Richard Rodriguez and Rich Rodriguez

[00:02] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: My name is Richard a. Rodriguez I'm 69 years old. Today's date is January 16, 2020. We're located Verona Reservation. The name of the interview part is my son, Richard Rodriguez Jr. He's my son.

[00:21] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: My name is Richard A. Rodriguez Jr. I go by the name Rich I am 45 years old. Today is January 16, 2020. We are on the Barona Indian Reservation. And we are actually in the room that is formerly the chairman's office at the old ranch house. My interview partner is Richard Pogo. Richard Rodriguez Senior goes by Pogo. He's my father. All right, so a topic came up the other day. They're talking about baseball. I thought that was kind of a neat thing to bring. Can you tell me more about baseball when you were younger and the time when the Indian kids played the Caucasian kids and they blew them away? Do you remember that story?

[01:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, we used to play growing up. We used to play like softball, hardball all year round. And when I was in the fourth grade, I used to fast pitch for Palma School. And being in fourth grade since I flunked second grade and started school late, I was a big kid. So when I started playing baseball there, then I got on the reservations team. I played for Paula Jimmy Banks team. Here's me and there's Tommy Kalak. There was Ronnie Pavel. There's some other few guys. I can't remember the names.

[01:53] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: And how old were you guys?

[01:54] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: We were like 11 or 12.

[01:57] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Okay.

[01:58] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And anyway, we. Our team was. I mean, I think the way they coached us, if we screwed up, they. They would like. They wouldn't have no mercy on us. They would just say, hey, get your rear end out there and do it right. So when we played the other kids in Fallberg, all the other kids, mostly they were white boys. They'd always get upset because we'd always hit home runs. And I remember me and it was Tommy Kalak. We had. Or the Atomic Boogie. We had this one bat we used to use. It was a black one. And they wanted us not to use that bat because every time we'd use it, we'd hit home runs and we'd just blow them away. I mean, beat them so bad that.

[02:51] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: What was it? Bat corked or something?

[02:53] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I don't know. I don't know. It was just a good bat to use. And I think it was a 29. The 29. But that was pretty neat. But they. I don't know. They would just complain about it every time we'd go and play somebody in Little League. That Was pretty cool.

[03:12] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[03:12] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Then when we went to tell you a story, when went from Little League, I got in the All Star Game, and I was pitching for the All Stars and we were playing Escondido and your Aunt Betty was there and. And stands. And I was little, I was kind of chubby, you know. So when I hit the ball, I had to hit it hard because I couldn't run fast. So I figured, hey, I can mess around with it. I'm just going to hit home runs. So I did. I kept on hitting home runs. And in the All Star Game, I hit three home runs. And every time I hit a home run, my sister would say, that's my brother. But that was pretty neat. I really enjoyed those days.

[03:56] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. I think my baseball career ended in T ball.

[04:00] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, I know you guys, I just wasn't good. But that was pretty good. I mean, because you didn't. You had to try different things. You know, you had to find out what you really wanted to play.

[04:14] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Or did you guys play up in Morongo and Banning and all that? Did you guys go up there?

[04:18] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. Well, see, when I was younger or just. Just kept on playing baseball. And then I started playing hardball with the Rincon.

[04:27] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[04:28] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And then that's when things got pretty. We were really good. Yeah, I mean, we were really good, but we'd play in Morongo, we'd play in Seboba.

[04:38] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: So when we went to Morongo and Seboba, did you play the other Indian teams out there? Was it like a circuit?

[04:43] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, we'd go. We'd go, like, kind of the season. We'd go to different reservations. We never played down here, though.

[04:51] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Who took you guys? Did you load up in a car or a bus, or was it just.

[04:57] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: No, just a car. Yeah, just a car. Your Uncle Palooka used to take us.

[05:03] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, he did?

[05:03] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. And in the little truck at Susie's.

[05:07] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Were you guys in the back?

[05:08] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[05:08] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Going down the road before. Seat belts. Before, like.

[05:11] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, yeah, it was. That was neat.

[05:16] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Dang, it's crazy.

[05:18] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I know. We used to go. Used to be hot. And we didn't drink water. We drank beer.

[05:26] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. But Jesus wonder nobody passed out from dehydration out there.

[05:33] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I know. That was pretty. That was neat, though. A lot of those guys that I knew seemed like they all. Yeah, they're all gone now.

[05:44] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Who were some of the other people you played with or that you remember? I know you say, like Boogie and.

[05:48] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Kalak and Tommy Kalak. There was a lot of guys because the Paul the. We were called. Our team was called the Indian. So Jimmy Banks was a coach and he was also our high school school bus driver. And San Pavel and Ronnie Pavel.

[06:18] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Ronnie was Uncle Chuck's brother. Yeah, he passed away, right?

[06:22] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. Yeah. Then we'd go to during that time too when they'd have the Fiestas.

[06:31] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[06:32] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Know to have games.

[06:35] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Tell us about the fiestas, cuz that's always good.

[06:38] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Oh man.

[06:39] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Where were the Fiestas at? Rincon had one, right?

[06:41] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, Rincon had one. Paul had one and all Fiestas to me was like. It was just one big party.

[06:50] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[06:51] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: During the weekend.

[06:52] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: But they still played P. They still bird songs. They just drank.

[06:55] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: They just drank.

[06:56] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[06:57] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And you play baseball? Like I said, we didn't drink water, we drank beer. We had like our bucket with ice and be here and there and I don't know what it was, but. And down in Rincon I even did this the. You know the 57 Shiva head.

[07:22] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[07:23] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: They. Before the game, there's always somebody that has to screw things up. They'd go out there, spin Brodies.

[07:30] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh.

[07:31] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: So I figured, hey, why not? It's my turn. So I did it. Then everybody was yelling at me, get out of there, you're ruining the film.

[07:41] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: But that was like all the damn dust out there.

[07:44] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, dust.

[07:46] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: It's funny to see the gatherings now because it's separate.

[07:49] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[07:50] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Except for Ring con Rincon.

[07:51] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Still, they're pretty.

[07:52] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: I. I still got like end up getting a fight or falling in love.

[07:58] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Geez. I know Raincon too. We used to play. I used to hang out with down there with my buddy. Old boogie collector.

[08:07] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, Boogie's still alive, I think. Yeah, I think Steve, Steve knows him too.

[08:12] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[08:12] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[08:12] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I think he's got that agent orange or something.

[08:14] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh yeah.

[08:16] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Because that's the last funeral.

[08:19] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, you saw him?

[08:20] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. Alvin was holding him like this.

[08:23] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, wow.

[08:25] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: He's a good guy. But those games that in the summertime were hot. But that's all we did. I mean that was something to do, you know. And you know, there was no Disneyland around. I mean there was, but nobody had cars to go there. So we just played baseball. Baseball, Baseball, baseball. Then when I got into high school, I played baseball. Then you know, girlies come around. That closed that chapter. So.

[09:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Crazy.

[09:11] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: How about. I remember when you. When you were growing up. Remember the time you had that little bike you had.

[09:21] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh as Schwinn Stingray. And I had freaking mirrors on it. And I flipped it came back crying. And he said, get back on. I had cool bikes back then.

[09:36] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: We still have that bike.

[09:38] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, yeah.

[09:39] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: The bike was.

[09:40] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: You could sell to some cholera, probably and chrome it out and make it a low rider because that's what they do. Yeah, yeah.

[09:47] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: They still got this. It's probably worth a lot of money.

[09:52] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. It needs a lot of work though.

[09:54] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: But that's pretty good. That's funny because I tell your mom when you went down the sidewalk and it came back and when you hit that chain link fence.

[10:08] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, yeah, I had to head to the fence. I flipped. I literally flipped over.

[10:11] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. And as being a father, I was thinking, oh, me, I just started laughing.

[10:15] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, of course.

[10:16] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. But I said, get up, get back on that thing.

[10:20] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: There was a time I swallowed nickel and I asked you, I said, what happens you swallow Nick when you said you die. I started crying and then I got sick and then like almost. I don't think I almost died. It was pretty bad.

[10:31] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Then your mom yells and don't we tell him that.

[10:33] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, it was definitely an urban Indian.

[10:39] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I think the part I think was really, really neat was when you started your martial arts.

[10:48] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, yeah, that's fun.

[10:50] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: How old were you when you started that?

[10:52] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Eight. Yeah.

[10:54] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, that was.

[10:56] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Damn classes are still chubby though.

[10:58] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, that was. That was. I think that was good for you.

[11:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. It's kind of funny being here in this particular area. Cuz remember when I used to go to the res with Aunt Patsy for a week or did it a couple times. Remember that time? Aunt Patsy, Uncle Chuck, when I first met him, was playing a softball game here on top of. I remember coming here. I remember the bingo hall was right here where the gym is.

[11:27] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[11:28] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Before the museum is where I work. And I remember the eucalyptus trees being here. And I remember there was an old house when I first started working here. 20 years ago, or not 20, but 2003, I think. 2002, that the house was still here and we were playing around it. It was kind of crazy. So I think they said this was the old fiesta grounds right here. Verona.

[11:48] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: You know what?

[11:49] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Now, now you look at the field, it's like a brand. It's like a minor league field, you know, it's pretty good. Not dirt and stuff.

[11:55] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: You know what I take back about having gatherings over here? Because we did come over here one time. I was like 14 and there was, I think my brother Luca, Joe Herrera, I think Wally Smith from Paula. Somebody else. And we were up for, you know, drinking all time. And about 4:00 in the morning, they were all drunk. And they said they want to go back down to rincon. So being 14, I knew they knew I knew how to drive.

[12:32] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[12:33] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: So I drove them through Wildcat.

[12:36] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, wow. And was he a 67 or what?

[12:39] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: No, it was a 54 Chevy. What was the.

[12:42] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: The. The road, was it 67 to go through Ramona?

[12:46] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: No, back there.

[12:46] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Or did you go the back way over here?

[12:48] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: The back way.

[12:49] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Wow, that's scary.

[12:53] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I know it. Plus, he didn't have no brakes. I had to use the emergency brake.

[13:00] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, jeez.

[13:01] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And then use the gears.

[13:02] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[13:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: That was crazy.

[13:05] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Back then, you only one car in the road that 4am yeah.

[13:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Then we'd go from there. We went from there down to Rincon. Then we used to have our little condo underneath the bridge right there.

[13:18] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, yeah, the bridge. We drank.

[13:20] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[13:20] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Now it's the tree behind the story.

[13:22] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. We had all our spots there. And then Paul, we had right there at the wall. We used to drink. And even the priests came out, tried to, you know, tell us, you shouldn't be doing that. And he actually started drinking wine with us.

[13:38] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Can't beat him.

[13:38] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Join him.

[13:44] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Give you guys communion. A bottle of wine each, huh?

[13:46] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. Like I said, back in those days, there was not too much to do. I mean, play ball.

[13:55] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: It's just funny how even, like up here, it seems like there's more sprawl, suburban. There's more houses everywhere now.

[14:03] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[14:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: So you can't even get from La Jolla to Escondido in like a half hour anymore. It's damn traffic.

[14:08] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[14:10] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Even up here. I mean, there's not that many houses between here and Lakeside. But with the casino, you got traffic too. But up there, it just seems Valley center just got screwed up. Everybody moving up there.

[14:25] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. I used to be verdict. Very, very quiet, the roads around here.

[14:33] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Well, they said. I heard somebody tell me back in the day, I don't know, before the casino, that if somebody came up Wildcat Canyon, they heard him at the bottom of the hill. Yeah, they could hear it. They did. It was so quiet up here.

[14:44] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[14:44] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: That just resonated. Say, oh, somebody's coming up. And they say, who is it?

[14:48] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Just like down. Down home.

[14:50] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[14:52] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Betty's house. You could hear people coming up the grade.

[14:55] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. Before now became a highway to the desert and Julian.

[15:02] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Highway to the stars.

[15:03] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Palomar.

[15:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: You know, I. When we were living down there, I never went up to top of Mount Palmer to that observatory. I think I went.

[15:21] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: I've only been there twice, two or Three times.

[15:23] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I've never been up there.

[15:25] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: You can't breathe when you're up there, like six. No, it's neat. I remember going up there. I think I went with Danny when I was living up there. I go, let's take a ride. All right. And then we just went up there. And you could actually go into the observatory. It's really neat. It was really serene up there. It was nice. But again, the elevation, you gotta walk, you're like, yeah. Time was smoking too. It was like, God dang, this is crazy. No, it's pretty up there, though. It really is. The road's crazy.

[15:53] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, it's nice up there.

[15:55] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: No, it's really nice.

[15:56] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: We took your lady up there. Get the acorns.

[16:00] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, is that when Aunt Patsy started calling her a little acorn?

[16:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, little acorn, yeah. Pretty neat.

[16:14] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[16:15] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: You know, when my.

[16:16] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: We gotta put in for housing up there.

[16:18] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: That's what I was. I was gonna say I should put in for it and then just give it to you.

[16:23] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, well, we just need one. Because, I mean, it's always a good place just to have. Because I know it's gonna be forever, but I'd rather have my own. Well, I'd rather have. I don't want to be next to people. I don't mind being close to them. I don't want to be. There's so much land up there, you.

[16:38] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Know, it'll be good. Like grandpa said, you know, in Kai, it'd be nice. But it was cost so much money.

[16:47] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: It take a half a million dollars in Kai. Even though that's ours, we have to worry about it. It's our land.

[16:56] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Win the lottery.

[16:58] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, win the lottery. Put a gate and get a couple dogs. Get an arsenal.

[17:08] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: It's pretty up there, though.

[17:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: It's pretty. Yeah. That's what's funny about even Barona. Like, I think I'll go on record our reservation's prettier, but.

[17:16] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, it is.

[17:17] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Verona's pretty damn nice, so, you know, the trees and the sunsets are great up here.

[17:24] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: It's weird because when you look, I remember your grandpa used to say, you know, you. You live down here and you got to see what's on the other side of the fence. And he's telling me, he says, yeah, you got to see what's on the other side of the fence. But got always remember that. You'll come back.

[17:43] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[17:45] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And then when, like I said when I left there, when I was in high school, you know, I stayed gone for so long that I didn't When I did go back, it was like, God, it's beautiful down here. You know, you don't see things when you're living in an area. You take it for granted. Like you don't see the beauty of things.

[18:07] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: I just talked about this today with a group of two students from USD is that I think we're very fortunate that our reservations are on our ancestral land. We didn't get moved like the Cherokee. We didn't get moved like these people to Oklahoma. We get to still a small part of it, but at least we have our ties, you know, which is kind of neat. But. No, I mean, just our reservations are pretty. I mean, even whenever from Morongo, which Morongo looks like a desert, but coming home, the sunsets were freaking amazing. You're just like, wow. I mean, it was nice up there. Like, we are fortunate. Even though, you know, Morongo is kind of a higher. Like the sunsets were pretty, the landscape was pretty, but Verona is one of the prettiest. I mean, yeah, like I said, I love our reservation. I'm biased, but we have trees and stuff like that. But this nice reservation. But I feel the same about. Even Viejas has that. But just hear the, the hills in the background. You look for the tribal offices in the back area. It's freaking beautiful. And you go look on the other side in the rocks and yeah. Then, you know, you see like every reservation you see a car up, car in the driveway that is run or trash and stuff like that. But that's everything kind of, kind of goes with it. He say, oh, you take the reds.

[19:20] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: It's funny how it. Long time ago, you know, on the reservations you go and you see all these cars. You know this. Then once the casinos came in, seemed like, oh, they cleaned it, cleaned it.

[19:33] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Up sometimes, not all the time.

[19:34] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Except for Victor's place. One time he had what, 30 cars there.

[19:43] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Mike had a 51 truck. Remember, it burned.

[19:46] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I know.

[19:47] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Flathead.

[19:48] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And then Danny had that 49 lead sled. It was 51.

[19:51] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Was it 51 or 52? It wasn't 49. Oh no, it was a 52, I think.

[19:56] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[19:58] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Still lost it though. I know you want your life. You want your beat up Fred Flintstone car that's a classic.

[20:07] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: That would take a lot of money to fix. Yeah, they were lucky that fire didn't burn that house.

[20:15] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: So why don't you want to go back to the reservation and live right now? What's. What are you thinking? I mean, I have my reasons why.

[20:22] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I think, you know, I should have thought about this when I was your age.

[20:27] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[20:28] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: But I just didn't think about it. I just, you know, I've always been a worker and I just work. I like working.

[20:37] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[20:38] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And I just didn't feel at the time you would. I'd want it. But, but I think right now is, is because of your, your mom. Yeah, that'd be, that's, that's.

[20:52] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: She's a city girl and she's close to my aunt who's a girl.

[20:54] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. And. And being that she's diabetic.

[20:58] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[20:59] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Living up there, if something happens, well.

[21:02] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: You got Indian health. I mean, it's different.

[21:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: No, no, what I'm saying is if something happens, you know, you have to get down that hill or something.

[21:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[21:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: If it's in the wintertime, it's snowing or something.

[21:12] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. It doesn't snow that often though. No. I think with me, the, my hesitation is I want to be. I don't want to be near certain elements of people up there.

[21:23] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Why not? They're your people.

[21:24] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. Because they don't work. You know, it's like. I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say that.

[21:29] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I know that.

[21:31] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: I wish you could, you could pick your neighbors. Like they're. If it's my family, that's cool. But if it was like, you know, some. Because there's people who are still like partying up there and I, I want peace and quiet. You know what I mean? That's, that's the thing I want. But it's, it's not too bad. And another thing too is traffic. Like I work here now.

[21:48] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[21:48] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: You know, but if I had to drive into San Diego, that's an hour and a half drive. You know, when I was in San Diego State, I used to leave the house and this was in 90. What, 96. Yeah. I used to leave the house at 6:00am for my 8:00 class. If I left at 6, I got to school at 7, 15. If I left at 6:30, I got to school by 8 or I was late. And that was over 20 years ago. So God forbid I've had a job in San Diego. I had to be there at 9. I have a. Leave a reservation at 5. It's just. Yeah.

[22:26] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I mean, yeah, that's.

[22:27] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: I mean, now if you work up there.

[22:29] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. It's different.

[22:30] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: If I stayed here, which. This is my second round back, who knows what's going to happen. I'm happy where I am, you know, it's still an hour to get here, but I mean, it took me 40 minutes to get here today from Rancho painting skitos. But. Yeah, I don't know. But I think we should put in for it, just to get it going.

[22:55] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. I don't know.

[22:57] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Taxes too.

[22:58] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, I think. I think with me, it's just. I'm. I don't know, I. Maybe I have that vision of the way I was when I was living there when I was in my teens, and I don't want that.

[23:18] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, but it'd be nice to get a house up there. Just to even live part time, like.

[23:21] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[23:22] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: You know, just to have. Not a summer house, per se, but just you guys go up there for a little while, go back down, you know, we go up there for a little while. I don't know. I don't want anything crazy because it does get kind of congested where I am. You know, we own two condos and.

[23:41] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: It'd be nice, though.

[23:43] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, Just to get it going. Yeah, I think it'd be cool just to get. And do it right. Get the solar going. I mean, honestly, I want to get a well, too, but I don't mind buying water. Well, you don't need to buy water. You could actually pay the trout to bring it up. But I'd rather have a well up there.

[23:56] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: A big tank.

[23:57] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, I get a big tank and fill it up. I mean, what's it 5,000 gallons is like. Well, used to be 300 bucks, but it's probably more than that now. But they have a tank. They have a truck there.

[24:06] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: So, like, we should do that.

[24:08] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[24:10] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[24:10] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: You would now be okay in 20 years.

[24:14] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, that's why I said I should have. I should have did.

[24:16] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, but you're an elder. You go up there, you get priority.

[24:19] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: You know, And I could tell I'm homeless.

[24:22] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. You don't have a house. You say kicked you out?

[24:25] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. I can't believe my son kicked me out of his own house.

[24:30] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: No, it'd be cool to be like, where. Not quite where Vic is, but that.

[24:36] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Place right there where your Aunt Patsy is. That one.

[24:39] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Is there a section right there?

[24:41] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yes.

[24:41] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Is it above it or below it?

[24:42] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: It's below it. Do you know where that big rock is?

[24:44] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Is that where Uncle Chuck used to clean his deer?

[24:47] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[24:47] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Is it right there? Really?

[24:48] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[24:50] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: But look who your neighbors are.

[24:51] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I know.

[24:52] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: I mean, besides that patching with Chug, there'd be good neighbors, you know, but.

[24:55] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: No, that's where it is. You know where they're.

[24:57] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, that's Pretty. It's oak tree there.

[25:00] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[25:01] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[25:02] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: That'd be pretty cool.

[25:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: I think so. Yeah.

[25:06] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I have to talk to enough carries.

[25:08] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: I like. I like where Sam lives. It just like. Damn it. They can put like an extra 25ft between the houses. It looks like a damn track home.

[25:15] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, but he's.

[25:16] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Nice place. He's right in the corner. He's that cool rock right in front. All the kids play on. No, he has. And did you see how far his freaking line goes to. Yeah, you can put another house back there. No, I. No, it's. I mean he got. He got lucky that he has good neighbors, I think.

[25:36] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[25:36] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. They're cousins.

[25:40] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: But something to look into because they probably take a while. Yeah.

[25:51] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Have you been to our casino?

[25:52] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. I won a couple hundred bucks. A hundred? Did you? Yeah. Yeah.

[25:58] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Waiting for that check to roll in. I quit my job.

[26:00] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Huh. I don't know. I'm.

[26:06] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Should have opened the dispensary.

[26:08] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, they do have one up there.

[26:11] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: S. Isabel.

[26:12] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: San Isabel. Yeah.

[26:18] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: It's okay.

[26:19] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, life is good. Yeah.

[26:26] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: There must be fields of illegal.

[26:28] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[26:29] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Crop in the back. Didn't Mike steal a bush and was running down the road with it or something like that?

[26:34] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: No, him. Him and Victor went back there.

[26:37] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh.

[26:38] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And I guess they had some guards back there in the canyon down there.

[26:43] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: That's probably like freaking.

[26:44] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And that plane used to come in every month or something.

[26:47] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: And that's probably cartel stuff, right? Like.

[26:50] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And then Mike said, yeah, we're down there and shoot. They start shooting. So we got a plant. We just start running. Or Victor, you know, Victor, they're probably.

[27:01] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Teenagers out two Indian kids, a plant running around.

[27:06] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: That's crazy.

[27:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: I bet you go back there, you still find some stuff growing.

[27:11] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: It probably is.

[27:12] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. That's funny. Now it's legal.

[27:16] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I know it.

[27:18] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: What are we doing? We should become farmers.

[27:24] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Freaking things back there to Grandpa every tell you that story with the little footprints. Oh, he said that when he was growing up, I was back there walking with him. Benny said, yeah, down there with them, I guess. There's a man made little lake. He said there used to be these little footprints and they were little. Used to call them little people.

[27:51] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, little people. Remember asked you what the name was for.

[27:54] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[27:54] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Remember that? And then Patsy said like she. She told me the name, but there was another name for. But I don't know if that was Kumeyaay or Luceno. And I thought it was empun, but in poon means basket. Yeah, but no, they have like loud little People they say, yeah, yeah, they'll take your wallet when you pass out. That's your cousin. That's all the little people.

[28:16] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And we used to run around back there every time that story when we were little, there's, I guess, palooka and baby. And those guys used to have a trailer they'd put the hay on over where Uncle Joe used to live. The street was like this. Then their driveway kind of went down. Well, I was playing on the side right there. And they were playing with that little. That trailer.

[28:53] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[28:54] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And I guess I was in the way. They ran, ran me over. I didn't get hurt, but because I was chubby.

[29:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[29:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: So just. That was weird. Then Grandpa used to say too, that right there where the wild berries used to grow. So that night. So you could hear Stagecoach.

[29:20] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, really?

[29:21] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. Then down there at Susie's house, she used to tell me this. Then we used to run around there.

[29:29] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah, the hanging tree, right.

[29:31] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[29:34] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: And then that was right by the stage stop on.

[29:39] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: No, no, it's on the property.

[29:41] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: No, but. But the property was by a stage stop.

[29:44] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[29:44] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Like down the street from there.

[29:45] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[29:46] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Right by where the 60. What was it? The 76 and the road coming from Rincon. Yeah. That damn true. Is that true, though? The early hanging tree or they just say.

[29:56] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: No, it was.

[29:59] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: They say people your footsteps when you're walking at night.

[30:03] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And you know what? From Susie's house, I used to run down to Dennis's house.

[30:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[30:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And I. And it was at night, but we had like a little trail.

[30:14] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[30:14] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Me and Patsy used to go that way. And I remember going down there. It was dark, but I just knew which way to go.

[30:21] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[30:22] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And I was thinking to myself, gee, in the summertime, he'd run it through there. There was a rattlesnake. Yeah.

[30:27] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: You're worried about damn snake. And like a ghost. Remember that time we spent the night there? I think it was me, you, mom, and I think Julie went with us. And it was freaking windy and the damn peacocks were crying and Julie was in the room by herself. We were like, you should have came in the other room with us. She was like, I couldn't sleep. Well, shit, I couldn't sleep either. It was scary.

[30:48] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I remember when Jenny's husband, Johnny.

[30:51] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, yeah.

[30:52] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: We took him down this one. Me and your mom just got married. And him and I were drinking beer and then we went to sleep. The peacocks got on top of the roof.

[31:02] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, yeah.

[31:03] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And they start.

[31:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[31:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Johnny said, what the hell is that? He said, a peacock yeah.

[31:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: And that roof was just wood, right? It wasn't like a.

[31:12] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Just wood.

[31:13] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: There wasn't a cellar or anything. Right.

[31:17] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: It was an attic.

[31:18] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: That's right. So everything. I hit that thing with a leaf. Hit it. You're like, what the hell? Who's in the old house?

[31:28] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Nikki's son.

[31:31] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Which. What son was that?

[31:33] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Oh, Disney. I can't think of his name.

[31:35] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Would they be cool if we went up there?

[31:37] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[31:37] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. Just to show. Just check it out again. It's beautiful property.

[31:41] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[31:43] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Those damn cats. Who has a big fat cat? Was it Pedro or.

[31:46] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, Pedro.

[31:47] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Big fat gray cat, right?

[31:50] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Like a mountain.

[31:50] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. Freaking bobcat.

[31:54] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: She wouldn't give them dry food. You buy that hamburger meat?

[31:58] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: No, that guy was spoiled.

[32:00] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: She had those. She had one. She had Pedro, she had Garo and Tidge. Yeah, And Garo's the one. They used to fly to Wisconsin with her every year.

[32:11] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, yeah. Damn.

[32:15] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: She had some spoiled animals. Your wife. Your wife would.

[32:19] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, yeah.

[32:20] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Fell in love with that place.

[32:22] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: All the cats.

[32:23] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Little dumbolina. Dina. Yeah, she was a cool little goat.

[32:27] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Damn goat would ride in the back of the thing.

[32:29] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: And she golf dog.

[32:33] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: How the hell they keep that pool clean?

[32:36] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I had to clean it.

[32:37] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: You have to lean every day.

[32:38] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. Didn't you have to take the frogs out? Dad was gonna have some people down for a barbecue. So me and Victor had been down there, you know, swimming around, cleaning the pool up, and he was.

[33:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: How was Victor?

[33:05] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: I guess he was. What? I don't know. He was in his 20s.

[33:08] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, okay. Okay.

[33:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: So here comes Grandpa and his Speedos, you know, And Victor tells, damn, Grandpa, go up there and change yourself. He says, what?

[33:21] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Got a vision of a half naked Indian.

[33:24] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: He made his laugh. You know how Victor overreacts. It was funny. Victor, he ruined Grandpa.

[33:34] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Victor, want to go to Casino?

[33:38] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. Tommy said he was in. Where was he at? Was it Palma or. No, he's in Pechunga. I guess he's playing there with a young lady, and I guess she says, well, I'll see you later. And then my dad told her something like that. Oh, does this mean that I ain't going home with you?

[34:02] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[34:04] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: That guy. Yeah. Grandpa was.

[34:08] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Guy as a character.

[34:10] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. He was a cool guy growing up, though, you know, I. There wasn't there. I think the bond between him and I grew stronger when I got older. Yeah, because that period when 15 to when. When I lost your grandma.

[34:31] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[34:32] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: That hurt. Yeah, that hurt bad.

[34:35] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Well, even I bet he talked about it, too. It was funny because we. The way he talked to us. You guys would never talk to him.

[34:42] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, we would never talk to my way.

[34:45] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Every coming. I live with Aunt Betty. He'd come over and, oh, what's for breakfast? It's like saying he wants breakfast, you know? Oh, what's on the menu? Okay, how about some eggs? Yeah, okay. Like shit. Gotta make breakfast. What are you gonna do, you know?

[35:00] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, yeah. When we're growing up, we had our chores we had to do. I remember going down the well, he'd always say, fat boy, go down, get some water. Go down and get it, fat boy, you need some more chops and kindling. So I had Uncle Budisto at Dorothy's. Dad.

[35:26] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[35:27] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Gave me a little saw.

[35:28] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Oh, I remember that.

[35:29] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. And. And used to cut the take forever.

[35:34] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: To cut that saw.

[35:36] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: But. Yeah, those good old days.

[35:41] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah.

[35:41] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: It's true, though. You never forget where you come from. Well, I don't. I. I still look at those days as really happy days.

[35:51] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Yeah. There's bad times, but there's good times out of it, too. That's for anybody.

[35:55] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. But back in the day, history. Yeah. Everybody has their ups and downs, but just move on, you know?

[36:09] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: All right, well, it was a pleasure. Thank you for having us. My name is Rich Rodriguez My dad, Richard Pogo Rodriguez is here, and I know had fun.

[36:19] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.

[36:19] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ JR.: Thank you for recording this.

[36:20] RICHARD A. RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.