Rose J and Dhani S

[00:01] DHANI SPINOLA: Thanks.

[00:09] ROSE J: Hi, my name is Dhani Spinola. I'm 45 years old. Today is Wednesday, December 16, 2020. Calling in from Norwalk, Connecticut, with my very, very good friend Rose, who's a longtime family friend.

[00:28] DHANI SPINOLA: And I'm Rose J. I am 50 years old. Today is Wednesday, December 16, 2020. I'm involved in this conversation from Katy, Texas. My friend, my best, best bud, Dhani We're going to have our conversation.

[00:47] ROSE J: Thanks, Rose. So since I'm the one who invited you to the conversation, I did prepare some questions. First, I'm wondering if you could just give us. Give me, like, the overview of kind of like the your life timeline, you know, your story. Where were you born? Where did you grow up? Go to school? You know, take us through up to present day.

[01:14] DHANI SPINOLA: Okay. So my birthday is in July, July 9, 1970. So I'm giving you that beginning of the beginning. I was born in Columbus, Georgia, and it was always just me and my mom. And of course, the grandmother is a part of that combination of support, but she was in Louisiana. So an only child. So I don't have a lot of stories about nothing. I don't have a lot of stories about the time that we did anything because we is me. So I'm the only child. I went to a private school from first to eighth grade in Columbus, and then I went to high school in a public high school in Columbus. And I think partly because I didn't want to have to have a uniform on. It wasn't like it was, I say, really? But I think my mom and my grandmother, you know, wanted to give me the opportunity to be fair about having an option of, well, did I want to continue on in a private school setting? And I think that was nice, you know, to include me in that plan because you never think about that piece when you're young, that you have a say of where you want to be in the next stage in your life. So went to high school, in the public school because I wanted to have that experience of what is that public lifestyle. So I didn't do a whole lot when I was in my private school. We had choir. So I continued with choir in high school. And I do not sing like Beyonce or anything.

[02:34] ROSE J: Rose you're a singer. Come on now.

[02:38] DHANI SPINOLA: It was in a past life. You could have. You should have got me earlier. Those days are over. No contract.

[02:43] ROSE J: We could have been doing. Every rose has its thorn all this time.

[02:48] DHANI SPINOLA: I know I can hum. I can hum. So I did that. And then. And then I think because I was having a Moment of I want to do something I've never done. I was in my senior year. Somehow there was a recruitment for doing flag girl, so I was in the band flagging. Okay, So. I know, right? I know. Can you imagine?

[03:10] ROSE J: Photos. I want photos now.

[03:13] DHANI SPINOLA: I've told too much. So I was in the band for, like, just a year. And so because of that, I had to be enrolled in a band class. So again, don't forget, I have no skills because I didn't do anything musically. I'm not talented like you. So I ended up doing xylophones. So these are things you find out when you ask.

[03:35] ROSE J: Awesome. Yes. I'm so glad we're doing this. Okay, keep going, keep going, keep going.

[03:39] DHANI SPINOLA: It's really. It's me coming all the way out. So. So we did this on the phones, and me and another senior friend of mine were in it. And so that's it. So I think I gave myself that experience that I think I needed because I wanted to be able to say I did a little bit more than just sing in the choir. I mean, that's. That's okay. But it wasn't anything different then. I went to school in Statesboro, Georgia, for college, and I think I want it to be far enough to be independent. So it was like four hours away from Columbus. And, you know, now I majored in criminal justice with a minor in psychology. And then I can. Was able to stay a little bit longer and get my master's in counseling education. It wasn't anything that planned. It just happened to be that way. So that was luck on my side. So I stayed again at school for two years. And then I wasn't sure I was in residence life during that whole time of being a student leader and that kind of thing, and supervising residents in a residence hall and giving them an opportunity to learn other things and just engage in a positive environment. So I did that for a lot of time. And so I didn't know how I was going to get out of Georgia because I felt like I needed to get out. Like I needed to see what is out there in the world. So luckily I was in an opportunity to go to Connecticut and work. So I never lived anywhere else besides Georgia and visiting my grandmother, which is like in the, you know, a week or two for Christmas. So that's not really living, but it's. I've been overnight, so moved to Connecticut. Loved it. And then after I left there, because I felt like my time was up, I had a bad experience, like within my last year, and I thought, I'm getting out of here. I just don't feel like being bothered with this person. I can't save myself.

[05:22] ROSE J: Yeah.

[05:23] DHANI SPINOLA: From dealing with this person. The thing I can do is just leave. So I wasn't really ready to go down south. I think maybe some people may think, well, when you leave from where you came, you might just want to go back to that location. And that wasn't the case. I liked Connecticut so much, I wanted to stick around. And so I was able to. So someone hooked me up with an opportunity to work in Rhode Island.

[05:42] ROSE J: Yeah.

[05:42] DHANI SPINOLA: Which is where you come in.

[05:44] ROSE J: Right.

[05:44] DHANI SPINOLA: Because I met your sister there.

[05:46] ROSE J: Yeah.

[05:47] DHANI SPINOLA: And so then we've been, like, ever since. So I worked in rhode island for three years. Still was residence life.

[05:54] ROSE J: Yeah.

[05:55] DHANI SPINOLA: Now I'm 30. Okay. So I'm tired of playing house because people don't want to follow the rules. And there's no living at 30 with a bunch of kids who don't want to follow the rules.

[06:06] ROSE J: They're just babies.

[06:07] DHANI SPINOLA: And I got to supervise the babies. And it's like, this is something I got to get out of. So I got myself out of that circumstance because I purposely wanted to make sure I wasn't going to get stuck doing another residence life position. And as much as I thought maybe I would regret that one day, thinking, oh, maybe I didn't need to leave, because sometimes people do that. They discovered that maybe res life is their life. And I was like, I don't think I can make that my life, but I want to go see what else is there. So for about a year, because, again, I did not want to come down south. I don't think I was fighting it. I just didn't know what I would do back home. So then I had a chance to stay with a friend of mine and her partner, and I stayed there, like, within a year's time. And I interviewed since I knew you and you had an opportunity for me to join with working with some children in the youth counseling center, a residential program. I opted to do that. And so I worked there with you for a couple of years. And then when my grandmother wasn't doing too well and I felt like I wasn't going to go save the day, but I felt like I wanted to be supportive to her because I knew I had a team of people I was working with, with those young people in the residence program, but my grandmother didn't have anybody. So that's when I left. And then that was my purpose for going back down to the south is because I wanted to be with my grandmother, so I moved to Louisiana. Was her not really a caretaker initially, so I was just there to be supportive because I always envisioned little mishaps could happen, you know, Like, I think people had phone cords, and so she would have a phone cord. So I'm like, all I need is my grandmother to flip out, literally on the floor because her slipper didn't hook up right on her foot. So I'm like, I gotta be there for my grandma. So I went down to be with her. So that's how I got back down south. And then in the meantime, I have relocated to another Southern place in Texas with my partner. And I've been here for several years since. Let's see, since 2010. So my grandmother passed in 2009, Christmas Eve. Not like I make it more of a story, but it's just, you know, the reality. So I gave myself within a year's time to leave from where I was working, because I think as much as I knew when that life changed for me, I would be ready to go and be with my partner, I also knew I wasn't really physically ready to go. It wasn't like, January 1st. I was like, I'm out, Louisiana. I'm gone. I took my time, made sure I kind of had it together mentally. Of, what does this look like? I still had a job, you know, I had to be fair to that relationship I had and that commitment I had that I'm here, you know? And so for the year, I worked there, and then I came here in 2010. Why are you smirking? Why? Why are you smirking?

[08:54] ROSE J: I just. I went a minute to your. I went a minute to the color guard. I just, like. To the.

[08:59] DHANI SPINOLA: To the.

[09:00] ROSE J: I just. In my head, for a quick minute, I was there, and then I came back.

[09:05] DHANI SPINOLA: Okay, let me tell you a couple of things that happened with the color guard that you won't even believe. I had to have on makeup. At least one.

[09:12] ROSE J: Right.

[09:13] DHANI SPINOLA: There were skirts involved, so I had to wear that at least four times.

[09:16] ROSE J: I know I'm picturing it. I know that's where I went. I know I couldn't help it. It just happened in my head.

[09:21] DHANI SPINOLA: I know. And some boots, so. Yeah, I know.

[09:24] ROSE J: Exactly. At least tell me the colors. What were the colors?

[09:30] DHANI SPINOLA: Gold, red. Gold, red and white.

[09:34] ROSE J: Okay. All right. Okay.

[09:36] DHANI SPINOLA: Are we over it? Have we passed on to that?

[09:38] ROSE J: I mean, it's only gotten worse.

[09:41] DHANI SPINOLA: I believe it. And I think the high school. I think the high school picture might be black and white, so You've missed out in color, but if you let me order you one, I can try.

[09:51] ROSE J: To find whatever you have. I want it all now.

[09:54] DHANI SPINOLA: And my hair is big.

[09:56] ROSE J: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I want it all. I want to see everything.

[10:00] DHANI SPINOLA: It's not.

[10:00] ROSE J: I didn't know your grandma. I didn't know your grandma passed on Christmas Eve.

[10:04] DHANI SPINOLA: Yeah. But, you know, the thing about that is I thought of that as a beautiful transition for her, that she was in the holidays in heaven, holiday heaven. So, you know, it wasn't like. It was terrible.

[10:15] ROSE J: It's like a new birth. It's like a rebirth on the birth.

[10:20] DHANI SPINOLA: Exactly. And I also thought, because I think I'm gonna get sad, because I always do, that she'd already prepared me for the long good, you know, that we were here for such a short time anyway. And so while you're here, you know, you know that's going to happen. That's the last thing you do is die. So I'm like, I was okay with that. And I think the other transition in that was best because I had been with her for six years, so it wasn't like I finally went down there. And now she's at her worst.

[10:47] ROSE J: Right.

[10:48] DHANI SPINOLA: Gradually.

[10:49] ROSE J: Yeah, I know.

[10:52] DHANI SPINOLA: Yeah. And, you know, oddly enough, and I guess it's not odd, but I always prayed as a kid that I wanted to make sure that I was there with my grandmother. So in some really mature kind of way, I knew when I was about six or so that I wanted to be with her in terms of. I guess because I understood she was always by herself, you know, in terms of being an independent woman. Wasn't married when I came along. So, you know, it's one of those circumstances where here she is, a strong woman doing her own thing. But I also recognized somewhere that she needed support, you know? And so the beauty of that whole thing is that she passed when my mother and I were there with her, literally in the same room. So I thought, you know, prayers take a long time to be answered, but they get answered, you know? So I always thought, lord, don't let me be out there running errands. And then she leaves me, right? So a couple of times, I'll tell my grandma, we can always do it. I said, don't go nowhere. And she's right. I believe it. You better talk to him. I'll be back. Don't go nowhere. She's like. And I'm like, all right. And so before I knew it, I had gone to run an errand. Literally had run an errand. And I was like grandma. And so there was no, no life there. But I was. I was okay. Like I said, I was a. Okay. There's nothing really sad about it except, you know, that was it. And so.

[12:12] ROSE J: Yeah.

[12:12] DHANI SPINOLA: Yeah. So. Yeah.

[12:15] ROSE J: What did you call her?

[12:17] DHANI SPINOLA: Grandma. Nice Grandma. And when I write it, that's always G.M.A. i don't know.

[12:23] ROSE J: Yeah, No, I could picture that. I could picture that with your handwriting. Okay. I'm going to skip around a little if that's okay.

[12:31] DHANI SPINOLA: We're not going back to high school, are we? We're not going back to high school.

[12:34] ROSE J: No. I want to skip ahead. I want to ask you about when did you. Because you mentioned now you're living with your partner. So I want to fast forward to knowing about when you were gay. Was it gradual? Was it sudden? Like, can you talk about. Are you comfortable talking about your coming out? Can you talk about finding love? Anything in between? I'd love to hear anything about all that.

[13:06] DHANI SPINOLA: You're really in my business, but I knew it.

[13:08] ROSE J: Yeah, I know, I know.

[13:10] DHANI SPINOLA: Okay.

[13:12] ROSE J: I'm very interested to hear.

[13:13] DHANI SPINOLA: I know. I know. Next on Ellen and Dhani

[13:17] ROSE J: That's right.

[13:19] DHANI SPINOLA: I get it. I get it. Okay. So here's what I'm going to say to you about the whole thing. I think a lot of it was my not paying attention to any of this lifestyle because when you're an only child and you're just navigating the world by yourself anyway, you kind of think you're by yourself anyway. And so I didn't know how I was going to identify in any regard because I stuck to myself. I keep to myself. Anything out of here, out of myself is always going to be at a friend's status. So relationships didn't seem realistic of, oh, yeah, I know what's going to happen with me because I just saw each stage of when I met people that I liked. And even in high school, you know, there's some guys I may have gone out with maybe for an event, like it was a special event, but it wasn't like I was looking in that for any information of what is my life going to look like in the future of dating. It was just, I was right. Of passaging, you know, this wasn't like that movie prom. I wasn't going through no exploration at a young age.

[14:19] ROSE J: So.

[14:19] DHANI SPINOLA: So it was just me just living my life and not letting that be a big deal. Right. Because I guess I always wonder too, when people. And it wasn't like my grandmother or my mom ever made me feel Like, I had to be connected to somebody. It wasn't like I hit a certain age and they were saying, they're like, right. But I will tell you, my grandmother did say to me, when I told her that same thing, of, well, I never did feel like I was getting pressure from you all to get involved. And she's like, you weren't listening. And I'm like, damn. I'm like, I didn't even know you were saying it. Because she never dropped a hint. It didn't seem like she was pushing, I think, because she was so observant and so respectful that it wasn't like she was pointing at me, like, poking, like, hey, you've been talking about these people in your school, and what's that relationship like? I mean, we keep it so generic. So I didn't pay attention to that. And so I think there was a time in high school that I envisioned, okay, now I like this guy at this school, do I like him enough to hold his hand? And in my mind, that was a test of, okay, do I really like him? Because I don't. I was never a PDA person. Public display of affection, because I just never grew into that. And so I think over the years, I still envisioned the test of, can I claim that person as my person? And so if it was a guy named Richard or Doug or something, I'm like, I don't really feel comfortable saying that. And so I think over time, when things evolved, that's when I paid attention and I remembered. I remember being in Connecticut and kind of consciously being aware of, well, why am I in the circle of the gay and lesbian group? What is that? Why is that an interest in me? Why do I feel like I can just sit here and I haven't claimed. I hadn't claimed the status. And nobody in that group asked me or anything. They just let me be. And I think that's the other piece that nobody made me feel like I had to identify. But I will tell you, when I finally did decide this is what was going on with me.

[16:19] ROSE J: Yeah.

[16:20] DHANI SPINOLA: I had a friend of mine say, did you think you weren't? And I was like, damn. I think that's interesting because I think I was so much myself that I didn't realize I was giving any vibes, right? I didn't realize it. And so. And so then when I. So anyway, so this is going to take, like, all kinds of places. So then I thought, well, this is by association. This must be my group of people. But I don't know how that Is I haven't and been in any relationships to know it. This is like being 25 years old, I don't know nothing yet because I haven't even. That relationships didn't interest me enough because I think too many times people make you feel like you have to have somebody to be a whole person, right? So I felt like I've been home by myself. What are you talking about? And so I think because I've been whole by myself, I think I've been whole. Okay. And then you realize I ain't really okay. So I'm like, maybe I do want a relationship, but how am I going to get it? I don't know. I don't. Do I need it? Maybe. And so, yeah, so I remember I call it my call, my coming out tour, because when I left Connecticut the second time, which is when I worked with you, and that's when I was going through my little driving down to go back to Georgia to get to Louisiana. And you were among the first two people, because I think it was your sister who I told before.

[17:45] ROSE J: Okay.

[17:46] DHANI SPINOLA: Like, months before. And I remember having this anxiety about telling you, and it wasn't you as much as it was me, right. Because it was a therapeutic, okay, I'm owning it situation. And it was like, wow. And I remember we were sitting outside on the porch and you were looking at me and I was looking at you, and you were looking at me, and I was looking at you, and I said, all right, I'm gonna tell you something in a second, but hold on. And you're like, okay, Rose whatever you need. And I said. And I said what? I said. I think I just said that. Poe

[18:24] ROSE J: Oh, my goodness. Come here, Poe

[18:26] DHANI SPINOLA: He's killing it.

[18:28] ROSE J: I know, I know. Okay, say it.

[18:30] DHANI SPINOLA: He's killing it.

[18:32] ROSE J: I know.

[18:32] DHANI SPINOLA: Thanks, Poe

[18:33] ROSE J: Poe was her dog seriously just cutting it.

[18:36] DHANI SPINOLA: I know, but that's okay. But the thing about it is, that's when I felt like I didn't think it was important that you had to know it.

[18:43] ROSE J: Yes.

[18:43] DHANI SPINOLA: I felt like it was another piece to really be honest of who I am. So there's no guessing for sure. Which is why I think when I had this coming out tour, that that's what I did. For every step of places where I stayed overnight, I had that conversation. And so do you remember what you said?

[19:01] ROSE J: You were. You were about to say it right when Poe barked.

[19:05] DHANI SPINOLA: We'll never know. No, I think I said, I have a little girlfriend and I'm gay. And so. But the thing about it is, I think the honesty of that is. But can you claim somebody to be your girlfriend if they're, like, online? You know, if they're.

[19:23] ROSE J: Yeah.

[19:24] DHANI SPINOLA: Not in the same place? I mean, you claim it, but it's a title. And it's like, it's not realistic because there was no way to really say that that's really what it was. I mean, maybe it's a. It's a better pen pal, but wasn't really that type of relationship. Maybe not really. So. So I think over the time of acknowledging this is true, I almost. I think it's important that I tell certain people.

[19:49] ROSE J: Right.

[19:49] DHANI SPINOLA: But I don't want it to be something that is the only thing that's important to people. And I think that's the other piece of. I'm gonna tell you something stupid funny, but I have to get it together first.

[19:59] ROSE J: Okay?

[19:59] DHANI SPINOLA: But I think some of the part. The process is. Oh, I'm talking seriously. I think some of that process is, where do I feel comfortable saying it? Where it doesn't look like I'm just saying it just because I feel like I just need to put it out there? Or am I saying it because I really want that person who's in my friendship circle or my family circle to understand me, just to not have these guesses? Because there's too many times people have said, you know, I wondered about you, and I try to figure, what the hell are you trying to figure out?

[20:38] ROSE J: Like, yeah, why is that even mean?

[20:41] DHANI SPINOLA: What does it mean? And why is it important? And so when I told my friend in Georgia, I wrote her a letter. And I remembered thinking that she probably looked like somebody's parent looking up into the window in dismay. And like, I can't believe this bullshit. I didn't found out my friend is gay because I remember her telling me, she's like, rose, I had to walk to the window and had. And then I had to think again. I had to read that letter. And then she told me, do you know how many people I defended for you? And I was like, damn, y'all been talking about me. Like, who cares about what I'm doing? But I thought it was very interesting because I didn't even know people were curious. And you wonder, well, why the curious? Like, why?

[21:30] ROSE J: I know, but, yeah, what does it matter?

[21:33] DHANI SPINOLA: And it's like, damn, I'm the topic of conversation. And I wasn't even that damn popular. I don't even think 20 people knew me, you know? And so, yeah, but I remember one day I was talking to a friend of mine who I met in Connecticut. And I said, and this is the stupid part. And I said, man, I said, I'm Jay. He said, I know. I said, but why didn't you tell me? And he said, girl, I want you to figure that out for yourself. And I'm like, all right, I'll go with that. That's fair. I mean, who's supposed to know besides me? So I'm like, great. Great. I'm the last to know. I'm the last to know. Isn't that crazy? It's perfect.

[22:29] ROSE J: It's perfect.

[22:30] DHANI SPINOLA: It was perfect. So I'm like, that's it. And I think each person's response to me was exactly the way I think our relationship is. The fact that you let me sit and tell it at my own time. It's almost like I always used to say about being on the diving board. You know, when you get on the diving board, you may not go off immediately, but you kind of hesitate, and then you decide, I need that second. And then when that second's there, it's either that second or that window's closed.

[22:55] ROSE J: Yeah.

[22:55] DHANI SPINOLA: And so I feel like when everyone that I told, they were supportive and. Or they were like, you know, I kind of thought, but I wasn't sure, but it wasn't important. But it was just a. Another thing of understanding who I am, you know?

[23:10] ROSE J: Yeah. Yeah.

[23:11] DHANI SPINOLA: So I thought that was great. But then I had another person who told me when she asked me to be her God, her son's godmother. And I felt like I wanted to be honest, to tell her, because I didn't know her really well, actually. She was my beautician. And so she said, hey, I'm gonna ask you something. She said, I want you to be my son's godmother. And I said, okay, well, let me think about it, because I understand that's a serious rel. You know, serious role. And then I said to him, her, you know, but I want to tell you something. And she's like, I already know. I'm like, what do you think you know, though? Like, what do you mean? And so she was telling me. And then another time, we have the same conversation. But then she said reassuringly, I don't care. And I think that's the funniest thing. That as much as I don't want the judgment about that lifestyle, I've almost judged other people to say, I don't think they can handle it, or how they're going to come across with understanding what I've said might change the Relationship. So it's kind of odd that I don't want that. But I'm also that I'm not sure they can handle this, you know, because I don't know what that looks like to them. I don't know if that relationship does change somewhere or they finally come around and they say, but you're still rosy to me. I mean, that doesn't matter. And so you don't know that until you go ahead and you say, hey, mister, you and I both like women. You know what I mean? Like, oh, and they kind of whatever. But I think when we had the conversation again, she said, girl, I knew you had to be because that man you hanging out with is so fine. And I was like, I said, yeah, you're right, he did out me because he's too. He was a very good looking man I used to hang out with. And I was like, yeah, you're right, you're right. I said. And so I told him one day, I said, you know, friend, you, you out at me because my friend said, you're too good looking for me not to be involved with. So. Yeah, but it's all fun times. It's whatever. Yeah.

[25:03] ROSE J: Good stuff, good stuff. I remember it. I remember us going into the kitchen at Mike's dad's place.

[25:10] DHANI SPINOLA: Yep.

[25:12] ROSE J: And then that's where you said it. And then I think, I think we were like, all right, we don't really care, but as long as you're. As long as you're happy or something.

[25:26] DHANI SPINOLA: That's exactly what you said. You said, you know, I talked it over with. I think another time though, you may have said to me, oh, we were probably on the phone when I got to my next destination when you said, you know, I told Mike and he said, we don't care as long as you. As long as you're in love with somebody or you love somebody.

[25:44] ROSE J: Right.

[25:44] DHANI SPINOLA: It's kind of how it came out that as long as you're happy, whatever, you know. So again, it goes back to, you all are always so supportive and so there was never a doubt, but it had to come out of my soul because then how can I always say to you, I'm living in Texas with somebody and I never tell you how that body goes. Like, that's just. I'm always so discreet anyway. But it's also not fair in a relationship for me to act like my roommate, you know what I mean? Like.

[26:13] ROSE J: Right. My housemate.

[26:15] DHANI SPINOLA: Yep. And so it doesn't then, it doesn't solidify the relationship. Then I think it's kind of a mockery of our relationship if I'm not that honest, you know?

[26:22] ROSE J: Right. Well, it goes back to the ownership. Like you said, am I willing to own this person, Take ownership of. Am I willing to hold their hand?

[26:30] DHANI SPINOLA: Yeah, exactly.

[26:33] ROSE J: All right, good stuff. Good stuff. Okay, let's just go to the. Let's just. Let's just.

[26:40] DHANI SPINOLA: I cannot believe you're pinpointing where you want to go when you had it all.

[26:44] ROSE J: I know. I told you we would use up the time, though.

[26:50] DHANI SPINOLA: You wanted. But I will tell you. But my grandma was more very supportive. Oh, yeah?

[26:56] ROSE J: Yeah. When did you tell her? You want to talk about that?

[27:00] DHANI SPINOLA: Okay, let's talk about it.

[27:01] ROSE J: Did you tell your mom and grandma?

[27:03] DHANI SPINOLA: Okay, I didn't tell them together. I told my mom probably. I think it was part of my coming out tour. I might have told her then because I felt like that was when I probably had that conversation. But her attitude was always, okay, I know now, what do you want to talk about? And I'm like, I appreciate it. And so I don't think. I don't think. I thought it was gonna be dramatic and we're gonna be throwing bases around and stuff like that, right? But it was real nice. She was like, all right. So then it was like, why is it a big deal, right? It shouldn't be. But my grandmother, when I told her, I. I decided because I was so upset at the fact that I never told my grandmother in any regard or anything of anything, because she'd always known of guys that I've known, but she never inquired. She never looked like she was hesitating to, you know, are curious about. Can I ask about this guy? Can you tell me more?

[27:56] ROSE J: Right.

[27:57] DHANI SPINOLA: Yeah. Okay. He answered your phone that day? Well, he was at the phone. He just happened to be, you know, so it wasn't anything like that. But I remember talking to. And I think it might have been the first day of spring. And I think I remember it that way because in my mind, I was thinking, there's our rebirth there, you know, not only is the new season of life, but now I have, like, I'm as old as I am, and I'm finally able to tell her, hey, Grandma. And so she said. So I sat on the side of the bed and. And my partner had already given flowers to her before because she would have been sick in the hospital and everything like that. So when the flowers came, it was just, hey, a friend of mine, you know? And so I was telling her very nicely, okay, look, I'm gonna tell you something, I said. And I remember telling her, I think you're going to be upset, but I can't worry about that.

[28:46] ROSE J: Right?

[28:46] DHANI SPINOLA: But I have a girlfriend. And she says, oh, okay. Well, I knew that before you got here, like, being is what what I said. And she said, oh, I knew that before you moved here. You didn't think it was going to be that easy, did you? And I said, no, I didn't. Because I always thought that might. That relationship might be the hardest one of if anything changed, what in the world am I gonna do? Like, if she were in that attitude of, what did I do to deserve this? You know, at a certain point, family begins to wonder all these things. Did I not do enough? Did I not give you this? Did I not. You didn't want for anything. What else could I have done? We didn't even have that conversation, you know? And I said, yeah, it was easier than I thought. Hell, I'm thinking I'm going against a steel wall. And she's like, I'm just a little piece of paper. I'll take it, you know? And so I thought all this time I talked to your mom about it, and your mom was like, you gotta tell her before she leaves this world. And I'm like, I know, I know. And this is way before my mom, before she got sick. But I think the reality is your mom was encouraging me not to have this as a regret of things that I should have told my grandmother, because that is important, you know? You know? You know, it's like she'll never ask me, but it's like, as a courtesy of. And I think my grandmother always told me, too, that my relationships with her and also with my mom and her and my mom have. We all have different relationships. And so. And she always used to tell me, I don't have to know what you and your mama talk about. And I ain't telling you what me and your mama talk about.

[30:17] ROSE J: Right?

[30:18] DHANI SPINOLA: So I understood that even if I told my mom, my mom wouldn't have found a way to tell her because it wasn't her story to tell.

[30:25] ROSE J: Right.

[30:25] DHANI SPINOLA: And I don't know if my grandmother had a conversation with my mom, but it seems like it was such a. This is how we were connecting and solidifying our relationship that I worry because I didn't want anything to be different, but it wasn't a big deal. Yeah, but you don't know that sometimes you waste time not knowing.

[30:42] ROSE J: It's like the one relationship that you don't want to put at risk.

[30:45] DHANI SPINOLA: Exactly, exactly.

[30:50] ROSE J: Still, it takes a lot of courage.

[30:53] DHANI SPINOLA: Sometimes I don't think so, but I. Then I have to agree with you. It does. Yeah, it does.

[31:02] ROSE J: I love you. I'm proud of you.

[31:04] DHANI SPINOLA: Hey, thanks, babe. Proud of you too.

[31:06] ROSE J: We have 10 minutes. What do we do? Okay, I'll just read them out and you choose something. How about that?

[31:11] DHANI SPINOLA: Oh, what, the rapid. The rapid fire.

[31:14] ROSE J: Yeah. I wanted to ask about like your present day family, your love, your pets, your home, daily life, hobbies, frustrations. You can do that if you want. I wanted to ask you about your experience. Experience of being black in America. I feel like that could be a whole nother thing, but if you have anything you want to share, I'll hear it. I'll hear anything you got. We talked about your grandma being an elder in your life, but if there's anything to add and if there's anything that you want to hit on that we didn't like, pre discuss, I'm happy to do that too. So that's what I. Those are my thoughts on it. You can go anywhere you want, man.

[31:57] DHANI SPINOLA: Okay. So my present life is real good, real simple. No hardships, no drama. We're down a free zone here. So, yeah, everything's easy peasy. Almost like the way I think you and your husband are in terms of just very supportive, you know, there ain't no. Oh my God, that's Rose on the phone. I don't talk to her, you know. Right, yeah. Don't answer her calls. And so I don't really have those issues. And it's like, my God, is it, is it real? This can be this easy, like, right? You don't like drama? I don't like drama.

[32:29] ROSE J: That's great.

[32:30] DHANI SPINOLA: And it's like, damn, this is what I've been. Because I guess in some regard too, there's always a worry that you're in a healthy relationship, you know, and so thankfully I'm not in that situation. And I'll tell you, my grandmother and I, you know, I always thought that we both prayed for her in terms of. My grandmother would always say that she's praying for somebody for me who will be supportive to me and be sort of supported to me and my mom. And also I think I prayed for her because I always thought I was always a nice person to other people. And I. And so there's somebody that we used to work with and I remember he used to say, well, Rose I hope you find somebody who's going to treat you the same way that you're Treating your family, you know, because you're helping other people, that maybe somebody else can do the same for you. And I thought. I didn't think about it in that regard, but I think I was looking at it as I want somebody who's not going to be drama field. I don't want to be in a situation where I'm not feeling comfortable. And so that's it. And so I really believe the fact that my mom. Sorry, my mom, my grandmother and my partner met. That was like the passing of the baton. I really believe the moment that they met, my grandmother already had a plan of. All right, God, I got a plan. I see it. I see it rolling. I'm okay. Because I think sometimes family might linger on because maybe they worry about somebody, that they're leaving.

[33:47] ROSE J: They want you to have companionship.

[33:50] DHANI SPINOLA: Right. And I think, because she wouldn't have seen that. There was no way she could have seen that, you know, because I didn't give it to her. When I was in high school, in college, there was nobody to say I connected with. I moved there, and it was just me and her. So there was no way for her to know I was going to be okay, you know, with somebody. And so I think that was one of those things. And so I always think, all right, well, since she's at peace with this and that's like a seal of approval, all right, then I know I got the right person. You know what I mean? So that was just an. Just the confidence of, okay. My grandmother's like, she's okay with everything. Yeah, perfect. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So that's how that was with that. We had one pet. We used to have a couple. I had a rabbit, and then we had another dog that she had, but then they both died in the same year. My rabbit died in January, and then her dog that she'd had for like 10 years died in December. You know, it's like, oh, my God, one year is hard. And so, you know, you don't think it's going to be that bad until it happens and you realize you weren't as strong as you wish you were. Yeah. Yeah. What did he say?

[35:03] ROSE J: It hurts so bad when they. When your pets go. You know, it just hurts like a raw, open wound.

[35:10] DHANI SPINOLA: And you think you're ready for as much of it as you can be, but you're really not. And there's probably. Of life is in jeopardy. You don't want that for them.

[35:18] ROSE J: I know. It's heart wrenching.

[35:20] DHANI SPINOLA: It's terrible. Yeah. Let's See, being black in America, you know, sadly enough, it's harder than it should be. You know what I mean? Like, why is this happening? That, you know, in my own little world, I think I'm safe, but there's other people in the world that will make it unsafe. And so there's people that, you know. I think these last four years gave you a chance to see the people that you thought you knew are not the people that you want to be involved with. And you just gotta cut them off. You kind. I feel like you need to cut them off. But at the same time, we already knew we were all different anyway. But these political days made it very obvious of how wide that band was of, I'm taking you out. I can't even adjust.

[36:08] ROSE J: Yeah, for your own safety and health. For your own, like, spirit.

[36:13] DHANI SPINOLA: What the heck? And so you don't realize when people say things like, do you think this is going? Like, I don't know. Someone asked a question about how crazy this was, and I don't know if he meant the pandemic or the mass, but I answered it very generically on the mask because I felt like I don't know where he wants to go with this. Right. But I get a sense of. He doesn't see that this is probably a real thing and that this mask is a real thing. So if we're talking about that level, then I don't know what his lifestyle or what his relationship is with me now, because even that looks like, how do I look to you as a black person? Like what? Yeah, what does that look like? How does that translate? And so it's sad when, you know, you tell people. I always tell people, oh, I'm not going anywhere. I'm not traveling to go anywhere for the holidays. I'm just gonna stay home and be quiet and be at peace instead of everybody's way. Well, sometimes the people come to your damn house and shoot you, too. Yeah, you can't eat ice cream or bring your Subway home. And so what, I have to pray for that? You know what I mean? Like, now I gotta pray for don't shoot me. And so. And my prayers used to look like, let me have a natural death. Now I don't even know how to include everything. I just say, lord, just watch me. And. And because you don't know how these things are gonna evolve, you know, I mean, it's hard that way. And then there's people cut you off. And you wish you could say something like, that's disrespectful. But you don't. I don't have a place to feel like I can say to someone you're being rude when it's obvious because maybe consciously they are so themselves majority or whatever that they don't care that you've cut me in line or you didn't even do something that was respectful to another human being. And so you kind of realize and are reminded, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I got the skin tone. I see. Okay, now I have to be quiet because I don't want to get into any kind of riff raff in the parking lot because you crazy.

[38:13] ROSE J: Right?

[38:13] DHANI SPINOLA: It's like defensive. You know what this is like? I would say defensive driving. I have got to protect me because you're not watching where you're going. And so it's just sad and it makes me cry if I stop and really think about the bizarreness of it all. People have fought for these different rights that we say we have, but we still go back to the black and white issue. Like it's still that black and white, white and Hispanic, white and somebody else. Black and Hispanic and black and somebody else. We can't even get these two right.

[38:44] ROSE J: Yeah.

[38:46] DHANI SPINOLA: It's saying it's hard. It's just hard. Yeah. That's all I got. That's all I got. But life is good with you. Yeah. I'm glad to know you, Dhani

[38:58] ROSE J: Me too, Rose I feel the same. I'm always here to listen.

[39:04] DHANI SPINOLA: I know. No doubt.

[39:08] ROSE J: Why don't we wrap it? I'm so happy that we did this. Are you good to wrap it, Rose You got anything else you want to say?

[39:16] DHANI SPINOLA: We'll reserve you next time, Ben. We'll reserve you.

[39:19] ROSE J: That's right.

[39:19] DHANI SPINOLA: For round two. We're asking for you, buddy. Answer our calls.

[39:25] ROSE J: We'll get Ben on the sequel.

[39:28] DHANI SPINOLA: People are going to want to know us.

[39:32] ROSE J: Rose thanks for doing this.

[39:36] DHANI SPINOLA: Thanks for being so interested. You know what I mean? Like pushing me to say, come on, talk to me. Yeah, yeah, just talk to me.

[39:45] ROSE J: I'm so glad we did it. Your story and your voice are important to me.

[39:50] DHANI SPINOLA: Thank you.

[39:51] ROSE J: All right. And wrap take one.