Roxanne Murdock and Carolyn DeFord
DescriptionCarolyn DeFord (47) speaks with friend and colleague, Roxanne Murdock (36) about how she got started in anti-trafficking work, working with MMIW (Missing & Murdered Indigenous Women), the strong connection to domestic violence, & the need coordinated community effort in trafficking prevention.
Subject Log / Time Code
- Roxanne Murdock
- Carolyn DeFord
Recording LocationVirtual Recording
Partnership TypeFee for Service
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00:00 Hustler Hill, Roxanne Murdock, good day. My name is Roxanne Murdock. My name or my age is 36 and I'm recording from Tacoma Washington on the Puyallup. Tribe reservation. Today is June 11th, 2021 and I will be speaking to Carolyn Deford today and our relationship is we are colleagues. We both work for the community domestic violence. Advocacy program for the Puyallup tribe and we are both still tribal members.
00:37 Do I do the same thing with Carolyn Deford the coma?
00:48 Astral chain, good day. My name is Carolyn Deford. I currently reside in the Tacoma Washington area. I am 47 years old and today's date is June 11th, 2021. I will be speaking to my partner co-worker and friend. Roxanne Murdock. We work for the Puyallup. Tribe Community domestic violence. Advocacy program where I am the trafficking project coordinator and mmiw advocate.
01:21 Thank you Carolyn. So before we jump straight into our work and what we're doing in our community, let's get a little bit of background on where you're from and how
01:35 Your journey LED you to this field?
01:41 Am I am I am from the the Coast Salish area from Tacoma to Olympia. Nisqually Puyallup territory. When I was very young, my mom flooded mestic violence relationship, and we moved to Eastern Oregon and that's kind of where my mom settled and made her life. And that's where I grew up. When I was 21. I moved back to back North to Washington, and have spent the last 28 years and the Olympia Lacey to Tacoma area.
02:17 When I was,
02:21 28 years old, 27 years old. My mom was reported missing and she is currently a long-term missing person. She's been gone for 22 years now and that history that experience. And
02:38 Everything that is involved with our missing and murdered indigenous. Women really steered me toward me down this path. As I was looking more into advocating with other families are as I started advocating, is it organically happened? I was looking more at and seeing some of the causes of why are our folks are becoming victims of hurt and harm and one of those that really, as I started learning more about the definition of trafficking, what? It looks like what it is. I started seeing it more and more in mmiw families that I was supporting and recognizing it more in my community and was really just compelled to start looking at the things that we can do to prevent further, missing and murdered. And so, DVR advocacy human trafficking mental, health homelessness, all of those intersections that are all connected are really something that are on.
03:38 French me to reduce those those numbers.
03:45 So, before working for a program.
03:50 My understanding is, you were.
03:53 In the mmiw work before realizing you were, can you explain?
04:02 What connection did you experience? What did you experience to connect the mmiw with domestic violence traffic here to what pushed you into?
04:18 What you're doing today?
04:21 I have been advocating for families and not knowing it since
04:26 Probably 2004-2005 in 2007. I was doing a Google Search and came across the missing and murdered indigenous women Canada. And I was reading that and really for the first time seeing and read stories that mirrored mine married, my mom and was the first time that I felt like somebody understood like some other, somebody understand. And so, I followed, you know, everything that are Canadian relatives were doing up from that point on in 2017. The United States passed our legislation and on our Hannah Harris for a national day of mourning on May 5th, and that, that by chance, I could get another Google search because I would Google pretty regularly to see what kind of support services were out there for families of missing. To see what databases my mom was in.
05:26 What was kind of going on with, with the missing persons community and I came across the resolution was getting ready to pass. And so we presented it to our tribal community. In our Tribal Council, to acknowledge May 5th as a day of awareness, and
05:42 We received overwhelming support and year after year. We have received a lot of community, support and Tribal, Council backing in, in this healing and awareness, and hopefully prevention of of our people. But that was really the first time that I was ever able to honor or tell my mom story in a public forum with her people. And it was really healing for me, but it's through my telling of my story, other people started coming to me with theirs.
06:17 And I realized that there are so many people in our community that have been carrying this this grief and the trauma and the burden and the loneliness that comes from, nobody really understanding how how it weighs on you and I started doing a little bit more, local. Advocacy from that point. I created a Facebook group and a business called missing and murdered Native Americans where we just Advocate and provide support services to families of missing and help raise awareness and connect them to. I'm resources that might be in their area and help with poster distribution.
07:00 While I was getting ready to, to start our May 5th, awareness events, I was researching with some of the more prominent groups in the community, like, MMI wushan lost and missing an Indian country where those Founders, those women really mentored me and took me under their wing and advocated for me as a family member, which nobody is ever done.
07:27 And while I was kind of learning about that, I'm I'm also advocating for families and seeing this connection to trafficking and as I'm starting to to ask more questions, or recognize red flags and are missing in our missing folks and in their stories, I'm starting to see connections that I am wondering, if are related to trafficking in 2017. I started working for the community domestic violence advocacy program and our beautiful wonderful director sent me to a conference in Washington DC where I have the opportunity to listen to Keno speaker, Jerry Moomaw from Innovations HTC who really filled me with aha moments. And a lot of things where I needed to know more. I attended a a breakout session with her later and ask some questions about the connection between missing and murdered and was trafficking a factor and how
08:27 Lake of the factor and the truth was that there were no no data. There's no data and no numbers but those trafficking survivors know and the family members know and a lot of The Advocates know it's just never really been tracked. So I started learning more and really studying trafficking prevention, risk factors indicators policies. Howard appears in our community and how prevalent it is in our, in our national focus on me and murdered indigenous people. And that really led me to seeing a need and trafficking prevention as a major, as a major offer a major way to
09:21 Work on prevention of missing and murdered. After this conference. Is that what triggered you to start looking into? Our tribal codes looking for our trafficking codes. And when you did that, what did you find a? Remember? I like ran over across the hall to your office and he has children and you're like, I know, that's the problem and I just was appalled that it's illegal. Washington has some of the most stringent and Progressive laws for trafficking survivors and anti-trafficking in the country and was one of the first states to really
10:06 Take it seriously. And here, we are on a knife on the I-5 Corridor, on the trafficking, circuit on a track and, and right at the intersection of two major tracts where I-90 and I-5 meet in Seattle and you know where we're at a hub. And we have casinos and, you know, I just how can we not have any laws to protect our people here. And I started having some conversations with leadership with other program directors and asking how they seen trafficking disclosures in their work. And everybody had seen it. Everybody knew that it was a problem, but we were still using language that these were prostitutes, not prostituted and
10:56 We presented a request to Puyallup Tribal Council in 2018 to honor and recognize January as.
11:10 National human trafficking, awareness month and our Tribal Council obliged, again, overwhelming amount of support. And in that movement, then and how to bring anti-trafficking slipped out Community, but they went above and beyond and pasta.
11:32 A directive to have our code riders in our legal draft Law & Order codes to for the first time, make him trafficking illegal on the Puyallup reservation.
11:44 And what amazes me is you pushed and help with these codes.
11:53 And you were a senior admin assistant at the time.
12:00 Go ahead a year a year after that you we hosted the first anti Human trafficking in Indian country and you played a huge role in posting that putting it together and opening it up with the mmiw awareness day, May 5th.
12:25 Starting with that as the senior admin assistant and doing that work on your down time.
12:37 And trafficking being so new in Indian Country. If I mean it it's not new, but the weariness being new in Indian Country. We went from no trafficking grants. And now we have three, we were able to create the anti-human trafficking project coordinator position with our first traffic and Grant witch.
13:07 You were able to fill for us. So,
13:13 With you being in that position.
13:17 Where do you see us going?
13:21 As a tribe in as a community with the trafficking.
13:26 Awareness and work that we plan on doing.
13:30 Man, it all happened so fast, you know, it really snow bald, which was a huge reminder, an indicator that the work needs to be done in our community needs it, and it's hungry for it. I I started having people come up and and say, thank you for that. My daughter was traffic or thank you for that. My sister was trafficked or some people telling me their stories and I,
14:02 As an administrative assistant, sometimes getting invited to go sit and in rooms with giants. Literally just giants. Like, I don't belong at this school.
14:13 And writing my name down, Carolyn Deford Administrative, Assistant with Founders and executive directors, and doctors. And I felt like I didn't, I didn't say I didn't say at the table, but
14:29 There's a huge need for Survivor LED movement, Survivor LED. Advocacy Survivor LED programs, and I couldn't have had the courage to go into some of those spaces without the support and encouragement of our team. There were days when I said I catch, you know, can you do it, you know, you know, does anybody else want to go do this? And
14:58 Without their, you know, without our cdpap, family, am up, Lifting me in and doing so much of the behind-the-scenes work. You know, that the Hands-On work that that make this program possible. At all. It wouldn't be here. It's not me. It's, it's group. It's Community as everybody's voices together and everybody's passion to want to do something different, but the
15:24 We have the opportunity to make this any, you know, as much as we can as big of a project as hopefully sustainable and being able to provide services to anybody and everybody who was at risk and who needs and, as well as support the families who are on that Journey with their with their Survivor.
15:53 What's the saying of the part that I forgot about?
16:01 I'll come back. I'll remind did you want to share with us some of the MDT programs that we work with, who helped?
16:15 Plan and create the human trafficking in Indian Country conference, which by the way, we were trying to host annually, but because of the pandemic, we had to cancel it last year. That was a huge success. You know, the first time we celebrated the first time we acknowledged the national game board as for missing and murdered indigenous women with a community event was 2018. And we with very short, notice hosted a community dinner with some speakers and on very short notice like a week and a half, two weeks. We had over 90 people attend which was overwhelming for the first time that we've done something like this. So the following year 2019, we're raising awareness around traffic and we've got laws. Now Republic council is on board. Now, all of our cdpap staff has been trained.
17:15 Through through in-house trainings, as well as conference trainings, and focused, inform care trainings and Innovations. HTC was really Hands-On with that with our training and with the direction and what kind of training would be most beneficial to our communities. And they were also working with Children of the river Child Advocacy Center. And
17:40 Laura Weaver Swift, the director for our program director for that program proposed. That idea that what do you think about a a conference? Like about bringing this to the whole West unit wire our area and I was like, thank God, you know, that. I'm not the only one thinking this because I feel like I get these grandiose thoughts and then everybody else gets stuck along the ride. They get stuck along the ride with me and I I try to control that sometimes and so we looped in Innovation, takes you see again in the wraparound program and culture.
18:22 Joshua's children services and surrounding tribes. Yes. Yes. And National Partners National National Center for missing and exploited children attended. And yeah, we had, we had overwhelming response to conference attendees. I believe it was 369, people registered and came and got educated for that.
18:50 And we, we got great feedback and we're really hoping to do 2020 and Jesse's were like in the planning phases covid. Shut everything down cold. So hopefully we'll be able to pick up back up again and and, you know, later in 2021 or early 2022.
19:09 So, was that.
19:13 Right before paddle to Puyallup.
19:16 Right before we hosted the for the Puyallup tribe hosted. The paddles to Puyallup in.
19:25 2019 and you who did you contact and what did you set up during that time?
19:37 I was on the canoe, family, canoe Journey planning committee, and we met bi-weekly and I really had this idea in the back of my mind, that this would be a beautiful opportunity to bring this in. A canoe, journey is so healing and beautiful. And gosh, there's no words for for that. The power of of people in prayer that go into that protocol in that canoe Journey, but I thought it would be really amazing if we could somehow
20:13 Acknowledge that was families that were paddling, without their loved ones and acknowledge. The loved ones who have paddled, and who should be paddling and should be on Journey now, but I've been taken from us and that it would be the first time for many families to be able to have ceremony in honor of their loved one. When somebody goes missing, we might get a candlelight vigil, but you don't get those rituals, those ceremonies that help you process and help you. Help you feel the love of community that give you strength to keep going and and family families of the missing doll. Don't often get that and especially within their community of a non-sexual Regional large-scale.
21:03 I asked the canoe family committee, what they thought of doing a mmip booth and honoring our missing and murdered. And they kind of gave me free rein to go with it. Make presentation. And so I came back to to work and talk to you and and our team about setting up a booth during canoe journey and has a few activities while one a day, you know, what, one activity a day planned and
21:38 We again we we received an overwhelming response to that. Like people would come up to our booth and instantly see what it was about and just stand there. And look at us for a couple minutes. Taking it in and ask for a hug or say thank you or write their loved ones named down. Or we'd created the paddle blanket. It's a button blanket with a canoe on the front and we had over three hundred Cedar paddles carved and we invited everybody to sit down and dedicated paddle and memory of their loved one. And it would be hung on the blanket later as a living as a living Memorial and travel with us when we make a raise awareness. People would come and sit down and tell me their stories and
22:25 I felt like this isn't work. Like I felt like it wasn't fair to other people that I got to do that, you know, that that I got to hug them and and here and carry some of that weight with them for a minute. But it also gave us the opportunity to call all those family down in the protocol floor and read the names of their loved ones and honor them with a gift and prayer. In a moment of silence where it had never been done before. And I think that the response in the feedback that the community got from that really helped Propel, our trafficking movement and DV prevention, and all of that a little bit more forward into the Forefront.
23:11 I thought it was beautiful, and it still talked about to this day.
23:17 Give a blanket gets invited to go places. Are we still adding to the blanket or about a room? We got some titles that we have to attach but it's the blanket has been invited to participate in the Dia de los Muertos at the Tacoma Art Museum. Why it's? It's been shown in a fashion show. Honoring mmiw. It's been highlighted.
23:50 It's been highlighted at other events across the across the Pacific Northwest several times. It, it was presented at powwow a couple times and walk with folks. I'm with family survivors during Grand entry. And so it's just a beautiful, a beautiful piece, but it carries the stories of a DVD of domestic violence of residential school of all that. There's a paddle, dedicated to all the children that didn't come home trafficking survivors and, you know, homeless and people are struggling with mental help. It it honors, the live experience is of all of those folks that come from all these backgrounds.
24:37 So, since trafficking is so new and our community and far program.
24:45 Where do you see our program taking this with training? What programs do you see participating in our types of training? And what tribal?
25:03 Buildings. Or
25:07 Entities, what what tribal entities would. Would you combine into this traffic and training that we're putting together? The spiritual program where, you know, we are able to dedicate safe houses. Long-term safe houses were survivors, can truly heal and get on their feet without having to think about where they're going to extend that. They only have two weeks so that they only have three weeks or 6 weeks, low-barrier housing and, and shelter for them. And I think, you know, having trained Advocates are are trained staff, who are interacting with Advocates across, the train staff, who are interacting with survivors across the board, who are aware of the drama, and the effects of trauma and trafficking the life, you know, and the risk of of going out again, you know, there there's always that relapse, not just
26:07 For that that the way that they may have experienced substance use disorder about the relapse of going back into the life because
26:17 Because it's this, got this power on many levels, but I'd love to see us be able to, to dedicate a space to that healing to to those shirts, stories to provide those services that are needed and, and aren't available anywhere in the country and coming back to that. That's what I was going to say, is our our Law & Order codes. We were the one of the first tribes in the nation to established comprehensive Law & Order. Coates criminalizing human trafficking, one of the first and
26:56 You know, we're still we're still working on that policy and procedure and response, but again, world will still be breaking ground on on something. And so there's always going to be room for Change and growth in that as we learn more and do more. But all of the programs that I mean, no matter what you do, no matter what your role is, in community or social services, or Human Services. You have a intersection with human trafficking. It's not hidden in plain sight for no reason. Whether you're a Community member, a school teacher, a bus driver, a social worker maintenance. Everybody has an intersection there to see something and say something, but also, an obligation and responsibility to be educated on what that looks like and share that education with your children and your family, so that they can continue, you know, that they can be safe, that they can protect themselves from
27:56 Harm and perpetrators that are out there. Hunting are our people, you know, when our community is particularly vulnerable, not only to be traffic, you know, for sex or labor trafficking. But to be traffic for their assets and resources as Puyallup tribal members and
28:16 We know that, you know, our stories tell that all of our families know that, but it's a whole nother form of exploitation that our young people are experiencing that is really hard to prepare them for. But I think all of our programs culture huge for healing and one of the most powerful tools that we have in in recovery from trauma of any kind or substance. Use disorder is culture and
28:49 You know, our language program, being able to connect us to, you know, to our ancestors in the in the past into our descendants in the future and in the present and and really there's things about our language that that can't be defined with English words and you know are our children services that pipeline. You do foster care to foster care to prison Pipeline and how that is such a key player and, and has histories and exploitation rooted and exploitation of indigenous people in indigenous children, but our Housing Programs, you know, how we're keeping people safe and now is everybody is trained to recognize red flags as they happen. And I'm do we know what to do when we recognize them. So I think everybody should be trained, you know, everybody should be aware. Not only for, you know, if you don't, if you're not active in community, but for
29:49 Your children and your loved ones sake, you should know what it is and how to identify it and what to do.
30:00 One thing would be training with high risk indicators and
30:07 I would think that would be starting with training the trainers and then
30:14 Hopefully, getting the casino the casino on board on identifying high risk factors and who to contact for, for immediate assistance before you started working for our program.
30:33 I wasn't really.
30:36 Aware of what human trafficking was or the signs of victims and I worked in the club tribes emergency women shelter for domestic violence. So we would get clients into the shelter who now no ice knowing the high risk indicators. I look back and I can identify that they were victims of human trafficking or at least they had the indicators, but I didn't know how to work with them. They, they've had major trust issues with us and they were a Flight Risk. So, where when I say that, they would say they needed to go to town for something, be dropped off somewhere, and then they would meet us at a certain time to go back to the shelter and then they wouldn't show up.
31:33 So I didn't link trafficking to those clients that we had in our DV shelter. So when you came into work for our program and you started listing off all these high indicators and we started go to the workshops together at conferences that started raising red flags in my mind for past clients. And I started seeing the link between domestic violence and trafficking victims. So you brought that to light in myself and I see that you're bringing it to light in our tribe and our community and our nation on top of that.
32:19 Yeah, and thank you for doing that as well. And I never even heard of mmiw. I mean, when I met you, that it was just starting to be talked about. And yet you had a co-worker who was at a family survivor since she was a child, you know. Yeah, we rock and understanding the definition of that. I realize I have had relatives and friends as well.
32:50 So, I mean, you bringing the light to our community and individual tribal members and our nation. That's amazing. That's amazing work. And you were
33:03 A senior admin assistant. When I would introduce myself, I would say senior Administrative Assistant with a heavy focus on other tasks. I feel really blessed to be able to do what I do. It doesn't feel like work. I mean to work part does you know, I'm not a numbers person. I'm a I'm a emotions based person and compassion this person. So the data compiling of the data is not my not my forte, but knowing that we're making a difference that are preventing our youth. From this horrible experience, being able to walk with people on their Journey has been a powerful healer for me.
33:52 And I'm kind of filled my fire, you know, knowing that you're helping knowing that you're making a difference, but the the way that it's happened, organically like it really.
34:05 I don't feel like I've done anything for this. It's just the work of our ancestors and creator that open these doors and clear the path. And I just go down at my new doors open and I do what needs to be done there. I do what I can think that needs to be done. And if it weren't for people who've crossed my path who've educated me. Who mentored me, who lifted me up when I doubted myself.
34:39 I wouldn't, I wouldn't I wouldn't be here, you know, in the
34:46 I think that.
34:49 I'm not surprised that trafficking is Pez anti-trafficking within our community has gotten the response that it has because it was something that we all seen and new. But we didn't know, you don't know what you don't know and we didn't we were educated to Define it and we were educated to recognize it or how to respond to it. And once you start learning about those issues, once you start learning about the definition and the indicators and the experiences of those people, a lot of people were relating and coming forward and saying I didn't realize this, but I I did this, you know, and that they had that they were exploited as children and because they were vulnerable because they were troubled youth and putting their stories together and and realizing
35:44 Things that they blame themselves for when they were you young or we're trafficking they were exploited. And, and, and groomed for that. And I think the more we learn about DD, the more we learn about trafficking, the more our community is recognizing those things that a huge thing. That I think we, you know, maybe an Indian Country in general deal with is, you know, the couch hopping and the poverty and being having to rely on other people for your survival, whether that's Transportation food, shelter, close childcare, you know, anyting, whatever your vulnerability is, whatever it is. You need that, that Predator can provide for you and whether that's a bed, a couch, you know, I think our folks are our missing that definition of commercial sex, being the exchange of of a sex act in exchange for anything of value.
36:44 And is it? Because I need my car fixed tonight, you know, our tomorrow so that I can go to work tomorrow so that I can continue to make money and get on my feet and get out or, you know, the young kids that run away. You are or vulnerable youth. Maybe not run away but vulnerable youth, even who are on?
37:02 Couch hopping in Owen and don't have a, a rooted place of their own and that they're so vulnerable to survival sex. And I think we overlooked that survival sex is is a form of trafficking. And I think once we start bringing these definitions out more, our community will start recognizing and and seeing more and we'll be able to intervene and provide healing Services more.
37:34 Thank you, Carolyn. Appreciate you so much. And I am so happy to be part of your journey and I'm part of this program with you and and just moving forward. Thank you. It's it's a it's a crazy honor and I I bumped into Billy Barnes today who was our executive director and just reminded me of why you know, why why do we do this? You know, and and for me that I wouldn't be here if it weren't for missing and murdered and not wanting any other family to have to feel that our experience that
38:17 And seeing that connection between him and my W2 Mystic violence and and missing and murdered that is preventable. This is preventable. We, it doesn't have to be this way. We can change it. Even if we can only change it for our family, our community are our town, what, whatever our circle is its contagious. Those things grow. And this is a huge example of how how contagious the good medicine. The good work is, and how much we need it.
38:51 It, it's just, it's an
38:57 It, it wouldn't be here. If it weren't for those survivors that paved the way, you know, 20 years ago, the survivors now who are as, you know, Survivor leaders, using their voice and and driving legislation and policy and educating Community groups, and Outreach groups and and tribal programs in L about how they can make a difference.
39:24 It's like, what is that belittle coming out of the ashes?
39:36 Ask him again. If you don't feel comfortable to Caroline that they are R&R in in Vista.
39:57 Maybe even in your community alone and may be generally if you
40:05 I can list a few and then Roxanne, you probably pick up some of that she seemed too, but I'm branding and tattoos.
40:13 Couch hopping not having a stable, you no stable place to to stay not having ID in. Oh, not not being able to hold and keep their ID.
40:25 Motels frequently frequently staying in different motels along along the way that we're on a track where on a on a track within our community that runs right across right to our reservation. And so having frequent stays at those motels, maybe even being 86th from some of them dressed up the dress and a tire being inappropriate for the the season or the the event. Gosh, you know.
41:00 Checking into a motel rooms with an older man or with men that they don't appear to know, being dismissive and I'm stressing. Distrusting of anybody really but not making eye contact and being timid or being overly strong.
41:23 What else? Gosh?
41:27 Yes, not a good feeling intro. Love their own money and wounds of varying stages of healing. You know, we've seen it. We we probably seen and experienced every single one of them, you know.
41:47 We had a client who came to us as a sexual assault victim, rather than trafficking or domestic violence. And after her sharing her story. It turned out. She was sleeping in the back of a restaurant that she was working at. And she wasn't on like a payroll or anything. She was working for that that room or bed or whatever that face looked like. So there is labor trafficking that we see. We both also seen.
42:28 Clients check in the motel for safety. But then as we leave there, checking out in and collecting the money substance abuse is a big one. And as I mentioned earlier, lack of trust, so they want to know who, you know, in our, in our work, at the tribe. They want to know who you're related to at the tribe and their their language is pretty foul. So they're coming. They're, they're coming for help, but they may seem intimidating to us.
43:09 Yeah, that overly strong, you know, and
43:18 I lost my train of thought there was another one in there that I was like. Oh, yeah, you're not but it's gone.
43:25 Only if you feel comfortable.
43:39 Which would you choose?
43:44 If there's anyone that you want in your life.
43:54 My mother's name is Liana. Look there Indy. She went missing October 25th, 1999 from LaGrande, Oregon. She was strong and powerful and Fierce and a survivor.
44:10 And without her teachings and her strength and her inspiring me everyday. I wouldn't I wouldn't be here. But also without the you know, what that our ancestors and Creator who have paved the way without those teachings and values of our ancestors that that guide us and live in us to be good people to be good relative to one another. I don't think I would have the strength to to keep going or
44:43 Or even have the the heart condition to be able to do it. But there's so many mentors and beautiful people that have come across my path. My mentors at children services. When I started at children services, Joe Lapointe and Laura, blue horsewhipped. And then when I came to see j.p. To work with Billy Barnes and I met, I met Gary Moomaw from Innovations HTC, who is been a huge Mentor in my trafficking education and
45:17 Those mentors, those people who take you under their wing and and share their life of knowledge with you are priceless priceless.
45:29 And then I have a quote that I wanted to share and this is is a quote by Billy Barnes as well. Who is just the most beautiful, bright light of Love compiled into a body that that you can meet and part of healing is remembering who you are, and you are strong, powerful native woman who can do anything.
45:55 And sometimes I read that to myself, like you can do this, you know, you can do this, but she has that energy that she believes in everybody with that conviction and
46:08 I read that to myself, sometimes like you got, you got this.