Recording - 08-19-2023 14:02:00

00:00 Like that. This is Mark Swiontkowski at Albuquerque at the 20th Century Orthopedic association meeting. And we are recording some oral histories of members, some of whom have passed away, that we really are very fond of and have made great contributions, not only this organization, but the field of our specialty. And it's my distinct pleasure to be speaking with David Martin, who is the executive director of the American Board of Orthopedic Surgery, a practicing and known sports medicine surgeon at Wake Forest, a Demon Deacons enthusiast to the end, whether it's baseball, basketball or football, always consistent in his support of the team and a faculty member there. So, David, we're going to talk about a person who was the executive director, had your job at the time you became a director of the board. So what would you like anybody who's listening to this, hear about G. Paul derosa? Wow.

01:07 Well, thanks, Mark. It's great to be here. Paul Derosa was one of my heroes. And my history with Dr. Derosa is still to me. Towards the end, he enforced having me call him Paul, but goes all the way back to the middle 90s when I happened to be appointed to the Orthopedic Residency Review Committee.

01:33 Okay.

01:34 And Paul was an ex officio member as coming from the board. And I remember I was appointed from the ama. And they said, be really careful. You're young, and all these orthopedic surgeons on the RRC will take advantage of you because you're young. And I thought that's not really how orthopedic surgeons work. And basically found out that if you just put your head down and keep your feet moving and work hard, that you're respected just like everybody else, regardless of your age. And Paul was one of those people at the RRC who took me under his wing. I would tell you the one story. We came to one of my early meetings and he was there and we had our golf clubs. And we got to the hotel and the person at the front door of the hotel said, I'll take your golf clubs. And I said, I'd really prefer to keep my golf clubs myself. And Dr. DeRosa said, Martin, give them your golf clubs. This is what you do at a place like this. You give them your golf clubs. And I said, I really like to keep my golf clubs in my room with me. He said, you don't do that. Give them your golf clubs. And I said, okay. So I handed him my golf clubs. Naturally. The next day, when we got out on the golf course, after working for the first six hours of the day at the meeting. We arrived, and everybody's golf clubs were there but mine. So I immediately went to Dr. DeRosa and I said, okay, now my golf clubs aren't here. And he said, wait here, I'll get them. And he had some guy, I think, with his hand around his neck, and they found my golf club. So that was my early memory of Paul. But he took me under his wing at that point and said, you can work. You can work for the board and do things for the board. And he got me involved in question writing. He got me involved in the formation of the sports medicine subspecialty. And then at a certain time, he said, listen, David, Bill Garrett is stepping down off the board, and we need a sports medicine person, and you would be good at this. Call the AMA, have them put your name in. Call Dr. Garrett, go and talk to him, and this is how you should do it. And surprisingly, still to this day, I'm surprised. I was elected to the board as a member of the board of directors. And he really shaped my career on the board of directors, as did you, Mark, when I was appointed as treasurer very early on, and that put me on the executive committee. So I worked very closely with Dr. DeRosa through that time. And as I was coming towards the end of my time on the board, I talked to him a lot about the job that he did and whether that was right for me, and he thought it was. And so, lo and behold, I was appointed to that job. Once I rotated off the board of directors, the timing just happened to be right. And he was exceedingly helpful. We had a number of lunches, and we had sort of all the board staff there. And then everybody would roll out, and Dr. DeRosa and I could talk about what the board was doing and how we were doing it and how we should be doing it. And he certainly had plenty of opinions then, but he was a larger than life character indeed. Just he and Marianne set an incredible example for us. So, yeah, one of my heroes.

05:14 Yeah. Well, I think some people might. Who might be listening to this in the future are. They have no idea about how subspecialty certification evolved. So it sounds like you were really in the mix when the whole issue of. I think it was called a CAQ at the time, a Certificate of Additional Qualification. I know the board's gotten rid of that terminology, but the whole issue with creating that in sports was a really big deal.

05:48 Yes, that's correct. And I would be remiss if I didn't mention Chris Harner, who really spearheaded that project. And I came onto the board right at a time when we were writing questions for the exam and we were trying to figure out the process of a certificate of added qualifications. We've since renamed that as a subspecialty certification and really had to work through all of the different organizations to establish sports medicine as a subspecialty and establish a body of knowledge, a separate body of knowledge that had to be outlined in an application that went to the American Board of Medical Specialties who had to approve the subspecialty certification. And there were several other sports medicine subspecialty certifications for other boards, family medicine, emergency medicine. And we had to establish a separate body of knowledge and work through the mechanics of how someone would submit a case list and what should be on the case list and make sure the questions were just right. And so I would say again, Chris Harner took me under his wing and Paul DeRosa was the executive director and he guided us through that. But it really took both Paul's support as executive director and then Chris Harner's energy. And I was, I worked with Chris and we really tried to get that through, communicated to the American Orthopedic Society for Sports Medicine and Sports Medicine Surgeons. And so now we have 2600.

07:20 Wow.

07:20 Sports medicine orthopedic surgeons who are subspecialty certified. So it was a process.

07:25 And that whole thing took close to 10 years, didn't it?

07:28 Yes, yes. So we established that and figured out how we would do it. And we were following a blueprint that surgery, the hand had done prior to that, but it was still a situation where many orthopedic surgeons felt like they did sports medicine. And we had to establish it as a separate body of knowledge and make sure that they all had the opportunity to become subspecialty certified.

07:54 Right? Yeah. And Paul was always really, really strong in his ability to communicate with the community based surgeon and looking out for their interest and understanding their perspective.

08:07 He really was very helpful in, I think, moving the board from a closed door Supreme Court like insular body to an open a board where all of the different facets of board certification were communicated openly so that the processes were well known to the rank and file orthopedic surgeon. And certainly some of the things that we do are not as popular. We would all like to practice orthopedic surgery without board certification because as you and I are doing the right thing and we've done the right thing ever since we started in orthopedic surgery, but not everybody is. And so I think we need a board to set and establish regulations. And we've really been given that opportunity to self regulate. And that's something that Paul continued to communicate to me that I've tried to deliver that message that we haven't been given the privilege of self regulation and that's not widespread. There are not too many fields that are able to self regulate. We've been given that privilege and we need to take it and make sure we hold onto it. And he was able to help communicate that to various organizations. And we've gone up and down in our popularity with those organizations, but tried to keep the communication open. And he always said just have them tell us how to make it better and we'll try and do that. And that's what I've tried to continue to do.

09:46 Yeah, you did a presentation to the 20th century today. It came across loud and clear that you're trying to create, I guess, an experience where the average orthopedic surgeon feels ownership and pride in the process. And that comes across loud and clear.

10:03 Yes, that's what we tried to do to add value. And that's what Paul wrote a book when he left the board called 75 years of doing the Right Thing. And I think that's something that I come back to a lot when I'm trying to look at an issue that comes up or what exactly how will we approach a problem? And Diplomate calls with an issue and I just try and to drop back and say what's the right thing to do? And then we try and do that and try and apply it evenly across all orthopedic surgeons, which is sometimes difficult. But Paul was able to really do that well, he had a heavy hand when he needed to have a heavy hand and had a, and was gentle when he needed to be both as a mentor and as executive director. And another story I'll tell you was at the oral examinations, which are a major deal to put on, and I was an examiner and I said, wow, Paul, this thing runs so smoothly. It's just amazing how this, all this works with 200 examiners and 800 examinees and everyone moving. I said it's really, really incredible. And he said it's like a duck gliding across the pond. If you could see under the pond, you would see that there's a lot of work going on. And now that I'm doing that, that's exactly what it is. There's a lot of work going on. And we, I, we worked at the check in for candidates for the examination and Paul was always there to help check in all the examinees. And I've continued that. I thought that was good, that the executive director, every examinee that checked in was right there and met the executive director. And Paul did that. And I, we each year at the oral exams had a little contest of who would get up earlier to get there and set up the room. And I would get there early one day and then the next day he would be me by 10 minutes and I would get in. It was already done. And so, yeah, it. But it's those small things that Paul did behind the scenes that sometimes people didn't notice.

12:13 So a huge. Paul had a huge commitment to the board to protect the public if it were, making sure that people who hold our certificate are safe and effective and knowledgeable. But he is a very well rounded individual and made great contributions to this organization. So we can't end this little discussion without we mentioned golf. But we should also talk about Notre Dame football. We should also talk about chocolate making. We should talk about other things. So.

12:43 Well, for sure. And that's why I said Paul and Marianne set an unbelievable example. And Paul set an incredible example of major contributions to the field of orthopedic surgery, both as an academician and as executive director at the board. But he was a family man. He put that first. And he and Marianne were a team. And you know, that set a great example for sue and I as him functioning as a team and was dedicated to Notre Dame. I will say that when I joined the 20th century, Dick Haynes also joined at the same time. And we each got Notre dame jerseys, number 60, because Paul was number 60 and wore those. And I still have that signed by Dr. DeRosa, hanging and hanging in my. My basement. My Notre Dame jersey signed by number 60, Paul Derosa. But he. I was wise enough so that when Notre Dame came to Wake Forest to play, I invited him to come to the game. And as team physician, I said, you know, Dr. DeRosa, you can be on the sidelines with me or you can be in the stands, either way. And he said, well, I want to be with you. And I said, that will be on the Wake Forest sideline, and we're gonna have to wear gold and black. And he said, that's exactly what I'll do. And he was right there with me on the sidelines. He wore his gold and black. We did talk to the Notre Dame doctors who he knew who offered him a Notre Dame shirt. And he said, no, I'm here with Wake Forest tonight. And he was with me during the Whole game helped me see some injuries, helped me with a dislocated finger that may or may not have been just a little bit open, but we were able to get that reduced and back in the game. He was happy when Notre Dame won. But that's another one of my prized possessions is a picture of Paul derosa and myself in our Wake Forest gear, ready for the ball game. So. And then the chocolate. I will say, I think he was a consummate candy maker. And he, you know, he. There were. The word I would use is awesome. And that's something that I got from his son. I mean, he was just sort of awesome in every way as a family man and then as a candy maker. And if you were on a certain short list, every Christmas, you got a gold box of chocolate candy, which was just unbelievable. And he recognized the sweetness in life and to stop and smell the roses. And no one sort of either stopped and smelled the roses or stopped and saw the sweetness of candy more than Paul did. That's. That's sort of what I remember, that sort of, well, roundedness. And I think orthopedic surgery is a career that can really grab hold of you, and it's a wonderful career. But I'm always impressed with the people who understand the larger importance of other things, and that's family and friends and dedication to those things and mentoring. And Paul, you know, took our whole family under his wing and mentored us along. Paul and Marianne did that. So we're grateful for that.

16:16 It's a wonderful way to end this short discussion. The sweetness of going back to the candy, the sweetness of our memories of what a great mentor, friend and leader in this field and member of this organization. So, David, thank you very much for the discussion. And I'm sure many people are going to have a better idea of who Paul derosa was because of your words. So thank you very much.

16:40 Well, thanks. Thank you.