Paul Gilmore and Brian Fresno

00:04 My name is Paul Gilmore. I'm 50 years old. Today's date is Sunday, February 23rd, 2020. We are in Fresno, California. I will be interviewing Brian Kenny Fresno who is a friend and I am a fan.

00:23 Oh and that's he's talking about me Brian Kenny Fresno and my age is I'm 56 years old and today's date is the February 23rd Sunday 2020. Happy Mardi Gras, and we're in Fresno California. And my interview partner is mr. Paul Gilmore Professor history at city college and he's been a friend of mine for years.

00:47 Well, well, okay, let's get started. Then I would like to go out with a Gilmore as friends musician. But also I what I want to do is is also be kind of a fan a little bit of this neighborhood and City Legend we've known each other for I would say 15 years. I was thinking that we were I Was preparing for this may be 16 years. We've known each other. So we've known each other is about right. Yeah and your music was kind of my introduction to Central California and Fresno the sort of under the under side or the underbelly, I don't know what you would call it the Forgotten part of California Fresno August this cultural thing. That is Fresno and I want to get into that at some point the connection between you this city your music and what you think about all day.

01:47 But I wanted to start with just reborn in Fresno know I was born in Oakland, California. How did you get here? My parents Grove?

01:58 Well, my father he was I should say my uncle is in charge of summer collection agencies around the state. And the one in Fresno was I was leaking money somehow and and my father being his in-law was was the only person that he could trust not being from Fresno because everybody knows the Fresno just full of liars liars and thieves and so that's when we move to Fresno. I'm in my dad took over on the office of preferred creditors up in the Del Webb Building on the fourth floor. Wow, and it turns out a years and years. Just a few years ago. I found out somebody that worked with my dad and that very office. How old were you when you moved here on for four, OK and you've been here ever ever since. Yeah, but I think that I'm kind of informed by the Berklee culture that we always went back to my grandmother live there and

02:57 I'm always been a lot of time in the Bay Area and stuff. So it's been kind of like my second home away from Fresno over the years. Okay, you wouldn't consider yourself an l a person. I know I've only gone to their for playing and stuff, but I'm never had any relatives or anything and that cultural element just never rubbed off on now, okay where they're musicians in your family or how did you know? No, I'm

03:26 Well, I'm in with the seventies and and that was music was really important to everybody back then and I started in the choir and the band in elementary school. And then I'm

03:41 But with other insurance with a snare drum and with the trombone and choir and stuff and then I discovered the guitar in the summer after the fifth grade was there's just something amazing about the guitar or was that just another instrument? Well, it was it was the voice of rock music and rock music is the meeting of Our Generation. So it really spoke to me and

04:07 Yeah, I couldn't get enough. Did you become sort of did you adopt a kind of besides the guitar besides the besides the music did you adopt other elements of that sort of?

04:20 Culture of I don't know rebellion of rock and roll music welcher. Yeah. Yeah. I got in trouble at school for ditching so much play my guitar and other things that kids in the seventies would get in trouble for you know Wars with my parents over certain things. But yeah, so there was always bad going on a picnic Berkeley the eye with this something that I just remember the other day how I remember seeing the National Guard in the street. I'm with with armored vehicles here like tank treads stuff. And this was the Free Speech movement. Yeah, you were in that you were a little kid then. Yeah, and so that the Reagan time right now, but but you got that sort of sense that something was happening. Yeah. I know did you get a sense that anything was happening in Fresno when you were a kid growing up or was it something that was a way?

05:20 I'm all of that.

05:22 Well, it all seems Blended together. Really I didn't feel the walls between the Bay Area the way I do now culturally at all, you know.

05:34 I'm not sure if I got more polarized or where I just became more aware of what it was really like did you did you ever consider not being a musician?

05:46 Yeah, yes. I'm about the time that I got out of high school and stuff. MTV was just head come on and I could see with what them the way that music was heading. I'd I saw no future for myself in that and that was what was popular so

06:05 I know I don't I maybe not consider not being a musician but just consider to never being successful because if that's what it took to be successful, then that was not interested in that. What were what were the things that you think that that that showed you that they're just this is not my idea of a good music should be or I will you know, just like repulsive commercial. Is that make you so sick didn't you listen to come on through all of that where you were you were like, okay music is going in This One Direction. But here's this person or hears this kind of music that I really like him that this is going to be something that I'm going to you know this. Well, yeah, I was I got more into jazz music from the rock that I started out with my parents listen to let the classical music go to and that I'm so huge influence on me as well.

07:05 But I'm the Jazz studies at city college that I took every class there. I think that I'm 17 times exaggerated but that was really exciting and all the Jazz things go. So I definitely spent the the the punk rockers like studying Jazz and bring into like a weird acapella music like The Bobs and stuff and they they they wrote absurd songs about really stupid things that made you giggle and that definitely rubbed off on me as well anything to do. Well, I guess one of the ways I was the way I was introduced to you is through a bar. I I kind of you know drink a lot of beer and and then I heard about you through the through the bar and then and then you started playing there a good bit. But but one of the things that I thought was quite unusual was the

08:05 The kind of guitar you play. It's wouldn't you wouldn't would you call it a guitar? Well, technically the name of it is but it's a different type of instrument is it's a color tapping instrument. I'm through with lots of legal stuff that went on with the Chapman Stick It was made by Emma Chapman. And so when other people started building instruments using that same type of play which time he didn't actually want any patents to it if there was some lawsuits that were filed and stuff and

08:41 Maybe I got a little off topic. I'm Thicket r a i think it's a super special guitar yet. So what you have a very clearly that it was not a guitar and that's why Stanley Jordan told me that when he was on Johnny Carson. He was pointedly asked are there other guitarist that played this way and he said, well not as far as I know which infuriated the whole Chapman Stick Community. We all thought he had heard you had talked with him on the phone. Actually. It's and he said there was no it is not a guitar. So but my instruments called the war guitar and it's a w a r r a man named Mark War built it and he gave it to me as a gift very honored and flattered and thank you Mark. Yeah, that's the one you still play go off the side. I know off the site yet. I'm probably referring to the

09:34 The narrowing of my instrument that made the high string slip off the side fall off in the industry. Maybe we should I just wanted to sort of you know, I haven't had a conversation with you about this kind of stuff at all. Really. I mean when we talk we talk about all kinds of other things and I love your music and all that but I've never I've never actually. I know your guitar because you sing a 9 minute song on the fight between Chapman and Mark Ward and it has a wonderful song. It's called Stick War by Gwar. Yes. Well. There are a lot of musicians in this town and then in our neighborhood, it's not exactly The Fresno's not exactly, you know a great Center of I guess it hasn't produced bands that that sort of make it in National League.

10:34 Much I suppose there are a couple but there's a lot of musicians and they're not exactly.

10:42 Interchangeable, they're all unique but I would say that you're utterly unique nobody. I don't think people cover your songs or really could the way I'm and I should say here. You know that I've seen I was trying to figure it out. I probably seen 60 of your shows. I probably seen you twice 60 times that goes Sunday afternoon shows for you know, several years there makes it all seem worthwhile. That makes me not just a fan that the entire word fanatic but how would you describe your music and your shows I can have an idea of how I would describe them. The music is it needs to be entertaining and the presentation that I developed is like in the face open of all this damn rock music that I mean, I'm done rock music and I embrace it fully and and but I had to be able to be

11:42 More entertaining than all of that. And so what I have tried to do is make the whole package something but I was just so completely overwhelming that that's the entertainment is undeniable, I guess or something it across all boundaries of seems like the idea is that I'm starting out with urban legend are folktales modern folk tales urban legends and epochs of the Absurd abbreviated that custom makes people think of Folk Music was so the presentation is really over the top and me. I have everybody sing along with the idea and we have a projector on but the screen so everybody can see the words and and the way that the other music is about friends and I have volunteers that that do that as well. I'm I'm saying this to The Listener pulsing the truth.

12:42 I've been the volunteer it several times and I remember I actually I committed a crime for you. I I stole out of 50 transparencies. I think when you were thinking about making new transparencies and I delivered them to you as I recall later. I am admitting to this crime. I don't know if you knew I just told us but I did have no idea what you're talk to. Go ahead. I'm sorry. This is part of the show that I really really like, you know the idea that you have the time. He has a Christmas thing that he did as done for many many years in Fresno decades and I completely stole that aspect of his Christmas for my show as I'm able to of anything that's entertaining. It's going in my show like David Copperfield if he'll he'll buy it from you or not, but it's going in the show and

13:40 So yeah, and it encourages volunteerism and everybody gets together on it's like a fireplace or a radio. It's really old timey and a lot of people have never even seen one before all the kids nowadays singing along. Maybe I'll come back to singing along there were a couple of moments that I've had with you that that it's strange to talk about them or think about them because they shouldn't be almost they shouldn't be such emotionally heavy not heavy but emotionally meaningful moments, but there are laughing laughing till I'm crying or but but singing loudly with 20, maybe 30 other people are the chords to older uglier woman, which is you wouldn't think that a song with those lyrics would make you young well up in

14:40 Solidarity with everybody in the room, but I'm looking for an older uglier woman and I yeah something heartfelt that everybody well.

15:02 I'm not sure if there's so many lyrics that's that song. It's it's kind of sad that I have a certain friend that inspired that song Point Anderson and he inspired the stoner detectives I went and then I'm big old big old but we I wrote at the Grand Canyon and then the goatsucker wouldn't I wrote on that? Same Yukon bike bicycle trip. We took our mountain bikes to Moab and around there and then there is also the inspiration for M4 older uglier with his his girlfriend's completely nuts over with and so I kind of wrote the song about that and then he told me as I was helping him move from this house that I'm he said, yeah from now on. I'm just looking for an older uglier.

16:02 Is there a is there a couple of are there lines that that you just particularly love that you had already myself and she attacked me to will fuck. Yeah, it's not something that you're supposed to even enjoy right but there's something about the way I don't know. Maybe we'll go. Yeah. Yeah, maybe it's the way that it's sung. There's so many things. It's about about Fresno along one of your more famous songs. I would say is the Bobby Salazar song. Is that a true story the story of of him being arrested for insurance fraud? It is all true except for the the part about the chupacabra burritos. I made that part up. They don't cost 666. They don't have one they do.

17:02 What sort of monster was made from I interviewed him one time? I'm not on the similar to this and that and he said

17:11 Brontosaurus at the dinosaur Bobby. But anyway, Bobby did arrange to have his his truck stolen and it was part of the folklore of Fresno and I and then he got static business leader of the year that the following couple months later, I think

17:29 See, this is the third president was famous for a car that meth labs & chop shops. And and that's what Paul is about to get around 2, but I'm going to beat him to it is out of sight and people from all over the country. They call me today to the show me where they send me pictures of I sound like Donald Trump there for the second. They call me. I just had some salsa and Wellington, but I wanted to say that I only toward the nation for 9 years and I did not play from in Fresno. I was banned for all intensive purposes from performing here. And so I only took over the country and tried to make a name for myself because as you said nobody ever makes it out of here and

18:20 And that was a different that was the place to be was anywhere else in Fresno, and I'm so when I came back to Fresno as you said about Audis Olympic Tavern, that was a reason that I broke the band and I'll cuz I wanted to play in that room again until I felt like that was me and you have a song that you sing to the tune of the the national anthem called previous business do the same building do Fred's. Yeah. So this is something that I think is kind of true of a lot of cities in this country. But because we're in Fresno, we we talked about it as a Fresno thing, but I I call it the Fresno Vortex or the idea that you you try to leave but it keeps sucking you back in and there's this what you just mentioned you traveled.

19:15 Around four years we can play elsewhere but then always bringing brought back here like to add that I have never moved away from Fresno for those very reasons. I thought it as a perfect face between Los Angeles and San Francisco and the cost of living here is super expensive know. I'm kind of joking. It's a it's a great place to have a base of operations and a great place to get out of and so I'm you can practice here and you can spend all the time that you need doing that without having to have 17 jobs that keep you from being able to practice in the first place and I'm used to be a musical culture here with people and they had bands that wrote songs and recorded them and at least played around and maybe tried to get out and make you don't make it big and I see that culture is really gone away has a baby sister my age group. What what part of that? I mean what what's a seneschal for a culture like that? Cuz it used to sort of existing for asthmatic more music venues and they've all been the whole thing of

20:15 I have been like everywhere the music industry is everywhere and and there are bands out of Fresno. Let's not forget that he just got written up and rolling stoned doing European tours of stuff immediately damn right of the gate. All right about that a lot when I used to think of Baraboo is as an unalloyed ideal Place beautiful place, but then they hit the news recently on Twitter for about 5 seconds because the high school boys all got, you know, my picture taken of them getting a Nazi Nazi salute photo. I did not see that coming. Yeah.

21:06 Well, it was it was a disappointment very disappointing to me, but it made me realize that I'm kind of a HomeTown Nationalist and I consider myself a Fresno Nationalist and I'm from here. Now. I've been here for 19 years. Your flag after that incident and I'm still Baraboo Baraboo needs to be fought for it's a little tiny town. But but I wonder if you see yourself is kind of like a Fresno patriot say it that way because you have you have several songs dealing with Fresno slogans attempts to make Fresno something more than it is these these pathetic Fresno smile when you say that? Yeah the slogans

22:00 This town of there's something about it that's is attractive rice magic so that I took Town. What what do you think it is because there are so many awful things that you even think about in your songs, but at the same time there's something about it. Well, they're awful things that happened on everywhere really end and Fresno. I see is a reflection of its kind of like a universal and that anything that happens in Fresno happens everywhere else and everything happens everywhere else kind of happens in Fresno some scale and I'm so you'll be able to discern to Joy filter out that joy and entertainment from watching it all spiral salad or whatever. I'm Pro Fresno and I am not really anti Frozen real people and sometimes think that I am never actually been sure whether I was Pro or con.

23:00 I do try and scare people away from moving here public service.

23:12 Well, I I talk about the crime rate and all the gangs are the snoo Fresno blue song on the new album. Yeah. Yeah, that's a central theme of holy triumvirate of activity. When I first moved here. I I heard that it was you on this incredible car theft place. I thankfully haven't had my car stolen but but my my wife and I have a roommate Russell and Scar must be easy to steal to 1980s Toyota of some kind and that it's multiple times. It's been stolen three times and he had to sit there for 12 hours waiting for the cops to show up and they never did so he drove it home and then they told him all you shouldn't have done that we would have respite.

24:09 This is a kind of friends. It is a truly Fresno kind of kind of thing you go looking for your own car. But then Brian Kenny Fresno.

24:23 Well, that's a tough title to live up to it was a time when when Fresno was dubbed as a word by MTV to be something really backwards and really dumb and MTV as I told you was one of the leading factors in me. I'm deciding that there wasn't a future for me in Fresno. I'm sorry in in music and I was kind of like a challenge because I I knew that I had something special bet you do. Like I said about all those bands. I'm at my slogan for quite some time as I will take on all opposing bands with Fresno tight around my neck. And so for MTV to be trying to label Fresno is I'm cool or something. I just like, okay. I'm really going by this and as a title, I was actually I went by the name Brian Kenny Fresno for many many years before it was my the name of my show. I was named that buy some children in the Bay Area.

25:23 Okay, when I would call my friend it was on the phone. I always I always use you as an example of the kind of thing that people outside of Fresno admittedly kind of underground worlds know about one of the first times I saw you was up in Berkeley at the Starry Plough and there were a number of people they're singing along all the songs. They didn't need to have the transparency. They they knew they they knew what to do with the Holy Chalice of raisins that you would end around a very happiest man. I always say that in the ICU was almost like the The Underground Gardens. Another thing that is just an amazing thing about Fresno. That is your CC. I'm now gushing a little you know with my fandom, but the Underground Gardens is another thing I talk to my students the other day. I have 200 students in one class and I

26:23 How many of you been to the Underground Gardens maybe a dozen rated most people have never even heard of it. And here's this wonderful thing. That's under the radar Weather Underground Gardens. It's an Italian immigrant moved here in the 1920s. Wanted to buy a wanted to get into field Beyond making an orchard bought land that had was called hardpan where it's basically cement 3 feet down until you have to use a pickaxe or Dynamite to break up the soil and he had been a Subway Digger in New York-New York and so he went down and he has incredible structures. I'm underneath the ground and in Fresno on super hot in the summer time with brilliant and he has trees that poke out from the ground up from underneath the ground and they have their grafted and they have three layers of the fruit different types of fruit.

27:23 Just beautiful and you can walk if you walk on the surface, you could pick the orange at your hip because the top of the tree is right there on the surface and he's any it you planted the trees at 10 feet underground in a 12 feet underground. And so they have a much longer season of ripening and and it's just a beautiful beautiful place and they called him the mole man and I dug Tunnels for 40 years and just it's just a fascinating little world and I think here's an alternative world that could have existed and doesn't yeah, we all should have gone underground in Fresno.

28:06 Speaking of summer time and heat you did a summer solstice show. When what year was that? 2009 2009. So that was 11 years ago now. Yeah, it was a 12-hour Marathon that I didn't I'm wearing the shoe. Actually. I did put my foot to sleep during the thing. I recycle it out but I wore out my other left. I'm wearing a shot of Fresno right now. Just by the way. I'm sorry about the smell you guys which is your your cape and I wear it for all of my shows. Sometimes it even gets washed, but it's been awhile. I can tell we're in this Airstream trailer Fresno. So anyway, I'm so yeah summertime in Fresno's are real experience. Another reason I would discourage you folks from moving here.

29:03 We don't have any air conditioning either no freezes freezes. It's all right, so you had to take time off after 8 months off. Yeah. How does that actually I think I did a tour directly afterwards and sealed in the injury. And then I was told that you need to take you need to rest it or it'll never get rid of this problem. Is that that seems pretty bad. I mean you did a full 12 hours. You took what 30-minute break maybe? No, I went out and change my shoe. And that was your Father's Day Father's Day Father's Day. Okay, they're one of the things that I like about music at a

30:03 Far beyond small place and and and your music is you get this sort of feeling that maybe people get every everywhere but I don't know there's there were moments where you had a real sense of solidarity with everybody in the room. I mean, maybe I'm coming back to something that we've already talked about. But but there's just this wonderful feeling of camaraderie that happened around 11:30 that night as we were nearing the end people they're singing along with my dog my truck Madera or something like that. I forget exactly what it was, but do you have a moment that that you're trying to get or if you try to get it you can't get it. So well, I'm know those those moments when I'm singing along. Those are the moments that I'm looking for and whatever one's paying attention and no one's looking at their cell phone.

30:58 That's maybe they're picking some footage or something. I don't really mind that these days as much as I used to but I'm just the magic of being absorbed in it's really hard to describe magic, but it's used to come it's hard to find in Fresno actually because

31:21 You know that that syndrome I've often compare myself to Jesus and Jesus was not appreciated his phone if you know, you know, nobody can really it's like he's just that Brian Kenny guy, which I find really annoying when you've got it, but I'm

31:49 Yeah, I'm ended in other cities of stuff that people accept that the universality of Fresno more so than in Fresno. Fresno the real complex about itself and that's why everyone feels that they have to move away to be the the person that they want to become when in fact it's with them that potential is with them all the time anywhere they go and you could always meet somewhere else and they call the same mistakes, but I encourage people to move away from Fresno to also because my artist musician friends that have done that I'm in there and there's nothing for them here. That's it's changing but there's not a lot of opportunity. So I'm there. Why is to get I don't know a lot of people come back like you say the magnetic quality in the cheap rent and all of their good friends and the lack of traffic.

32:42 I'm being able to do it to live your life without having to deal with a lot of stupid stuff.

32:48 I feel like it's my my place one of the things that that I think helps those building, you know, what kind of community I live in this little neighborhood you live. I got a slightly different neighborhood. But you're you're a person of the Tower District this little tiny neighborhood with in Fresno just a cultural Jewel of the cultural center of Fresno, but there's things that go on we just got done with the the Mardi Gras parade, but there are other kinds of moments like this your wife Felix. She helps to build those things. Does she not I mean what's between what you're doing and what she does kind of, you know thread community-oriented. Yeah, but Felix runs it at the vineyard farmers market and what you sent for 16 years now and that's a really community-based thing.

33:48 Well, but I'm sure what's involved with the Tower District Market Committee and an organized that prayed for 21 years. So we've always been involved with that and some of the other events in the tower district free concerts and stuff for the neighbors and stuff. Things that used to be a big guy Reggae Festival in the Father's Day blue stuff from but I digress to what would you say? I mean it was there. Was there a moment where you said? All right screw it. I'm not going to do this anymore or or did you have you ever had that sort of crisis of everyday Paul everyday, you know CDs are antiques now. I have some in my truck. Would you like to buy?

34:48 What kind of wonderful on 110 and you've got a new song? Resno my new album the future is Fresno. I borrow it from somebody around here. It's got some marketing campaign. But anyway, I'm very excited about that recording it since May 31st of last year. I'm like like it was a job. The amount of hours have been putting it on. It's insane. I'm kind of embarrassed but whatever you into some sort of pitch or something, but are there new songs on there that you've no? Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're all new songs are never as you recall. It was the hardest song ever. And when you first heard he said that was a real chore to listen to me.

35:48 It was a real chore for me to play. I mean it is it's so hard at this new technique. I developed the cross playing the bass and the guitar with my left hand. I wouldn't talk about the bass strings in 7 guitar strings music and plays independently, so my base and let him play space and chords in my right hand plays guitar chords and Melody and then I play drums with my feet and then we're singing stuff and then we're making Loops of all of those things out together pass of any particular thing. I'm catching a lot of both sound and your questions about the crisis of confidence that kind of you but yeah. Yeah, and the whole thing is like, you know money is not in music and recordings. I'm it's all in the live performances and stuff, but people don't like to go out to buy performs as much under in Fresno.

36:48 Kenney and touring so expensive so my touring models really been eviscerated buy a lot of things that cost of gas and just do live music model. I'm all club's closing and people not buying CDs That's All Digital streaming now and everybody knows that doesn't pay anything, but I'm hopefully we're going to be a do a big tour after the album and hopefully I've got all of America behind us. I emailed one of the one of the most well one of the great things I think about about local music or music live music is why I've always been amazed at how much how much incredible Talent there is out there that that's in you know, you go to a town. I live in Atlanta. There was an enormous amount of time up there. I lived in Milwaukee. There was a lot of an enormous amount of talent there there. I lived lived in Fresno and there's all this talent that and I feel like I've got this embarrassment of riches constantly coming at me.

37:48 Young people with real serious skill and then and then, you know the folks don't even want to pay five bucks set for a cover charge. Yeah that that is kind of the problem and that other restaurants that have live music or all based on that covers stuff like that and

38:08 You know what? I don't know if ending on this note is is a good note ending on this note is a good thing to do because it seems kind of down and everything about the impossibility are close to and possibility of making a fortune or or what would you say is is some one thing you would like to tell I hate to be a cliche about it. But what's one thing you would like to tell the world about about yourself that you know, somebody a hundred years from now. I might say

38:47 Why would I end up about myself? I would just say to them, but don't give up and and keep evolving and keep changing what you're doing and ever-evolving you so many times before. I thought that what I was doing bench should have been true. Got me famous or rich or something because it was so something but now I see I was just even then rubbing two sticks together. Like I am now a year from now, I hope to be able to say the same thing. All right. Well, I think that is the end of our interview awful get tonight in fourth page of questions. Thank you Paul 40 minutes Sprint. Thank you. Thank you.