Ronald Corio and Lisa Goldstein

[00:04] RONALD CORRIO: Hello. My name is Ron. Last name is Corrio I'm 86 years old. The date is June 11, 2022. I'm in the Storycorp virtual recording room booth, and I'm here with Lisa, my one small step conversation partner.

[00:25] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Hi, my name is Lisa. I'm 55 years old. The date is June 11, 2022. I am in the story corps virtual reading booth, and I'm here with Ron, my one small step conversation partner.

[00:54] RONALD CORRIO: Sure, I have it. I'm a working mom who recently became an empty nester. I have two children, and I have been married 25 years. My grandparents eloped because one was protestant and one was jewish. The family did not support the marriage. My father was the first in his family to go to college and then law school. He put myself, brothers and sister through college and law school, and we all work hard and have successful careers. He suffered a stroke and had trouble speaking the last ten years of his life.

[01:40] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Oh. Growing up in a small town, I registered as a Republican. My first presidential vote was for Eisenhower. I was active in the local republican organization and supported Goldwater in 1964. The youthful revolution of the 1960s was the beginning of a change in my politics. When I moved to a college town and met people of different nationalities, cultures, and religions, my political beliefs continued to change. I consume a lot of political news and information. Ron, why did you want to do this interview today?

[02:20] RONALD CORRIO: I'll answer your question, but I want to say something first. Lisa. Sure. Your bio. I could have written the same thing myself.

[02:28] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Oh, do tell. Let's hear.

[02:30] RONALD CORRIO: I was originally registered as republican. I voted for Eisenhower. I. I voted for Goldwater. I grew up in central Pennsylvania in a small town, very rural, very republican.

[02:46] LISA GOLDSTEIN: What town?

[02:48] RONALD CORRIO: Central Pennsylvania. The town is Phillipsburg, Pennsylvania. It's very small.

[02:51] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Okay.

[02:52] RONALD CORRIO: So it's interesting. I could mirror just exactly what you said because I went through going to college and just broadening my experience and meeting other people, other cultures, doing some travel, and it really has changed my mind quite a bit. Now, you asked me why I wanted to do this interview. Do you want to say anything before I go on?

[03:21] LISA GOLDSTEIN: No, go ahead.

[03:23] RONALD CORRIO: Okay. Well, I read about Storycorps, and I like the mission of Storycorps in the building. I live in an apartment building. And I tried at some point to get people to together, people with different political beliefs and thinking that to get together and talk in hopes that this would help us bridge some differences and find some commonalities. Unfortunately, it didn't work. Maybe I didn't go about it the right way, but it seemed that I got some people who were on the, I guess I would call it the liberal side who were willing to do it, but no people on the conservative side were willing to do it. So, you know, I wanted, I'm looking for some method where we can bridge the gap and talk to people of different political persuasions. How about you?

[04:25] LISA GOLDSTEIN: I as well. So I am a Republican. I am a very moderate Republican. I have a lot of liberal friends and I have republican friends. I think especially with the culture, in the past four years with social media, it's been a challenge even to disagree with someone's viewpoints and make a comment without a lot of assumptions. And I'm also a former practicing lawyer. I'm on the business side of the law. But that's how I was educated to have dialogues as a lawyer about different opinions and accept them. I mean, if you look at Ginsburg and Scalia, they were on opposite sides of the fence, yet they could go socialize and be best friends. And I think it's a little scary where we are in this country right now with such opposing viewpoints, representing both parties, especially the republican party, where I feel even uncomfortable saying that I'm a Republican and not having it respected for what it means to me.

[05:47] RONALD CORRIO: Well, well, excuse me. I'm a Democrat. I was a Republican first active in the Republican Party and a Goldwater supporter, but I've become a Democrat, and that's what my registration is. And I guess I'd have to say that pretty far on the liberal scale. And. Yeah.

[06:18] LISA GOLDSTEIN: So I guess my question is, Ron, and again, I think we define these things like, look, everyone knows what an extremist is. I'm not that. But what does liberal mean to you in terms of what viewpoints?

[06:37] RONALD CORRIO: Well, let me say that particularly on social, I'm very liberal on social issues. What does liberal mean to me? How to answer that question, it's very much people centered and social issues centered my liberal beliefs. I don't know how to describe it any further. Can you prompt me with some, maybe other questions into that?

[07:07] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yeah, I mean, I think, again, sometimes we just get caught up. Are there specific policies that mean a lot to you that you feel strongly about? When you say social, what does that mean?

[07:26] RONALD CORRIO: Good question. Social policies, I believe the government should provide some social support to people. So I'm generally supportive of government policies that help people. Social Security is an example. Healthcare, a strong proponent for the Health Care act, the affordable Health Care act. And I also believe strongly in separation of church and state and, you know, religious differences in religion and politics really concern me and lead me to believe that that's where we get into some of the problems. Boy, I don't know. Can you ask me another question?

[08:17] LISA GOLDSTEIN: No, that's a good answer. Tell me about your. About my political beliefs. Political beliefs. Well, I think this is a country, so my ancestors were actually in the militia on one side and came over and I believe very strongly in the ideals of our country, that it is a place where anyone can succeed. And those are the fundamentals. The country, I think, you know, socially. Yeah. Do I support Social Security? Yes, but also because I paid so much into it, I don't think it's fair that they would eliminate it in terms of healthcare. I don't know. I mean, my husband sells insurance. It wouldn't be great if it was institutionalized. I just don't think the government does such a great job when they take on any program. So I would be hesitant to take the corporate asian out of the mix. I think if you look at the post office, it's a good example of the government not doing so well. I had a package that was shipped. One was ups, one the post office got involved and it just disappeared and it's taking them long. So I don't know. I think we all. We have to encourage people to work, though. And I think if we look now, some of the social policies are encouraging people not to work and that's why we have a work shortage.

[09:58] RONALD CORRIO: Yeah. I have some other questions. After reading your bio, your parents were two different religions?

[10:07] LISA GOLDSTEIN: My grandparents. Well, yes, and my parents. My mom converted.

[10:12] RONALD CORRIO: Okay.

[10:12] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yes.

[10:13] RONALD CORRIO: Did that become an issue for you? The difference, did that become a problem? Were you able to negotiate and get through that?

[10:20] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Okay, that's a great question. I think maybe subtly, but not as overtly because the times had changed by the time I was growing up. But people make assumptions, I think. You know, when I grew up, we were raised in a jewish culture, so everyone might did say some negative things about non jewish people, like in my presence, assuming that I wouldn't care. But flip side, I had a lot of friends that aren't jewish, and I still do. And most people I work with are not jewish. So I'm not surrounded by jewish people all the time, and they make negative comments about jewish people. So assuming that I wouldn't care as well, because I just think people tend to make negative comments about groups that they're not in.

[11:20] RONALD CORRIO: Yeah. I want to ask you about your career. First of all, I'm going to say I started out in. Actually, I went to college, right out of high school.

[11:34] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Where did you go?

[11:35] RONALD CORRIO: Penn State University.

[11:37] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Oh, yeah, I went to Penn State as well. We have that in common. Go, Nanny Lyons.

[11:42] RONALD CORRIO: I'm in Richmond, Virginia, by the way. Where are you, Lisa?

[11:46] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Well, I am sitting right now in Margate, New Jersey, but we also have a house in Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania.

[11:52] RONALD CORRIO: Well, at any rate, I went to Penn State University, and I, two years later, I flunked out.

[11:59] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Sorry to hear that. Too much partying?

[12:02] RONALD CORRIO: No, I was pretty wet behind the ears, pretty naive, and I decided to enroll in mechanical engineering because mechanical engineers, engineers, period, were earning the top dollar at that time. And I thought, I want to earn the top dollar. Well, that was a bad choice. So it took me two years to exit. My father gave me a job in his real estate and insurance agency, and I worked there for a while. From there, I went to a savings and loan, from there to commercial bank, and then I spent over 20 years in commercial banking, in real estate and mortgage lending and property management.

[12:46] LISA GOLDSTEIN: And was that with your. A different company? What company was that with?

[12:50] RONALD CORRIO: I ended up with Mellon bank.

[12:52] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Oh, that's where my son is with. Bank in New York. Mellon in Pittsburgh.

[12:57] RONALD CORRIO: Well, it started out in small banks in central Pennsylvania, but the bank I worked with grew itself, and then Mellon bought it.

[13:06] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Great.

[13:07] RONALD CORRIO: However, I kind of bailed out on that. I reached the level of my incompetence, Peter Principle. And so I was kind of sidelined. I decided to leave banking, go back to college, and get a degree, which I did. And after getting a degree, I went into the Peace Corps, and I spent two years in Costa Rica, and there I taught some English in the second language. And that led me to go back to school to get a master's degree in teaching English to speakers of other languages. And that I ended up finally, I had one job for one year, and then I got a job with Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Virginia. And that brought me here, and I've been here ever since. Now I'm retired now. So I'd like to hear about your career, what you do.

[14:09] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Sure. So I'm a former practicing lawyer, and I was in the recruiting industry for a long time in various executive positions. I also did sales training. So I've always been on the business side of things. And right now I work for a court reporting company, selling large court reporting cases. And, you know, I think I've been a working mother, and it hasn't always been easy. So I think, you know, I've seen a lot of different changes in attitudes and work life. Balances. But I will say my husband has always been very supportive and always help with the children. And even, you know, I was kind of on the cusp when women started getting out there more aggressively in the workforce.

[15:06] RONALD CORRIO: Being an attorney, it seems to me that many politicians are attorneys or have been attorneys or attorneys. Have you ever had any political desires to get involved in politics?

[15:20] LISA GOLDSTEIN: No. So, you know, I think that's the problem. I was a member of the Union League in Philadelphia, which is a pretty republican organization. I only dropped out because of COVID and I wasn't going that much, and I was a member of a club table there. But I don't have any political aspirations. I think my focus in terms of success has more been on the business side of things. That's been more of my passion, the business world.

[16:03] RONALD CORRIO: When I lived in a small town in central Pennsylvania, Phillipsburg, I was on the city council. So I guess that's been my only political experience there. I want to ask you, too, about. You're an empty nester. So was that difficult? How was the converging from being a parent and full time, the children living there to being no one there? The children weren't there. How did that go?

[16:34] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yeah, it's hard. I miss my kids. I mean, they still come around. My daughter right now is doing an internship in Israel. My son is in Pittsburgh. She'll be home for just a month, and she goes to school in Florida and he's in Pittsburgh. So I think it's just been challenging to figure out what my future looks like in the balance and everything's kind of in flux. So I love my kids and they're going different places and I'm happy for them, but it's been hard as a mom.

[17:11] RONALD CORRIO: So you said you went to Penn State. Did you go to the main campus?

[17:15] LISA GOLDSTEIN: I did, yeah.

[17:17] RONALD CORRIO: How was life in state college for you? I mean, I lived there for a number of years.

[17:22] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting that you say that. So just bringing up different experiences. I had a black roommate when I first went to Penn State, and we got along, but we had a lot of cultural discussions. We wound up like parting as roommates somewhat amicably, but it was, you know, we actually had dialogues just like this about different things. I traveled to nice, and that's where I met all of my really good friends. I actually live in the DC, Virginia area, a lot of them so near you. And I had an overall good experience. I didn't have join a sorority or anything like that. That's not my personality. But, you know, I think Penn State is challenging, like you say, like engineering. Sure, that's really challenging. Very good in math and really have that course, have the wherewithal to follow that course. So certainly competitive. I was a marketing major, and it was competitive, too, but I liked it. Always a good student.

[18:42] RONALD CORRIO: Well, I went back to Penn State at age 50, and it was fun going back to college, especially leaving the workplace. And going to college was a nice experience. I majored in real estate and insurance because that was my, I guess my one forte, my one place where I had experience. And I just wanted to get a degree to show that I can graduate from college. But I was sitting in the Hetzel Union building having lunch one day, reading the daily collegiate newspaper, and I saw a notice where you could study abroad. And I thought, wow, that sounds interesting. I looked into it and ended up doing a semester in Peru, my next to last semester of my senior year in Lima, Peru. And that was a wonderful experience. And, you know, that's just one example of how travel and being in different cultures has opened my mind up and I guess expanded my visions in some ways and my understanding of other peoples, other curses, other religions, and it was a great experience.

[19:59] LISA GOLDSTEIN: So what do you think the United States could learn during this time from other cultures, from your experience?

[20:07] RONALD CORRIO: Wow, probably a lot. I'm going to take that question down a little bit. One of my hopes and wishes is that people would do more travel, and it wouldn't be travel that organize tours, although that's better than not traveling. But we just travel and live among, see other people, other cultures, and experience that. I think that would expand our minds, expand our understanding of other groups of people and make us more accepting. I don't know how. Another way to answer your question, though.

[20:50] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Okay. What has your family life been like?

[20:58] RONALD CORRIO: Well, I was married, had three children, married for 13 years, and then divorced. A little bit of naivete on my part and inexperience, unfortunately, brought the marriage to a conclusion, and I wanted to also. I kind of jumped from being a responsible teenager or young twenties into marriage, and I felt I skipped a lot of experiences. So the freedom from marriage enabled me to do a lot of travel, to do more things. And so I have three children. They all live in the west coast. My son went to ended up in San Francisco. At one point, my daughters and I went out to visit him, and my daughters were so impressed with the West coast. One daughter lives in San Francisco, the other in the Vancouver, Washington. Washington, across from Portland, Oregon.

[22:13] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Nice. So jumping back to the content a little bit. Is there something about my beliefs that you don't agree with but still respect?

[22:24] RONALD CORRIO: Well, first of all, I respect everything you said, and there are probably some things that I don't agree with. Well, obviously we have a difference in terms of health insurance. We talked about that. I respect your point of view. Trying to think of other things, you being Republican, me being Democrat, you know, that's a label. So we just need to dig deeper into each individual to see that takes me to, I'm going to gear off your question a little bit. I'm really upset with what's happening in the Republican Party right now, and I wish more people like yourself would there be more pushback from Republicans who feel that we're going the wrong way and the party's going the wrong way.

[23:22] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you on that. I just feel like there's not a lot that can be done unless you're sitting in a seat of power. And I probably think there are more moderates like myself out there than one would assume.

[23:43] RONALD CORRIO: I don't know what a person could do like yourself. You know, last night I watched the, I guess it was, it was Thursday night, two nights ago, I watched the hearing of the Judiciary committee hearing, and I, Lynn Cheney impressed me so much in how she presented her feelings and how she stepped out of her Republicanism, so to speak, to speak to what's important for our country.

[24:18] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yeah.

[24:19] RONALD CORRIO: Really impressed by that.

[24:20] LISA GOLDSTEIN: No, I mean, I agree with you. It's terrible. I mean, I was crying when the incident happened. It's just, how can this happen in the United States? But I don't have a solution. I mean, I just, it's, it's disgusting. Like, and a lot of republicans aren't helping. So I don't know.

[24:42] RONALD CORRIO: Well, I'm really concerned for democracy. I wonder how you feel about that.

[24:49] LISA GOLDSTEIN: What do you mean by concern for the democracy? Can you elaborate?

[24:53] RONALD CORRIO: Well, I feel we're in a battle between democracy and autocracy, and it seems like pretty much an even battle right now. And I see Trump and his supporters being more autocratic and less democratic. And that concerns me. That frightens me for our country.

[25:24] LISA GOLDSTEIN: I mean, I am frightened as well. So I don't know if it's the system or the players. I think it is the players because I do believe in the system. And, you know, I think there's got to be better players than Donald Trump to come to power. And it would, it would scare me. I mean, I did a vote. I voted for him initially not the second time I didn't vote at all. I just don't know. I do think it is not a great situation.

[26:13] RONALD CORRIO: I don't know what else.

[26:23] LISA GOLDSTEIN: That either of you feel like marked your political evolutions or a moment in your lives when you felt like a political issue became personal to you. Yeah, that's a great question. So I was managing a group of people when Donald Trump won the election, and this didn't change my perspective really, but a little bit. And I think just the fact that I was a Republican, there was some animosity in my work group over that. And people did put labels on me and make assumptions, which I don't think is fair. And that was another reason that I was interested in this conversation, because, again, you can't assume, like, I think the way the world is now, you're either a Democrat or Republican. If you're a Republican, these are what your beliefs are. If you go on any social media and even say, I'm a Republican, you will get attacked. So I think it's hard to be a Republican now, and it doesn't mean you're racist. Like, people will say you're racist because you're republican. I am not racist. Like, that's not at all like. But I think that's just the way people believe.

[27:56] RONALD CORRIO: Yeah, that's. That's one of the dangers of we make a lot of mistakes by generalizing and stereotyping. And stereotyping. Yeah, exactly. Well, to the question of where did my political beliefs or what watershed moment changed me, I go back. I have to go back, maybe even beyond politics. I was raised a Catholic and, you know, grew up in a catholic family. I was an altar boy in the catholic church. So I was a pretty strong. I had a pretty strong belief in my religion. But a couple of things started to think and led me down a path where some changes made my beliefs. One was, first of all, when my children became old enough to go to catechism, and they were being taught things, some of which I didn't agree with and some which I didn't believe. And I felt that by going, showing myself as a parent as part of that faith was a lie to them. So I had to start. I started to withdraw from the catholic church. And that was motivated and helped by two art pieces. One was Jesus Christ Superstar and the other was hair. Listening to those two things and watching those things really changed my life in a big way. And, you know, that started, I was on my. On my way to moving away from my religion. And so politics where did the change come in politics? Moving out of Phillipsburg, moving on to Penn State, and then later living in Penn State, in state College, Pennsylvania, in a college town, just kind of opened my eyes and ears to different ideas and thoughts. And, you know, that started to change my politics. That was kind of a watershed moment for me.

[30:24] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yeah. And I still, you know, I think, for me, my example didn't say where it changed, but I think when I first started my career, I joined the Union league, which is really republican, and the motto is love of country leads. And I really feel strongly that way. So I am hopeful that our country will come back to the beliefs that it was founded upon. And there's nothing wrong with that. This is America, and I still think it's the best country. I think we're struggling right now, but every entity, every person has their ups and downs. And I believe, I do have a strong faith. It might not be again defined by one religion or the other, although I identify as jewish. Like, I'm not really religious, but I do believe in God and any form of God. So I believe we'll get there. I think that this country will find its balance. We're just stumbling.

[31:29] RONALD CORRIO: Interesting. Yeah. Well, I feel like you. I love the United States. I'm glad I'm a citizen and a part of the United States. I think it's a great country. I think we do many wonderful things. And I think in many ways, in a lot of ways, we're a beacon to the world. But that doesn't mean to me that we can't be better. And I sometimes, well, I don't know that I get criticized, but I see where people criticize anyone that would point to a fault in this country. And, you know, I was glad to hear you say that. We have our problems, we have our mistakes, and I'm one for working to make things even better. Yeah, I agree with you pretty much.

[32:23] LISA GOLDSTEIN: And I think another thing that's important about this project is I am afraid to speak out. You ask me, what can we do? I'm literally afraid for my career to speak out because my opinions are different than a lot of people. I think we need to write this ship. The right leadership and the right leadership has not been identified. Hopefully they will soon.

[32:55] RONALD CORRIO: I have a question. Have there been any democratic presidents that you liked in some ways or respected in some ways?

[33:07] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Of course, just like my example of Scalia and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I have dear friends on the other side. I don't think anyone is one thing. Did I agree with Barack Obama's policies? No. Did I like him as a person? Sure. So, no, some policies I agree with. You can't. And that's the problem. You can't just say, this is how it is, and it's a black and white, not skin color, but political issue. And that, and that is really why we're stumbling, because people in either party are just afraid to lose reelection and they're not taking stances that might be not along the party lines, and we can't even get things passed. So it's a little scary. Yeah.

[34:03] RONALD CORRIO: Yeah. I think of a republican president. Well, I told you my first vote for president was Eisenhower. Of course, looking back on his record, I feel I liked Eisenhower as a president. Not a lot of what he did. He's pretty much not in vogue in the current republican strain after, let's see, after Eisenhower, Nixon. Well, I thought Nixon was okay until he got into trouble. And then I realized I didn't think he was, was that great at some point. Reagan, you know, the Reagan revolution was kind of hard thing for me to accept. I had a hard time accepting some of his thoughts and ideas. He made a big impression and was quite popular among Republicans and among Americans. And looking back now, I have the feeling that what is going on in the republican party, he would not be happy with in many ways. Who else? George.

[35:13] LISA GOLDSTEIN: About George W.

[35:18] RONALD CORRIO: I'm a big fan of George W. But looking back and comparing him to all the others that I've mentioned, I I feel he's done. He did some good things also. Yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, then came Donald Trump, which. Yeah.

[35:35] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yeah. Ron, I'm curious if you could elaborate a little bit. When you said it was hard for you to accept some of the Reagan revolution, are there particular policies or issues, social issues, economic issues that stand out to you from that erade?

[35:58] RONALD CORRIO: Well, there was harshers. You know, there was the welfare queens. You know, he bashed people on welfare and made that a pretty big political thing. God, I don't know what else. Well, he wanted. I believe it was Reagan who thought government was too big and should be made smaller. And, you know, this is a large country. It makes it unwieldy. You know, we're 50 states. We have 50 state governments, and we have one government in Washington, and it takes a big government to run this country. I guess those are the things that concerned me about the Reagan administration.

[36:49] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Lisa, do you have feelings? Do you have similar feelings, sort of, that come to mind about any democratic administrations moments where you felt like, you know, there were policies or issues being put forth that you found hard to swallow. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's, I would just say in general, I don't go back that far. But I think now with immigration, it's too liberal because we don't even have our own issues resolved. So I think it's hard to allow such an influx of immigrants into this company. And if they're not following in the immigration rules, like I have, for instance, a friend who is married to a man, they're gay, and he's italian, from Italy. He followed all the immigration rules and got in legally, and he's a staunch Republican because he feels it's not fair. And I agree with him that all these people are coming in illegally. So I do think we need more controls around immigration because, you know, as more and more people come in, it just floods our schools. And this is happening in my, even in my school district where we have more and more students coming in and we can't even handle the amounts that are coming in. So I think we just need to keep an eye on that. And that's one thing, you know, and I think, look, I agree with some government assistance, but I don't believe that people should just rely on government assistance, and that's how they're going to live their whole lives without even trying to get a job or make it on their own. So I think those are a few things.

[38:58] RONALD CORRIO: Interesting, good points you make, Lisa. On the immigration issue, one of the problems, I believe, is that our government, our national government refuses, just will not do anything to address the issue in a way that would make it more fair and less of a problem. It is a problem. I agree with you, and I don't know exactly what the answer is, but it seems to me that our politicians in Washington are afraid to address the issue and take steps toward it. And that brings me to another thing that I think the reflex on immigration has a lot to do with white supremacy and Christianity. I think there are people in this country that want this to be a white, christian country, and there are some politicians that want it to be that way. As a matter of fact, I was surprised to read someone recently stated that having no religion in a government is a wrong problem, that there should be religion in the government. So that concerns me. I don't know how we're going to deal with that. I think a lot of the differences among people today in the United States revolve around this issue, how much whites should dominate and how much Christianity should be dominant in terms of our country.

[40:59] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Hmm. I mean, maybe, but I think, again, that you're just hearing that small extremist voice, and that's not really the majority of the country. If you look, if you actually did survey where people actually answer, because most people don't answer surveys, you would probably find that's not the majority, just the majority that's being heard. And, but that's, but I agree with you. That's scary. If we look at history, look, everybody followed Hitler. Was he the majority? It didn't really matter. It still happened. The Holocaust.

[41:39] RONALD CORRIO: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I hope you're right. I hope you're right. It's not as many people as I fear. Yeah.

[41:52] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Right. But it could be the people in influence. And that goes back to the problem.

[41:58] RONALD CORRIO: So, Lisa, what do you think we can do as individuals, as citizens? I mean, it's kind of hard, but do you have any ideas? What can we do?

[42:07] LISA GOLDSTEIN: I mean, again, I love this mission of Story Corp. I feel there's not enough safe space for dialogue where people aren't afraid that they're going to be canceled. And obviously, you know, that's a problem. And I personally feel that way that speaking out, having an opinion right now on a political topic, even on the left, has like a huge voice. And if you're not following exactly what they say, I'm sorry you're on the left. But if I, if I stereotype right and put, you said some things about far right, if you look at far left, if you don't agree with an opinion of theirs as well, they will cancel you. And it's, we've seen it happen. So I think that's the problem. There's not honestly enough safe space for dialogue. If story Corp or some organization would even go broader and realize that a lot of us have common goals and a lot of us believe in America, and that's why we are here. And a lot of us have traveled and gone to other countries, myself included, and still think this is the best place that is stumbling. And that's why I wanted to come here today to speak as well.

[43:32] RONALD CORRIO: On the question of voting issues. Trump and many Republicans, many followers of Trump and many Republicans, many people, I guess you say, in the United States believe that the election, the last presidential election was fraudulent and that Biden won unfairly. Do you have any views on that?

[43:54] LISA GOLDSTEIN: I don't think it was fraudulent, no. I mean, they, they recounted. Let's move on.

[44:04] RONALD CORRIO: Yeah.

[44:04] LISA GOLDSTEIN: And the fact that so much time is being wasted on it is ridiculous. And money.

[44:11] RONALD CORRIO: You know, I'm going to make some statements and see what you think about them. But I think the Republican Party, first of all, it has to be very disciplined because the Republicans, in a way, are in a minority in some regards in this country. And the Republican Party, they're very disciplined. Democrats are nothing.

[44:41] LISA GOLDSTEIN: And can you back up, what does that mean? Very disciplined and Democrats or not?

[44:47] RONALD CORRIO: Well, Republicans in Congress or in the government, they pretty much all go the.

[44:53] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Same way along party line voting. Is that what you're talking about? Okay.

[44:57] RONALD CORRIO: Whereas Democrats, it's a big tent group of people, a lot of differences, difference opinions. And so, you know, you get differences there. So I feel that Republicans feel they are losing ground with the populace and are fighting fervently to hold their own. And I think part of that has led some Republicans to make voting more difficult, to make the way people vote more difficult. I feel that while there's probably some vote problems, they're minimal. And I think that our voting system, I like to see voting made easier, people being able to vote and everyone being able to. But, yeah.

[46:02] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yeah, I mean, I did a mail in ballot myself, so I think that's just fine. And I requested one twice, and they didn't give it to me, only by accident. So I think it worked good.

[46:16] RONALD CORRIO: Yeah.

[46:17] LISA GOLDSTEIN: So we only have five minutes left. I think we kind of covered this, but let's just throw it out there and need to take a couple minutes. Are there things that give you hope for the future?

[46:33] RONALD CORRIO: Well, hopes for the future. I hope our democracy survives in this country. I don't know how that.

[46:40] LISA GOLDSTEIN: But how would it not, like, I don't understand what that statement means. Like a whole uproar, like, just from the legal perspective, like, what does that mean, if you can summarize that?

[46:53] RONALD CORRIO: Well, if. If Donald Trump becomes president in the next election, I think he and his followers will propose and support a program that is more autocratic than democratic.

[47:12] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Are you talking about, like a rev. Like a revolt? I don't know. Like, that's really scary. Like something like. Like a civil war. Like, I don't know. That's not hopeful at all. That's scary. But I guess, you know, do you really think that's gonna happen?

[47:29] RONALD CORRIO: Yeah. Well, that worries me. So what would happen if Trump becomes president? And I don't know. To me, it's a pretty scary prospect. And if he doesn't, I guess another question is what Republican would step forward and would there be more of a movement away from Trumpism with another republican president?

[48:02] LISA GOLDSTEIN: I don't know how do you feel about Rubio?

[48:08] RONALD CORRIO: Not a big fan of Rubio. Goddess. He's, I just saw a piece this morning that he has an opponent in the upcoming election, but his opponent really has little chance. So he must have a pretty solid hold on his, on his position in Florida. Yeah. I'm trying to think what's. Republicans, I'm trying to find some Republicans that I have more, more respect for and more hope for. Well, I mentioned Liz Cheney, but, you know, she's not a Republican. In favor with many Republicans these days. Yeah. There's a republican governor in Maryland, Hogan, who has presidential aspirations, and I find him more appealing.

[49:03] LISA GOLDSTEIN: What don't you like about Rubio, just out of curiosity?

[49:08] RONALD CORRIO: Well, I don't know enough about his policies to tell you, but I guess one thing, and I'll have to confess that I'm probably making a generalization here, so I'm sorry, but I have, I'm not happy with the Cubans who fled Cuban, came to the United States and came to Florida and have become a political vote bloc. And I kind of see them more as very conservative, very much the wealthy Cubans that fled Cuba. So I guess I have that against Rubio. I can't think of anything specific. I'm sorry. How do you feel about Rubio, by the way?

[49:59] LISA GOLDSTEIN: I like him. He's pro business. I think he's somewhat reasonable. I just, you know, I might be moving to Florida eventually. My daughter goes to school there. So that's it. So I think we're wrapping up. Oh. Is there anything you learned about me today that surprised you?

[50:35] RONALD CORRIO: I can't come up with that thing immediately. It's surprised. Well, you're a Republican. You have a lot of republican values, but you're much broader. There's some issues that you and I agree on, whereas I'm a Democrat. Pretty, pretty left wing Democrat. But I found some things that we both share, which I. That was great.

[51:02] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yeah. And we didn't even get into a lot of stuff. But I agree, and I think that's the whole point of this, that I'm always willing to listen. I have friends and I think most, well, maybe most people aren't, but that's what I think we really need to change where people need to just listen and hear and respect. You don't have to agree to respect. So I think that's what the country really needs, more respect of everybody.

[51:33] RONALD CORRIO: Yeah. I have one neighbor that he's staunch Republican, as I am a Democrat. But we have interesting conversations. They're civil. It's such a good feeling to be able to do that. It really is.

[51:50] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yes.

[51:51] RONALD CORRIO: You feel human. You feel the people.

[51:55] LISA GOLDSTEIN: And that's the problem. Like people have literally over these elections, it's broken up. People walk out of conversations or just have so much anger.

[52:06] RONALD CORRIO: Exactly. And as we've all read and heard, it, split families.

[52:12] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Yeah.

[52:13] RONALD CORRIO: In my family, there's been somewhat of a split, but it's not, not caused any problems. The mother of my ex wife, mother of my children, and she has a different, she's very republican and much different political opinion than I do. And my children, for the most part, are more in agreement with my side issue. But we love each other and respect each other.

[52:52] LISA GOLDSTEIN: Right. And that's what it's about, the love and respect. I think we're done. Thank you, Julia.