Rachael Glick and Randy Magen

[00:07] RACHAEL GLICK: My name is Rachael I am 60 years old. Today's date is September 14, 2022. And I am in Baltimore, Maryland. My partner's name is Randy, and he is my one small step conversation partner.

[00:25] RANDY MAGEN: And my name's Randy. I'm 64. Today's September 14, 2022. I'm in Boise, Idaho. My partner's name is Rachael and she's my one small step conversation partner.

[00:50] RACHAEL GLICK: Why did you want to do this interview today?

[00:55] RANDY MAGEN: You know, I'm a regular listener to StoryCorps and their podcasts and NPR. And so when I heard that they were doing these conversations, I thought, oh, they'll probably do that pretty well. And, you know, I think I, that I live in a bubble, so I interact with people who are a lot like me and share my views. And, you know, when Trump was elected in 2016, I was in a meeting the following Wednesday morning and people were in tears. And we went around the room and none of us really knew anybody who voted for Trump. And it just kind of reinforced to me, wow, I am really out of touch with 60 million people in the United States or whatever the number was that voted for. And so this is my one small step to try and get out of my bubble.

[02:12] RACHAEL GLICK: Got it.

[02:14] RANDY MAGEN: Why did you want to do this interview today?

[02:16] RACHAEL GLICK: Well, I think by nature I'm curious and interested in people. And in order to understand or help myself understand best my own thinking about things, I always love to hear another point of view and also just try, just, I thought it would be, I think finding the common ground of people coming from different places is always, I mean, it's always worthwhile. So I'm going to okay your bio. I'm reading this for you, Randy. I have been a college professor for the past 30 years. I teach social work and am a social worker. I have two children, both in their thirties. One is an ESL teacher and the other is studying to be a nurse. I am a widower. My biggest concern is the hatred I see between people with different views. So much anger that they can't even listen to each other. I think we have lost too much community and live in too little homogenous bubbles.

[03:45] RANDY MAGEN: I think I'm supposed to read your bio now, Rachael right? Oh, there it is. Okay. So, Rachael your bio. I'm a 60 year old white jewish woman living in Baltimore with my husband and have two sons, ages 18 and 20, in college. I'm a social worker with a specialization in aging, chosen because I had a grandmother who was so dear to me. I don't know if she realized how much she taught me about getting old and how to do it. Well, I'm privileged to have had the resources to secure the academic support my kids have needed and still do because of learning differences. I read, watch movies, and learn from local activists about racial justice.

[04:37] RACHAEL GLICK: What in my bio would you like to know more about?

[04:42] RANDY MAGEN: It sounds like your grandmother was important, so I'd like to know more about her. I think the learning differences your children have experienced, I'd like to know more about that.

[04:56] RACHAEL GLICK: Okay. Well, my grandmother, she lived close to us. I probably was closest with her as she got older, I mean, from eighties on to 98 when she died. And at that point, I was in social work school, and I was always writing my papers on her because she was just, she was this wonderful example of aging successfully, I thought. And it was a lot about just rolling with the punches, and I love that about her. And I had so much patience for her, and it was a very loving family, but others didn't have as much. And I believe that she really appreciated what I could give to her. And, you know, she. It wasn't, it wasn't like a careful kind of relationship. You know, she wasn't a. It was just a normal, easygoing, wonderful relationship. And my kids. My kids are both. They're smart guys. They both have learning difference and learning difference of. It's sort of. I guess it's executive functioning issues and some slow processing. My one son is on the autism spectrum with Asperger, so he's fully functional, but he's, you know, he's an eccentric kind of kid. And I think I realized from them that I probably have some of the executive dysfunction as well. So it's been useful eye opening for me. So. Oh, my grandmother's name is Ruth. I always called her Ruthie. Yeah. Yeah.

[07:17] RANDY MAGEN: That was. That was my mother's name.

[07:19] RACHAEL GLICK: Oh, yeah? Yes. Let me ask you a couple questions about your bio. So it. It appeared to me that probably, and I can see that I'm right, you were widowed too young, I found. And I think you have daughter. I think they were daughters.

[07:50] RANDY MAGEN: I have a son and a daughter.

[07:51] RACHAEL GLICK: Son and a daughter. So their professions were interesting to me. I guess there was overlap in your bio and mine that I found quite interesting, of course. About what. What you teach in social work school.

[08:17] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah, I mean, the other, the other overlap. I'm also jewish, even though I live out here in Boise, Idaho, which you might not expect. Yeah. My wife died three years ago.

[08:35] RACHAEL GLICK: I'm sorry.

[08:36] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. Well, you know, it's. It's you know, you know, it's going to happen, you know, and especially, you know, when you get a diagnosis, all that. And actually, I think, you know, and you may, this may be your experience with people, too. You know, I've been involved with both my parents and my wife as they're in hospice and as they're about to die. And those were actually, you know, wonderful experiences. And really, I felt like, you know, they died in a really peaceful, sweet, supportive home, you know, and it was, you know, since we're all going to die, it was great. But it's sort of like, it's sort of like when you give birth to a baby, you know, my experiences when we had kids, you know, I went through the childhood class.

[09:44] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[09:44] RANDY MAGEN: I learned a lot about babies and about the birth process. And then, you know, a day after the birth, you're home with this amazingly small little human being, and I had no idea what to do, you know, and the birth class didn't prepare me for that. And so that's sort of the same way I feel about, you know, hospice and dying. It was a great dying process.

[10:10] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[10:11] RANDY MAGEN: I was totally unprepared for the aftermath.

[10:15] RACHAEL GLICK: Right, right.

[10:17] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. And so it's an interesting. It remains interesting.

[10:23] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[10:24] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah.

[10:25] RACHAEL GLICK: So it sounds like you in the dying process, you do know what to do then. It's after your wife died, what was her name?

[10:35] RANDY MAGEN: Her name was Christine.

[10:37] RACHAEL GLICK: Christine. So in the dying process, if I'm. I mean, it's, it's not as confusing as, I mean, it sounds to me like. And I guess in my experience, too, you know, what to do when a person is dying.

[10:55] RANDY MAGEN: Right, right.

[10:56] RACHAEL GLICK: Different from childbirth.

[10:58] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah.

[10:59] RACHAEL GLICK: You don't know what to do with the kid. But, but you. But the, but the question is after. Right after she's gone.

[11:05] RANDY MAGEN: That's.

[11:06] RACHAEL GLICK: That's right. Yeah.

[11:08] RANDY MAGEN: So, you know, it changed my future, you know, permanently.

[11:20] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[11:21] RANDY MAGEN: And so it's, you know, it's creating a new story for, you know, our new fantasy. I don't know how you want to put that. You know, there's the new reality and the new fantasy about what comes tomorrow and. Yeah. And I just don't think I was prepared for that. I don't know if anybody has or is. The other thing that I think was different about that compared to lots of other situations in my life is that I don't know any other men who are widowers, you know, and so there weren't any models out there or examples or even people I could turn to that say, you know, what was, what was it, like, for you?

[12:12] RACHAEL GLICK: Right, right.

[12:14] RANDY MAGEN: And so that's, that's part of that, you know, feeling lost about how.

[12:20] RACHAEL GLICK: Are you doing better?

[12:22] RANDY MAGEN: Oh, I think so. I mean, you know, time heals some wounds and, you know, learning how to cope and. Yeah, I'm doing better. You know, it never goes away.

[12:34] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[12:36] RANDY MAGEN: Waves, right. Waves of things. Yeah. Waves of grief, you know? And, you know, the other piece, and it relates to our conversation, what I wrote in my bio, you know, probably, oh, I don't know, at least a year, if not two years after my, my wife died, I ran into one of my neighbors, the guy across the street. And, you know, we don't see each other much. Oh. And even my next door neighbor, this was just a couple months ago, neither of them have known she died. And so it's like, oh, my, you know, so I just kind of assumed word would spread around, you know, like, I'm going to go out and tell people, but I, but it sort of reinforces that notion that I have that we're so cut off from each other.

[13:28] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[13:29] RANDY MAGEN: You know, my neighbors don't know, and so my next door neighbor would send me a letter that was addressed to Randy. Christine. Well, you know, I'm used to getting mail for her still. I thought she knew, and so I told her. By the way, my wife died three years ago. That's a little awkward conversation.

[13:51] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[13:54] RANDY MAGEN: So I don't know. Do you feel connected to your neighbors?

[14:00] RACHAEL GLICK: Somewhat. Somewhat, but. But I can't. Imagining the neighbors not knowing that I had lost a spouse. If I were in your, in your shoes, I, it makes me wonder if you, if you were very self sufficient or why you didn't need any. Well, those aren't the people who you needed, I suppose.

[14:24] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. You know, there are people we see in passing, people we're friendly, but it's not like we had social engagements with them. But I also kind of thought they would notice.

[14:40] RACHAEL GLICK: Right.

[14:41] RANDY MAGEN: But there's, I don't know. I guess we don't notice a lot. I don't know.

[14:47] RACHAEL GLICK: Right. Yeah. That's unusual. That wouldn't have happened. Not that we're social together, but there's always mailbox conversations or so. Dog walking conversations. So let me ask you about your kids as a segue. First of all, again, how did they do with their mom dying? And how are they, what are they doing? Families in general?

[15:27] RANDY MAGEN: I think it's hard for me to say how they're doing with their mother dying, but it's constant for them. Although for a child you expect to outlive your parenthood. And so there's that sense that, you know, it's bound to happen. You know, I think for, for my daughter, I don't know. It's hard for me to say, I'm sure hard for me to say for my son. It was transformational. He was a, he was a wildland firefighter, which he'd been doing for three or four years. And then after his mother died, he decided he was going to become a nurse. And that's what, that's what she did. She was a nurse. And so it was just a remarkable transformation in his life. And, you know, where he had been a mediocre student, he suddenly became a very good student and driven and, you know, all those things that he needed to be to become a nurse. So it is remarkable.

[16:31] RACHAEL GLICK: That's a beautiful thing. Yeah.

[16:33] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah, it is beautiful.

[16:34] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah. My father died young. He was 56, and after that, that's when I, I couldn't do medical school. It's just not even, I couldn't, couldn't have done that. But, but that's when I went to social, social work school for, for aging. It was the closest to, I wasn't thinking nursing then, but it was the closest to what I had just been through with him, even though he wasn't aging, you know, a dying body and that kind of thing. So that's, that's very similar. Yeah. Yeah. So the last part of your bio, and you talked about everybody's. Well. Well, you talked about talking to people on different pages. Can't really communicate well, but then you talked about the Trump experience at work, and everybody was on the same page there. Is that what I understood?

[17:52] RANDY MAGEN: Yes.

[17:53] RACHAEL GLICK: Okay. And you, too.

[17:57] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah.

[17:58] RACHAEL GLICK: Okay. I guess I'm wondering when you come across the vast differences, and I'm also wondering what's different between us in terms of our, you know, political values and, and that kind of thing.

[18:24] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah, I wondered that, too. What is different between us? We might discover something.

[18:29] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah, that's right. That's right.

[18:31] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. You know, I, you know, I'm a registered Republican, but I would be what people call a rhino. You know, in Idaho, there's so few Democrats that if, and the Republicans have a closed primary. If you don't vote in the primary, then you don't get to select some of the people who are in political office. So that's why I registered as a Republican. But I don't know. I also, you know, I'm not, I can't say I'm pleased with either party in a lot of ways. Yeah. I don't know. What was your experience with the, with the Trump election?

[19:38] RACHAEL GLICK: I remember going to work the next day and in a retirement community. So with, with really high longevity. These are very, they're, they're privileged. I sort of had a social work job that was cheating because they're very privileged groups. So the issue was aging, but, and they're all also very liberal. And they were, I was astonished how upset they were, how really, truly upset I set they were. And I guess soon after that, I realized how much, how in some ways they're really backwards in their thinking. At the same time, you know, they're, I guess they're used to old fashioned ways of doing things. And the staff is mostly black and they're mostly white and wealthy. And I don't, some of the residents, they, you know, they still want to be called misses or Mister doctor. And it was just kind of startling to me how, how, I mean, I certainly, I can't say a good thing about Trump. I couldn't say a good thing about Trump or, but I think I wanted, I guess it wasn't new. But there's a critical aspect that, you know, some of my family, they're all liberals and I, but they'll jump on the bandwagon really fast and too easy. And I'm just like, wait, let's, not that I'm disagreeing with them, but let's get the full picture. And, which I think that's another example of the residents not getting the clash, their deep seated liberalism and then their old fashioned ways. So, and I think I really, that might have gotten me more motivated to just want to hear, want to hear all sides and, yeah, yeah, but, and, yeah.

[22:33] RANDY MAGEN: I mean, it sounds like you're saying there's a lot of hypocrisy.

[22:37] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah. And I think, but, yeah, I think that they're really, some, some, these are the really unaware of this hypocrisy. And I, and I believe that their heart is where they want it to be. But it's an example of people believing what I do. But there needs to be more critical thought, I think. Not for everybody. I don't want to say that, but for really passionate. Yeah. I always wanted to, you know, my mom would watch MSNBC and she'd be so upset and, you know, it's just like feeding right. To me, it was very similar, or I guess it was very similar to Fox News for republicans.

[23:41] RANDY MAGEN: Right. That's those bubbles I'm talking about.

[23:43] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah. Right.

[23:44] RANDY MAGEN: You know, so how do we get people out of the bubble.

[23:49] RACHAEL GLICK: Right? Well, good question.

[23:53] RANDY MAGEN: You know, I, I don't know what your recollection is of the late sixties, early seventies. I mean, you're, you're a few years younger than me. Not many, but, you know, I, I remember 1968 pretty darn clearly. You know, I was eleven years old and 68, you know, through 72, 74 probably. You know, to me, those were scary times. 68 with the assassination of Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy and riots in the street, democratic national convention, the, you know, the hard hats versus the hippies. And I, that almost gives me some comfort about today. You know, I feel like I've seen similar kinds of ugliness and divisiveness in the United States, and we got through it. And so I'm nothing, I'm not thinking we're about to devolve into civil war or anything. I think we can get through it. It's not pleasant.

[25:10] RACHAEL GLICK: Right. I'm afraid of what I see as a major difference between then and now, and that's the mediaev stuff. And that's, that's scary. And people, that's scary. I guess maybe that's the same thing as not too little critical, too little critical thinking.

[25:41] RANDY MAGEN: What is it about the media that is the scary part?

[25:46] RACHAEL GLICK: Well, I think, I think you can, you can find what you believe and have your beliefs substantiated and someone else who believes something opposite can have those substantiated. And I think that's okay if people know that you've got to look, it's helpful to look in different places. But I guess, but I think that's, I think the power, I think, I think, I mean, when Trump's gone, I think that, I mean, the power of Tucker Carlson is scary. Do you see that or don't agree with that?

[26:41] RANDY MAGEN: You know, I don't listen to Tucker Carlson. Yeah, I've heard of him. And, you know, I think I have some idea of him. I don't know. I think, you know, I don't see it as that much different from the past. I think there have always been people who've been mouthpieces and journalism that's been slanted one way or another. You know, maybe it's that critical thinking you're talking about. Yeah, I don't know. I do think that you just got to talk to each other. You know, we have to, don't we have to listen to each other?

[27:28] RACHAEL GLICK: That's right.

[27:31] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah.

[27:33] RACHAEL GLICK: Right. Right. So could you describe in your own words, your personal political values?

[27:50] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. You know, and this is where I kind of resist some of those labels. Liberal, progressive, moderate. You know, I have some views that are probably liberal and progressive, but, you know, and those mostly have to do with social issues. You know, I'd say around fiscal issues, I'm fairly conservative and, you know, and in some ways almost libertarian. So it depends on the issue. You know, I think there's a lot of value to saying let people do and be what they want to be. You know, and, yes, we have too much government regulation. And, you know, on the other hand, you know, there's certainly a role for government to protect people who are, who are, whose rights are threatened. So, you know, I think the one word phrases don't capture it.

[29:04] RACHAEL GLICK: What's say that again?

[29:06] RANDY MAGEN: Those one word phrases, liberal, progressive, conservative.

[29:09] RACHAEL GLICK: Oh, gotcha. They don't capture, they don't capture it.

[29:11] RANDY MAGEN: They don't capture the complexity.

[29:14] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[29:15] RANDY MAGEN: How would you describe your political beliefs?

[29:20] RACHAEL GLICK: I would say. I think progressive. I would say it sounds like I would believe there's a little bit more role for government than you would think. I think maybe government doesn't get in the way as well. No, let me put it a different way. I think the bigger problem is the vast difference between the wealthy and the very wealthy and everybody else and corporations. And I think maybe this is simplistic because I don't really understand economics, but it seems to me like if there was more taxing on corporations and the most wealthy than there would be enough money to help a lot of people who needed help. And I think the 1% can afford to pay more taxes. And I believe that because I think that people got that way because of the country that they live in. So I don't think that they.

[31:04] RANDY MAGEN: You.

[31:04] RACHAEL GLICK: Know, it's their money and they worked hard for it. I believe that. But that sum of money doesn't happen everywhere, but it happens here in our capitalist country. And thanks to that, you could make that much. And why not give, have to pay more in taxes? And then, you know, and then I think people like, who are more, I know you don't like the labels libertarian. Like, maybe they wouldn't be so upset by the government helping people if it came more out of the pockets of the wealthiest and the biggest corporations.

[32:20] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know either. You know.

[32:28] RACHAEL GLICK: Does any, does, does any of that ring true to you or really none of it does?

[32:38] RANDY MAGEN: Well, it's something, you know, I hear a lot. I think. I think it's unlikely to happen.

[32:56] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[32:57] RANDY MAGEN: You know, and, you know, for the most part, I really don't care about Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos or those people. They, you know, so, you know, I think the government has the ability to help people if it had the willingness to, but so often there isn't the willingness.

[33:32] RACHAEL GLICK: Right.

[33:34] RANDY MAGEN: And what, you know, I, yeah, that's what I think.

[33:42] RACHAEL GLICK: So do you feel powerful or powerless politically or something in the middle?

[33:49] RANDY MAGEN: Oh, that's a really good question. Well, that's, I really like that question. I guess it's somewhere in the middle. I mean, I think I pay attention to political issues and I've tried to be involved in this upcoming election. Bye. You know, supporting various candidates and getting their name out and things like that. I don't feel like I can, I'm really unsure whether that's going to make much of a difference. And then there are things that happen, particularly when we're talking about Supreme Court decisions and things like that, where I feel, you know, completely powerless and just frustrated.

[34:52] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[34:54] RANDY MAGEN: And, you know, so.

[35:00] RACHAEL GLICK: That'S the way I'm almost. There we go. That was it. Yeah, go ahead.

[35:05] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. So it's an interesting question. What about you? What do you feel powerless, powerful or somewhere in between?

[35:13] RACHAEL GLICK: I think I feel, I think I feel powerless, but it might be because I don't know what to do. I mean, doing this feels good and is, you know, you know, it makes me want to have, you know, these conversations in, I don't know. I mean, they should be, you know, if, if they could be set up in communities and, you know, not recorded, maybe, but just come and talk to someone who doesn't think like you.

[36:03] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah.

[36:07] RACHAEL GLICK: Because it really is, you know, it really makes a big difference, I think. Yeah.

[36:21] RANDY MAGEN: Do you vote regularly?

[36:23] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah, I vote, I vote regularly, but, you know, we just, you know, I didn't know all the candidates well. I didn't really follow them, but I, there were a couple that wasn't. So I'm not, you know, I do my duty and. Glad to have done it, but not more than that, I guess. I guess it's, it's, it's racial issues that I feel more just difference in terms of campaigning that I feel like I want to make something happen, you know, just the same, just in terms of race, like storycorps does with politics. And, I mean, I know that's generalizing because, well, for the communities that aren't working well together, I just think if, if people would connect more, you know, that's what we're all, that's what we're doing here.

[37:41] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. You know, that's that's. That's a place where, you know, our lives may be very different. You know, I'm in Idaho. Idaho is 93% caucasian white.

[37:57] RACHAEL GLICK: Wow.

[37:57] RANDY MAGEN: You know, when I leave Idaho, you know, I get on an airplane and step off virtually anyplace else. It's visually different.

[38:10] RACHAEL GLICK: Right.

[38:10] RANDY MAGEN: The people I see. And so, you know, while I am aware of racial issues, and we certainly have, you know, racial animosity between groups here, as well as religious and other animosities, it's not the same as living in Baltimore.

[38:34] RACHAEL GLICK: Right. What about in the social work school, for instance? Is that all white?

[38:43] RANDY MAGEN: Almost.

[38:44] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[38:45] RANDY MAGEN: I mean, we have hispanic students.

[38:47] RACHAEL GLICK: Okay.

[38:48] RANDY MAGEN: Now we have, what, 1218 percent hispanic students.

[38:52] RACHAEL GLICK: Right.

[38:54] RANDY MAGEN: You know, that's an ethnic difference. Not necessarily racial. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's remarkable because it's.

[39:06] RACHAEL GLICK: It's so white in the country. And where you are. Do. Do the latin group have more trouble? Are they outsiders?

[39:20] RANDY MAGEN: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[39:25] RACHAEL GLICK: Do you have large populations of Latin?

[39:28] RANDY MAGEN: Yes.

[39:29] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[39:32] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. Documented and undocumented.

[39:37] RACHAEL GLICK: Right.

[39:37] RANDY MAGEN: You know, you know, working in ad groups or ranching as well as, you know, all kinds of service industries.

[39:46] RACHAEL GLICK: Right. Who. Who are the clients of your social workers to be? Are they tremendous range?

[40:00] RANDY MAGEN: Oh, yeah. I mean, we. You know, we have all. There's no. All the social problems, you know, that are present in Baltimore. Present here maybe in a different scale.

[40:12] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[40:12] RANDY MAGEN: You know, problems with homelessness, you know, aging.

[40:16] RACHAEL GLICK: Right.

[40:16] RANDY MAGEN: Mental health, behavioral health, substance use. You know, maybe the substances are different. You know, people are using meth and, you know, fentanyl, but. Yeah. It's not any different than another part of the country.

[40:36] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah. Right, right.

[40:42] RANDY MAGEN: We haven't talked about the economy. Do you feel the impact of the recession? If we're in a recession?

[40:55] RACHAEL GLICK: Right. So I. I will. So I come from a financially privileged background, so I don't.

[41:13] RANDY MAGEN: I don't either.

[41:14] RACHAEL GLICK: Uh huh.

[41:15] RANDY MAGEN: I mean, I noticed higher gas prices.

[41:19] RACHAEL GLICK: Right.

[41:19] RANDY MAGEN: I notice. I notice things in the store cost more, but I don't feel. And privilege is a good word, you know? I don't feel the pinch of the economy.

[41:35] RACHAEL GLICK: Right. Yeah, that. Right. Privilege is a good word there for. I mean, yeah. For me, it's interesting. My goal there is to make sure my kids know how privileged they are. That's important for me. I mean. Yeah. I mean, they, you know. Yeah, they. Right. Like I wrote in my bio, they get whatever they need for their troubles. You know, there's a. Yeah. So.

[42:12] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. But, you know, it was probably when I went to college that I realized that I had lived a privileged existence. It wasn't until then that I was aware of it that people didn't grow up in the same way that I did or have the same things.

[42:31] RACHAEL GLICK: Right. Were you in Idaho or out of Idaho?

[42:34] RANDY MAGEN: No, I grew up in the midwest. I grew up in Michigan, mostly.

[42:37] RACHAEL GLICK: Oh.

[42:39] RANDY MAGEN: Born in Iowa. Grew up in the midwest. And then after 20 some years in the midwest, I was ready to see mountains and have a different climate. The midwest has absolutely the worst climate in the nation. You get all the nasty weather, the hurricanes, you know, the tornadoes, the thunderstorms. Heat and humidity in the summer, ice and gray skies in the winter. Awful. I have bright sun all winter long.

[43:09] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah. Sometimes I wonder why I don't always live in a sunny place every day, but, yeah. So we don't have much time. Is there anything, well, on your mind?

[43:27] RANDY MAGEN: I mean, I have one more question. It's kind of big, but, you know, how do you know when you talk to other people, how do you make sense of what's happening in the United States right now? I mean, you said it's the media, it's differences. How do you make sense of it? Or maybe you can't.

[43:46] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah, I just, off the top of my head, I think. And it's a good thing for me to remember, I think people are just worried. I. And afraid because times are tough for. And, you know, maybe that should give me more empathy that for people who, you know, maybe have what I would. You know, I shouldn't. I shouldn't label what, you know, what, let's see. You know, there. You know, I mean, people. People are motivated to. By. By the need to take care of themselves and their families. And, I mean, I can't. I can't argue that. And I think. I think fears. I think the fear of people who are not like them, that fear is. I mean, it's a real fear, but it drives a lot of what they do and how they act and how they think, and they're probably not so different from the people they fear. So that's a good question for yourself. What do you, what do you.

[45:16] RANDY MAGEN: I liked what you said, you know, that I think. I think it's sort of the worst of american individualism. You know, everybody is afraid that they're losing something or that they're gonna lose something.

[45:35] RACHAEL GLICK: Right?

[45:36] RANDY MAGEN: And if, if I lose something, then somehow my rights or my, my rights have been trampled upon. And so I have to do everything to keep from losing that, you know? And that's that fear that you were talking about.

[45:57] RACHAEL GLICK: Right.

[45:57] RANDY MAGEN: And this you know, the sense that we're in a community and that we. We can somehow benefit by working together is kind of lost.

[46:09] RACHAEL GLICK: Right, right. And, you know, I think a lot of that comes from what you're saying is that the fear of losing something and maybe losing it to someone else, but I think the pie is big enough for everybody. It's not a zero sum game.

[46:24] RANDY MAGEN: Right, right. That's exactly where I was saying, zero sum game.

[46:27] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's hope. Well, I stay hopeful. Do you stay hopeful?

[46:35] RANDY MAGEN: I do stay hopeful. I mean, by nature, I'm sort of an optimist.

[46:39] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah, me, too.

[46:40] RANDY MAGEN: And so that does help.

[46:42] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[46:44] RANDY MAGEN: Makes me not want to be around pessimists, but.

[46:46] RACHAEL GLICK: Yes. Right. It doesn't easily rub off on them. They don't. Yeah. It just annoys them.

[46:57] RANDY MAGEN: I don't know how we increase optimism in the country. Maybe that's the. What was it? Happy days are here again. Who is that? Was that Roosevelt? You know that song happy days?

[47:11] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

[47:13] RANDY MAGEN: I'll be. Copyright infringement or something.

[47:16] RACHAEL GLICK: Right. That's right. Be careful. I didn't really think we'd get to song, but we did. But. But I do think. I think it goes. I think if we talk more together, then optimism comes. I think that's where it can come from. So it's been a true pleasure. It looks like we're running out of time.

[47:40] RANDY MAGEN: I wish you luck in your work.

[47:44] RACHAEL GLICK: Say that again.

[47:45] RANDY MAGEN: I wish you luck in your work.

[47:48] RACHAEL GLICK: Yes.

[47:48] RANDY MAGEN: And, you know, end of life later. Life is not easy.

[47:56] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah.

[47:57] RANDY MAGEN: And just being a parent is not easy, you know?

[48:00] RACHAEL GLICK: No, it isn't.

[48:01] RANDY MAGEN: You know, I. If anybody asks me, I know we're running out of time. Being a parent is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

[48:08] RACHAEL GLICK: Absolutely.

[48:09] RANDY MAGEN: You know, I love my kids, and my kids were pretty darn easy, you know, get into trouble and didn't have lots of difficulties, but, man, it's hard work.

[48:22] RACHAEL GLICK: I know.

[48:22] RANDY MAGEN: Constant.

[48:24] RACHAEL GLICK: They're always. They're always in my head.

[48:26] RANDY MAGEN: Right. Never goes away.

[48:29] RACHAEL GLICK: No. And I don't know if you've heard, you're only as happy as your least happy child. Have you ever heard that before?

[48:35] RANDY MAGEN: No.

[48:37] RACHAEL GLICK: It'S true to me. But mine are doing well, so I'm doing well.

[48:42] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. Well, that's. That's where our hope lies, maybe.

[48:45] RACHAEL GLICK: That's right. That's right.

[48:48] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah. It was very nice to meet you.

[48:50] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah, you, too, Randy. Take care.

[48:51] RANDY MAGEN: Yeah, you, too. Thank you.

[48:53] RACHAEL GLICK: Yeah, I.