Randy Ham and Anthony Lower

00:00 Start the recording go ahead with those intros Anthony Anthony lower. I am 56 years old. Today is December 5th 2020. I'm in Philadelphia and my conversation partner is Randy ham who is my best friend forever?

00:21 Hi, my name is Randy ham. I just turned 48 a week ago. Today's date is Saturday December 5th, 2020. I am in Odessa, Texas and my conversation partner is Anthony lower and as he said he is my best friend for life. So now that we've got that out of the way my first question to Anthony is how did you discover the Teen Titans? And why do you relate so much through them?

00:56 I don't know where I was reading a Justice League comic book because I read that because Wonder Woman is my favorite character of all time. And that's how you get more Wonder Woman is by reading her book in the Justice League book in the never The Crossover with the Teen Titan V teenage superheroes, and there's a character named Raven Ravens deal is that she's half demon. She wants to be a good person. But if she gets too much into our emotions, they take over her and think bad things happen to see if it's kind of high what she is and who she is or people and as a gay man in the 1980s, I could really relate to that.

01:42 So I really cute into that character and I I loved the book. It was a little soap opera, but for me going through it, like gay people go to kind of at the late adolescence and I was going through that teenage soap opera. At the point of the story for me written.

02:03 So

02:05 Yeah, the rest is history kind of thing Ravens are character. Now that is pretty popular back. Then. She was kind of obscure and hardly anyone knew who she was right. Nobody. Nobody knew who she was and you know, I I discovered it. I remember being in a supermarket store with my mother and they had those old spinner racks and it had the Teen Titans issue where the Puppeteer was the villain. So you saw the Teen Titans hanging on the by puppet strings and front and center was Wonder Girl and same with you is, you know, Wonder Woman so I'm like, okay. Well, she's related to Wonder Woman. Let's figure out what she's doing with these people and I bought that one and started reading it and then I also cute into Raven at a younger age.

03:01 So for a long time, I didn't know why I queued into Raven, but I just I just knew there was something she had a secret. I had a secret. I didn't know but they were especially being in Texas it was you know in it in a very small conservative town at that time, especially it was very very tiny town. I didn't have anybody to talk to you. I didn't have you know anybody to help with coping mechanisms. So what I had was comic books and I had the music of Stevie Nicks and that kept that kept me sane. And so when did you discover Stevie Nicks Anthony? I was a freshman in college again back in the 80s and I was eating in the cafeteria.

03:58 And the college I went to and I heard this song which I now know is called Belladonna, which was from her first Stevie Nicks his first solo. I just heard it was literally about the hand the person money and I kind of just stopped in my tracks cuz like the lyrics are speaking to me it was so the musicality everything everything was like that's what happened and then 420 ready is you know, it's raining and I have I I love Raven. I love Wonder Woman

04:34 Stevie Nicks is right there with your suit after started listening to the entire album and more of Stevie Nicks music. I started to Raven see there's actually a 17 just like a white boy and unrequited love and holding in your emotions and don't show people things and then there was this one cover which I know he does exactly what you wanted book cover. I'm talking about where Raven holding her Kpop and she's kind of twirling and that's what Stevie Nicks would you want steak? And I was like, okay, that's I'm seeing if they are. I have this connection and like this these things came together and these were things that meant so much to me in pop culture of it, you know helps me, you know, make it through the day make it

05:34 My adolescence take it to my young adulthood, you know.

05:38 Not only that not only did she have the spinny thing on my cover. But her word balloon was Gravely it it may seem like a very Gravely voice which is exactly what Stevie Nicks has two. So basically we were seeing Stevie Nicks in comic book form and I was thinking the same thing, Delphia. I'm about 27 years old maybe right and I'm all the way in Texas and I am you know, 12 13, 14 15 sing this 2223 from your age, but it was really cool at the time. I just moved from Fort Stockton to Odessa and I

06:38 In high school and that's like the worst time for a kid to move because like you said adolescence is very angsty and full of drama and that year. I was in a new town. I had a new dad. I had to go to a new school and I already didn't have a lot of friends anyway, and I just made things worse. And so I was very, you know, angsty teen throw myself on the bed and crying listening to Stevie Nicks and the only things that brought me Comfort at the time were Stevie Nicks and the Teen Titans and so I finally kind of found a group of people that I could hang out with and that was at theater. There's another clue about how different I was that you didn't you're still not aware that you're gay. You're still just

07:29 Something's going on. I wonder why I'm different than the other guys in my class. Like I knew I just didn't know I knew and I didn't know how to verbalize and I didn't know how to articulate it. I still remember to this day and and probably nobody else in my family remembers but has a very very young child. I remember watching Three's Company, right and Mom is driving me to school one day and my sisters are in the back and I'm like Mom what does gay mean, you know and like in my in my head that she slammed on the brakes. I don't think she did say she was just like ripping the steering wheel. Happy happy man on Three's Company, you know what that kind of thing. So if I was asking that question at that age, I knew what was going on. I just didn't I was so not like you again.

08:29 In accounting class

08:32 And I was sitting in the corner and I have my head leaning against the wall. That's a border one and I'm daydreaming all the sudden. I just text me back that it wasn't like it is so wonderful. So relieved to just figure it the hell out of excited. I knew that you know, it was something else that I can talk about it. There was nobody I can tell I was really really depressed about the whole thing.

09:32 So I continued with my studies and Theater which really helped me learn how to play a role and not be myself which right it's helpful today. Like I'm really happy that I went to the theater. That is the time. I think it was probably the only way I could cope was to learn how to be somebody else turns out I'm a really bad actor though because in in February of 1991, I was cast as the small but very pivotal role of toy soldier number 3 in The Velveteen Rabbit, and so I had a lot of

10:22 Free time in in the rehearsal. So I would sit there in the green room and I started just bring you stacks of comics for me to read and on that particular day. I was reading new Titans number 72 for an 7474. Thank you 74 new Titans number 74 and this still amazes me and kind of creeps me out to this day that back then you could ride up you can read the letter column in the back and they printed not only your letter to the editor but your name and your address like privacy concerns stalking concerned all that. So I turn the page and there was a letter that signed off at the very bottom don't you think Raven would make a great singer songwriter allaw Stevie Nicks?

11:22 And my world just throws what you had an accounting classes when I had four in that room. I was like, oh my God, there is somebody out there like me. There was somebody else out there. I wrote it to her all of Raven story and at the end of it all of her turmoil was kind of resolved. She's no longer hiding she can control her motion. She could be who she wanted and she was still good, but they kind of didn't know what to do with the character anymore. So they kind of just disappeared. So I wrote to the comic book saying just don't kill Raven. Please please me to bring her back and then I signed off with that sentence just to be funny. Just just like maybe they'll read it and remember it. I was when I printed it I was shocked.

12:22 I turned the page where there's my name and address and

12:30 You know, it was a couple of months later that I get. Oh, that's why I was by that time. I was about twenty-seven. I was living on my own. I had a roommate and I found a letter in my email box from Odessa, Texas in my email. They didn't know the letter was typed. But the envelope with handwritten I think.

13:00 And yeah, I'm like what on Earth is this? I had no idea what it could be. I'm not thinking about the comic book months later. And I threw it in my bag. I went to school. I was working. I had dropped out of college. The first time was actually in called again. I'm working full time and going to school full-time. Like what's this? I do it my backpack. I went to school. I went to work and came home. I'm studying and what is that and it's from this 18 year old kid and this little tiny town in Texas writing to me telling me. Hey, I see what you say about Stevie Nicks and Raven. I'm a big fan.

13:38 What else do you know what else to do? I know you worry about them. And you mentioned Wonder Woman which was the dancing was like wow this year. I want to hand me a letter. I'm so busy. I have so much going on and the other hand is like this is so cool. I just I remember to this day. I remember that moment. I remember sitting in the green room. And I remember where all the furniture was and everything. It was just like shot and what I don't remember how I got from that point to haul like, how did I finish rehearsal get my car drive over him because I was I just had this purpose and I sat down and I grabbed my stepfather's typewriter and I put the paper and I just started typing and I didn't even know what I was going to say and I did I talk about Raven I talked about Stevie Nicks. I talked about comic books and and Wonder Woman and I think I even said something.

14:38 Oh, yeah. I said I'm going to create a comic book hero based on Stevie Nicks and song Rhiannon what we know how and I just I said I would love for you to write me back and you know, what here's my address and and I absolutely had every confidence in the world that you were going to write back because I would every every day I would come home from school and I would check the mailbox or I'd ask my mother if I was so busy but working full-time job going to school full-time accent another job on the weekends one day a week and I love that that happened but I was like, I'm trying to keep my head above water but I think it was like three weeks maybe and I finally went I'll let me right back to this kid, you know, let me say hi. You know, I was trying to keep it light because you know, I'm like I'm writing this.

15:38 Lansdowne the way writing this young guy a letter what are people going to think of it? You know because yeah, yeah. I know you are stray cat. I just assumed that you didn't say anything different. I assumed you were I was like maybe not but I didn't know so I remember writing but right thanking you for it and it's a little more about you. I see the connection and and oh, yeah, I love Wonder Woman 2 and yeah my favorite CD a song with this and I thought that wasn't the end of it like I have a nice life.

16:11 Call later. See you later. No, no, no, no. No, that's not what happened. I got that and I was even more elated and I wrote you back that course. I'm in highschool. I have like two things to worry about graduating and my four lines as the toy soldier in Velveteen Rabbit. I'm going to have money for food this weekend and get Brian my tuition and rent and all my God. What do I get to do?

16:46 But you know, you did such a good job of that. I've never really articulate on you. So it you know, I think it was about three or four letters later cuz I did the same thing. I thought you were straight you thought I was straight and then I need to tell somebody and you told me in a letter and I told to you and then you wrote me back. I'm trying not to tear up right now. I was like

17:29 You know this I ever see was too so many emotions like this poor kid in the middle of Texas and there's no one he can turn to and I'm going to be there for him going to try to be there for him. And yeah just a kindred spirit thing again, you know was like, wow the odds that we always shared interests and just yeah, I did I show that letter is so many people live in this is so cute. You going to bring him back right? Of course, I am I I clung to those letters they were they were really my lifeline for a long time. And you were so the thing is you were you are exactly the same person today as you were then because you were so positive and happy and I am in encouraging and you know, you made me feel like I was going to be okay and I would have a good life. And so do you always say that

18:29 And I and I appreciate that and I am happy that I was there for you, but you never realized I would keep I was barely keeping my head above water. I didn't know what was you did the same thing for me. You kept me going you kept it was either you or this Forest it made me feel like you know, I happy to not only can I do it but I have to do it have to do it. I have to show this this guy that's like 8 years younger than me the teenager that you know, ya gave his life for the gay man piece of cake you can be happy. You can have everything you want. You know, you don't have to worry about the other people around you if they accept you good if they don't so what you have your chosen family and here I am, you know,

19:17 Edit Bears a bears mentioning you were single at the time is right. Yes. Yes. I do. I love keeping those. I still have all of the all of the types Letters by their email and texting. So let me ask you this. What did you think when I wrote and said I'm saving up my money and I'm going to buy a Greyhound bus ticket and come visit you in Philadelphia. I'm going to get arrested by his parents. That's what I remember you were coming because you were touring doing a tour colleges in the air. That was my that was my

20:17 Also

20:26 Right because there was a picture of Lynda Carter in one of the doorman dress right there, right? So you came yet we can you came to Philly. We toward a couple of colleges and colleges you came back and my roommate and I you stated our place and we're all week.

20:45 I stay there for a week and we didn't take a single photo on the entire week. I am so so mad about that bar. Yes. I lost your umbrella at that gay bar, I remember that.

21:05 But yes.

21:08 And then like you said, so one more thing about the letters cuz you mentioned the other eventually we stopped writing because of the modern technology, but there was a period where I did stop writing back as frequently.

21:22 I would get three or four letters from you. You would not give up on me. And that what encouragement that I'm talking about. You were such a Lifeline for me and you still right now and you don't get it.

21:36 Take me to the shirt. So thank you. Well you I admire the fact that you did a good job at hiding those things from I'm glad that you don't now but you know, I said young impressionable kick you gave me this really did give me this world for you that everything is going to be okay. Everything's going to work out you were the it's better it gets better than you know, I was it was really wonderful and and it wasn't until about two years ago that that you you finally told me that that you were like, it was not good. It was terrible. I had a hard time and I didn't know that I didn't know that for all these years.

22:30 I need to so what do you think would have happened had you gone to the comic book store that day and that comic book have been sold out or wasn't there? What would your life be like?

22:42 What would or would it be you think you'll be back play different?

22:47 Well, yes, absolutely. It would be best lie different because you would not be in my life and you're not.

22:57 You're not a placeholder. It's not like there would be a different Anthony OD New York without Broadway. I don't want to.

23:28 I don't want to think that it would be like I would be living, you know in a crappy apartment, you know and not being able to make ends meet or anything like that. But I do think that we have given each other the support we needed to get absolutely where we are today. Absolutely.

23:51 Because we both have long-term Partners. You have a husband that you and Nick have been together almost as long as phone. I think it is. Yeah. I am in Tom and I are going out to be 7 I think and you know, all of the things that came with that in the in the jobs that we have even to that, you know, the careers that we have in the and the fact that we were able to do this and in the other thing is that after I went to

24:26 Philadelphia for that week when I was 19. We didn't see each other. We were not in a room together again for 20 years, right the next time we saw each other my husband.

24:42 Do a surprise party for me and him and Randy were in cahoots and I was by my brother on my birthday. Like, you know, I came home and I one of my sister-in-law said there's Randy standing I can and I I I remember going down on one knee cuz it collapsed while I collapse under me and then I just gave you the biggest hug other and it was just the best moment was so funny and so much joy, there is great.

25:25 I wish I was so mad for like 20 seconds because you actually want. What the hell did I do smell down on the knee and thank God I caught myself with the countertop.

25:43 Yeah, it was great. I loved it and it was captured on film and on video. Yes. Yes. Tom took the best photo of the two of us hugging and then now we get to see each other. Usually when there's not a global pandemic. We see each other about once a year and go to some other city and Nashville to see Lynda Carter in concert and meet her and tell her story. So like Randy said we were writing letters back and forth forever and then we started communicating on, you know, America online.

26:43 Comic book message board and the email and Facebook and then you know, you came to see me how long after that. I worked. One of my I had a part-time driver my part time job on the weekends was working in a diner and a tighter. I met a lot of people in Philadelphia. One of them was it was the same after our first letters a jewelry shop that make custom jewelry and he would always chat me up in that we talked about Stevie Nicks cuz I talk to everyone about Stevie Nicks Raven.

27:36 Which I'm wearing a piece right now that I went to invite me to come see the shop and hold out this tray of a little necklaces and medallions. She's like, yeah, I'm convinced. She commissioned me to make these for her staff. And so

27:56 One with a 1991 he

28:01 Got me a backstage pass to go meet her at a concert. So he said get a ticket when you're there. Before we go. Tell me your ticket number your seat number. I'll come see you. I'll give you the backstage pass any day. And then I went to afterward I'm like figuring out what do you do to go backstage? I figured I went back and I'm staying there. I'm alone all by myself. There's other fans there but and someone comes into Steve he's not feeling well. She won't be able to come in tonight. I'm sorry.

28:29 It's always like heartbroken cuz I wanted to meet her and tell her some of the stuff. So the next night I'm home in bed moping like 7 at night light and my phone rings are roommates. Like it's that guy from the jewelry store and he's like Stevie's on her way to the store. She's going to come about midnight. She wants to come so there won't be any crowds. I let her I asked if you could come meet her so I went there and I got there early and I'm in the store and I'm like freaking out. Where am I going to be posed and Stevie Nicks and then he comes over the guy comes over the guy driving a limo wants to come in to do you mind my mind watching the limousine but

29:27 Randy knows I never I've never had a driver's license. I still have it. I'm a city boy through-and-through. So I'm like sure in the limo and I'm sitting here in this giant like cranberry colored limousine and actually a friend of mine walked by down the street past the place and like the window can be like this little crack. I like I meant so I went back in and the cuz I was I watch the limo she agreed to sit down with me and talk to me for 10 minutes. So I got to tell her the story and then she signed the comic book for me across the letter, but you got it much Love Stevie Nicks.

30:18 And then so

30:21 Did The Flash Forward is that Randy and I wanted to be able to meet her together, you know, because

30:29 That's closing the loop on everything. Right? Right, right and we still haven't got to do that. So Ari Shapiro if you're listening, I know you interviewed her earlier. We would love to meet her together. Yes, because the other thing we had not got to do was go and see her in concert together. And so in 2016 we met in Dallas and by the way our trips when we meet each other to go places are we are its Shenanigans Central? We just have more fun doing all of the going out to eat and shopping and things then we do for whatever event we're meeting for and we're very proud of it. We take our little Raven action figures and take them shopping and take photos, but we went to go see Stevie in concert in Dallas and purse.

31:29 Sitting not together because of the ticket but at the end of the concert.

31:37 We are we were people were kind of, you know, wondering in and out and in the lights come up and we were ready to leave. So I was sitting there next to Anthony and we noticed that everybody behind us had backstage passes. And so we figured they're very important people. So we do what we we do all the time is right, you know how the two of us, but hey Barista, I would like extra foam in. Can I tell you I'm at my best friend and then 10 minutes later the story so lit right, but I remember that we sat there and we talk to these people and one of them was Carolyn Brooks who sang on the CD second to the backup singer. She was really interested in trance with enchanted with the story and her husband. I guess I don't remember. Who was he

32:37 He said he said well, you know, I have half a mind to give you to the backstage passes and we were so gracious about that real like no no. No, we don't know if it's like you shouldn't do that, but we didn't like me to tell Stevie for you. And what did you tell her you really close? And I told Stevie Nicks first. She said one of her birth grasses. She never got to have children. So I told her I told the gentleman and the whole group basically, please tell her she had children.

33:26 Please tell her that this little gay boy from Philadelphia and this little boy from Texas would not have grown up into the people. We are if we had met each other and had the connection we had because of her. She has children. She's many children. We love her and I hope they did and I hope it landed. They don't know who I am, but I hope that landed for her.

33:59 It did and it also, you know started my collection of Stevie Nicks pack of cigarettes because I almost have the complete but the fact that and I'm glad we got to do that because the other part of that was because we weren't sitting together at some point before the concerts.

34:25 Anthony went to go use the restroom and I was standing there by myself and Lori Nicks who is a very famous in she's Stevie Nicks. She walks like right past me and I see her when you have a moment. Can I just talk to you about something and I'm wanting Anthony to come back cuz I want to tell her story and he's not and I'm freaked out cuz I'm there by myself and she finally walks up and she's like, what can I do for you? And I just verbal diarrhea this whole story out and about 30 seconds. She couldn't understand any of it. And so I was just mortified for the entire concert and we got to close the door.

35:14 A celebrity Fanboy kind of thing when we talked about Stevie Nicks and all and Raven and Wonder Woman and Lynda Carter but it really is just an appreciation because I have the type of friend that very very rarely do people get to have in their lives. This is not just that money, you know, and I talked up so much of who I am as a person and my successes and happiness isn't lives to meeting you and to the relationship we have and it literally wouldn't have happened without those Kismet moments and being inspired by all these other people. You know, I really did I thought that was the norm and we'll meet for me to find out and and understand how special that is is is really it also makes me

36:14 Feel obligated to to make sure other people find their and if I can do something to help someone

36:22 Except themselves and find that other person to lean on I wouldn't be as well as just as if it was.

36:32 He already knows that when I say goodbye to Stevie Nicks. I helped her into the limo. I kneel down and I held her hand, and I said I'll never forget you Stevie, and she said I'll never forget you either and I know she did but Randy I'll never forget you.

36:48 I will I will never forget you either ever ever.

36:56 Okay.

37:04 We did it.

37:06 Okay, we're good.