Rachel Barnard and John Duval

Rachel (R) and John (J) about his schooling and places he lived growing up. He lived in Germany.

R asks J is it was a culture shock moving to Oklahoma. He discusses he journey from Kansas to Oklahoma and the surprises it held. He talks about going to college in Columbus, OH and then coming back to Oklahoma University to finish school.

R and J discuss the art museum at OU. J says he lives in the Paseo now, and that neighborhood has a different feel than the rest of Oklahoma City.

J asks R if she felt a culture shock when she moved to Oklahoma. She says yes but in a good way. New York was too fast paced, and she was always trying to push herself to be that way.

J asks R if she was comfortable with the people in Oklahoma. R says her circle centers around the arts, so it was mostly people with liberal views. Even at her church she was able to find kindred spirits.

R talks about her husband, and their life in NY.

J point out the Boston and NY are more progressive places that have more history than Oklahoma, and asks R how she has dealt with "backward" thinking that happens there. R says she focuses on her family and she sees things on the news but it doesn't affect her daily life.

R discusses her experience teaching during the pandemic.

J asks R if her bubble changed at all during the "summer of George Floyd." She mentions taking care of a new puppy during that time, and since she wasn't teaching she said she wasn't as exposed. She references being in college during the Rodney King trial, feeling empathy for her black friends but not knowing how to help, and also feeling guilt for being white, and how those same feelings came up.

J asks R about the cost of privilege. R says she appreciates the fact that she is privileged. J appreciates her answer because it's rooted in gratitude and comfort, not economics or race. He is curious about people's experience with privilege because he thinks it is assumed.

J talks growing up where his family didn't discuss race and expresses his views on privilege. That is is not something people inherently have, it's something people take from others.

J discuss the weight of privilege, and how not allowing others to succeed has been a cost to our country.

R asks J who is trying to prove this assumption. J says we're not living in a democracy; that our government is the interest of a handful of corporations.

R discusses growing up in a white town with only a handful of African American people. When she went to college she was surround by a diverse population made many African American friends and had the desire to interact. Now her circle in Oklahoma is mostly white again.

J discusses being one of 3 black student in is high school in Norman, Oklahoma and how it used to be a sundown town. He doesn't want to ignore all the progress was made, but doesn't want to ignore the history either.

J recounts his experience of being a successful black businessman in Oklahoma in the '80s. He talks about how he was able to skate over the history since he defied the expectation of what a black person in that state should have, and how he's now going back and reckoning with the history.

J and R discuss the Tulsa Race Massacre. J brings up his viewpoint that racism doesn't fall at the feet of one group or victimize one group; that it is not a monolith but a sin of all mankind, and that we need different language to discuss it.

J and R discuss this idea. R says she doesn't feel like a victim of anything.

In the future R hopes we see each other as people first and foremost but is frustrated because she feels we're moving in the other direction. J agrees and is troubled by the language we use that is always dividing us between 'us' and 'them.'

R and J says is was a pleasure to meet and talk today.