Paul T. and Robert Mulheran

[00:00] PAUL T.: I'm 49 years old. Today's date is December 3, 2020. I am in Olathe, Kansas. My partner is Robert and he is my first, my one small step conversation partner.

[00:17] ROBERT MULHEARN: And Robert, Hi, I'm Robert Mulhearn and I'm in Rose Hill, Kansas. I am 57 years old and Paul is my one step partner.

[00:30] SPEAKER C: One small step conversation.

[00:33] ROBERT MULHEARN: There you go.

[00:36] SPEAKER C: Okay, go ahead, Paul.

[00:38] PAUL T.: For the question, why did I want to do this interview today? I would like. Do I ask this of Robert?

[00:44] SPEAKER C: I'm sorry. Yes, ask this to Robert.

[00:46] PAUL T.: Okay. Robert, why did you want to do this interview today?

[00:50] ROBERT MULHEARN: The country seems to be somewhat divided nowadays and more so than probably any time I can remember in my lifetime. So I'm curious where the middle ground has gone in kind of our country, you know, because all you hear about is the extremes on either side. So I'm really curious about why the middle ground isn't as vocal as it used to be.

[01:20] PAUL T.: Here. Here is that same question to me. Then it is. Okay, Yeah, I came because I too agree with that statement. But I basically feel like I used to talk politics or talk policy or talk things that were happening in the country with people. My parents and grandparents would talk over the kitchen table about this and I don't think anybody's talking anymore. We're mostly just shouting at each other. And because of the shouting, I think a lot of things get forgotten or missed about how people's lives are being affected by a number of issues related to the economy, the pandemic, healthcare, schooling, lots of different things, lots of issues. Instead of talking about the issues, we basically just shout at each other. And it's a big negative thing then where I think very little gets achieved in doing that. So that I, I wanted, after the last couple of months, I wanted to. To think about and learn how to come back and talk with people about things going on in the country. Because I think we've kind of forgotten how to do that.

[02:32] ROBERT MULHEARN: You're here.

[02:35] PAUL T.: Okay. Okay, Robert, read or I guess it will be read for you. Read my bio. Oh, no, I can read Robert's bio. Yeah, I apologize. Robert, here's your bio. I have served in government for over 25 years, much of it in Washington. I moved to Wichita to try to distance myself from Uncle Sam. I am a libertarian and I'm tired of the harm political parties and systemic corruption have done to our country.

[03:06] SPEAKER C: Yes, what about that bio? Would you like to know more about.

[03:11] PAUL T.: Paul, basically defining libertarianism? But a question that I have is, do you think that corporate corruption or corporate interests are any better or worse than the government or political parties or the governmental efforts that recently.

[03:37] ROBERT MULHEARN: I think they're worse mostly because of. I'm trying to think of a Supreme Court case.

[03:45] PAUL T.: United Citizens United.

[03:48] ROBERT MULHEARN: That's the one. Yeah.

[03:49] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[03:50] ROBERT MULHEARN: And I think that has really twisted the realm of money and politics.

[03:58] PAUL T.: And did you see that when you were in Washington that that was beginning to be toxic or something?

[04:05] ROBERT MULHEARN: No, not when I was there. I really saw it after I left Washington D.C.

[04:13] PAUL T.: Okay. And what tired you out most about.

[04:15] ROBERT MULHEARN: Being in D.C. there's two things. One, you see who runs the government and it's not who you really think is running the government, you know, because in any organization, you know, it's the administrative clerks, it's the administrative assistance. It's a low level part of government that really keeps it humming. And in Washington D.C. the only job pool you have for those positions, the only way you're going to get a low level GS4 or 5 or 6 to actually live in DC is that they've lived there all along. And that's a very limited pool both in diversity and diversity of thought.

[05:08] PAUL T.: Sure.

[05:13] SPEAKER C: Okay. Now this is Paul's bio. I'll go ahead and read this. My name is Paul and I live in Kansas. I grew up in North Dakota, which was a big life event in learning to handle cold weather, isolation and poverty. I also learned the importance of family. After high school I moved away for college. I became one of the experts my family distrusted so much, which has brought me financial benefits and a standard of living I could only have dreamt about in my youth, but at a cost to my family relationships, many of whom have a different perspective than me. So, Robert, what would you like to ask to know more about.

[05:53] ROBERT MULHEARN: I have lived four years in North Dakota. I know what cold is now. Yes, I lived in Minot for long brutal years. Oh my.

[06:06] PAUL T.: That's about an hour from where I grew up.

[06:08] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah, but. But I'm curious, both in Kansas, but even more so in North Dakota, people have a tendency towards self reliance, you know, just in general in rural America than we do in. Well really on either coasts or any big city for that fact is that.

[06:31] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[06:31] ROBERT MULHEARN: Do you still hold that self reliance as an important part of American creed?

[06:40] PAUL T.: To a large extent. But I think it's been tempered especially since I've become or I've lived more in the city. I live in the Kansas City area and I, and I say that in terms of things like doctors or lawyers or people who are good at certain things, you know, instead of. I mean, I have family stories of people who maybe had a toothache and would wait months or years, I mean, long time to go get something fixed. And there's something to be said for just, you know, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and being tough and soldiering through an experience. There's also something to be said about getting help when you need it, either physically or mentally. You know, going to talk to somebody about the stress that you're having in your farm and making your payments on your equipment, whatever, something. Or going to get a tooth pulled or going to get something looked at by a doctor. Because from my family history and my. The people around me, you wait too long until you handle issues that, you know, and so until they become a crisis. And then basically it becomes much more dire that, you know, you be. You basically are very individualistic, but almost at the cost of your own. Well being your own life. Does that answer?

[08:07] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah, it sure does. Thank you. And then you said you became one of the experts at your family kind of disdain. Can I ask, what is that expertise?

[08:21] PAUL T.: So I went away to college and I got some skill in statistics, and I now work in higher education and analytics and administration, basically trying to chart a path for a large university in the area. And some of those skills are not ones that come easily to people from rural areas, especially rural schools that are, I would say, underfunded. My math education was probably really bad, and not just math education, but just. I feel like I had to catch up later on in life. And I was fortunate to have some people who helped me and pushed me along and gave me some opportunities to learn certain things and. But not everybody in my communities that I came from has that opportunity, so.

[09:19] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah. Thank you.

[09:22] PAUL T.: Yeah. Okay, Robert, here's the next question. Who has been the most influential person in your life and what did they teach you?

[09:33] ROBERT MULHEARN: By far, I would have to say it's my mother. My mother grew up as a teenager in Nazi Germany. Her family had always been closely tied to the Catholic Church. Fact, she lived just a couple blocks away from a cathedral there in. In Germany. And the love that she had for America up to the day she died, it was just amazing. And, you know, she never took any of the freedoms we have for granted. And I try to look at that every day because I think one of the problems we have is people don't understand what we have. You know, I've been fortunate enough to. Well, or unfortunate enough to deploy to two wars and in the Middle east. And, you Know, to see what the third world lives like. And yeah, I don't. I think more Americans need to see that, to appreciate what we have.

[10:43] PAUL T.: I agree.

[10:44] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah. And then Paul, in your life, who's been the most influential person for you?

[10:53] PAUL T.: I'd have to say my grandmother. When my brother and I were very young, we were taken to my grandparents house and we spent much time with them early on in life. And I think I just, I just really. My grandparents played a huge role. And like your mother, they're German. My heritage is German, but they are called Germans from Russia. So basically they went from Germany to Russia or the Ukraine to farm for three or four or five generations and they got some privileges to do that, like religious freedom and land. And they were not conscripted into the SARS army, the Russian army. But then after Catherine the Great, who was a German princess, died, they restricted those privileges and they then began conscripted, conscripting people into the army, which from what I understand is mostly a death sentence. And so a lot of people moved to the United States, mostly the Midwest here. And I too feel like my grandparents never took advantage the freedoms and the opportunities that they had, which, you know, even just to raise their kids the way they wanted or have a successful farm or, you know, live in peace without being harassed by some, you know, the authorities, I guess. And so, yeah, and so they, I think they never took advantage of that either, or they didn't take it for granted. But I think the thing that I got from my grandmother especially was sort of an unconditional love for family in that you could be on the different side of the political aisle. You could be up or down in the social order, you could be black, brown, whatever color. And she had an acceptance, especially at the end of her life, I would say, of people at least that I got. Maybe other people saw things differently, but I think she had an acceptance of people that if you think of, in our world of valuing elders and valuing the perspective of elders and people who have lived through a lot and survived and still accept other people and don't harbor anger or animosity, that's something I aspire to and I think I learned that from her. Okay, next question. Could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values?

[13:40] ROBERT MULHEARN: Sure. Financially I'm conservative. I think a smaller government is by far better. But I also am pretty liberal thinking that the government has, you know, morality is not a realm the government should be in, nor should it be trying to legislate against anything like that. So and that's also kind of the premise for a libertarian, which early on you asked why I thought I was kind of a libertarian. So. Yeah, it's kind of the middle ground between both parties. We're liberal on some, but conservative in other areas.

[14:22] PAUL T.: Sure.

[14:22] ROBERT MULHEARN: Does that answer your question?

[14:25] PAUL T.: I think so.

[14:27] ROBERT MULHEARN: Okay. I'll say one other thing too, though. I think the power of America comes in three forms. That's our military might, our diplomatic might, and our economic might. And generally, we have, in my lifetime, swung from using our economic might to achieve our goals to just relying on the military might. And we have just trashed our diplomatic corps, and we have no idea how to do diplomacy anymore. All right, Paul, same question to you.

[15:11] PAUL T.: Yeah, I'd say I'm fiscally or financially conservative. I'm kind of the, you know, child of a farming background where you basically make do with whatever you have in the cupboard at the time. Right. And, yeah, I do that. I think socially I'm very liberal, though, and here's where I have probably the most arguments with some of the people on other sides of the political aisle is diversity. And, of course, I work for a large university. You know, ethnic diversity, gender diversity, I think deserves a place. And equality among people from various backgrounds I think has a place in this country. In fact, I think it's written into the fabric of this country with us leaving monarchy and having all people are created equal. Right. I think it's in our language, and I think that people from underrepresented groups or in higher ed, a lot of times we call them underrepresented groups who maybe need a little extra help to get up and be a success and have a successful career and a family life and job. I think there's a place in investing in that. And so that's where I see sort of the realm of government is helping provide sort of a level playing field as much as possible so that people who don't have necessarily a fair shot can get. Can get a shot at a successful life. So that's. That's, you know, so socially, I'm pretty accepting of people with different ethnic identities, gender identities, things like that. And. And kind of what, you know, like to think of this country as is a level playing field, at least more so than maybe other places.

[17:03] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah. Can I dive into that because.

[17:08] PAUL T.: Yeah, please do.

[17:09] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah. You're in education. And I think one of the main faults with America lies in the education system. You know, of all the random ways to do education, you know, doing education by zip code doesn't seem to be very effective or efficient.

[17:31] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[17:32] ROBERT MULHEARN: Across the board. I mean, between inner cities and suburbs, between cities and rural, nothing that seems to serve the better needs of the students.

[17:44] PAUL T.: Yeah. And when property taxes are paying for the bill. Not all, but a lot of it. You have big discrepancies.

[17:53] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yes. And I've lived in. I've lived in the two states with the lowest amount of dollars per student.

[18:02] PAUL T.: Wow.

[18:03] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah. And as well as my kids went to inner city school in D.C. and it's just, you know, you say the government's role is to kind of level that. Yeah. That's also one of the great failings, I think, of our government.

[18:20] PAUL T.: I agree.

[18:21] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah.

[18:22] PAUL T.: Can I ask.

[18:23] ROBERT MULHEARN: Oh, go ahead.

[18:24] PAUL T.: Do you think education is a national security question? That if we are going to defend this country, we need to have educated people, like, people good in certain fields, like engineering and technology. Otherwise, we're just. Our missiles are not going to be as good as the other missiles. And we're going to. I mean, I fear that, you know, we. Because we so dis. We've disinvested.

[18:46] ROBERT MULHEARN: De.

[18:46] PAUL T.: Invested in education for so long that I don't. Do you think. I guess maybe I led that a bit, but do you think it's a national security question?

[18:54] ROBERT MULHEARN: I do. You know, and I've spent my entire year national security and. Hold on a second. Let me get a call. Coming. Yeah, it really is. But getting back to more of the point, though, is I think we've. I don't even know how to put it. We've. We've put too much emphasis on standardization within schools where we want everyone to be, you know, an engineer or a physicist or, you know.

[19:28] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[19:29] ROBERT MULHEARN: At the. You know, and not everyone is good in the, you know, the hard science and the math.

[19:36] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[19:37] ROBERT MULHEARN: So we seem to leave a good part of the population behind, you know, those that are more keen towards the arts.

[19:45] PAUL T.: Yes.

[19:47] ROBERT MULHEARN: You know, so. Yeah.

[19:51] PAUL T.: Yeah, I hear you. I have a liberal arts background, and I. And I love the arts a lot. I took classes I probably didn't really need, but I loved.

[20:03] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah, it's okay. And can I ask what large university?

[20:13] PAUL T.: Ku.

[20:15] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah, that's where my liberal arts degree is from, so I figured.

[20:18] PAUL T.: Okay, sure.

[20:21] ROBERT MULHEARN: And my volume almost went down. Can you still hear me? Fine.

[20:27] PAUL T.: You cut out a little bit, but it's better now.

[20:30] ROBERT MULHEARN: Okay.

[20:34] PAUL T.: Yep, I can hear you now.

[20:36] ROBERT MULHEARN: Okay. I have a hard time hearing you, so you'll need to speak up.

[20:40] PAUL T.: Okay. Are we ready for the next question or do we.

[20:51] SPEAKER C: Okay, those are all of the introductory questions. But I just put an optional question in there if you're interested in that. Or you can just kind of fly free.

[21:00] PAUL T.: Robert, if you want to fly free, great. Otherwise I'll ask this question.

[21:04] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah, go and ask away.

[21:05] PAUL T.: Okay. Do you ever feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you, I. E. By people from the other side of the aisle? And if so, how so?

[21:18] ROBERT MULHEARN: I do. And really, if you look at the parties, you know, you take. Our parties are so much one issue parties. You take abortion, for instance. And if you're in the middle ground, you know, there is no, you know, you have no friends. It seems like, you know, you've got to be in extreme either as a politician or just a normal citizen on those kinds of issues. You know, gun control, you know, those hot button issues.

[21:51] PAUL T.: Right.

[21:52] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah. And again, you feel like, do you.

[21:56] PAUL T.: Feel like that turns off people who are searching for the middle? I mean, I, I personally feel turned off by politics then. But do you, do you think that's common and for many people.

[22:05] ROBERT MULHEARN: Oh, very much so. And I think what a lot of people don't realize is if you take the Republicans and say they are successful in abolishing abortion, you know, and you cannot, you can never uninvolve. Well, that is their primary go to button for votes. Why would they ever get rid of that?

[22:32] PAUL T.: Right.

[22:33] ROBERT MULHEARN: You know, and you can look at the Democrats on the pro choice, you know, the politicians are not going to work real hard to, to correct those issues because they're, you know, voters. Depends on that issue being there.

[22:51] PAUL T.: Right, right.

[22:55] ROBERT MULHEARN: Okay. Paul, what do you think?

[23:00] PAUL T.: I feel misunderstood, but one of my tactics recently. Well, in the last few months, I think especially leading up to the election, is just to keep my opinion to myself, which is probably not healthy either. That and I got involved in a campaign and I did some canvassing, like putting materials out on doorsteps and stuff. Because, Because I felt that was a way to act instead of just talk. But I feel like, yeah, I just mostly just keep quiet. And that's actually one of the goals of me doing something like this is to start trying to understand again or talk a little bit more about it instead of just keeping quiet.

[23:46] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah, And I agree. I think we definitely need more involvement at the local level. You know, I think the more people actually work on a campaign, whether stuffing envelopes or dropping stuff off the doors and stuff, you know, they have a, you know, a foot in a fight kind of thing.

[24:08] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[24:09] ROBERT MULHEARN: So, but you know, the vast. The other thing that's real disheartening is you know, even this election where we had, you know, great vote or turnout, still, the I did not vote, you know, was the biggest pool of people. They, you know, I don't know how to get those folks excited about what's happening to them.

[24:34] PAUL T.: Right. I think if you figured that out, you'd have a magic touch.

[24:40] ROBERT MULHEARN: Exactly. So.

[24:45] PAUL T.: Yeah, there's some people. I just don't talk about politics with some of my family. But, but, but that's. Yeah. Maybe in a year or so it'll be better. Maybe. I kind of think that things happen in waves or cycles and that this last six months or three months or a year was particularly hard, especially with people in the, you know, pandemic. People are afraid of getting Covid or afraid of losing their jobs or lots of things. It's been particularly stressful to a lot of people, which has not made it easy to have conversations. But there may be opportunities in the future to talk more about this. I don't know if you agree.

[25:39] ROBERT MULHEARN: I missed that last part, Paul.

[25:41] PAUL T.: Or do you kind of agree that maybe that things might get better to talk about these things or.

[25:49] ROBERT MULHEARN: I don't see it happening.

[25:51] PAUL T.: Okay.

[25:54] ROBERT MULHEARN: And I think what we saw with this election, you know, it was supposed to be like a blue wave and, you know, the Democrats were supposed to pick up, you know, 20 to 30 seats in the House, state houses, and none of that material.

[26:11] PAUL T.: Right.

[26:12] ROBERT MULHEARN: So I have a feeling America kind of likes our government being inefficient with the houses divided. And as long as that's the case, you know, it's really hard for our government to be effective or do anything.

[26:28] PAUL T.: Right.

[26:28] ROBERT MULHEARN: And I think that's become the norm. We've seen over our lifetime that Congress has pretty much given away all its power, you know, to the administrative side of the government and to the president.

[26:40] PAUL T.: Right. I would. Yeah, I think I agree. I don't know. I kind of hope not, but I think I probably, realistically. Yeah, I'd agree with that.

[26:59] ROBERT MULHEARN: You know, and as long as we're divided without. And we haven't had a strong leader in a long while. I think so. In fact, I don't think we've had any charismatic politicians for a very long time now. The Democrats have a few that are very, you know, charismatic.

[27:24] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[27:25] ROBERT MULHEARN: But the, the Republican side, you know, take prison Trump out of the equation. There's no bright shining future, you know, from a voice perspective in that party.

[27:37] PAUL T.: Right. I had a question, so. So something that concerns me and I'll be interested in your opinion because of your background it sounds like. But when I was in elementary school, there was a song called United We Stand, Divided we fall. Do you think because we're divided government that makes us even more vulnerable to international pressures?

[28:03] ROBERT MULHEARN: I don't. You know, the country's had a divided, you know, government for, for so long. And I mean, even four years ago when the Republicans controlled, you know, all three branches of government, well, we still weren't all that affected.

[28:20] PAUL T.: Right.

[28:21] ROBERT MULHEARN: So I don't think that's it. But I think the divisions, I don't know, deeper than the politics, you know, because you probably heard the same kinds of things, you know, we're on the brink of a civil war, you know.

[28:39] PAUL T.: Right.

[28:40] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah. And I don't see that. I think what I see is politicians over many, many, many years using scare tactics that they have made one American citizen afraid of their neighbors.

[28:57] PAUL T.: Right.

[28:58] ROBERT MULHEARN: You know, and that is one of the things my mom always reminded me of growing up in Nazi Germany because that was the tactic that most proletarian regimes had used. You know, when I get your neighbor.

[29:12] PAUL T.: Right.

[29:13] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah.

[29:14] PAUL T.: So that is scary.

[29:16] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah. So it's, you know, it's not a broad scale, you know, divided will fall. It's, it's neighbor versus neighbor until we get out, start talking to each other on the driveway or the sidewalk, you know, because America is a great place. It really is.

[29:35] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[29:35] ROBERT MULHEARN: People, but you sure can't tell that watching television. And I have to, I don't watch television. You know, 30 minutes, maybe a month on TV.

[29:48] PAUL T.: Okay. Well I, I have made it a point not to watch as much.

[29:56] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah. And, and the other thing too, and I hit it first on in that self reliance because in Washington D.C. and cities across America, our workforce has changed. We have a cubicle workforce that is used to convenience. So when they talk about, say, affordable health care, and you mentioned it, in rural America, you know, affordable health care is almost non existent.

[30:29] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[30:30] ROBERT MULHEARN: And I don't think Americans want affordable health care. I had that in the military and it was lousy. I think what we want is quality health care.

[30:40] PAUL T.: Right.

[30:40] ROBERT MULHEARN: We want doctors that don't kill us by giving us the wrong prescriptions, you know. Right. But this cubicle workforce is almost an entitlement based work force. You know, it. We've had the welfare state, you know, for a very long time, but this is kind of a new kind of welfare state. It's a, it's a convenient state, you know, affordable health care. When you can walk out your cube, go down the street and you've got, you know, six Docs in a box lined up for you is one thing, but living in rural North Dakota or Kansas, you know, it's a whole different thing.

[31:17] PAUL T.: Yep.

[31:18] ROBERT MULHEARN: So I think that rural and urban divine may. May come to my head, you know, especially whenever you talked about tweaking the electoral college. Yeah. That was kind of the balance that was done by our. Our forefathers there.

[31:36] PAUL T.: Yep.

[31:37] ROBERT MULHEARN: So what are your thoughts?

[31:44] PAUL T.: Yeah, I think the rural urban divide is coming to a head, but, you know, I find it interesting. I agree. Quality healthcare is a desire by many people because they don't want to go to somebody who will, you know, prescribe something by mistake, and you end up suffering for it. You know, that entitlement culture, it's weird because being in education, I spent pretty much my whole career trying to get to a certain point. Right. I mean, I. It's weird because I'm probably doing better than many people in the country, but I still don't feel that financially secure. I mean, you know, I have a mortgage. I have two kids who are going to be going to college in a little while. I look at the bills coming up and today and the next few years, and I'm like, okay, I feel like I'm just treading water, and that's better than sinking. I tell my wife this all the time when we look at our bills. It's better than sinking. But, you know, if somebody were to come and take this away from me, what I feel like I've achieved, that would hurt, too. I mean, I feel like I'm entitled to some sort of quality of life because I've put in all this work to get a higher education. And granted, I had a lot of opportunities to do that, too, but I've put a lot of hard work into this career, and so why shouldn't I get some of the benefits of it, too? Right? But at the same time, I realized that they're especially coming from a rural area. There were many people who didn't even have the opportunity to get to this point. Right. And that's where I kind of feel like I'm both. I feel both entitled and also very giving of my time and effort to people who are trying to better their lives in a little, you know, a little bit of a way, because I feel like I. I'm more than willing to help teach and mentor and give back to people who. Who didn't have as many opportunities as I did anyway, so. So entitlement for me is. Is a. Is a hard thing because I feel like I deserve certain Things, but at the same time, I feel like I give a lot, too. I don't know if that makes sense.

[33:56] ROBERT MULHEARN: It does, yes.

[34:01] PAUL T.: So with your career, do you feel like you were given a path that was not open to many people?

[34:08] ROBERT MULHEARN: Oh, absolutely. And that's, you know, I've got a military background and, you know, I graduated high school in Kansas, went to ku, entered the Air Force, and, you know, the opportunities. I ended up working directly for the president. I was a CIO of a spy agency. It was just an incredible experience, but I did take the effort to do that. Those initial steps.

[34:39] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[34:39] ROBERT MULHEARN: I think a good part of America has lost that sense of initiative.

[34:47] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[34:48] ROBERT MULHEARN: You know, they rely on extended families, so they sit and squalor in. In wherever they're at. Or they sit and rule America with no opportunities.

[34:58] PAUL T.: Right.

[34:59] ROBERT MULHEARN: One of the great things of America is if things are bad in one place, you pick up and you go, you know, think of that California 49ers. I think that's kind of disappeared from our culture.

[35:14] PAUL T.: Yep.

[35:16] SPEAKER C: We've got about five minutes, a little less than five minutes left. If you guys have a final burning question for one another, this would be a good time for that. And I also, I like to ask, or suggest maybe that you all talk about how we can come together after such a divisive year. You've kind of talked about this already, but. So that. Or questions of your own for our last few minutes.

[35:41] PAUL T.: Okay. Well, first of all, I'd like to say thank you for talking. I've learned a lot and I've gained a lot already, so. And I hope I've contributed to this discussion a lot, too. So. But yeah, so thank you. First of all, and I guess there's two questions here on my chat screen is, when you think about the future, what are you most concerned with or most hopeful for? And then the second question is, how can we come together after a divisive election this year?

[36:08] ROBERT MULHEARN: One of the things I did learn from my long career is when we look across the generations, we tend to dismiss the younger generations, and I think that's foolish on our part. I feel just fine handing over the reins of America to the generation behind me, and I think they'll feel comfortable doing the same. So I have no fear of, you know, of the youth. You know, they may do crazy things like tattoos and get their ears gauged, who knows what else nowadays, but still, when America is going to need them to step up and take leadership, I think that's there. And what was the second part of the Question, I think is generational too.

[37:05] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[37:06] ROBERT MULHEARN: It's easy, Paul. And you and I are close to the same age, so we can have the same kind of discussions, but you and I talking to. Well, I've got a 17 year old that I try to talk politics to and you know, that's a whole different discussion. You know, and again, the whole sense of entitlement and, you know, what's expected and what's not from the government is really almost generational and it may or's have been.

[37:36] PAUL T.: Sure.

[37:37] ROBERT MULHEARN: The expectations. So I think we need to close the generational gaps from a political point of view.

[37:46] PAUL T.: And bring younger people into. Into voting or running for office or all that.

[37:55] ROBERT MULHEARN: Get them involved. Yeah, just get them involved.

[38:00] PAUL T.: Okay.

[38:01] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah. You and I having conversations with young people, you know, and get them interested in what's happening around them, you know.

[38:10] PAUL T.: Yeah.

[38:11] ROBERT MULHEARN: We can't survive forever with a totally ignorant motor base.

[38:17] PAUL T.: Yep.

[38:17] ROBERT MULHEARN: But it sure seems like that's kind of where we're heading.

[38:24] PAUL T.: Well, that. No, I agree. Thank you. And I think there's a, you know, there because I have a son who's 14 and I think you're right. I would have a different conversation with him than I am having with you. And at a certain point it takes trust. Right. And I have to give up whatever control I feel I have and trust that he and his classmates and his generation will do well. Right. Maybe be the next greatest generation. I don't know. But yeah. And there's a hesitancy sometimes to give up that control as we see a lot of the people elected in this past election are still pretty old.

[39:13] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah.

[39:14] PAUL T.: Right. But yeah, maybe it's time to turn the corner on that. I agree.

[39:20] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yes.

[39:23] PAUL T.: All right. Gosh, I guess I don't think I have anything more to say to you. That's all the questions here on the screen, so.

[39:33] ROBERT MULHEARN: Well, thank you for your time, Paul. I really enjoyed this.

[39:36] PAUL T.: Yes, thank you too, Robert. Are we done? I think she froze up.

[39:45] ROBERT MULHEARN: Oh, okay. I was afraid she fell asleep.

[39:51] PAUL T.: I think she's actually off the call right now, so. Anyway, something might have happened, so. But yes, Robert, thank you too. I agree. If we get cut off, I appreciate it very much.

[40:01] ROBERT MULHEARN: All right, enjoy the rest of your day.

[40:03] PAUL T.: Thank you. You too.

[40:04] ROBERT MULHEARN: Yeah, bye.