Richard Hoy and Angel Hoy

[00:01] RICHARD HOY: Good afternoon. My name is Richard Hoy. I'm 71 years old. I'm an American born Chinese from Seattle, Washington. And I live in Seattle with my wife and three daughters, Angel, Sally and June. And my wife's name is Yan Lan Wu. She was born in the People's Republic and she's 46 years old. And this is my daughter, Angel.

[00:29] ANGEL HOY: Hi, my name is Angel Hoy. I'm 18 years old. Today is Wednesday, May 12, 2021. We're at our home in Seattle, Washington, and I'm with my. My dad, Richard, and. Yeah, great.

[00:49] RICHARD HOY: Okay. I guess we start asking questions.

[00:53] ANGEL HOY: So one thing though, I was wondering because I knew that you signed up for the army when you were 19 and that a lot of people your age also did that. But I'm curious because I know that your dad was also in the army when he was a young man, and I was wondering whether that had any influence on your decision to join up.

[01:14] RICHARD HOY: No, actually my decision to join up was. It looked adventurous, you know, after being fed a diet of Hollywood movies and TV shows about how war is like, sound like more like entertainment really than going and killing some people. I mean, it doesn't really strike you as realistic when you watch it on tv and it doesn't really hit home. And I was going to go for the adventure of what war was like.

[01:43] ANGEL HOY: So what were your first impressions of army life once you signed up?

[01:46] RICHARD HOY: Then I made a big mistake.

[01:49] ANGEL HOY: Oh, no.

[01:51] RICHARD HOY: Well, the thing is though, I lived a very sheltered life. Like I like in Jane Addams in the middle school that you went to. Also, if you said anything, any swear words at all, the teacher would nail you on that. And like, words like, for instance, when I first got into basic training, the drill sergeant says, oy, get your shit together. And I didn't know what he was saying. I thought about. I imagine it's very.

[02:18] ANGEL HOY: You didn't understand the slang.

[02:20] RICHARD HOY: No, exactly right. I imagine this big turd coming to jail in a toilet bowl. No, I literally thought about. I thought, what does he mean? You know, what was that supposed to. And I thought, my goodness. I thought then. But not only did he say it, but everybody else did too. I realized I was in a group of very lower class people, you know, not lower class, like, and, you know, not good people. But yeah, but they're very crass and they would say the same thing. Your f together, you know, what do you think you're doing here? I thought, well, number one is, you know, I thought I volunteered, but anyway. But it was totally A class by itself. And of course, you know, some of these people came from very violent backgrounds. Like this one guy from. I won't mention his name because he still may be alive. He was a gang leader that was in the army for attempted murder. The judge gave him a choice. Volunteer for four years in the army or we'll put you in prison for 10. And so I thought, my God, this is a bit. I realized the mistake I made. I thought, how do I get out of this? But, you know, it was too late. And because. And I was not. I didn't have enough time to think because I was being yelled at by somebody. And mostly the drill sergeant. And also we had. We had so much time to do everything, get our footlockers together, get our beds made, because the jewel surgery was going to come through. If anything was wrong. Like, for instance, if a bed wasn't made properly, he tipped the whole bed over. You know, I thought, gee whiz, I thought it wasn't that bad. But my bed was, you know, I thought was pretty good, but he didn't think so. So. But anyway, yeah, it was my. Was. That was my first impression of military life. And I thought. And then, of course, we have to get out of the. Our barracks was on the third floor of this big, huge barracks, this three story barracks. And we had to be in reveille, all lined up and, you know, standing at attention. And if we weren't out there in about something like five minutes, the drill sergeant would get really angry. So when I remember going down the stairs, instead of going down the stairs one step or two steps at a time, I'd grab both rails and took a huge leap and vaulted over all the stairs, each flight of stairs, all the way down, all three flights. It was what, six flights altogether? I think five or six. And then I'd run and stand in line. He chose me as a squad leader because I think he wanted to integrate his unit by showing that, hey, here's a person I call in charge of this almost all white squad. And I thought, okay, thank you. But anyway, so that was basic training. And we were asked to volunteer. Well, not volunteer, but he gave us a choice. What part of the. For the weekly. For the weekly inspection or the daily inspection, I forgot which. Now, where the first sergeant goes through and he checks out the barracks. Anything he didn't like, you know, he like, say, your wall locker is not closed. He pushed the wall locker over. I mean, this old man from World War II, you know, would do that. He was a. He was A former first. His first sergeant and he used to be with the Merles Marauders in, in the Burma campaign in World War II. There's a, there's a, there's a Hollywood movie made about the Merrills and Marauders. And he had, he had one of the original patches of that unit. But anyway, I chose the latrine, the clean, because I could have my whole squad in one area and I would know where they were and I could make assignments, whereas the other squad leaders, one guy would have the entire sleeping area and it had to be cleaned and polished, buffed and everything. So I thought I had a good deal. But the drill sergeant told me right after I volunteered for the, for the latrine, my squad for the retrieve the train detail, he says, hoy, you may end up in the low crawl pit more than anybody here. I thought, what's that?

[06:35] ANGEL HOY: Because you're small?

[06:36] RICHARD HOY: No, because, okay, the low crawl pit is literally like. Was it back then? It was like six ditches side by side. And during the summertime it is dusty in there. You practice crawling on your stomach, you.

[06:49] ANGEL HOY: Know, like in, right, like in trenches.

[06:51] RICHARD HOY: Like in trenches in combat. And he said that for everyone, to merit one of my people, God, I would have to spend two trips across the low crawl pit versus their one. And I thought, oh my, I thought, did I make a bad choice? And I, but I, you know, I talked with the guys. I thought this is very well controlled. Just clean the toilets, clean the showers. You know what's not like about our assignment is someone going to prove the drill sergeant wrong. And it turned out drill sergeant was right because when somebody has to use the bathroom, they go regardless of whether or not you're in their way.

[07:28] ANGEL HOY: Right.

[07:28] RICHARD HOY: And almost got into a fight with the guy that was in for attempted a murder. Yeah, he wanted to use the bathroom right away. Okay.

[07:39] ANGEL HOY: Anyway, so one thing that I was wondering like as I was making this list was how did you get from. Because I think you said you started on the infantry, right?

[07:49] RICHARD HOY: Well, the basic training, everyone, it's, it's a basic infantry training for everybody. That's, that's a given for everyone.

[07:55] ANGEL HOY: Right. But like, what I was wondering was like, how did you get to becoming a medic?

[07:59] RICHARD HOY: Oh, I asked for it for the, from the get go because I thought, well, you know, the medic, you know, he's the, he's the hero in the Hollywood show. And so he goes in.

[08:09] ANGEL HOY: I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's traditionally the way that people think, dad. People like. People like the John Cleese type of guy who goes out guns blazing.

[08:17] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, right.

[08:18] ANGEL HOY: Well, the medic is the side character.

[08:21] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, that's true. But, yeah, the hero is the one. The machine guns down everybody and goes home.

[08:27] ANGEL HOY: Yeah, but how did. So you chose to be a medic, though?

[08:30] RICHARD HOY: Well, I think it was maybe something I made up in my own mind that, you know, it's an honorable profession and the medic is well respected. In which they are. And. But, you know, I thought, you know, saving a life is like. Well, you know, like, I guess it was not in my own mind that I'd be my own Hollywood script. I'd be the war hero in my own Hollywood script because I was too small. Actually, it turned out, you know, I wasn't cut out for the Army. Like, I can't bark at people for very long, and I can't. I thought I wasn't a tough guy. I thought the hero is a tough guy. You know, he's the leader. Everyone respects and follows him and respect. Respect a guy my size. You know, everyone just about everywhere is bigger than me. And they. There were some fights in the barracks because so many 50 personalities under stress. There was bound to be some fights.

[09:24] ANGEL HOY: Yeah, but, like.

[09:25] RICHARD HOY: And some of them were very vicious. And I looked at that and thought, that's not me. Like, once my hitch is up in the Army, I'm out of here. It's just way too dangerous for a small guy like me.

[09:36] ANGEL HOY: But, like, how did you find being a medic once you got into that training?

[09:40] RICHARD HOY: Well, very interesting thing about. Okay, now, basic training is that you taught to kill people and do basic training and how to use your. Use your rifle and how to clean it, go to the firing range and pop down through targets. That was all oriented to killing people. When we. I went to Fort Sam Houston, Texas, which is in San Antonio, Texas, it was totally 100%, not even one mention of a bullet, you know, about. Well, except for bullet holes. We have to patch up wounds, of course. Yeah, exactly. But there was no mention about us killing anybody. You know, like, there's always. This is the way you save this life. This is where you patch this wound. This. You may run into an unusual situation here, and this is what you may do, you know, and it was all about saving a life and nothing about taking a life. And so I was. We were completely decomposed. As far as being killers, we're all lifesavers. And so. And also, we're working with a lot of professional. A lot of the doctors were drafted, as it turned out, you know. Yeah. And that's, of course, many of the nurses. Almost all the nurses were volunteers. I don't know, they were 20. They weren't draft women. They must have been all volunteers. And. But the. But, but the doctors hated being there. I could tell that the nurses, they thought it was great, it was a big adventure. You know, they have this rank, you know, they're command of all these guys and they. We have to obey them, otherwise we get in deep trouble or like court martial or whatever, you know.

[11:17] ANGEL HOY: And the medical profession is very serious.

[11:19] RICHARD HOY: Oh, yeah. Well, the thing is, I was into that because I was into it too, because my concern was not to take a life, but to save one. But, you know, but I thought. Well, I don't know. I never thought about killing. Well, you think about it. But when I was actually presented with the situation in Vietnam where I had the opportunity to kill somebody, I really, I really didn't take it. Because I remember we, my unit, we surrounded this village and we think we trapped 50 North Vietnamese soldiers. And. But I got separated from my unit somehow. When we were forming the cordon around the village, I was fought. My position was to follow the lieutenant and because not to get lost. It was dark. It was a night raid. We had special permission, with special permission from the commanding general, our commanding general, American commanding general of Vietnam, to make a night raid. Because the policy, the military policy for all of Vietnam for the American command is no night activities. Anybody that shows up on your rifle scope or your night scope, you kill him. I mean, there's no night activity. But for us, we were making a somewhat commando raid to surround this village. And anyway, as we were surrounded village, I noticed as I was following the lieutenant, all of a sudden the lieutenant got taller by foot. I thought, what happened here? Then when. Then all of a sudden we had some gunfire from the village and we all hit the ground. And the lieutenant, in a deep, not my lieutenant voice said, okay, shoot back. You know, evidently it was a green unit. And so the North Vietnamese shouted us. We ducked and he says, shouts, shoot them back. And so return fire. I thought, okay, this is not my unit. And I. But then when the flare that we shot up was a second or third flare, I saw a North Vietnamese soldier standing, staring at me. He was about Maybe, I'd say 50, 50ft away. He was looking at me. I was looking at him. I thought I had my rifle and the flare went out and I thought, well, I guess I'm supposed to shoot him, you know, So I got my rifle ready and then by that time he's gone. You know, I thought, well, I'm definitely. I cut out to be a soldier, that's for sure. Because I didn't. I had to think about killing him and I didn't take the opportunity. And that was, that was, that was my life as a shooting type soldier. As a medic I was okay, but I was not, I was definitely not a soldier.

[13:58] ANGEL HOY: Yeah, I know that you as a medic because I remember your call sign was like, which doctor wasn't it?

[14:04] RICHARD HOY: Oh yeah, it was three. Let's see, three, two. Witch doctor.

[14:08] ANGEL HOY: And I thought that was funny. But what I also was, what I meant to bring up was that although you were definitely, you definitely felt more suited to being put in the position of a medic than an infantryman. Or I guess you were technically an infantryman. But.

[14:23] RICHARD HOY: Geneva Convention. I was told during one of my medical medics classes at forums that the Geneva Convention specifically says that a medic is to be treated as a non combatant. The. Oh, okay. The enemy is not. Whoever signed the Geneva Convention, they're not allowed to shoot at me.

[14:45] ANGEL HOY: Technically, they're not allowed to.

[14:46] RICHARD HOY: Exactly.

[14:47] ANGEL HOY: Okay.

[14:48] RICHARD HOY: Not according to convention.

[14:49] ANGEL HOY: What I was going to say is that.

[14:50] RICHARD HOY: And I can't fire on them either.

[14:52] ANGEL HOY: Right. But what I was going to say is that I know you feel more suited to being the medic, but I also know that being a medic puts you in a bunch of situations that other soldiers or other men don't always find themselves in. And I kind of feel that it, that you, it might be a good thing to talk about how you got taken out.

[15:12] RICHARD HOY: Like I got shot.

[15:14] ANGEL HOY: Yeah. Like so. Like when I, when I was really little. I remember because, you know, when it gets hot out, sometimes you take your shirt off and I remember you have one really long scar down your middle and a couple of very obvious stitched up holes in your side.

[15:30] RICHARD HOY: Yeah.

[15:31] ANGEL HOY: And I was wondering.

[15:32] RICHARD HOY: Yeah.

[15:33] ANGEL HOY: Why are you laughing?

[15:34] RICHARD HOY: Oh, I just thought because your cousin back in China, when I was reading this before you were born, she said to your mom this before we were married, of course we were introduced. He says, when I. I taken off my shirt to wash one time because it would have been. We were okay and just watch my upper part. And she came, Your cousin went to mom and says, what's his name, your cousin? Richard. He has three, three belly buttons here.

[16:04] ANGEL HOY: Oh my goodness. That's what you're thinking about right now. When I bring this Up. You got shot.

[16:09] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, exactly. But you were shocked by the holes. She was shocked by. She thought.

[16:14] ANGEL HOY: But I was in a different way. I was six.

[16:17] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, I know, I know. But the reaction was shocked. She was shocked. You were shocked by the extra holes I had in my body.

[16:24] ANGEL HOY: Right. I think I was more like fascinated in the way that only a child can be curious about something that's new. But I remember asking you about it, and you gave me a sort of a rundown of what happened, but you really didn't get more detailed about the story until I was maybe 11 or so. So I think, like, how would you describe it to me now that I'm 18 and I understand a little bit more about what's going on? Start from the beginning.

[16:48] RICHARD HOY: From the beginning. Okay. My unit was ambushed in the Iron Triangle of Vietnam.

[16:55] ANGEL HOY: What square is that?

[16:56] RICHARD HOY: Okay. It's east, no, west of the town of Bencat in the north. Part of the tribe that forms the triangle is the Mechelin rubber plantation, owned by the French. And then the two sides, the bottom sides of the triangle was the Song Bay and the Song Saigon. And what the North Vietnamese troops would do was that was the terminus of the Ho Chi Minh Trail, where supplies from North Vietnam would take along the trail and they would store it in the. In the. What we call. Nicknamed the Hobo woods, the Michelin River Plantation.

[17:31] ANGEL HOY: Okay.

[17:32] RICHARD HOY: And then at night, they put it on. They would put it on boats or sandpans or whatever you call them, and transport it and distribute as a distribution point for the munitions.

[17:43] ANGEL HOY: So you were there?

[17:44] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, we were there. And we were sent to join the 1st Infantry Division. My unit was the 3rd Brigade of the 82nd Airborne. And we were attached to them, and we were told we're going to be fighting, maybe fighting every night. And, well, that's another story. But anyway, so we were sent in there and we discovered some cement bunkers during a search mission. And everyone was shocked. All the experienced GIs were shocked. They said, you only see cement bunkers when you hit the headquarters of whatever unit you hit. This may be the divisional headquarters of this North Vietnamese army unit. And so that means we may be in for a fight because they're out there. They escaped when they saw us, and they're out there waiting to see if we leave or, you know, they're going to engage us. And so the day after we discovered the cement bunkers, or the night. That very night, Alpha Company, I was attached to Bravo Company, Alpha Company got into a gunfight with one of the North Vietnamese unit. And the lieutenant started laughing, says, well, okay, I guess, though we've been invited to the party. Anyway, so the next day we. My company went along this road, and then the 4th Rifle Platoon, which was leading us, they came under gunfire. And then in about 15, 20 minutes, Lieutenant got a radio call from him and says, their platoon leader's been hit and the medic's been hit. He looked at me, he says, I need seven volunteers to go relieve them. And I said. I thought. First thing I thought was, that's not my own. What a way of saying I need seven volunteers when he's saying, look right at me. And so I said, okay, I'll go. I was the very first one who volunteered. And I was right. Other guys, line, those other six guys lined up behind me. I thought, wait a minute. I don't know how to fight. What am I doing in front? And Lieutenant grabbed my grab, grabbed my shirt, the back and just the nape of my neck and dragged me all the way back. Says, no, doc, you're at the back. Doctor's at the back, the doc is at the back. So. And see, Pete was the point. He had the most experience. And then lieutenant and then forgot the second guy's name. Then lieutenant was the third man. And we went very slowly. We crawled most of the way, and it must have been. It felt like forever. But we could tell by the gunfire and the grenades that while we were there, we arrived and what was happening was the North Vietnamese soldiers, they were shooting at us with three machine guns, and then the other two or three were throwing grenades at us. And I found out later that's a very common tactic in the jungle. What you do is you shoot at the enemy, and then while they're down, you throw grenades at them. And you may not kill them, but you may wound many of them and severely ruin their morale. Come to think of it, the night before, two nights before the ambush, we were ambushed. They used a common tactic they used against the French. I was told, the first day, you throw a grenade at them or you do something to get their attention so that we don't sleep. The second day, they shot at us. One bullet. That's all it was, just one bullet. And that just panicked all of us. And we got. We were alert, and so we lost the second day sleep. Then the third day, Mo, this guy from Missouri, Michelle Putter Chocolate Team Anyway, when he was putting out his claymore mine, he. He actually saw a North Vietnamese soldier. And the soldier shot at him from a distance. I think was, I forgot how many feet he was. I think he didn't even mention it, but he actually saw. And so was. We didn't expect. We typically don't see them during the daytime. It's during the night when they come. So Mo went out there without his weapon to set up his claymore mine. And that's when he saw the North Vietnamese soldier. And the soldier shot at him and he turned and ran, but I don't think he could have gotten moving. That's just frosting on the cake. It was just to scare us again. So we lost. So we did not have three days worth of sleep. And so when we were ambushed that day, and when the got ambushed and we went to relieve them, we were all. We were without three days worth of sleep. And I don't think we reacted properly because not everyone was firing their weapon. And some of them were just staring, you know, and just some were firing their weapons occasionally. And it was a very poorly response to the ambush. And so anyway, I saw the medic, and he was in convulsions. He had shrapnel wounds around his head, and he was in convulsions. I thought, well, during orientation, the top medic did say, anybody with head wounds most likely will die. Your job is to save the ones who will most likely live. So you let them. You just make a decision and you let them die. And the same thing with the others. And so I had three people all together, and I knew I couldn't take care of malt all at once, especially on the gunfire because the machine guns were going off all the time, and everybody was yelling grenade, you know, and ducking. And I thought, I can't think like this. What I did was. And I was amazed I could do it. I just shut out the sound of the grenades, the gunfire, and I focused. And so I yelled back, I made analysis. They can't be treated here. So I yelled back for men to pull these. The wounded out. And then I saw this one guy. His name is Joseph Holmes. He and I were on night watch together the night before. He was from Atlanta, Georgia. We're both 19 years old, and the conversation was all about home. But he had his girlfriend, his car, and his parents became. Became friends that night. He was the one I pointed out to you on Vietnam War Memorial. Anyway, yeah, anyway, he was bleeding from both sides of his head. Shrapnel wounds all over his head. I was gonna let him die. And when Newton, my bodyguard, says, okay, Doc, we got them all out, I said. Then he said. I said, let's Go. He says, Newton says, but Doc, how about him? I said, no, leave him. Let's go. I said. I said, you first. So he disappeared into the elephant grass. And I crawled maybe two or three steps. And I turned around. I looked at Holmes, at Joe. I said to myself, I can't do this. I can't let him die. But I try.

[25:29] ANGEL HOY: Give me a moment.

[25:31] RICHARD HOY: I'm. I just can't do it. I can't. I don't have it in me. Just let him die. So I. So I turned around.

[25:42] ANGEL HOY: He could breathe in.

[25:44] RICHARD HOY: Yeah. I went home and I went up to him, bandaged both sides of his head. Then I started an IV on him. And by that time, Newton came back and says, doc, what are you doing? He says, I don't know. He said, where's your gun? He'd been.

[26:02] ANGEL HOY: He had been.

[26:03] RICHARD HOY: Yeah. Well, no, actually, I laid it down with the first patient some 20 yards away. And he. Newton. Newton came back to find where. Where I was because he was my bodyguard. And his. His rifle jammed. And he says, doc, where's yours? I said, where's your rifle? I said, it's back there someplace. I don't know. And he says. So he went back. I don't know for how long. Then came back. He used my rifle. He got off three shots, and my rifle jammed too. Since he had nothing else to do, I told him, hold this IV bottle, you know. And I said. And he said, okay. I said, good. Then as I started the iv, I started with the fluid flowing. I was really happy. I thought I did this under fire.

[26:47] ANGEL HOY: Wow.

[26:47] RICHARD HOY: Okay. So I brought my. My paper tape and was about to break off a section to anchor the needle to wrap. Wrap around completely around the needle, right? So that. Hold secure. Just as I was about to break the tape, gunfire erupted. Next thing I knew, the next thing I knew, I was on my side. And that was. That part was missing. A grenade had gone off. Also, whoever shot me also threw a grenade at me. But, you know, there's grenades all over the place and dirt was falling down. I realized they still throwing grenades at us. And then I saw Toledo. He was from Puerto Rico. He came alongside me and yelled, doc's hit. You know, and anyway, and he tried to protect me. They threw a grenade at him too. And anyway, long story short, a bunch of guys grabbed me and dragged me all the way to the helicopter site. And the helicopter got in and grabbed me and took me to the emergency surgery. Well, first, the emergency. Their makeup. The army equivalent of emergency room. And I was Analyzed very quickly. And then they sent me off to the X ray section in an ambulance. Remember, they said the. The two X ray technicians was one. This one tall black guy and this one white guy held me up the plate. He says, okay, take a deep breath. I. I couldn't because I realized part of my lung had collapsed. He says, ah, crap. Yeah, that's good enough. That'll do. And so I came back, so. And it turned out after the operation, they. They discovered the shockwave from the bullet. The bullet actually just went through my stomach, but the shockwave itself put a rip in my diaphragm, or I couldn't draw a deep breath. And that was the reason why I. Matter of fact, I thought I. It got my lung, and I was going to suffocate to death. And I remember I thought about raising my head and letting that North Vietnamese soldier get a good shot at my head, because I thought, I'm gonna. I'm gonna suffocate. I might as well let him kill me.

[29:09] ANGEL HOY: Then they put you down, right?

[29:11] RICHARD HOY: Yeah. Wow. Yeah, they put me down.

[29:13] ANGEL HOY: Didn't you say something to the nurses? They were putting you down?

[29:18] RICHARD HOY: What did I say? The nurse? Is it when it was the Northern nest. Oh, no. Yeah, oh, no. It was the ambulance driver, who's a Vietnamese. Who. He was the attendant. And there's an ambulance driver, and then there was the attendant. The attendant tried to make me lie down, but laying down, I would have suffocated. So I got up so I could draw a deep breath, and he kept on shoving me down. I was about to take his teeth out because he did, even though he didn't know what was happening. But the surgeons, we did realize. But anyway, the North Vietnamese soldier that got me, he got me from left to right. The bullet entered my right, left side, exited my right. The hand grenade chipped my rib. And then the other hole is the suction tube they used for reading. For. Yeah, to draw the blood out of my chest cavity so I can breathe. And then, of course, the scar on my upper right arm, that was from the grenade. So those were all the extra holes. And they become kind of a red badge of courage. Because back at work, when I was at the post office, I was changing clothes out of my street clothes into my coveralls. The first day on the shift, everybody turned and looked at me, and one guy says, were you a Nam? I says, yep. He says, what happened then? I described what I just described to you. And there's three World War II veterans in there, Bill, who was a. Who shot out of the air by the Nazis and he was in a prison camp. Then Don, he was a tail gunner in World War II. And then there was Holston, who was in the Navy. He participated in the invasion of the Philippines. And so that put me up a notch on the respect scale at work. So there were some. There's some pluses to being shot or shot.

[31:24] ANGEL HOY: Well, I mean, I guess also you. You have the Purple Heart on your license plate.

[31:28] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, that's right.

[31:29] ANGEL HOY: And I know you have. You still have the Purple Heart in your. In. In a box, right?

[31:34] RICHARD HOY: I've seen it. Yeah, that's right.

[31:37] ANGEL HOY: And do you feel good about having that?

[31:41] RICHARD HOY: Yeah. Well, in the current atmosphere of political atmosphere right now, where we, Even though we're American born Chinese, we're being blamed for the coronavirus that killed, you know.

[31:56] ANGEL HOY: Yeah.

[31:57] RICHARD HOY: And so in a way, that's like an unarmed way of defending ourselves, saying, hey, we're loyal Americans too, you know?

[32:06] ANGEL HOY: Yeah. But the virus wasn't the reason why you made that a point to me when I was little, because I remember I was. I was. Remember when I first asked you about your scars and you told me about serving in Vietnam, even though I didn't really understand what it meant at that time, you always told me that because you made it very clear to me that being brown, being looking this way is. Can be dangerous because you grew up that way. And. And I. I think I understood that even when I was really little, is that you were saying that to protect me means that you thought it was worth it to have that. Even though I'm pretty sure that you would trade it for all the. Everything that you went through.

[32:47] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, well, I can't take it all back, but. Yeah, well, it's the show. There are few racists out there who don't believe that only white people are heroes. And so when I show my Purple Heart, especially when you drive the car, when you drive the car that, hey, this is the daughter of a veteran, that I have proof that I am loyal to the United States. Other people only have their white skin. And Bennett Donald had white skin too.

[33:20] ANGEL HOY: Right.

[33:22] RICHARD HOY: So I have proof of loyalty and devotion to the United States. Also, my hero is Abraham Lincoln. Okay.

[33:31] ANGEL HOY: Right. We have about five minutes left. Do you want to talk a little bit about, like, what it was like to be Chinese in the army? Well, not. You were born here, so you're American, but you're very obviously. We are both very obviously not white.

[33:45] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, well, on the whole, it was okay, actually.

[33:53] ANGEL HOY: But you didn't meet a whole lot of other Asians.

[33:55] RICHARD HOY: No, not especially. Well, not in the American army anyway. But most of us were shipped off to Europe because I was told by word of mouth they don't want us to get accidentally shot over in Vietnam. So they decide to send us to Europe. And my first assignment was actually Germany. It was a wonderful place.

[34:14] ANGEL HOY: You spoke German?

[34:15] RICHARD HOY: Exactly. I took German in high school and everybody, all these Germans would come up to me, you know, and one asked me what Vietnam was like. You know, they thought I was a Vietnamese refugee evidently. And they couldn't imagine me being in the American army because it's very rare that. Well, most of them never seen a nation in the American army before. It was the first time seeing a nation especially Chinese in the American Army. And I was very well treated by the Germans anyway. And wherever I went, like instead of going to the bars, you know, because I thought that's not me, you know, that's what gis. But anyway, so I went to, I went on tour on my own tour. I went to where a German city. I watched where the Germans went and I went to the same place, you know, and there would be children, mothers, fathers, you know, shopping in these department stories doors. And I go in there too, and everybody would come walk up to me. And some. One guy even came up and spoke to start speaking Japanese. He thought, oh, okay, Japanese ally.

[35:16] ANGEL HOY: All right.

[35:17] RICHARD HOY: Yeah. And also it was, it was pretty good and I was, I was enjoying Germany and. But I wanted to be a war hero.

[35:23] ANGEL HOY: And you got yourself reassigned.

[35:26] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, I volunteered out of, out of Germany and into Vietnam. I think back about that, I thought, well, everyone's entitled the one big mistake in their lives.

[35:34] ANGEL HOY: I guess so. But on the topic of mistakes that I know we only have a few minutes left, but I do want. You really want you try to get out quickly get out. The story of learning to drive. Oh, you were 19, you hadn't learned how to drive yet.

[35:47] RICHARD HOY: Yes. And so the other medics, they want, they want to ambulance jeep, ambulance drivers, okay. And so they, they took me out and said, okay, hoy. This is where all the tanks, tank drivers practice with their tanks and says, okay, put it in gear and let's get going. I said, so I put in first gear and we traveled for a few seconds and we ended up in a three foot deep mud puddle. And I thought, wait a minute, I thought this was supposed. But he said we couldn't tell where the mud pulse goes. It was all even, you know. And so some tankers saw Us and they brought the chain and dragged us out. And then I put it in gear again and the same thing we traveled this time for. We avoided that particular hole. But then we hit another one. It's same almost three, four feet deep. And I thought, this, this is not a good idea, you know. But anyway, he says, Hoy don't worry about it. Dragged us out a second second time. Then the third time the tanker says the tanker told the guy with the top medic says, doc, this is. We're leaving at, you know, so this is the last time if you get stuck, you know, when I come back, you know, and said, okay, fine. So we left. And since I was the one that drove it in mud puddle, I had to wash the Jeep, you know, so I thought, okay, so that was your.

[37:05] ANGEL HOY: First taste of driving?

[37:06] RICHARD HOY: That was my very first driving experience. And.

[37:10] ANGEL HOY: Well, Dad, I bet you're glad to have the safety and the safety van now.

[37:14] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, exactly. Right. I'm glad I have our cars within with a nice radio and everything else because those Jeep ambulances were very sparse and it was interesting. I never want to do that again. Those are deep mud puddles.

[37:41] ANGEL HOY: So Kevin wants to know if you want to talk a little bit about our family history.

[37:45] RICHARD HOY: Oh, sure. Okay. Well, we have some people think a fascinating history on my father's side. My great grandfather landed in San Francisco in 1869 and let's see, got also he was going to look for the mountain of gold that they heard about in China, but he ended up with a job on the Central Pacific Railway.

[38:10] ANGEL HOY: That's what. Actually, that's what we call Saint Pacific. Is it Gold Mountain?

[38:13] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, Gold Mountain. Well, hey, that was the attraction. And that's. I think that's what the. Oh, the. I know the guys who were trying to trick our farmers into paying a whole lot of money to go to go get rich, you know, basically.

[38:28] ANGEL HOY: But that was your great grandfather.

[38:30] RICHARD HOY: Yep. That's great. Yeah, your great great grandfather. Okay. And he along with his brother was it when they were in San Francisco and they both ended up on the railroad on the Central Pacific. And then from the Central Pacific they went to being migrant workers up and down California coast all the way from Lodi to clear down to Imperial Valley. And they did that for a while. And then grandpa went, went back, returned on ground. And then Grandpa was born in San Francisco. She was an American citizen. Okay. And so he went back. When he became a young, young adult, he went back to China several times, I was told. And on one of those visits, he Married Grandma, but he. They didn't have any children until he was 60 years old. Matter of fact, one of the reasons why was because he became old being in the United States, and they didn't think dad would come along, so they adopted somebody to take the family name and secure the property and, you know, continue the family name. But then one day, you know, on one of his visits back to China, Grandpa said to Grandma, my grandma said, grandpa, honorable husband, I'm pregnant. And he thought she was joking. Anyway. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're the one. You're the father.

[39:49] ANGEL HOY: And that was your dad, right?

[39:50] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, that was dad. And so dad was born in China. And when he was 8 years old, Grandpa brought him over to Seattle and only eight years of age. I'm pretty sure Grandma didn't like that, but nothing she can do about it. And that's how Grandpa landed in San Francisco. And this family, the Wigan family, they moved to la. But anyway, she saw Grandpa and great grandpa on the dock in Seattle and she. She said she could tell he was really scared. It was a cold day on the Seattle dock. And she. She offered them a place to stay because, you know, she really cared about small children. And so Grandpa was raised part of. Part of the time in that. In that family. Matter of fact, one of the. I know no bits and pieces about what their experience, but one thing I do know for sure, every Christmas, Grandpa always bought this big, huge Christmas tree. I thought. And all these decorations, I thought, this is a big tree in a small living room. So what the heck's going on? Come to find out. One of the bits of information Grandpa was. They sell. They gave him presents, too, and he celebrated Christmas with the Wiggin family. And he. That tree was based on all the warm memories he had of the Wigan family. And so. And he remembered them, too, through his dying days, you know, and I got. I got to meet Mrs. Wigan.

[41:29] ANGEL HOY: And I think it's good that your dad had that experience because, you know, being a Chinese immigrant, even if you're a child, is a really stressful experience. And for him to grow up into the person that he became, because I know he died pretty soon after. I was like, I was pretty young when he died, and I remember all these, like, you have all these memories of him about him being a good person and how he was beloved by everyone. He had tons of friends, even Japanese friends, which is kind of a shocker because, you know, we don't always get. A lot of. The older Chinese don't get along with the Japanese very Well, no, they don't.

[42:03] RICHARD HOY: Well, I think what it is is that even though he grandpa suffered a lot of race prejudice, but the thing of it is because of what misses the Wigan family, Mrs. Wiggins especially the way that she loved and treated him. Grandpa thought in the ground back at grandpa's mind, America is the Wiggin family. He's not all the multiple racists he encountered in his life as a child because he had every reason to hate white people. But he did. He never uttered one evil word, not one single swear word about the white race of America. But you know, when he talked about white people, he talked about Mrs. Wigan.

[42:44] ANGEL HOY: Yeah. And that's Kwakadun Hoy or more. More often known as Dune.

[42:48] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, exactly. And so what can I say, you know, that's that side of the family.

[42:56] ANGEL HOY: He's a good memory.

[42:57] RICHARD HOY: Yeah. Then grandma's side of the family. Totally out of sync with my father's side of the family. Okay. She came from a well off family. Her father married the daughter of the mayor of Taisan. The majority of the people from before 1960, 50% of the Chinese from China are from this one area, Taishan, anyway, but. And grandma great grandpa was on mom's side. Okay. He worked for the bank of China under the military dictator Chiang Kai Shek. And he must have been very important because when they had to evacuate to the war capital in Chungking, the entire family moved with them in the war capital. And he also then when the civil war with the communist happened, he had to escape because he would been tried as a war criminal. And so he ended up in Hong Kong. But he tried to start a Bank of China in Hong Kong, but no one trusted them because of the severe corruption during.

[44:16] ANGEL HOY: But your mom was in Hong Kong. Yep, that's where they were compound rich people, weren't they?

[44:21] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, that's right. They lived up talking to your Aunt May. Okay. Grand. Grand Aunt May. Okay. When we were taught, when I had a buzz cut one day and May looked at me, says he's like one of the communist generals. Come to find out they lived in a defended compound with guards and that every so often a communist general would come into or generals would come in for some sort of negotiation which she wasn't privy to. But you know, looking back at Asian history when I went to Tucker College class, the communists and the Nationalists were trying to negotiate some kind of peace. But of course they didn't arrive at it. At it. But yeah, they were actually a very well off family. And just before the communists started coming into Our. Into the province. So our province, that's where dad came back home. Can. Went back to China shopping for a wife because he wanted to get married and start a family because the. The Asian Exclusion act was lifted. Because they.

[45:31] ANGEL HOY: You can bring along immediate family.

[45:32] RICHARD HOY: Right? Exactly. Or if you marry somebody, you can bring them over right away. And anyway, so he met mom over in Taishan, and grandma went back to the family, says, hey, he's got citizenship.

[45:50] ANGEL HOY: That's the only thing he's got going for.

[45:52] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, he could have been an ax murderer. But hey, everyone has flaws, right? They said, go ahead. Yeah, marry him. And grandma expected this big, huge. Well, a wealthy person. But this guy was.

[46:06] ANGEL HOY: But he didn't. He didn't always have citizenship. No, he was born. That's right.

[46:11] RICHARD HOY: He was born in China, but his grandpa was born here. So by current practice, okay, like Tom Cruise was born in Canada, but his mother is American, so he's automatically American. Didn't work for Chinese back then. If you were born in China, even if your father was born here, okay, your kid is Chinese, he's born over there. You can't come.

[46:31] ANGEL HOY: Your dad was born in China, but his dad was born in America.

[46:34] RICHARD HOY: And he got citizenship. When you, after evolving, volunteered to go in the army and. Well, no, he got assistant right after he got out of the army.

[46:41] ANGEL HOY: I do think that it's kind of like a little disgraceful because nowadays it's the right. The right. The birthright of citizenship is pretty important. And your dad couldn't. He voted after that, Right after he got his citizenship.

[46:52] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, that's right. He went to the. I remember I was, I think was five, six years old, and I went over to him, the boating booth. He had this big grin on his face, and I thought, what's going on? I thought, did he know people here? No, they just invited me. And he says, okay, Mr. Hoy go to your. They had voting stalls where they had a curtain, and I ducked underneath the curtain because they see how the world worked and they use those levers when you drop your. Drop a vote. And he had this grin on his face, and I thought, came back. Then they said, Mr. Hoy, your boy can't be in there with you. It's not just against the rules. And that's why I went back out. But no, he was 25 years old and we finally got citizenship. I think what it is is that he was so happy that he got to vote. He was exercising his power as an American citizen, you know, and he is one because by, like I said, by current, current standards, the son. The son of a citizen is. No matter where they're born, they're a citizen too. And so. But he had to. He had to wait for his.

[47:54] ANGEL HOY: Your dad liked being American, I guess he loved it.

[47:57] RICHARD HOY: You know, every time he voted, he loved it. You know, like, like I said, you know, it's that. That grin on his face. I never thought that first time I was with him at minus five, he. It was something he. He waited for all those years.

[48:12] ANGEL HOY: Yeah. There's one last thing I would like to say before we end things is that. So when I was 13, we went to D.C. right. I was pretty sure it was 13. So that was the. That was in the summer. And we went all to all the museums and we really enjoyed Smithsonian. But one of the things that we did decide to visit before we left was a couple days before we left the city was to go visit the Vietnam Memorial, which was designed by that Asian woman, remember?

[48:39] RICHARD HOY: Yeah. Maya Lin.

[48:41] ANGEL HOY: Yeah. And, you know, we got there, mom and. Mom and my sisters didn't come with us because they were really hot and it was late in the day and everyone was tired, but you wanted to go see it, and so I went with you. And I remember making like, the consciousness because, like, it's a very. It's still. Even though it's a place of memory, it's still kind of a somber place. There's. It's very quiet, very respectful. And it is this big black rip in the side of the mountain, side of the hill. And we were going up to it and there were just all these names and you could just see it and the stone was like. So it was really warm there because it swept up all the sun.

[49:16] RICHARD HOY: Yeah.

[49:17] ANGEL HOY: And I remember we. We found a volunteer who was standing there and we. You want. You wanted to ask her to find a couple of really specific names. Right. Two of them. Do you remember what those were again?

[49:27] RICHARD HOY: Oh, Joseph Holmes, the guy that got shot. Then it was John.

[49:38] ANGEL HOY: I think John is enough.

[49:40] RICHARD HOY: Yeah. He was the. He was the platoon sergeant. He treated me like his kid brother.

[49:46] ANGEL HOY: Right.

[49:47] RICHARD HOY: When he found out was only 19, he says, Doc, you're a baby. What are you doing here?

[49:52] ANGEL HOY: Yeah, and I remember that. And she found that. She actually. She found both of them, didn't she?

[49:57] RICHARD HOY: Well, yeah, well, you know, they were. John's name was on top and Joseph Home is right below next to him.

[50:07] ANGEL HOY: You know, because they're the same.

[50:08] RICHARD HOY: Yeah. They were killed the same day.

[50:11] ANGEL HOY: Right. Because I remember we went and I remember being there and there were all these flowers, and it was. It was a nice place.

[50:17] RICHARD HOY: It was a. Yeah, it was very. It was very good.

[50:20] ANGEL HOY: I'm glad that. I'm glad that we went there.

[50:22] RICHARD HOY: Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad.

[50:24] ANGEL HOY: Once the pandemic's over, I think we'd like to go again. We didn't. We didn't explore the Smithsonian enough.

[50:29] RICHARD HOY: No, no, that's true. We didn't.

[50:31] ANGEL HOY: And, you know, next time we'll bring some flowers, I think.

[50:34] RICHARD HOY: Yeah.

[50:35] ANGEL HOY: Because we didn't get to.

[50:36] RICHARD HOY: Yeah, we could do that.

[50:39] ANGEL HOY: I think we're good here, Kevin.