Paul Bracy and Donald Brown

00:02 Good morning. My name is Donald Brown and I am 72 years old soon to be 73 on February 4th. And today is Thursday, January 28th, in a town called Laverne Laverne is 25 miles east of Los Angeles. My dear friend Paul Bracy and a while. So I'm happy that this next on this call and Paul and I had the pleasure of coming together to begin talking about an organization. That would make a difference.

01:06 Call you may want to jump in good morning, and it's not as early here because I'm 80 years old married at 5 children.

01:27 Actually 7 +

01:33 Yes, they're coming together between down tonight. What was interesting? We didn't know each other and hopefully we'll talk more about how we came together.

01:45 So did I think we can we can jump right into the conversation Paul? I was reflecting last night. And what I was thinking about was that God blessed us you and me to come together a number of years ago 1989 and we brought nine men are together those nine men would have been truly become concerned black men of Massachusetts corporated and it's been 32 years since the formation of the organization and I'm just wondering your what are you feel best about? What are your Fondest Memories Are of concern black men of Massachusetts Incorporated.

02:35 But you know, it's interesting dumb and I think about it. It's 32 years later. If anything that's very impressive to me because

02:46 Different men leadership roles invested time and that's the only way the organization was able to last so that probably not just appreciation for what men coming together have done and concerned black men. I guess the other is what I mentioned earlier is the way that we came together in the men that came together in the barn that we formed was inspirational because it wasn't Eagle involved. It was more

03:19 We agree that we need to do something. So I go from 32 years impressed with that all the way back. We began. Yes. Yes. I feel the same way. He is has gone by so very very quickly. And as I think about the young men in the program, my son being one of them now being in his instant 30 years old. It's just amazing to me that the program had implications for yonkeados that I know anything about seem to be doing. Okay. I know that Andrew is doing well. You better read about the I think about our time together at the Boston College when we first started out.

04:18 If you had identified five, but I'm sorry identified. I believe Four Brothers with told you before and then they are concerned black men, but you and I decided to identify some gentleman and they were gentleman in the very best sense of the word representing various walks of life. So we didn't make any mistakes here for the long-term and evidence of the long-term was manifested the other day when we had them. All of the sound is the consistency is something that really resonates with me.

05:18 So for positive self-development, which we will talk about a little bit later on the gentleman that you identified and I'm very pleased with the gentleman that I identified.

05:51 I would agree with you. Absolutely that the selections of the people of the people that stayed and continued it would just be on top of you doing the right thing. The other memory that I have is

06:11 How he got started and there was a mutual friend Sonia Pennock, really?

06:22 Trying to stimulate that I contact I can remember different times talking with her and I was doing violence adolescent violence prevention work so I can be a solution isn't she was in the middle of the community organizations and why does women wear and so and so one time she was talking to me and saying, you know, you sound just like another friend of mine and you should contact him fuck the strange thing what you said that now I'm actually move forward and so I attributed

07:16 The creation of cbmm to her

07:20 Encouragement for me to contact you and that like you were saying we had a number of conversations about and where we aligned and not thinking and once that happened about bringing the other people to the group. So it's exactly creation and it's it's it's it's early as they are. Absolutely absolutely. Absolutely. I think we did know we absolutely did not know each other and of course, we we do Sonia we had thrown your rent in common. You are for a few years.

08:20 Bad I ever mentioned this to you called the invitation when you and I getting together when I was working on my doctorate at the University of Massachusetts Amherst in 1987.

08:36 I wrote a paper for a class B. He was a 16 for the paper and the paper with the extended black family concerned black men of greater Boston and it seemed like the paper and a big one that I needed to talk to you that our pact very, okay, and I'm looking at the paper. I'm looking at it. I pulled it out. It's extended off. I have it here and assembly laid out. It was laid out. Of course, you know, it was important that the gentleman I talked about the goals in the

09:36 Of the organization, but what I ain't cluded and preparing this paper our coming together. Okay, so you look at it and know that you and I have so much in common and I do remember I do remember your saying on several occasions. Let's get together done so that we could get to know each other so that we would be aligned and I was thinking and we did that. I think we probably been about three times if I'm not mistaken and then our assignment were to identify gentleman.

10:24 Who would become a part of the same?

10:32 You know, what's interesting about the people we fought together done because you aren't Academia the people you brought together looking for other sorts of people like Sandy was at the time was a fireman early Washington was a entrepreneur and other people who I ran into from a veterans organization I was involved in so I thought that bringing together was really great about Academia and learning Academia, but we all had the same concern that was a wonderful coming together station has lasted so long is that we want

11:26 And we weren't seeking a lot of attention because so many times these my feeling was it a lot of attention and that was one of the concerns that we had was we wanted to be able to stick and and and do the work that we knew was doing for these young man to help them. No question about it. No question about it, you know it in connection with that all and we were talking about it at our meeting the other day at that time. There was there was the coming together of some other gentleman in Boston and back across the United focusing on an organization called 100 black men and someone in Boston had the grandiose idea that rather than shooting for 100. He was going to shoot for a thousand.

12:26 Of course, it did not work. It did work and a good number of other organizations. It went by the wayside. He went by the wayside for the one as you mentioned that stands is concerned black men of Massachusetts Incorporated really is quite a bit and it's really has to do with what you say. No reason the Eagles at the door and it wasn't about you or me, but it was about the kids. That's what the what was so pretty Korean quite a bit more and that is when using Windows at the door.

13:24 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, what was what my concern was everybody was accomplished.

13:32 Everybody we bought together had a history of accomplishment in their own lives and my concern was that not to let that get in our way of doing the work and I think that was one of the first Things We Said and what was said so it would have to be open and free.

13:56 And if we had conflicts to be able to discuss them without

14:02 Being ego-driven and I think we've lived by it and I think that other men that is coming to the organization have lived by it. The other thing I would I would say about the answer to which I think is so important in there.

14:19 When is one of the things that I think you know when the Jewish faith will they have bar mitzvahs and Bat Mitzvahs it it symbolizes that you're the Paul Robeson Institute doing the Rites of Passage for young men with making the statement. You are a man. Now, you are part of the community and I think that was just a great thing that developed absolutely. Absolutely another question that I have of you and that is and what influence your thinking about concerned black men was it an incident wasn't an individual was in something in the literature that you you wed word real thing. Like I was Jewish brothers and sisters and what the

15:19 What they did by William what they do by way of raising men.

15:33 You know, this goes back a little bit and not that it was necessarily well-orchestrated, but in the military and I think you know that during that time I got involved because the military was having a lot of problems with racial tension and racial the island. I got involved in the developing nations education program where I was stationed at this time. I was stationed in a Air Force Base in Okinawa, Japan.

16:06 That experience changed my life and more more like that training around waist Nations education. I saw the need.

16:16 For black people to come together to really talk about issues and support one another so actually and I don't know if you know this Don I created an organization there. So the African American culture bringing people together, so that was really kind of the beginning for me and then I got involved in Saw.

16:43 That black men were not involved as a level that would help younger people and things like I mean the average man.

16:55 Who's in the community being involved in helping children? Learn how to resolve conflict instantly without fighting without knives and guns. So that kind of led me to this point and that was still germinating. I guess in me when I started my conversation with Sonia. How did it begin for you? Cuz I never heard the story about you writing the paper. Yeah. That was I think it had everything to do with leaving the ego at the door facing be not at the top of the bottom if you will feel this joining in okay, but in terms of despairing of of my thinking about African-American males, it started very very early on little bit about my background pole and I may have mentioned it to you.

17:53 My father died when I was 6 years old, my father died. Okay young man, but God allowed me to go on to the college how to get free. The bachelor's degree or Master American male lightning who needed to be okay. That was always wild-eyed Boston one of my former students that young people leave the way they provide open our eyes.

18:53 Right image of Dr. Jawanza kunjufu, could you please in written the book The Conspiracy to destroy black boys are volume 1 and volume 2 it influence my thinking in large numbers that they would be in suspended, you know that they would put being placed in between classes for the education challenge your back we debated just didn't look good for African-American males. So we got me thinking young brothers were on an upward trajectory. What what could we do to an end their lives? So when I wrote the paper

19:53 Works of jawanza kunjufu watching other people honor the read the writings of dr. Carter G Woodson The Mis-Education of the Negro. There was a gentleman who I met at a conference. His name is dr. Israel triple triple is what they called him and he wrote a book making them authenticating African American children a bold new plan for educational reform. I read the book when you're as I was getting ready to prepare the concert over the years and while that was way back in 1985 or so. It's still relevant today. Okay school another number of people influenced my thinking another one if you will was

20:52 Alla brother alodia's senior Statesman and that's it. Good Smith and dr. Smith.

21:02 Was in the Bay State that Banner Paul there was an article about his great work. He was serving at that time as a vice president for the University system and teen Express in African American males. What are we going to the boys? I had met him and not busy but then I would eventually called my assignment identify. All he was very very warm and I told you that we were working on bringing some brothers together right away. He said I wanted to I want to be I want to be apart so I didn't involve you been up to this day.

22:02 Concerned black men. I'll be it. He lives down the Mississippi in the program is a person that made me laugh so all of these and then again, we're at us to come together and can be in the nlds again. I didn't know that story about Edgar either. I just think the timing was right, not that we necessarily.

22:51 But it seems like that coming together was at the right time and it was enough commitment by everybody involved to to make something happen in and so that's so encouraging know that the timing was right for us to do this indeed indeed. It was so very correct on that. If I'm not mistaken you was around the time of the shooting at the Morning Star Baptist Church on Blue Hill Avenue. Remember there was a funeral there was a funeral of a gang involved. All right. Well be your pastor. I was conducting the the eulogy from young men came in and they started firing guns in the church.

23:51 That was the beginning of a number for saying that we need to do something for African American males in point Coalition was established in Boston. Okay now in use form, so that was another on the zoom call.

24:43 It struck me. Somebody made the comment about coming full circle.

24:48 That the early years Paul Robeson two young boys that were in that program becoming young man and then come back to service cbmm skin based on their experiences that I could've asked for that I couldn't even see that when we began but it is so

25:09 Confirming

25:11 To see when that happens when young men come back and Sir one of the Hallmarks at you. I know that you know, you talked about it. She talked about it other brothers talked about it and that was the whole notion of surging and paying it forward, you know, and it's in the other night too much is given much is required with something that we instilled and I think that my son threw that you'll be cause that's called of what he does now and he is no longer. So it's about giving about giving back Saturday program other areas that in some way to help someone else along

26:11 Encouraging come back and get gas and I was looking at something. I was looking at something recently Paul Ware run the virtues of concerned black men, and it has to do with the passage Lakewood.

26:49 Is courage is mentioned Cole Road Institute. I think it's important particularly for the the leaders of the program been involved in the East and the youngsters used to know. What a great man. Paul Robeson was how courageous Awards I listen to a speech that he has to find before McCarthy and McCarthy was taking him to task. Okay. This was a man. That was just extremely courageous. He put his life on the line.

27:49 You know, this man was an actor the man was Escala. He was an athlete. He was a renaissance man. He spoke about me. So we achieved in identifying call oats, and as the person in whose honor and whose name the pro the programs we wanted the youngsters to have this virtual call critically and then luminated folk like dr. Martin Luther King who talks about service, you know, we talked about talked about being faithful to what it was and what it was we said we were going to do we needed to do that. So

28:49 Once there was a purpose in name mean that's open and it's certainly needs to be in and young man. And it really it really takes me to a late John Lewis mentioned at young and old alike need to every now and then I get into good trouble. We need good trouble but in doing so it means that you may you may have to put your life on the line.

29:33 You know when you say that in John Lewis's comment and you know the rest of it Institute for positive self-development, how old is perseverance Vision this commitment and all these qualities needs young people will see not in a statement but in the behavior because we learned by modeling other people. So they're seeing examples of regular people.

30:16 Doing regular things but having a commitment to them no question about it. So important these would be because I think it was dr. King and if I didn't hear from dr. King, I certainly heard it for my wife Cheryl and she used to mention by your if you can't do your great things do small things and a great way. Did you go there you go. And that's what we need. That's what we need to do a little bit of time left all and I had another question, you know that I wanted to to ask you and that is

31:15 All concerned black men not think that they're doing an extraordinary job know Richard is doing a fine job is the president. What advice would you give to the leadership of concerned? Black men. Now? What advice would you give them? Is there something that needs to be done should be done or fussing sign things as if it's not about your sports, you know.

31:56 It's interesting that I hadn't really thought about this. But as you was talkin, I realized something I would recommend given this time in our country.

32:08 And what happened on January 6th at the Capitol that young men understand the foundation. Do you understand democracy and what's necessary for us as people to commit to to ensure that we make

32:31 Democracy in this country live up to I dream of what the company country could be and I think you know what my understanding is eliminate Civics a lot from school. And so I don't know.

32:48 How many young people really understand not the flipside of the Constitution the idea of democracy and I role and responsibilities to continue it and this is one of the things and I don't know how many people understand or really recognize this.

33:10 My experience has been that black people have always been committed to the dream of this country and they believe in that and that's why I believe they would never have done. What happened on January 6th. Right? Right, right, and we're not allowed to go in but we are still committed believe in this thing called democracy. Yeah, and then you charged one is that Dad needs to be stated over and over again and terms of building this country that we played in that very same building where the insurrection

34:10 Yeah, yeah, so in terms of civics focusing on Democracy in the light, that's something that we may want to suggest you to riches and those that oversee the Saturday program that that really needs to be held up by thinking of how things are going. I think that they'd going well if I were to to mention anything to the leadership, I would say and you know that it's me over there. He is calling it the other day. We need to focus on spirituality when you need to be an increase focus on quality.

35:02 We've not come you know, this far is 32 years without God you don't like being with us. She sorted out of steps. I ordered my steps when I put together the concept of you and me coming together and we use that scripture. Who by the way was a former nun show me a penny was the Instagram the social the cultural the physical and the spiritual I think so very very important. And that kind of Hawkins back to your brothers and sisters with a bond Mysteries and the like on K. Not only what they talkin about becoming a man, but I think they will also

36:02 About becoming a Godly Man and I think that that's what we need the whole Alliance in the African American Experience. I have a wonderful book that I go to family often and it's called what makes the great great and his written by a fellow by the name of Dennis Kimbro men and women who have become great, you know, they have become great in the variety of walks of life. So the templin is for the young Steve and I just think that whenever the time comes together always be the holding up one of those giants

37:00 What baby this is what they struggle with. This is what you might but you might encounter but you can do great things that you can do. Great Define what it means to be great. The king said anybody can be anybody can serve that I think we all that. I think that one of the addition to concerned black men what to do the creation of a new position in my position being a historian / archivist. What do you think?

37:58 Foot for the organization 32 years and we're not done yet going to say she's going to continue. So yes, I would a great week cuz you know when we were talking the other night, some people don't know how the organization got started the development of the D to program or Thong Thai Village Building Bridges, all of the things that were built coming out of the Paul Robeson stood in the role that you played in creating. So yes, I think we need to do that. Well, you know, I think I think one of those things and I thought it mattered pole and I'm glad that you mentioned it because I think that one of the things that we may want to suggest to

38:58 The president to Richard Harris is that there be a special called meeting where we can begin the origins of concerned black men and the fact that you have documents. I have this concept paper. There are some other things we have pictures. No other trip to Africa or things that we had that we can bring to the table and it would be the role of the archive is to bring this all together so that when you and I are no longer here that information will be with us.

39:44 You going to say one to say is that I really appreciate storycorps bringing us together to share this story because I think it is. It's a story worth sharing and people should know what Vision commitment perseverance mean cuz there are times that the organization struggled.

40:07 But I can let me to a vision to do something for young man.

40:12 Carried us through and people need to know that we're not helpless. We we can do things if we have a vision in a commitment.

40:23 You go, and I saved it hoe I saved you. Do, you know I'm so grateful for this opportunity to share and we all have stories in the beauty of dishes that as others on beating elections of concerned black men, so it's wonderful, and then when we're not our children and their children will do we try to make a difference and so I'm glad you know, that storycorps is gathering this information. So, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. I think we did. Thank you. I agree. I absolutely agree. Absolutely agree. I enjoyed our conversation Paul, and I'm going to give you a call if not later on today. I'll give you a call.

41:22 Whole lot tomorrow so we can continue on and then resolved continue conversation, right? I looked I look forward to that as well as well. Yeah. There we go.