yes.

50:04 And they go into this american culture, which is like an amalgamation of, like, literally everything in existence, basically. But they also still kind of have their cultural roots, which is cool, but they're the, they're the majority. So their privilege is privilege no matter.

50:28 What their culture, cultural background is. Exactly.

50:30 They're not in LA where they have privilege in terms of where their family used to be, but they're still getting a leg up and they're progressing and they got that. We gotta progress. We gotta keep going here. It's nothing but nepotism and not like, well earned nepotism where it's like, okay, but yeah, it's literally just a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend. And then, oh, there you go. But not because you really deserve it, but because we're related or. I know.

51:07 So let me tell you. Let me ask you this, and this is, this is a question for both of you guys. So now we see it in La, where La. I didn't really experience much racism until after I got out of the military because I was able to recognize it. But I grew up in a time where white people were scared of black people. You know, we would walk down the street, and if we were on the sidewalk, they would move out of our way, clutch their purses, and do all these different things. And we saw that as weird because nobody's even thinking about, you know, nobody's even paying attention to you or your purse, lady. And if you were gonna get robbed, it's not because you're white. It's because they need some money and they gonna rob whoever it is. White, black, purple, green, blue, it doesn't matter. And I don't think they understood that. But I think coming here, I'm learning that because the Mexicans here are the majority, there is a bit of racism. Oh, absolutely. Now, let me ask you a question. Do you think in places where blacks are the majority, we behave, like, racist?

52:15 That yes and no, because this is going to be, like, off topic, but it's going to relate to what I really want to say. But one of the reasons that white people are so scared for black people to get out of that slave mentality is that they fear, because if they were in our situation, they would retaliate horribly, but they fear that we're going to do that.

52:41 But it's not in our. It's not in us, it's not in our blood.

52:45 And even though we've gotten close to that potential, it was only ever in defense of ourselves.

52:51 Yeah. And we're very, very forgiving people, and I don't think they understand that about us, which is why, like, too forgiving sometimes.

52:57 Exactly. We were Martins, but once we got to that point of which we were becoming Malcolm's, it was still in defense of ourselves. It wasn't like we wanted to go out and do this stuff, but, like, we literally did not have any other choice. So in terms of places where we are the majority, we can have that mentality, because there's a lot of us that do want to get back at that, that do want to have that power and hold that power. But I think overall, we would not survive as a people. We would not be comfortable enough as a people to all collective do that. We'd be quicker to do that with ourselves than we do.

53:43 We do it with ourselves to go.

53:45 Out of our way to do that. And if we did, it would be, we don't feel comfortable mistreating you, so just don't be here at all. Yeah. So we're gonna. We're gonna segregate ourselves, but because.

54:00 But we're gonna deal in classism, not racism.

54:03 Exactly. It would be a matter of classism and not specific, specifically racism. And if it would, it would either be from people who were already that way or people who begun to be that way because they're being reintroduced to it by the others that come into because. I'm sorry, I know people hate to say it or acknowledge it, but everyone is racist against us no matter where we go. Racism exists in their societies.

54:35 And you know what?

54:36 And it doesn't.

54:37 It's like the world has an unhealthy obsession with black people.

54:41 They refuse to acknowledge it. They refuse, refuse, refuse. But at one point or another, they're going to have to acknowledge, especially in terms of Europe, you're literally the reason why racism in America exists the way that it is today. You birthed it. No matter what you say, no matter how hard you try to fight against it, what we live in right now is a result of you. And it's not you specifically. Yes, it's your forefathers, but by you not acknowledging it and trying to fix the problem, just because you are not actively racist does not mean that you don't have, you're not active in the benefits, in spreading it.

55:32 Like you're complicit.

55:34 You're complicit? Yes, like you're not doing anything to fix it. And you're saying that because you're not actively being racist. You're not racist, but you're benefiting from all of the racism that your forefathers did. And you get to live blissfully ignorant and you get to be rich and having fun and blah, blah, blah. But we are still dealing with the government, the financial, the everything repercussions, something.

56:01 As simple as being on a job. And because a person is white and you're black, they expect that they're supposed to have their job exactly before you.

56:10 And now they are like, oh, you're getting privileged because now they're hiring you just because you're black. No, they're hiring you because they're actually looking at our potential and what we have and qualifications we may be getting picked from. You're in, like, Georgia and we're getting picked from, like, Los Angeles and you're like, oh, they brought this person out of nowhere. But it doesn't change the fact that our resume is still stacked more than yours. It's not like they brought us for no reason. Yes, they still needed to fill that quota of having a black person, but they filled it with someone who's like.

56:48 The Supreme Court justice.

56:49 Exactly. And, like, I get it. And you get to feel the way you get to feel about it, but you don't get to feel racist about it, because if I have to feel that racism, you don't. You don't get the privilege of being that and not acknowledging it for what it is.

57:08 Yeah, I get that.

57:09 Get, like, you're going to continuously hear about this racism because that's all I've heard and been affected by my entire life. Like, you don't get the privilege of me ignoring it to save your feelings.

57:27 Yeah, I get it. Well, girls, unless you guys have any more questions for me, I want to thank you so very much for being open. Sharonda, I want to shun you for not saying I'm just shun the non believers. No, I'm just joking, baby. Do you have anything else to say?

57:53 No, that's basically it.

57:56 Also, you congested. Yeah. I'm sorry. Well, that's it, girls. I want to thank you for your time. I want to thank you for your openness. I want to thank you for the dialogue, because I think we. We all need. Needed it. Especially you. I think I learned so much about you guys that I really did not know. I just knew that you guys were close. Close, close. It's like, to even hear that you guys say that, it makes me cringe.

58:26 Yeah. Not even on 73rd street.

58:29 Well, you were so little on 73rd street.

58:32 But I'm saying, like, there was.

58:33 Yeah, but you were my baby on 73rd street.

58:39 God, that's crazy.

58:42 Well, I'm glad we've gotten through it, and I'm looking forward to seeing how we progress, you know, I'm looking forward to seeing how you all progress with all of the tools that you have. I would be lying if I said I wasn't nervous about you guys, you know, moving on. I am. I really don't want you to, but I know that it is something that has to happen.

59:05 Like I said, it's time. It's been time.

59:10 Yeah. So that concludes our interview. Bye. I don't know how to end it.