Rachel Runfola and Peter Luitwieler

[00:07] RACHEL RUNFOLA: My name is Rachel Runfola I'm 63 years old. The date is July 7, 2022. I'm in the StoryCorps virtual recording booth. I'm here with Peter Luitwieler my one step conversation partner.

[00:25] PETER LUITWIELER: My name is Peter Luitwieler I'm 79 years old. The date is July 7, 2022. I'm in the StoryCorps virtual recording booth. I'm here with Rachel Runfola with my one small step conversation partner.

[00:52] RACHEL RUNFOLA: I'm almost 80 and a Vietnam veteran and a Vietnam combat veteran. I'm from New England but moved to Tulsa in 1985 and love it. I attended Dartmouth College and graduated with a BA and MBA. I can speak Spanish and have lived overseas several times. I was married in 1966. While in service, Marlene and I had three wonderful children. She passed away from a massive heart attack in July 2005. I married a widow in August 2006 and it has worked out well. We have five children and ten grandchildren now. I help veterans.

[01:38] PETER LUITWIELER: I was raised in a small town in Washington state. My father was a Navy veteran from Texas without a high school degree who was very conservative. My mother was college educated and very liberal, so I grew up with both sides of the aisle.

[02:11] RACHEL RUNFOLA: So, Pete, why don't we start with that one question about who influenced us most in our lives.

[02:18] PETER LUITWIELER: Sounds like a good idea. You want to start?

[02:20] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Well, I sure can. So I thought about this yesterday when I actually looked at the email. So one of the biggest influences for me in my life was actually my mother because she, she was always the constant in my life. As frustrating as she could be sometimes, she also was a very, she's turned out, was really a very smart woman and really even predicted some of the things that have come to pass with our country way in advance because she's been passed away since 2003. But one of the things is that she, she ended up raising, I have a brother and a sister and she ended up raising us by herself from about the time I was twelve years old on. So she was a single parent and she was a great mentor in not complaining about my father not being there, not doing his fair share about you. Just move forward and do the best you can with what you have. Live within your means, be fair to people regardless. And also being very good about listening to both sides. She was absolutely a bleeding heart liberal, which sometimes actually, as it turned out, has frustrated me sometimes, but because of her just always pushing us forward and trying to get us to do what was best, I think that's played out well for the rest of my life.

[04:01] PETER LUITWIELER: On my side. My dad passed away when I was in college and he had been very impactful in my life. But I would say the most impactful person happened after that. That was my uncle, his brother, and he kind of assumed the role of my dad for a few years before he passed away. And he was the one that suggested I consider going to graduate school a year early because at Dartmouth they had what's called a three two program, which means three years undergraduate and if you're accepted at the business school, you can start before you finish your even start your senior year. And he talked to the dean and the dean called me and I interviewed with him and I said, but that's just months away. He said, well, young man, a lot of times you don't have all the time you want to prepare for things, but I've got a slot and you certainly are good enough to be accepted. And then I said, well, captain of the rugby team. I said, you can continue to be if you need to drop out because it's grad school, your team will support you. I saw I'm also the rush chairman of my fraternity and that kicks in in your senior year. I said, yes, but it's finished a week after school starts. And I said there was something else in the, he just basically said, well, that's the world out there and I think you will do well. So I accepted it and I didn't do well. I excelled. I did so much better in grad school than I did an undergraduate and I stayed as the rugby captain doing that. And what I learned was if you don't have much time, you schedule. Rachel knows I schedule. So I made much better use of my time. I even got to the point where I was able to help others and he helped me again when I was looking at job opportunities, my uncle did. I said I had a job offer from Gillette and they had a job opportunity for me in Latin America, which is what I wanted. He said, well, he had a classmate that had worked for Gillette and by this time my uncle was in his seventies. This guy was in his seventies. Sounds pretty young now. But anyways, when I talked to this man, he made it very clear that I would be much better off working for an international oil company because they had a more global view and working for Gillette overseas. They would be looking at things from Boston and probably wouldn't understand if there was a significant inflation making everything hard to live by and product sales going down. So I took his advice and it worked out well. And he happened to be a veteran, too, although I didn't know it at the time.

[07:29] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Oh, wow. Well, I think one of the things for us to. The reason that we actually agreed to do this or decide to do this conversation was because the little nonprofit we worked for, our CEO, encouraged us to do this, even prior to the small step opportunity. There was a regular storycorps visit coming to Tulsa earlier this spring, and it just didn't work out. We could do that, but her interest in that was because you and I, we do come from different backgrounds, and we do have really different political views, but because we're working for a common cause, we have put all that aside regardless, and have. We've done very, very well. I think we've had some incredible wins for our state, for veterans, and throughout that. One of the things that I really appreciate about you, Pete, is even in discussions that we've had when we've traveled throughout the state, is regardless of your political views, you always surprised me in how fair you are about different situations. One of them was a story you told about your sister and her situation and her kind of end of life decision. And, you know, you just saying that her decision might not be your decision, but you. You were very supportive about that.

[09:16] PETER LUITWIELER: Just so you know, Julia, she had Alzheimer's, and I knew that. And she came and she and her husband spent a few days with us. I didn't know it at that time, but I asked my brother in law, and he said, yes, she's got Alzheimer's. About four months later, she called me and said that she was going to take a trip with her family to Switzerland, which is where our family is from, spend a few days together, and then check herself into a facility that would let her take her own life or assist. And when she told me that, I had problems with it, because it's not in my belief system, nor was it in hers growing up, but I just realized that that was a huge decision for her, and she discussed it with her family, and who was I to disagree? And I had a chance to be with her one more time, and it was good, and I'm glad I didn't try to convince her the other way. It was tough to do, but I've learned over the years that fight your battles only when it's necessary and try to work with other people. I do have strong conservative beliefs, but I try not to impose them on people because I figure this is an amazing country, and we all have our own beliefs, and that's what makes us such a strong country. But thank you for that comment, Rachel.

[10:54] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Well, and I think even, you know, we also worked with an individual who is incredibly conservative as well, and we got some pushback about having that individual working with us from another ex coworker. And, you know, I absolutely believe that he had the right to voice his opinion, regardless. It wasn't impeding on what work he was doing with us. And I am a strong believer in freedom of speech, regardless if I agree with it or not, it's not my business. And so as long as when we work, we worked together. He did. He performed the function he was here to do. I absolutely backed him up 100%.

[11:43] PETER LUITWIELER: And.

[11:43] RACHEL RUNFOLA: I would anybody else. I have many different coworkers that are from different political backgrounds, and I sometimes listen to people complain about how they could believe that way. And I'm like, well, we don't all get to come from the same place. And you know what? Those people are doing their job, and I am not going to. I'm not going to, you know, think I can change their belief, their belief systems or anything else. As long as they're here to do their job, they do their job, then that's, that's, who am I to change that? So I think, you know, again, that's another reason why Pete and I work well together, is that we. We understand that there's some boundaries there, and we stay by those.

[12:33] PETER LUITWIELER: So, yeah, when I was in business, I had over a thousand people reporting to me, so I had to be pretty open minded to be able to lead them. And I think one of the things I don't ever recall in any open meeting, maybe one on one, but in an open meeting, having any political discussions or religious faith discussions, because not only am I very conservative, but I'm very active in my church and use that as another way to help veterans. But I don't impose that on anybody. But if anybody asks, I'll sure tell them. One of the things. Question I had for you, Rachel, is are there any times that I've been insensitive or anything that I can do differently to make sure I don't cause those problems?

[13:35] RACHEL RUNFOLA: You know, actually, no, I, other than you, you're. That you were a business, business executive. And so I believe that, you know, you unfortunately think like a business executive and sometimes order us around to do things that are really not in our realm of responsibility. But I think you've been absolutely have come become aware of that. We've had that conversation about nonprofits. You just have to suck it up and do it on your own most the time. But honestly, you know, no, I don't believe you are insensitive. When I first met you and we started working, you didn't work for me or with me. And as time has gone on, initially, I thought, oh, gosh, I got to pick up this old guy and work with him somehow. And, you know, he thinks he knows it all. And it's really, it's been good for me because I've had to, you know, almost sometimes eat crow, that the old guy is not just an old guy. He's really got some, some excellent wisdom and advice when it's necessary. And, and if it's something I already know, then I'd just say thank you and move on. But again, I think that your business background and everything you've done has absolutely helped us along with us being pushed by our former Oklahoma state general Robinson. I mean, same thing. He's got so much experience that, that he pushed us along to do some things that we probably wouldn't have done otherwise. But he knows the path, he sees the path, and so we do it. And I think that's the same with you, is that you've got that experience of life, and so, you know, there's the path, and so to follow it, we gotta move along. There's times wasting. So, no. And I certainly hope that I have not, hopefully been insensitive.

[15:54] PETER LUITWIELER: No, definitely not. You couldn't be with all the people reporting to you. If you did, you'd have a lot of people departing, and they're not. That's good. And I think I've seen you in the past four or five years really grow in your job. Your responsibilities have increased, but you've grasped it and led them through Covid, which was totally difficult for, I mean, just so you know, Julia, we, we had to keep the doors open during COVID and that wasn't easy. And Rachel set the example. That's what a leader has to do. So she did a great job. I will make a comment here. Comment about retaining my business role. It's a comment that my wife Jane, has reminded me of several times, that I'm no longer at the office and that I can suggest but not order. It's been a change I've adapted to, hopefully.

[17:08] RACHEL RUNFOLA: So we've got this little prompt in our chat box. One thing I will say about my worldview, what helped develop my worldview was when I was early on, I went to college before I went into the air force, and I had an opportunity to backpack across Great Britain and Europe. And I was only about 20 years old and going to a foreign country, lots of foreign countries. I went all over, really opened up my eyes how people in different places live differently than we do in the United States. And that also helped me to understand that just because we live a certain way in our country doesn't mean it. We necessarily have the right to force others to follow that path, that they are shaped by their worldview, as I'm shaped by my worldview, how I was raised, and so. And that also, we are incredibly, incredibly fortunate in our country to live in the environment that we do, regardless, because not everybody, even in Europe, was as lucky and had everything that we had. I certainly learned that in my time in the air force, I had an opportunity to go to. I was stationed in Japan, and I went to Korea, and that was even. It was South Korea. But that was really eye opening, the way that they lived in some of the rural areas. It just absolutely shocked me. So I think people take what we have here for granted a lot of times, and they don't understand that it could be so much worse for us. Even our ability, just how we live at our standard of living, let alone our ability to be as free as we are, to have the right to speak our mind and to do and to move around our country, uninhibited people just do not understand that. We are absolutely, incredibly lucky to do that.

[19:18] PETER LUITWIELER: I think, building on that, I would say that I've lived overseas, including Vietnam, but that's a little different in at least three different countries and spent time in hundreds of countries with foreign assignments, etcetera. And it does open your eyes. It makes you more global in your outlook and more understanding. And if you become rigid and you're in a business environment, you're going to be unsuccessful. And in a nonprofit, the same thing holds true, although I never thought of it that way until today, that you need to be flexible to deal with people you work with, but even more so with people, people that you serve. And, you know, when we deal with veterans, they're from all walks of life, but they all need help or they wouldn't be in touch with us. And that's one of the things that connects RacheL and I extremely well, that we know where we're headed. We may differ sometimes on how we get there, but that doesn't stay that way very long. One of us will switch, generally, me, to the way that the other person has suggested because we want to make something successful. And I think the overall success of both Rachel's SSVF organization and the Oklahoma veteran alliance reflect that. And it doesn't pay to be stubborn, that's for sure. Now, my, my background, I grew up in a conservative family, even though it was in Massachusetts. But many times I've gone across the aisle to vote because I always wanted the best person elected. I like to vote for people that have similar views, whether it be on economics or faith or cultural aspects. But not everyone that runs for no one, that one runs for office is perfect, and they rarely hit all the boxes. So I try to pick the person that I think would be best for the country or the city or the state or whatever it happens to be. But no question, I have a conservative bent in the way I speak or interact.

[22:08] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Yeah, I've got to say that from my experience working with this nonprofit and working with homeless veterans, that I probably, while I'm probably a little more socially liberal, I'm certainly becoming more conservative in how I approach a lot of working with that particular population. Because what I've come to understand is that if that individual does not have skin in the game, if they don't want to bear some responsibility for where they're at and how to move forward, then it comes down to we're wasting our time. Because in this goes across the board with anybody. Again, this is just my personal belief. There becomes a time when you're enabling people rather than helping them. And if they don't work, if they're not willing to work as hard as you are for them, then you can work as hard as you want. They're never going to move from the mark they're in today. I think people would be surprised at, like I said, even though I tend to be more socially liberal, I just monetarily. And where people should, what they should be doing and the amount of responsibility they should bear with their own actions. I absolutely am becoming more conservative with that. And sometimes I think Pete is willing. Pete has the kindest heart and he would bend over backwards for anybody. I'm just thinking, Pete, don't waste your time and money on that person.

[23:49] PETER LUITWIELER: That turns out to be right.

[23:50] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Generally, they're not going to come through, unfortunately. So we'll have somebody that he sends to us that they're in a horrible way. And I'm like, yeah, they're in a horrible way because we dealt with them for three years and they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing. But he always, always thinks the best of everybody and wants to see them succeed, even if they're not willing to help themselves. So I appreciate that that's my liberal Benson. Yeah, absolutely. He's a bleeding heart with all veterans.

[24:24] PETER LUITWIELER: Correct.

[24:25] RACHEL RUNFOLA: If I can ask a question, Pete, it sounds like your faith has been very important to you throughout your life.

[24:34] PETER LUITWIELER: How has that shaped how you view.

[24:38] RACHEL RUNFOLA: The world and the work that you do now?

[24:43] PETER LUITWIELER: Thank you for the question, but it's only been in the last, say, 17 years. Up until then, I was a churchgoer, but I didn't read the Bible. I didn't understand what I understand today about what a christian means. And after my wife passed away, there was a course being offered at my church called the Alpha course. It's a global course, and it helps you understand faith. And I needed something to help put their arms around me to get me stable, and it was once a week, it provided a free meal, and it was people from my church, so I felt comfortable sharing my story. But more than that, I learned about learning. And when I met my present wife, her faith was 100 times stronger than mine, and that boosted it again. And then I've been in church that have really stressed it, so it has. I've had people that I used to work with at Citgo come up to me and just say, man, have you changed? And that's just been since I retired in 2000, but really after 2005. So, yes, it's a key part of what I do. My wife and I pray every day together out loud, so we know we do that intentionally, out loud, so we know what's on each other's hearts, and that's helped us. So it's had a big part in my life, both with veterans and with others. And that's why I started the veterans group from our church. We now have two people that aren't even from our church that heard about us, that are veterans, because they just felt comfortable in our group. And we don't push the faith. We just talk about each other and how we can help each other indirectly. We're expressing what God wants us to do, but we don't push it. And, Rachel, how about you? Are you a person of faith, or.

[27:07] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Has religion played a role in your life? Well, it has on and off. It's. I. My family on my mom's side was very involved in a Methodist church when I was growing up. And then because she went to work full time and she didn't have the time to really get us there, we didn't really weren't as involved in it. I went through a time in my, probably my third, late thirties, forties, became very involved in a USA Presbyterian church I have read the Bible several times. Some of it resonates with me, some of it does not. And although I'm really. I would say I'm probably more of a spiritual person, I'm not necessarily. Well, I don't belong to a church, and I honestly don't have any interest in going to a church. In the world we live in today. I sometimes find organized religion to be problematic in many cases. Again, Pete is not an example of some of the organized religion that I certainly have a difficulty with. And so I can appreciate where he's coming from and absolutely support any kind of, you know, spiritual development that he's. He's had in that way. I just. For me, it's. It actually makes me almost uncomfortable, so I just don't. I don't participate.

[28:50] PETER LUITWIELER: Yeah, I know. I remember one time, oh, about 20 years ago at the lutheran church I was in, they wanted us to go out into the neighborhoods and talk to people about joining the church. And I looked at my wife, and I said, that's something I can't do. And now I would do it in the heartbeat. I don't tend to do it other than if somebody crosses my path and they feels right to talk to them and they like it. But I would not go around the neighborhood now and ask people to go to my church. I think that's something they need to decide. But if they asked me, I'd bend their ear if they wanted it.

[29:46] RACHEL RUNFOLA: You both also mentioned your time in the service. I'm wondering if you could both talk a little bit about what your transitions back to the US were like and how that period impacted both of you.

[30:05] PETER LUITWIELER: I'll go first. Rachel.

[30:10] RACHEL RUNFOLA: You want to go first?

[30:11] PETER LUITWIELER: Oh, okay. I will.

[30:13] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Okay.

[30:15] PETER LUITWIELER: When I came back from Vietnam, I had a. Another year of service, and that was. They have what they call a dream sheet that you fill out and you say where you want your next assignment to be. They tell you to put your first choice third because they'll never give you the first two. But I put it first, and it was at Fort Devens and outside of Boston, because it was a chance to have my wife get to know my mother better, etcetera. And it was a national security base for military intelligence. So that transition back went well. But when I returned to Pittsburgh with my wife, I think there was a reception at her house. When I got back to Vietnam, at her parents house, and some neighbors came over and were very openly happy to see me there and thank me. But this one lady was just obstinate about saying how wrong the war was, and how could I serve for a war like that? And I just turned around and left and went in the house and told my mother in law that I couldn't be out there with that lady. She either had to leave or I was going to. So she basically asked her to leave, and they both totally agree it was just not the proper thing to do. But after I finished my term in service, I'd been working for Gulf oil before. I went in for two and a half years, and they kept a job open for me. I was what was called high potential, so they moved me very rapidly. So it was an easy transition back into the workspace. I talked to people today, and it is rough unless that situation exists for you. So I've got a real heart for helping people, because I know how fortunate I was that it went smoothly for me. And my former boss, who turned 93 about eight months ago, passed away about three months ago. He was a big impact in my life, and he made sure that job opening was there when I came back. And he did not serve, but he was in the state Department, so he understood what public service was like.

[32:52] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Yeah. So when I was in the service, active duty, five and a half years. And except for my basic training in technical school, I was stationed overseas the entire time, which wasn't a bad thing. It was actually great. But when I transitioned back to the United States, I didn't have a job. I was married at the time, and so we came back. We did have some savings, fortunately, but we had to transition back and then look for work and do all that. I fortunately landed in Hartford, Connecticut, with a job with American Airlines. I had a. I had learned a skill in the service that was great. I was basically a telecommunications engineer. I've always had a job. After. After I left the service, it was. It was awesome. I mean, I couldn't have asked for better paid well, everything else. But I went to Hartford, got settled. We got settled there. And unfortunately, most of the people that worked in this communication center were also previous military. My boss was previous military, and that probably was a good thing, but I had been especially overseas. You are so. You're so tight and close with your coworkers and with others around you that when I left, I felt absolutely. It took me years to understand this. I felt a huge sense of loss, and I could not, for life of me, understand why. And, I mean, as time went on, you know, we moved forward. You just kind of get over it. But it wasn't until I actually came to work for this nonprofit in veteran services that it was mentioned that leaving the service because. Because of that environment, because of how you're trained, because of how it goes, that that is absolutely not an unusual experience to just basically feel like the rug's been pulled out from underneath you and you have a huge sense of loss. And so I guess it was nice to know that in retrospect, but that's one of the things that even for people that serve a short period of time, this is not a great word to use, but you basically become indoctrinated in an entirely different system of life. And even if you don't want to believe that that is the case, it is the case, and it's not bad. It's just the way it is. It's for a purpose. And when you leave, even if you left because you wanted to leave, you just aren't prepared for what's coming. It is an absolute sense of loss. So that's helped me in how we enter. I interface with people, and as they move on, especially younger individuals that I come across that aren't even part of my program, that I have. I certainly have a respect or a soft heart or whatever you want to call it, that it's a tough transition, no matter what. It just is.

[36:05] PETER LUITWIELER: I think in my case, being in military intelligence, after going through ocs, I made close friends in OCS, but those, we all went different ways. And military intelligence, you didn't, at least I did not find myself building strong bonds. People would be moved in, and six months later they'd move on or I'd be moved in country. And I did not keep contact with any of them other than the major who became head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, much to my surprise. But I did not feel a sense of loss when I left Fort devens. We had two couples we were good friends with, and we stayed in touch with them, visited them, but that was about it. But very different than what you were doing. And I totally agree. For 95% of the people, leaving the military creates a loss, and it's hard.

[37:08] RACHEL RUNFOLA: To adjust to, I think, for, in my case, just because I was overseas for so long. And on those bases, you do develop probably closer friendships and closer camaraderie with those individuals because you're in a foreign country. I think if I had been stationed stateside, even in a mobile unit, I still think it probably would have been different because you're naturally still around what's common to you. That's true. I think that made some difference.

[38:07] PETER LUITWIELER: I guess my comment on Rachel's beliefs, what I know of them, I respect them all, because I believe people ought to have their own beliefs and morals and follow their moral compass. If it's different than mine, so be it. And sometimes that creates issues, but not in this particular situation. I can't think of another question, but I'm open to any idea.

[38:45] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Yeah, I'm trying to think of another question as well. I just. Nothing's coming to mind.

[38:56] PETER LUITWIELER: I'm happy to jump in and pose a question. How are the lives that you've each.

[39:04] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Lived either the same or different from what you imagined as you were growing up?

[39:18] PETER LUITWIELER: From my point of view, if I had ever thought I would be as successful as it turned out to be and that I would go into combat and come back and that I'd have the children I've had and who's. I mean, none of that was in what I expected. So. The Lord has been good, and I've had a great life. My dad died when he was 61, and I always worried about getting to be 62, and now I'm almost 80, so I feel blessed.

[39:52] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Yeah. I would say for me, that I've dealt with anxiety all my life and kind of border on some depression. And when I was younger, I was incredibly, painfully introverted, which probably would surprise people now, but I forced myself. That's part of the reason I went in the service. I forced myself into positions to try to overcome that. And then, of course, I'm so old now that, you know, it was before any medication or anything, people just didn't take that kind of stuff. You just figured out how to move on and cope. So. So, anyway, I have. I mean, if you told me even 20 years ago I'd be doing what I am today, I just have been just so incredibly lucky in my life to land always on my feet and always able to move ahead right now. I always tell people the job I'm doing right now is a perfect. I call it end of life career. I mean, I'm able to help people. I meet a lot of different people. I'm able to influence change, fortunately, because I've been lucky to, you know, have a co worker like Pete who. Who understands how to work the system better than I've ever could. So, you know, who. Who wouldn't be happy with where. I mean, I'm ecstatic where I'm ending up, because anytime, to me, you can make things better and help people. That's a win.

[41:38] PETER LUITWIELER: I agree with that. And is there anything that you wish.

[41:44] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Civilians knew about the veterans that you both serve.

[41:56] PETER LUITWIELER: Well.

[41:57] RACHEL RUNFOLA: I do wish that people, you know, twofold, like with what Pete had to go through with when he returned from Vietnam, that was absolutely ridiculous. When you're called to serve, or if you do serve in that situation, it doesn't matter what your personal beliefs are, you're doing what you've been asked to by your country. And that's not. That wasn't something that he just one day signed up to do just for the heck of it. I mean, you just go and you do what you're told to do. And I believe that our country has come around, but it's absolutely tragic that anybody that returned from Vietnam was treated the way they were. Likewise, in today's environment, even in our own service, people that return, we've dealt with veterans that they were trained to go and fight, kill people, and to turn around, come home and just try to be normal again, and that is impossible. You're forever changed. You're forever changed if you even don't. If you don't even have to ever pick up a gun and shoot somebody. Just being in a situation where you're worried for your life or watching people be harmed, it forever changes you. And so to expect people to come back and be normal is ridiculous, or quote unquote normal. So I wish that people would understand that some of these veterans that come back that have extreme PTSD, have moral injury, have whatever it is that does not enable them to live a quote unquote normal life, that we understand that as a country, we owe those people for going and doing what they did, and we get the luxury of sitting back in our easy chair and once in a while seeing something we don't care for on the news. So I sometimes feel like even our VA doesn't feel like, fully comprehend what they should be doing for those individuals. And as a country, we should absolutely, you know, thank them any way we can. And that includes, if we have to financially take care of them for some period of time, then we need to do that.

[44:04] PETER LUITWIELER: I can't add to that. That was beautiful. Thank you. Rachel, is there anything that gives you.

[44:14] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Hope for the future, either in your work or in this challenging political time that we're in?

[44:25] PETER LUITWIELER: Yeah, I guess from my point of view, I always look at the glass being half full, and I'm optimistic about the world, optimistic about what we're doing with veterans. We've grown from just helping some people in the Tulsa area, and now we're statewide. People call Rachel, they call me, they ask for advice, and we're just a little small operation, but yet we seem to have an impact on the state. And I think the US is going to go through cycles like it always has and it'll get better. I think the, the economic situation is horrible right now, but it'll come back. I don't know when. I hope sooner rather than later.

[45:17] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Yeah, I'd agree with Pete. One of the things, though, that gives me a lot of hope for the future, actually, which lots of people disagree with, is our young people. They still are moving forward. I have a lot of young people that work on my staff and they are hard workers. They have excellent work ethic. I know every generation says, you know, those young people, they just don't do what they're supposed to be doing. Well, they do do it. They may do it differently than I did it. They do it differently than when Pete was coming through. But I'm sure that his, his grandparents or you would have been complaining about how he was doing things. Certainly my grandparents would probably complain about however I was doing things. I'll probably complain about how my grandchildren are going to do things. But, you know, every generation picks it up and they move forward and we do. We, as a country, we do move forward. It just may not be how I want it to go, but it is going to move forward. And I absolutely agree with Pete. We are a cyclical nation. We can't be ebb and flow. Sometimes we're conservative, sometimes we're more progressive. And it's like a pendulum clock. We swing back and forth. You know, I think the main center of the country keeps us, keeps us on track, fortunately, overall. But I still have hope because I still believe our young people are going to, they'll pick it up and they'll take us forward.

[46:47] PETER LUITWIELER: Before we wrap up, I'd love to.

[46:49] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Know if there's anything that you feel you've learned about each other that you either didn't know or that surprised you.

[47:05] PETER LUITWIELER: I guess I learned more deeply about Rachel, but nothing that surprised me. I didn't know about her mother raising a family by herself. But that doesn't change my views about Rachel. It just makes it even more, more impressed than I was that she's been able to create the life that she has created and do the things that she's doing. But overall, I knew enough about her, but now I know more. I'm thankful for that.

[47:40] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Yeah, I'd say the same about Pete. We've been really, I've been really lucky to travel around with him. And especially in the last year, we've had some pretty good chitty chats and. Yeah. And so I just have a great respect for Pete. He's a super, super individual.

[47:59] PETER LUITWIELER: Can I quote you on that in the next meeting?

[48:01] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Yes, you can. Always. Is there anything else either you'd like to share?

[48:11] PETER LUITWIELER: I can't think of anything.

[48:12] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Yeah, listen, Pete's supposed to retire after the end of this year, but he did kind of mention he would still work for 10 hours a week. So I'm like, okay, you threw that. You threw that. You threw that out there in the water. So you threw that bobber out there in the water. Feet. So we're still going to count on maybe 10 hours a week.

[48:33] PETER LUITWIELER: Jane says that's all right. That'll keep me out of her hair for 10 hours a week, right?

[48:41] RACHEL RUNFOLA: Exactly. Well, thank you both so much.

[48:47] PETER LUITWIELER: All right, what do we do now.