Ron O'Brien, Jennifer Chandler Stevenson, and Micki King

Recorded November 1, 2019 Archived November 1, 2019 39:38 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddb002543

Description

Jennifer Chandler Stevenson (60) her coach, Ron O'Brien (81) and her fellow Olympic gold medalist (diving) Micki King (75) reflect on their journeys to, and experiences with the Olympics. They clarify the emergence of women's diving as a professional sport, and the place of their experiences fit in that timeline. They also reflect on Ron's contribution and the contributions of other coaches and athletes in that process.

Subject Log / Time Code

MK gives context on when she started diving, including the gender discrepancy in competitive sports at the time.
JCS and ROB also describe how they began in diving. ROB speaks in particular on how he came to coaching women in the sport.
MK describes the commitment of her coach, Dick Kimball.
ROB describes how he came to be a coach. Then, together, they reflect on ROB's approach to coaching.
They reflect on ROB's relationship with other coaches/the overall growth of the sport.
"There ain't no money in diving," ROB says. JCS reflects on passion in her work as an athlete.
MK reflects on how times have changed with women's sports--"we can't forget history, that it wasn't always there for women."
ROB talks through how he managed emotions/nerves during competitions. JCS also remembers her nerves at the Olympics.
JCS's 1976 gold medal was the last for the U.S. in Olympic women's diving. They reflect on this. The challenges in the growth of the sport, and possibilities for involving younger folks.
ROB on changes in the Olympic games, in particular the impact of global politics; how that diverges from the spirit of the Olympics.

Participants

  • Ron O'Brien
  • Jennifer Chandler Stevenson
  • Micki King

Recording Locations

The Broadmoor

Venue / Recording Kit

Partnership Type

Fee for Service

Transcript

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00:01 Yes, my name is Mickey King. I am 75 years old going on 41 today is Friday, February November 1st 2019. I am in Colorado Springs at the reunions for Olympians. My interview partners are Jennifer Chandler Stevenson and Ron O'Brien coach longtime coach.

00:28 My name is Jennifer Chandler Stevenson. I just turned 60.

00:32 Yikes. Mom today is Friday, November 1st 2019. We're at the Broadmoor Hotel in Colorado Springs for the US Olympic and paralympic reunions. And also to celebrate Ronnie's induction into the Olympic and paralympic Hall of Fame interview Partners today or make a king and we were not teammates but we were Mickey won a gold medal in 3 minutes bring born in 1972 And I want to gold in 1976 and three major springboard and Micki with my longtime did she didn't know it but she was my mentor and I looked up to her and I still do and then my other interview Partners Ron O'Brien who I was fortunate enough to call my coach and he took me to the Montreal Olympic Games then we want to go metal in 1976.

01:23 My name is Ron O'Brien. My age unfortunately is 81 today's date is Friday, November 1st 2019 in Colorado Springs at the Broadmoor Hotel.

01:40 My interview partners are Mickey King and Jennifer Chandler Stevenson. And my relation to them is I was a coach when they were diving and I coached Jennifer.

01:57 On my team

02:02 Well, I am proud to be here to talk about some history and our great sport of diving.

02:12 And you know I started diving way way way before.

02:18 Women and girls were involved in sports in a formal competitive way back in 1950s when I was growing up. There was no Sports in high school or college for women. So when I started diving at the local YMCA, by the way, it was flat for fun. I did it because it was fun to twist and spin and and and to try to make more somersaults and the little kids that were diving with me in the YMCA pool.

02:54 Add so my start was was very basic and it was literally just for fun. And and if it wasn't for that YMCA in my hometown of Pontiac Michigan where they let girls and women use their pool two times a week if it wasn't for that. I wouldn't be me today. I wouldn't be an Olympic champion. I dived in some YMCA meets as a pet growing up and at these meats was at some divers some women divers from University of Michigan and they were being coached by dick Kimball and Dick I saw dick giving them hints and helps and I thought wow, that's pretty cool. And that's what I wanted. That's how I ended up at the University of Michigan dick Kimball did not even know but I was going to go to school there. I showed up one day at the pool.

03:54 And walked in and introduced myself and he was as was Ron O'Brien open to coaching women, even though it was not in their job description. They were not coaching women. That was not what they did. They did it as a hobby and they did it because the girls that showed up in their pools wanted to learn that's exactly why they did it and they were actually defying the rules at least dick Kimball was of their University.

04:29 Should I stop here and let Jennifer know should I continue the whole time?

04:37 Talking to each other. That's what I that's why I wanted to start with that how I started and and Jennifer obviously coming quite a bit behind me. I'm 15 years older than she would have a different start small small country club in Birmingham Alabama out in the middle of the woods where they didn't have anything but a pool Anna to pools actually in a to lock rooms in a potato chip machine. That's all we had out there. And my first coach was Carlos to Cuba's he was the Olympic swimming and Diving coach from Cuba and had escaped to this country and happen to have a summer job at Mountain Brook Swim and Tennis Club away from his college job at Birmingham-Southern College during that summer and so my mom is a swim team chairman and I was on the swim team and we were losing our amit's because we didn't have any divers and my mom was a diver to make it. I don't know if you know that suggested to me that I may be

05:37 So I did and my idol was a girl named Ferris Smith and whatever farra Smith did I did and fortunately she was more of a swimmer than a diver. So she died down the middle fool in the middle of the pool. She bent one knee and that flat feet too terrible and consequently. So was I will then about halfway through that first summer fair quit and I went in and out to my mom I was going to quit too and she said no, I don't think so because you've made a commitment to the team. So you have to you have to do it, you know for the rest of the summer and then let me know what you want to do. Well after Fair quit, I started listening the Carlos and I started dabbing pretty good and I started having fun. It was a different introduction to the sport, but it was so much fun to me. I mean, it was really would we get out to the pool in the morning about 7, and we can get picked up that night about 6, and we would spend all of our time looking in the scammers dabbing, even when practice wasn't taking play.

06:37 Sour dab all day long in between Praxis cuz I like the flying cars coaches for putting up with us a scale that I'm and I'm really curious to hear about Ron and his willingness to take gals on the team when you knew that wasn't quote permitted. Well at the college level you should two things and in your statement, when was a local YMCA. That's how I got started about four blocks from my house. I went there and learn to swim and then they had a springboard on A1A and I got into diving and that's that's how I got started get credit for they were the they were the basis back in the day. They were good place to grow up.

07:34 The other thing you said was about coaching women, especially at the college level. I remember when I started coaching at Ohio State there was no women there was a women's swimming team, but it was in a different place different club team. It was a club team. It was not decided to start a women's diving team.

08:02 You broke broke some broken barriers used to run a summer camp and a couple of the girls from there and then a local girl who also became an Olympic medalist.

08:19 Wanted to trade so I started a team and I figured the heck with the athletic department NCAA. So we dive to hear you until Title 9. I mean Title Nine then becomes that the big barrier breaker for us all but it was coaches like you that got us started before Title 9 in and gave us a place to be. Well, I figured women needed the same opportunity as the men why not. Was there any difference in athletes in the man after a question? Not really? I think I treated everybody the same.

09:03 I expected the same out of them as I did from the men.

09:09 So yeah, they were all in my mind. They were all equal course. They didn't do the same Dives but not right away. But yes, you got roasted ketchup, you know, one of my favorite statements by Michael Kimmel, by the way, I keep mentioning dick because Ronnie was not my coach was coaching gals that we're trying to beat me and I would that I was trying to be so that's the respect was the respect was. So eminent, you know this week we got going on in life, but dick Kimball said something. I think I I would like to have documented one day. He was if I won my first national championships and an interviewer Vive local newspaper guy came up with this pencil in his patent and had to take a quote down from Kimball and he said she said why did it feel like

10:09 Coach a girl to an NCAA are to excuse me an AAU Championship feel like you know, you've coached. Oh, I I don't coach girls and he said I told you just go to Mickey's you just won the Nationals, you know how to feel the coach of girl TOUR Championship. You said you didn't hear me. I said, I don't coach girls and he said all right, I don't get where you're headed. What was he saying coach and he said I don't care what you man. He said I don't coach women. You said I coach people and that's a quote that I think is eminent needs to be out there because at the time there was a difference between men and women that he had he not had that attitude hedron O'Brien not had that attitude that he was coaching people and Jennifer and I wouldn't be the Champions. We were in that day and age.

11:05 My stroke and Micki. I know I went to get Kimball's Camp one summer. I think I thought I turned 13 down there. But I knew that you would go to the pool early before everybody and do at least three of each volume required ice before everybody else got there. So when I started diving with Ronnie and we were training for the Olympic trials, I went out to the pool before everybody else. I did the same thing you did cuz I don't know if it works for you. Maybe we'll talk to me and it was something so magical about getting out there and I was the only person there in the steam is coming up off the river. It was quiet and beautiful just early morning. And so I want to thank you for giving me that little bit of train kept. You never knew that I did I did not

11:58 Well, I just wanted to tell you a little story about how I ended up being a coach.

12:06 All through high school. I took science classes. I want to be an engineer.

12:14 In the summer that I after I graduated from high school. I had kind of a mentor at the Y and I worked as a lifeguard at the pool where he was running the program that summer.

12:30 And I just watched how he loved working with the kids and the kids loved working with him. I don't want to deal with numbers. I don't deal with people.

12:45 Wow.

12:46 Wow, that's awesome. That's when I changed my mind. You know what I always thought that was awesome that you did as a coach you brought that engineering that love of engineering with you into the sport of diving because you taught us some mechanics that were unbelievable and you are always ahead of your time on what we were doing on the trampoline in the weight room what we were doing and you brought a whole different approach. I think to coaching then other coaches did well when I went through college I took I was in the physical education major but I took Kinesiology and Anatomy physiology off all the science things to the sport went when I finally got the coach.

13:38 And then when I was a coach I read stacks of science books and I used to read Russian literature that was translated to see if it was about other sports. But if I could transfer something from the another sport into the sport of diving cuz I felt like physical training was is important is doing the dive you couldn't do the hard drive and that she had the strength and flexibility. So Soviet divers in the East German divers and all the other people from around the world that I don't know.

14:20 I don't know what the other coaches did that or not, but I remember walking into your office one time at Ohio State when I was a freshman. He said I want you to watch these films and I thought what I mean like for an hour and a half but pick up you learned so much. Well, that's when I started Avenue with you to begin with Ronnie. It was cuz I was Carlos is only divert really that was moving up to the National level and it was an opportunity for me to dive with divers that we're better than me and older than me that knew how to do.

14:53 More than I did and so just visually learning by being around people who are better than you is hard to put into words. The other thing I used to do is six weeks before a major national title or trials. We switched gears from I didn't really coach the dive anymore. Tell her you're over short or whatever but we used to have simulated competitions 3 times a week where everybody had to go find their spot sit down come up and do their dive and get scored go back and sit down and just like they would have been me and so we did that three times a week and then the other three days we worked on the Dives at 1 very good.

15:50 So we we had a quite a long preparation for those events the way it probably helped diverse just stay calm and settle down cuz they've been through it so many times, you know, one thing I think back about is, you know, you look backwards. It's in the day and I know I think about the Ohio State and the Michigan and and all that the schools that were competitive in basketball and football and how that was a big a big deal, but there's also competition in the swimming and it was way little littler than you know, Michigan beating Ohio State in football Michigan beating Ohio State in swimming was not a big deal to anybody except all of my side and Michael

16:50 Dick Kimball and then Ron O'Brien and all the other coaches in the conference. I mean, that's huge how you guys were trying to beat each other everyday but good and I think that would be interesting to discuss that you know how it started in it. It developed outward. Kimball never was under my pepe though.

17:21 Hobie Billingsley in myself and I'm trying to think who else but they were a few dick was always a Michigan guy. That's okay. We're really only about four or five major swimming a diving colleges in the country. I mean you had UCLA and what Stanford or something and then you get the Big Ten and then it after you guys coached kids who then went into coaching themselves and then it started getting down into the SEC but for a while it was you and Dick and Dick Smith and Glen McCormick.

18:08 Who else is bobi and Tobi? I just name the five in my ear. And now there's 205 that are that are from the tree that you started their their branches from that tree so many more programs today and that's again because they expanded into Title Nine. We created more more opportunities for for the girls in Fannett colleges had to have more sport. So, but anyway, you were the Olympic coach at my Olympic team, but you weren't my coach.

18:47 Now what happens my Mom and Dad paid dick Kimball to go down to be to sneak sneak coach me. Well only reason that can happen is because you understood you got it, you know, you figured out that Mickey's got here, but help being helped by her her coach Nick Campbell until I get in that relationship that friendship and it was about was bigger than you personally indict person. It was about our Sport and it was about helping the athlete. So I just want to thank you for that understanding and knowing that and having that big of a heart if you will.

19:30 After I retired and I had it changed to think a little more back door what what it was all about. I came to the conclusion in several. My divers have contacted me and said this

19:50 Yeah, it was about winning. It was about Reaching Your Potential but it was the process that you had to go through and I've always said it's like you hold Karen from from somebody and say do you want that say yeah, I really want that. Okay, here's what you have to do and I came to the conclusion that

20:17 Not only was I coaching I Was preparing young people

20:25 Even them

20:28 The right attitude the right way to work to become successful in the rest of their lives.

20:38 That was really more important and that speaks volumes about this man that when that were chatting with right now out the truth is because sports are not lifelong in your competitive mode. You know, you you you you get to a peak and then you have to say hey this is at continuing isn't going to make me any better with some of the Sport's to go onto professional status or different than ours. Could Point Yes lyrics there in it for the money. It ain't no money and then we had students come from all over the state to come in and do a

21:32 Blu hunt treasure hunt around the museum to learn about the different athletes and then I was standing next to my case in the Alabama Sports Hall of Fame in this fourth grade little girl looked at me and said how much money did you win when you win a gold medal as well. I didn't want any and she looked at me and said then why did you do it through the heart because I said, let me ask you my dear. What what are you passionate about? What what in your life? Can you not just you can't not do it?

22:07 And she's looked at the ceiling and look back at me and she just didn't even know so back to your when you started out then it was fun. But at some point it became a passion and it became a passion because of people like you heard any encouragement it let me know that if you if you if you work hard you can you can achieve this but I didn't know I don't even know what the goal was yet when I first got started, you know it take someone is got a vision and a belief in you that if you do work hard and you don't give up that you can achieve your dreams no matter how high your set your goals and then and then also,

22:51 What's so incredibly valuable variable is to teach a young person that it's really okay to set your goals high.

22:59 You know go ahead and dream big.

23:04 You know, you've made me flashback to an incident similar to talking to someone who didn't understand then and now and again I can't have a pre Title Nine. So I'm I'm diving in the 60s that graduated from high school in 62 and 1966. I'm graduating from college and I'm thanking God has two more years before the 68 Olympics and my mom and dad said, hey after your college, you know, you're on your own. We ain't coverin you anymore, and I needed to go to work. But I also needed to make that Olympic team again. I'm an amateur right but I've gotten so close in 68 I needed to make I'm confused take the 222 Olympics, but the point of trying to get to is that I was I wanted to the Air Force in order to have a job.

24:03 So that I could continue training on my own after college because there was no place for women and I had to place in college because they were big enough to allow us, but it when I go into the Airforce because now I had a job and at this job

24:23 And in this is again a history lesson is in in 1960s that there was no such thing as equal pay for equal work. So well as well good point but but the point is I could work in the assembly line at General Motors truck and couch next to a male doing the exact same job. He did and get and get last pay. Okay, so I wanted to make sure that I got equal pay for equal work and I went into the military because the government type jobs were equal pay for equal work back. That's about the important history lesson, but more than that when I was giving a speech at an event and talking about the fact that that there wasn't when I grew up there was no diving or no exported offer women girls in high school. I was sitting next to a banquet for high school students getting Awards.

25:23 And I gave the speech and said hey, I'm so proud that this event is recognizing girls who can finally get get medals and get trophies and get recognized for being athletes. So I went and sat down and these two girls that I was bragging about, but he leaned over to me and they whispered to me. We didn't know it wasn't always there for girls that they totally get up in the morning. It was always there. They didn't understand that there was a fight for it. They just and it was it's a little bit like suffering. You know that voting. I mean we forget that women could always vote. I mean that women had to go to jail and had to go on hunger strikes so we would get the right. So we forget we go vote. We just default buttwheat and and that's okay except we can't forget history. We can't forget history of the voting but we can't forget history that it wasn't always there for women and we can't take it for granted and we can't

26:23 Let it fall on the Wayside what wouldst it's up to today's gals and history going forward that women continue to have their spot.

26:35 Ronnie what did you do to get yourself psyched up before an Olympic event to get myself up site that mean did you have to calm your own nerves? Did you have to talk yourself through this for you? Nervous? I always felt the worst thing a diver can have in an event like that is a nervous coach are keeping my emotions down staying steady not doing anything different than I did. In fact, I'm so glad you didn't yell at me in Montreal held at me sometimes in practice, but I deserved it deserved it. It's a good thing that you were keeping calm.

27:25 Like that during those competitions because Mickey when we got to Montreal and we were working out before the meet started people were asking me questions and I was answering them but it had nothing to do with what they were asking me and I didn't even know I was very I was not in control of what was happening and I had barely been able to make it back to and 1/2 for months and I did it back two and three quarters to my face. I did it again or two in an egg out in the middle of the pool. I mean it was it was sad. It was a member of everyone and I was thinking oh my God, I have zero control of my mind or my body and I did something else equally horrific and Ronnie just came out and said, okay, that's good. Let's go get one and I was thinking okay. That's he didn't Panic getting same thing. I was panicking and then I was so nervous before the meat that

28:23 Of course, I got drawn first in the in the order which I hated everybody hated, but I'm between everyday. I have you made me go back to that massage table and he made me lay down face down and he would pound me from my neck to my ankles into that table. Then he'd make me go jump in the warm-up full for the swimmers, which was about 78u00b0 and then jump in the hot tub and then do my dive and so I basically got freeze-dried between everyday I have pounded so I couldn't even breathe so tight I couldn't really move and it worked but you were in charge you were large and in charge because I had did not have a clear idea of where I was or what was happening. Jennifer. Did you mentioned in this interview that you are the last us a woman diver springboard diver to get a gold medal.

29:21 Citizen 7676 when you on your way out to today, which is 2019. No other woman in USA has gotten a medal in springboard diving. I think that's what we had won gold medals all the way back to Pat McCormick in the forties USA had diving women diving gold medals in springboard diving with a capital D in your gold medal in 76 is the last one to This Day 2019. I think that's a sad a sad stat. Yeah, and I think we need to face that and hopefully we're going different but what what's happened just so cuz we can

30:21 I watched it except here in and then say that if I'm right is that the other countries you catch is catching up with us and I think the end the NCAA is taking over and making a different but when you look back through the years.

30:41 We didn't really have a plan system, but we had a program that kids went from the club to the high school and then they went to college and some of them got scholarships some of the continuous program to help people to continue to get better and in the years since we still have that same system, but other countries are getting tremendous government's support financially and they're building training centers in there taking kids when they're seven eight years old and putting them into a training program. So they've changed and we haven't and I think that's one of the reasons cuz we haven't had that many men neither that good point. Good point. I think the NCAA has

31:42 Killed our our diving programs in in this country because the NCAA is more concerned about that and athletic director who's the boss of the diving coach wants you to get that in today a trench title. They want you here. That's their job making an Olympic team. If a college kid makes an Olympic team. That is really nice though. That's right. I didn't answer. Why you so you know, so it's a bonus to a college coach and that's where most of our coaches are now to to get a Colour Olympic Athlete. It's their job to get the incident. I think they they actually kind of then he's off after school stops and summer coaching is just not toward Olympics NCAA and keep your job.

32:42 Sad thing too. And that is a fact diving boards being taken out of still. He's all over the place and have been for years. So there are no clubs with three mirrors springboard's anymore and some of them with no one meter. So no children aren't even aware. That diving is a sport. They know swimming is a sport. They don't they don't see anybody diving and so

33:04 Because of liability issues, you know, everybody's worried about getting sued and kids getting hurt and somebody was going to get sued and getting her if we would have been mean it didn't happen. So I'm just let these kids have fun and to give it a shot. But so I remember you telling me that you would have these Talent identification camps all over the country and you would go out and then try to get kids to come out and just see if they like the sport just introduce them how to do an approach and how to do a jump and how to do a front that we put a

33:36 When I was National technical director after I finish coaching, we start to put a program together. We had a National Training Center.

33:47 We had a Regional Training Center down in Oklahoma. We put a group of scientists together and developed Talent ID program testing program where a coach could say, okay. We're having talent ID testing today come on in and you take about movie. I don't know if 20-30 minutes and the kids through the program and you tell them and and their parents.

34:20 Hey, you kids pretty good could be a good diver. But that's all gone. Now. I'm really college coaches run the sport.

34:31 And again, their emphasis is on wearing their college championship. They're not caring about the Olympics has a hobby to the college coach. The job is the NCAA. So, how can we get young students young kids exposed to the sport of diving now.

34:55 You got to go out and recruit.

34:58 You got it the town ID kit still sitting in it.

35:04 Out of the closet somewhere in USA diving. It's all ready to go. It's been done. You just got to get the coaches to go out and run the program.

35:18 I don't know who's doing what in USA diving anymore.

35:24 Okay.

35:28 But they need a plan and I don't they don't have a plan anymore by thinking rapping all this up. There is a start of the United States Olympic Committee trying to bring the national governing body with USA diving is under their umbrella a little bit more and forcing these kinds of things to start happening again could make a big difference. We need to know going forward that we have a we have some help there because weird for dying on the vine and we need to rekindle it with with new enthusiasm would be worth discussing in the last few minutes.

36:19 How the Olympic games has changed?

36:23 1968 when you are on the team defense was about five feet high. It was no barbed wire. There was no there were no alarm guards inside my sister climbed over the fence and stayed in the dorm with me and since 72 have an escort to get in. Yeah. Well nothing happened.

36:52 Why was there was a shooting but that was government not very friendly easy going to the games 1972 the Munich people the police were dressed up in gay little outfits that the fence was still kind of love. I went over it right before the Palestinians went in and murdered Israeli cities that changed the Olympic Games the next one when you were there Jennifer we had a high fence with barbed wire. We had dogs walking with armed guards. Yeah. He had to go through a metal detector to get in the village. It's just changed it the whole

37:52 And we had the famous boycott that's completely changed the games even on another level because 84 we had a mini Olympics because the Russians didn't come 2 hours. And so basically what happened was the whole Spirit of Olympus them in the Olympic Games and what it was brought back for by Baron de coubertin was to celebrate.

38:16 The human achievement in the world of Athletics to put down your differences whether they be cultural religious politics. Whatever. Can you just for two weeks? Let the world come together under a lot of peace and money what I do want to say that you cuz we're running out of time. I know is that Mickey? I thank you from the bottom of my heart for being such a great example and mentor to me. I love you. I love you dearly then. I love you more now and Ronnie if it weren't for you. There's no telling what my life would be like now because when I turned 17 on June 13th and 1976 and then won a gold medal in Montreal on July 20th and 1976 it put my life on a path that I could never have dreamed on about

39:14 So thank you makes me feel so good to hear that.

39:19 Well, it's been a great journey and I look forward to continuing if I'm honored to be with the two of you. This is special. This is special and I kept in a place where it will last and and could be appreciated.