Paula Siegel and Terry Hutchison

[00:02] PAULA SIEGEL: Hi, I'm Paula Siegel. I'm 69 years old. Today is Wednesday, May 18, 2022. I'm in Fresno, California, and my conversation partner is Terry. And we're doing one small step.

[00:24] TERRY HUTCHISON: You want me to go in? Okay. I'm Terry Hutchison. People call me Hutch. I'm 82 years old. Today is Wednesday, May 18, 2022. Also, I'm in Clovis, California, right next door. Paula's my conversation partner on one small step.

[00:46] PAULA SIEGEL: Okay. And. Oh, that's. I'm reading. I'm going to read Terry's bio. Right. I started to read mine. My family moved to Fresno in 1890. In 1910, some moved to Modesto, where I was born. I have been married for over 60 years and live with my wife, my son, and sometimes two grandsons. I have enjoyed benefits of being white, not poor, republican and protestant. I'm appalled by partisanship and by people believing misinformation and even clear lies. I am strongly in favor of vaccination and masking. I am fluent in Spanish as a second language. I love people, especially children.

[01:33] TERRY HUTCHISON: Do you have any questions?

[01:35] PAULA SIEGEL: Oh, am I supposed to ask questions now or wait till you read my bio?

[01:40] TERRY HUTCHISON: Yeah, if you want to read Paula's bio. Okay. I was born in the Bay area of California, grew up in Kentucky, and returned to California's Central Valley during college. I'm married to a farmer and spent 25 years teaching drama to kids and writing and directing plays for them. In the nineties, I participated in a group where people of all different faces and really just got together once a week to discuss their lives. And it gave me a. Gave me such understanding, especially of people I've been taught to fear. I'm hoping you have a similar experience now. Okay.

[02:23] PAULA SIEGEL: Well, you know, I'm interested. I'm always interested in people's family history. I said, your family came to Fresno, and before they came to Fresno.

[02:37] TERRY HUTCHISON: So my. I don't really know. Indiana and then Missouri. They came to California from Missouri, I call it. When they crossed the pass by Bakersfield, they looked out and saw haze all over the valley and commented, that must be due to all the indian campfires. So my grandmother left Eau Claire, Wisconsin, when her dad married a new stepmother who was not nice to her. So she was 18. I never thought she was adventurous, but she jumped on a train at age 18 and came to California, got a job in a. In a restaurant, I believe, and living on Jones street. Along came their earthquake. And so she took 2 hours to get her corset on, and then she went downstairs, loaded a couple of trunks on the train, and they went down the valley and let people out wherever they thought they might know somebody. So she had a sister in Pixley, so she got up in Lone Star, which is close to Fresno, and eventually got a job with a family there and married one of their sons. So I tell everybody I got off to a shaky start.

[03:49] PAULA SIEGEL: Wow. That, that is, that's amazing. Courage. Yeah. So, yeah.

[03:59] TERRY HUTCHISON: So tell me about your life in Kentucky. What was going on there?

[04:03] PAULA SIEGEL: Goshen, you know, it was kind of, it was a bit of culture shock because we grew up in the Bay area, and I have to say, my whole family is very, very liberal people. And then going to Kentucky, I remember black and white drinking fountains and bathrooms and all the schools were segregated until I was high school. And, you know, and it was, what can I say? I am? And I think an awful. And plus, there was a whole different, there was a very, very different culture there because we were, you know, not religious people. And just about everybody there was very, very religious. And, and just a real sense of, well, two, one sense is of being, you know, very, very different and kind of having to hide who I was and what my family thought and, but also at the same time, getting an appreciation for a culture that's very different. That was very different from the, you know, the liberal Bay area and having an opportunity to have friends who felt saw things differently than the family did. And like I say, when at certain times I can, I can break back into a southern accent. My daughter says, up, you just said that, that word with three syllables, you know, that one syllable word with three syllables. So that was, but I will say that I, that when we move back here to actually moved back to Dinuba when I was 20, and just this sense of, wow, I feel so at home here. Nobody says, where are you from? Get your dog. Funny. So that was, so that was kind of my experience. And like I say, in every year, we still, we still celebrate Derby day. It's kind of like a religious holiday in my family, you know, celebrate the Kentucky Derby and all that stuff.

[06:21] TERRY HUTCHISON: So I actually met my wife in Arkansas. I went to a little christian college in Arkansas, and in 1959, I guess, and we got married and moved. So, searcy. Arkansas is extremely conservative. The college was ultra conservative. They had a John Burke society meeting every, every now, so, and I had gone to high school in Berkeley, so I was quite familiar with Missouri. And I brought my, my wife, who had grown up in rural Missouri, a little time in Kansas City and then Arkansas and we moved to Berkeley, and as we drove into Berkeley, she was just amazed that, you know, that was 1960, so she was amazed and enjoyed it. We've had a richest, full life since then. I, I did encounter segregation in Arkansas, but at this extremely conservative college, I was a little bit of a rebel, rather, the president of the university one day and gave a lecture about how blackbirds and bluebirds flock together and don't mix. So we got a sign and put in the fountain in the fish pond in front of the auditorium saying, no blackbirds allowed. Anyway, I was at Paul, I'm from very conservative roots, but I'm sick and tired of people being treated unjustly, and that bothers me. So, you know, we're supposed to find somebody and talk to you different. I suspect that you and I have a lot more in common than differences. I value children. That's a pediatrician, so.

[08:05] PAULA SIEGEL: Oh, fabulous.

[08:09] TERRY HUTCHISON: My wife has a degree in early childhood education, so we've been around people for a long time, and I've always gravitated towards underserved people. So I work, I don't have a private office. I work for the university, and they're for the community hospital. And so I get to take care of people who are different than I am, and I value them greatly. So, as I said, we probably got a lot more in common that we have differences.

[08:40] PAULA SIEGEL: I immediately sense that we, we have a lot in common. A lot in common, because I also, I studied early childhood education in school. I never, I switched to something else, but, so I have a real strong connection with preschool children. And I've worked, you know, I've worked a lot with, with kids that little. And I can't. Yeah. One of the questions that they see, I was kind of thinking, okay, they had a couple of questions we're supposed to discuss, and it was, who is, who has influenced you the most? And I have to say it's my husband who is, I grew up in a very, very, very liberal family, but a little bit, we're the good people, and people who are conservative are the bad people. And I kind of grew up being a child of the sixties. It's power to the people. Right on. And then I married my husband, who is, he's just a person with a lot of, he's very, very ethical person, and he's also, and really, really, really smart. And we would get, you know, we'd be listening to the hippie radio station, you know, in the early days of our marriage. And I was going, yeah, right on, right on. And he's going, you know, there's a, you know, there's an inconsistency here. There's a logical fallacy. And also he'd say, you know, this is, this is just nonsense, what they're saying. And I was kind of like, you know, he's right. He's right. And, and he has, he's a person who has, I just think every, everybody likes him. He is the kind of guy, he's, he has friends, best friends who are on, who are as conservative as they come and as liberal as they come, and they get together once a week for dinner and they do spend a lot of time arguing. But he'll often point out to me, you know, here is, you know, you know, Mike's way of thinking about this issue. And I'll go, oh, yeah, I can see that. I understand that. So it's, you know, it's, and a lot of times they'll say, you know, this is, the Democrats are so stupid with this law they've just passed. And I'll go, oh, gosh, that's right. You're absolutely right. So I guess just to make me, I don't know, want to reach out to everybody and see if we can't find what we, what we agree with and, you know, get off this whole thing of, you know, we're good. We're the good guys, you're the bad guys. And see what. Yeah, find them in the middle ground.

[11:41] TERRY HUTCHISON: I couldn't agree more. I listened to NPR. My wife was a KMJ. Quite a bit of difference between those two. And I'll listen to KMJ once in a while to try to get their point of view. And generally speaking, I agree with NPR, but obviously, I take some, some things at issue. But anyway, I'm just, I'm really delighted to meet you. I wish we had time to talk more about your love for kids and that sort of thing and where you work. So I don't know that we have much, much differences, though what they say in my thing, that might be a difference. I mean, you grew up in Liberal Bay Area. I've lived in a Bay Area, went to Berkeley High School, so, and I worked in San Francisco for a while. So I've had some experience like that and find wonderful people in all areas. And I think in general, people are basically good. Not all of them, but most of them are basically good. I have some good friends in Dinuba who, you know, are salt of the earth, working with your hands kind of people. And I have some, some of them are Mennonite, some of them are Mexican. And so just all sorts of people. And so I really, I don't feel that I fit in any group terribly well. I certainly don't fit in with the rednecks. I don't have a gun wreck in my car and take them to the grocery store. I, I'm appalled by the, by the misinformation stuff that's gone on around. Of course, the Democrats do it, too, but I think the Republicans have, yes, taking the lead in lies this time, and Putin's a liar, but then, you know, you can tell a politician's lying when his lips are moving. So I try to look for the good in people. I try to overlook the bad, but there's a lot of bad out. There's a lot of good, too.

[13:49] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah.

[13:50] TERRY HUTCHISON: The trouble this world is created by politicians, I think, not by people.

[13:57] PAULA SIEGEL: Well, they certainly can exacerbate the problem. And, yeah, and I, like I say, I've got friends and many family members, and sometimes it's like, I kind of want to go, okay. You know, wait, wait, wait. It's not so simple as that of. But anyway.

[14:25] TERRY HUTCHISON: So growing up, my family were great. We had a great vineyard in Modesto, and Cesar Chavez came along, of course, with my background. At that point, I was not particularly in favor of what he was doing because the small farmers were just kind of getting shafted and they weren't, weren't the problems, anyway. And then later on, I've come to appreciate Cesar Chavez and the work that he did. Same way with Martin Luther King, his other people that have been leaders, and Ronald Reagan, for that matter. I mean, he was a good man in many ways. Mister Trump, I don't have much use for it. But anyway.

[15:09] PAULA SIEGEL: So who was the, what person was a, was a big influence on your, on YouTube?

[15:14] TERRY HUTCHISON: I thought about that question. It's hard for me to pick one person. One person I will pick is my great grandmother. We called her big grandma. She was a small woman, but we called her big grandma because she was better than great grandma and she always was. She'd point her finger at me and look at me and tell me, give me what, this is the right way of doing things. And so I think she was probably more influenced on me than anything. But, you know, I've lived a long time, I can name a whole bunch of people that have been influential. How about you?

[15:48] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah, me too. Me too. You know, but I say part of the thing, like I say, my whole family, you know, very, very progressive people. I'll tell you, my dad for a while, you know, was a communist. This was, you know, this, it was a real conflict when I was growing up in Kentucky because, you know, I wanted to be loyal to my family. But, man, you taught, you say the word communist and they're, you know, they're gonna get out the tar and the feathers right there and then. He moderated. He moderated his views. And I wish I had asked him before he passed away, you know. What made you change your mind? Because by the time I was certainly, by the time I was of college age, he had decided that the Soviet Union was not the workers paradise he had envisioned, but he certainly always was a very liberal minded person. But he was a bit lockstep, as I said, with the, with the, with the, you know, the liberal mindset. And my, my mom was, my mom comes from, you know, a long line of very progressive people as well. But she was, she was a person who could get along with everybody, too. And she was also, again, a very, very much, and I'll mention both my parents were medical people. My dad was a doctor. My mom was a nurse. So they're very much into, well, you know, looking out for the underdog. And my parents marched with Doctor King. My mom's her greatest thing. You know, she said what? She once sat on a podium with Doctor King. It just was an accident that she happened to be there. She wasn't one of the movers or shake movers and shakers. And let's see. And very much, you know, into the whole thing of, well, you know, follow following health rules, putting on your seatbelt when you get in the car. Always go into the bathroom before you get in the car. All this kind, you know, and was, you know, most of the stuff they said was very, you know, it's, it served me very, very well. So I think that's, I mean, I think that's part of the reason, you know, I haven't seen a lot to make me change my opinions, except when stuff just doesn't, when stuff my people say stuff like, there's a bunch of my family members who are going, you know, oh, George W. Bush stole the election. And that Supreme Court they made, you know, and I said, no, they counted all those chads. Bush won the election. But, you know, you get people who just get into this thing, they really haven't, they haven't studied the whole thing.

[19:06] TERRY HUTCHISON: So the issue of the electoral college is important, and I think it's a check and balance because, you know, it's not just vote for vote. I, Central Valley would get screwed if California was, everything was by popular vote because.

[19:25] PAULA SIEGEL: Oh, absolutely.

[19:26] TERRY HUTCHISON: I say people in San Francisco know where Oakland is, where Walnut Creek is. The next town is Denver or Chicago, and all that stuff in between is a wasteland. They're all Republicans. None of them are, you know, not very smart and, and so forth. So that the people in San Francisco see the world completely different. They don't understand what is to get out and work with your hands in the dirt and earn a reasonable living and try to live an honest life and take care of people. They're quick to pass judgment. So not all, by any means, but that's, that's a problem. So that's where I came up with an expression that people know were, no, we're, Walnut Creek is in the next town of Chicago. Everything else. I've had people in San Francisco basically tell me that. How can you lose Fresno? Oh, yeah, there's wonderful people in Fresno.

[20:24] PAULA SIEGEL: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'll tell you in front, you know, I have always felt very comfortable in Fresno compared to when I lived in the, when I lived in the southeast. But I'm not sure I agree with you that people in the Bay Area haven't, haven't worked with their hands. But I still, but I also say people don't, you get, I don't know, you get into black and white thinking, you know, and we got, you know, it's, they, you know, you gotta, they just pass this really stupid regulation where, oh, dear, I'm gonna get off into, off into the weeds, but go for it. You know, it's like, okay, goat, goat farmers, they have been, they're being contracted to take their goats up into areas and to graze them for fire suppression. And they get these, they get people generally, I think they're from, probably from south of the border, who come in to be shepherds of the goatherds and they just passed, they just passed a regulation where that the guys who are goat herders have to be paid the equivalent of $100,000 a year. 140,000. I'm sorry, my husband just came in and corrected me, $140,000 a year to herd the goats. And it's like, this is the stupidest thing. You can't, you, you know, I'm, it's nice work if you can get it, you know, and so it's going to, they're not going to be able to do the fire suppression because no goat herder is going to be, a goat owner is going to be able to afford. This is ridiculous. But that's the kind of stuff. It's like, well meant. It's like, oh, gee, we want these, you know, these poor, you know, goat herd herders to, you know, be able to make a decent living or, or paid great wages. But that's just, it's too far the other way. But I will tell you that most of my, if not all of my liberal friends wouldn't have that understanding. Oh, those rich. All the farmers are rich and they can afford. They can afford it.

[22:51] TERRY HUTCHISON: See, I've got two acres of two countries. I tell everybody I'm a big farmer, and you know that I am because I keep investing more and more into my property. I'm going to keep doing till all the money is gone. So that.

[23:05] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you. Yeah, yeah. How do you make a, how do you make a small fortune in farming? Have a, have a large fortune, you know, and then we. Ten years. Yeah, but I. Yeah, that. Anyway. And you can get me off on sometimes, you know, even in my church, I'm just. God. There was one woman I. Fortunately, we were meeting on Zoom at that time, or I probably would have gone up and decked her because she was just, her opinions were just so. It's like you haven't, you. You're not thinking clearly. And she got pretty mad at me because I disagreed with her. And anyway, I'm getting off into my resentment.

[23:53] TERRY HUTCHISON: Well, you're outspoken. I admire that about you. And I'm not surprised. I figured that out from reading your story. But by looking at you for a couple minutes, I read that in you. This is a lady you don't mess with.

[24:08] PAULA SIEGEL: My husband would agree with you, actually. I'm usually, I'm usually a shy person. I usually, I'm one of these people, you know, my, like I said, my husband has this group of friends, all political perspectives and everything in between, and they get together. They. Sometimes they would come over to our house for the dinner, and these guys are screaming at each other and calling each other idiots. And one time I said, you know, all these years you guys been getting together, has any one of you ever converted the other to your opinion? They look at me like I'm nuts. No, to me, I'm trying. I'm trying to have everybody get along, you know, and I'm trying to find. But let's talk about where we agree. And I don't think I've ever converted anybody, you know, to my way of thinking. But at least, you know, we're not going to have world war three break out. And like I say, I like to listen. I love people's stories. Every. The standard question I ask, you know, I'll ask when I'm in, you know, when they stop arguing, you know, aside from. Have you ever converted anybody? Is. Well, tell me, what. What experiences in your life led you to your political opinions? It's a fascinating question. I'm talking too much.

[25:32] TERRY HUTCHISON: No, you're doing fine. I appreciate it very much.

[25:35] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah. Gosh, I never thought about it.

[25:40] TERRY HUTCHISON: I grew up as a conservative Republican Protestant, and so I had a lot of advantages. You know, I wasn't a disadvantaged person in any way, and I value that. But I appreciate people that have to struggle. But anyway, that's. I know what you mean is there's some good people in many, many walks of life, and there's a little bit of good in a whole lot of people. So you should be able to have a conversation and bring out the good. If you think that people yell at each other, read Twitter or something like that. I'm just appalled by that kind of stuff. In fact, I disconnected myself from Twitter because I don't need that hate speech. That's not what I need.

[26:26] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah, yeah, no, and I stopped doing Facebook, too. Well, like, okay. I go on there once in a while and just take a little peek and get off because my wife does.

[26:35] TERRY HUTCHISON: That, so she up with people for me, so.

[26:37] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah, yeah. But sometimes people just. They. I don't know if they ameliorated any, but people just say these horrible things.

[26:47] TERRY HUTCHISON: I don't know how they feel like they can do it because it is not anonymous. People know who's saying that. But anyway, I don't need to. I just don't need to listen.

[26:57] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah.

[26:59] TERRY HUTCHISON: So.

[27:02] PAULA SIEGEL: Terry and Ben's got this. Is there anything that worries you about the future?

[27:09] TERRY HUTCHISON: Anything that. What?

[27:10] PAULA SIEGEL: Is there anything that worries you about the future, especially the political future of the US? You want to go first on that one, Terry?

[27:19] TERRY HUTCHISON: The biggest thing that I have taken exception to is something that pervades every walk of life, including NPR, our story corps. When you call, you get a recording, not a live person. And the recording blabs on and on. And the purpose of it is to get you to shut up or pick an option or something. There's so many things where people spout off with the idea. They just want you to hear what they have to say. It doesn't even have to be true. Through the doctor's office, person call in and say, my daughter just had a seizure. Well, we can see you in three months, the doctor's really pretty busy, blah, blah, blah. And it's not really helpful. So I look forward to the day when people answer the phone and listen to what the person's question is. That would be so helpful. And I think that it affects our politics as well as our medicine, as well as our schools, as well as, you know, any business around. It's just we've taken, we've dehumanized it by putting these answering machines in, making them possible. So it's interesting, I just got a call from a sweet lady from Dinuba. Yeah.

[28:41] PAULA SIEGEL: Well, I have to say, I am, I am terribly frightened myself. I can, you know, I'm a real student of history and, and just seeing how, how much we could go into a civil war. The only problem is, you know, we, you know, I don't know how we'd separate into, you'd have to separate into three different countries, I guess, because of the midwest between us and Chicago. Yeah. I am very, just very frightened. I think, again, we're in total agreement because I don't mind if you differ opinion, but you need to have it backed up with facts. And I think an awful lot of people, it's so and so said it. I believe it, and that settles it. And I don't have any, I, any idea. I've stopped trying to talk to people about, you know, about masks or vaccinations or any, that's, it's, there's, you know, there's, I don't, you know, there's no discussion. But like I say, it's, it scares, scares me to death. And I'm also, you know, I mean, being the good liberal, I'm also afraid of fascism, but I'm also afraid of communism. You know, so it's, so I'm just.

[30:12] TERRY HUTCHISON: Probably past our peak and headed on the downhill side. And because we don't, we've kind of lost our moral compass. We lost a sense of unity. And so I couldn't agree more that, you know, decisions are passed by 49 to 51 and the Congress, and it should never be that way. I mean, it should be fair and honest discussion and people come to consensus. That just doesn't happen. So that worries me very much about our system of government here. Also, people losing faith in the government. They don't, you know, it used to be the government said it and you accepted it, which has its own drawbacks, too. But these people were more united. They're not united now.

[30:53] PAULA SIEGEL: Right.

[30:54] TERRY HUTCHISON: World War Two was at a time when people united. It amazes me how the west is united with Ukraine. I don't know what that means, but it's interesting. Putin is another Hitler from my point of view.

[31:11] PAULA SIEGEL: Me, too. I agree.

[31:12] TERRY HUTCHISON: Yeah, we'll see what happens. But then there's lots of people, the Rohingyas and the people from Myanmar. The Sikh Rohingyas is. Sudan is having wars and the palestinian israeli thing has been going on for years. And the Hutus and Houthis where they are in Yemen is another area of concern. It just, if we could just sit down and listen to each other. That's why I valued, that's why I signed up for this, because at least I wanted one conversation that was at least open and honest and we can express our opinions without getting involved in a big conflict.

[32:00] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah.

[32:02] TERRY HUTCHISON: Too bad. We agree on so many things.

[32:06] PAULA SIEGEL: Well, I don't, you know, I don't know. I, I have, you know, maybe I'm stepping outside of the bounds, but I could see us getting together, you know, after this thing, I, you know, to me, it's like I can see, you know, because again, I think the more people who don't agree get together and can be, can be friendly, you know, and, and have, you know, I could even see, you know, and you can start to say, somebody will say x. And I can say, no, no, I talked to a guy and he told me this thing, this is different. You know, am I making sense? Because, you know, I, you know, I just, I like to see, can we, can't we all get along?

[32:57] TERRY HUTCHISON: That would be nice. You know, there's a business news meetings now. Usually have a fats fast fact checker.

[33:07] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah.

[33:08] TERRY HUTCHISON: In the background that kind of looks up the facts. And they're finding a lot of times that people say, well, that's what he just said is not correct. I saw a picture of a neat picture of a girl, ostensibly ukrainian, sitting next to her dead mother. And it turns out that's actually taken from an old film. It's a movie not even, not even real life. And I appreciate him not taking pictures of the ukrainian kids in distress because that violates their privacy. But so much of us, what's around us is just not true. And people keep spouting it off over and over again. If you say it loud enough and often enough, some people are going to believe it.

[33:48] PAULA SIEGEL: Oh, yeah.

[33:49] TERRY HUTCHISON: In the end, people will say, hey, wait a minute, that's just baloney. We don't want to hear that anymore.

[33:54] PAULA SIEGEL: Right.

[33:55] TERRY HUTCHISON: It doesn't seem to happen as often as I'd like for it to happen.

[34:00] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah, I feel like. I feel the same way. Yeah.

[34:05] TERRY HUTCHISON: So what school did you teach in?

[34:07] PAULA SIEGEL: Well, I taught, actually, I taught at Cynthia Merrill dance studio. You may be familiar with that. And then I also taught at, there's a lutheran church on the corner of Barstow and Fresno. I taught there for years. I taught four year olds. And then I also, I also taught. There's Fresno children's playhouse. You familiar with that? They used to have children's theater. That they did. Anyway, so I. I taught drama there and also worked with kids, putting on. Putting them in plays. Where else? And then I also. Boy, I had one semester teaching at Sierra Unified High School. Sierra At Sierra High School.

[34:55] TERRY HUTCHISON: Sierra in Oakhurst or in Auburn.

[34:58] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah. Yeah.

[35:00] TERRY HUTCHISON: That's an interesting part of the world, too.

[35:03] PAULA SIEGEL: Yes. Yes.

[35:06] TERRY HUTCHISON: Anyway, I'm really delighted to meet you and.

[35:13] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah, no, I hope we. Maybe we can get together and have dinner or something like that sometimes, you know, the. With your wife and my husband. Like I say, you guys would love him. He's.

[35:25] TERRY HUTCHISON: I'm going to retire at the beginning of the year, so you're going to prior? Yeah, I'm actually going to do it. So I would like to be involved in something that's going to make a difference in people's lives after that, particular people who were disproportionately underserved.

[35:43] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah.

[35:44] TERRY HUTCHISON: I don't know what I'm going to do. Haven't decided yet. But I. We're about five minutes. Okay.

[35:48] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Um. Yeah, no, that sounds great. See, um. Yeah, you're, um. Yeah, doctors are like farmers. It's hard for them to retire.

[36:04] TERRY HUTCHISON: Yes. But I finally said, okay, this is it. Because I need to spend a year kind of trying to find somebody to see my patients because there's.

[36:12] PAULA SIEGEL: Oh, yeah.

[36:13] TERRY HUTCHISON: Not a lot of people in Fresno to see my patients. So that's part of the reason. And I don't. I didn't want to retire, but I need to spend some time with my wife. She says, we've been married 62 years. We only lived together 20. And the rest of the time I was at the hospital. Oh, yeah, farmers do the same thing.

[36:32] PAULA SIEGEL: Yeah, I remember. Yeah. My dad. Yeah, a lot of things. My dad was on call, you know, or had to, you know, had to go in.

[36:42] TERRY HUTCHISON: What part of the Bay area did you live in?

[36:44] PAULA SIEGEL: Well, we moved every two years. I was born in Antioch, and then we moved to Stockton, and then we moved to Oakland. And then when I was six, we moved to Kentucky, so. But my. Yeah, but my. Yeah, my parents, my dad was. He did his residency at community hospital during the war and that's how he met my mom. And because she was a nurse at community. And anyway, and then after they got married, he went to private practice up in San Francisco. In fact, my mom just died in 2020. But before she passed away, we went and saw it. We went and so the place where my dad's, his little office was where he was. What do you call it? A family physician.

[37:41] TERRY HUTCHISON: Yeah. People say they're going to throw you a big party when you leave. They said no, they're going to say don't let the door hit you on the way up.

[37:50] PAULA SIEGEL: I'm sorry, I didn't hear the first part of what you said.

[37:52] TERRY HUTCHISON: People said they're going to throw a big retirement party. No, they're going to say, don't let the door hit you on the way up. So it's funny how you can devote your life to something and as soon as you're gone. Who was that? I know.

[38:09] PAULA SIEGEL: I think about that. Yeah.

[38:10] TERRY HUTCHISON: We're only here for a short period of time. Better make the best of it.

[38:13] PAULA SIEGEL: Well, yeah. And I think. I think those who've worked for children with children, that's, that's going to be the lasting legacy. That's going to be the most important. You've made a difference in the life of, of a child.

[38:27] TERRY HUTCHISON: You can talk about that tree for a long time.

[38:30] PAULA SIEGEL: Long time. Yeah, but, but like I say, so anyway, do you have what he plans to do in retirement? Gonna travel or anything?

[38:41] TERRY HUTCHISON: Oh, you know, I got seven great grandkids in Oregon and some grandkids in Oregon and some in Texas. So we'll be doing some traveling, probably road traveling. Because nice thing about being old is you're not in a hurry. You drive 300 miles, get a motel or something. Might even get a camper. I don't know, but it's dragging something around. I'm not sure it's worth it. But anyway, I might come to visit my friends in Danube. That'd be fun. You still live in Danuba?

[39:09] PAULA SIEGEL: Oh, no, no. We live in Fresno. Like I said, my dad was very restless. We'd move every two years and anyway, so finally. Anyway, finally I went to Fresno State and I've never left Fresno.

[39:23] TERRY HUTCHISON: Good. I'm glad you're here. We need more people like you.

[39:26] PAULA SIEGEL: Good. I think I feel the same way about you.

[39:29] TERRY HUTCHISON: Well, thank you.

[39:30] PAULA SIEGEL: Same way about you and Ben.

[39:32] TERRY HUTCHISON: Maybe we should get to know you sometime. But good people in the world. I'm really delighted to meet you, Paula.

[39:40] PAULA SIEGEL: I'm delighted to meet you, too. And I. Anyway, I'll say it again, maybe, you know, if you're comfortable, I'd love to get together and. And, you know, have you come over to our house? You and your wife come over and have dinner at our house sometime.

[39:55] TERRY HUTCHISON: Can I bring you a pecan pie?

[39:57] PAULA SIEGEL: I. Well, I'm not able to eat sugar, but my husband will scarf that one up.

[40:02] TERRY HUTCHISON: I can make. I can make pecan pies with. Without sugar. With a sugar substitute.

[40:08] PAULA SIEGEL: Okay. All right. Sounds. Sounds great. Sounds good to you. But that's today. Now you're bringing out the Kentuckian in me.

[40:17] TERRY HUTCHISON: Well, I also put a little bourbon in it, which is for sure.

[40:21] PAULA SIEGEL: Well, see, now, see, now you're back. I'm talking like a Kentucky boy. Yeah.

[40:26] TERRY HUTCHISON: I lived in Detroit for eight years. There were a lot of people in Kentucky from. Who came up to work in Detroit. By day I make the cars, and by night I make the bars.

[40:38] PAULA SIEGEL: If only they could read between the lines. That's one of my favorite songs.

[40:44] TERRY HUTCHISON: It is, yeah.

[40:46] PAULA SIEGEL: So, anyway, we're kind of, you know, I'm trying to keep track of the time. He still hasn't done the wrap it up. Oh, no, he's doing the wrap it up thing.

[40:56] TERRY HUTCHISON: Okay. Well, I'm done. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you. And I hope this is the beginning at the end.

[41:04] PAULA SIEGEL: I hope so. And thank you, Ben, for this is. This is what I call making the world a better place and making it so easy for us.

[41:18] TERRY HUTCHISON: Okay, I'm done, Ben, so you can wrap up whatever you want.