Rudy Montoya and Juana Montoya-Jamison

[00:03] RUDY MONTOYA: Good afternoon. My name is Rudy Montoya. My age is 88 years old. Today is February 8, 2023, and we are in the city of El Paso, Texas. And the name of my interviewer is Juana Montoya Jameson. Okay. We are cousins, second cousins.

[00:24] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: We are Juana de

[00:26] RUDY MONTOYA: When do you think? Gustavo Good day for you.

[00:29] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for agreeing to this. I really appreciate this. As you know, I'm 72 years old. Today is February 8. We're in El Paso, Texas, and my interview partner is our cousin, Rudy Montoya. Okay, he's. Again, he's our cousin. He was first cousin to our father, Luis Montoya. I want to thank you for the story that you sent to me about my great grandparents. It's a source of great pride that I am part of the Messilleros with two different families, the Montoyas and the albillars, as well. That group who left Mesilla to go to Asuncion, which was a group of 96 families, they left Mesilla, New Mexico, to settle in Asuncion, Chihuahua, Mexico. Okay. I think it's a very beautiful story of resilience, hard work, a very hard work ethic, and their dedication to civic duty. By saying that, I think of my grandfather Juan, who was one of the first mayors or presidente de ascension in the thirties, and he married my grandmother, Juana Alvillar Montoya, who was one of the other 96 families who left Mesilla to go to ascension. Asuncion must have been a very beautiful place to grow up in. Do you have any recollections of that? Rudy, what are your memories of growing up in Asuncion?

[02:00] RUDY MONTOYA: Well, I was born in Asuncion. I remember growing up until I was 17 years old. At the age of 17, I was scouted to play baseball, professional baseball, and I did in Ciudad Juarez and then in El Paso. So I grew up. I went back. I didn't stay in El Paso or Ciudad Juarez. I still went back to my hometown. And at the age of 18, when I played in El Paso, I wanted to go to the majors. I wanted to go to a different level, higher level. But they didn't promote me. Maybe I was not qualified to play AAA baseball. So I decided not to sign another year, and I went to Los Angeles, and I moved to Los Angeles, and I just returned to New Mexico last year, 2022, moved to Las Cruces, and that's where my wife and I are reciting now.

[03:07] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: It is so wonderful to have you back. It really is, because I would only get to see you once a year. And as a child, I remember how special our father's cousins were to him. You and Beto and Memo and Teresa and you guys would come at least once a year. And not only was he very, very proud, but we all got very excited to see him as happy as he would get to see you guys once a year. So that's why I say I feel so privileged that at this age we get to reconnect and just share stories like this. Thank you.

[03:39] RUDY MONTOYA: Yes, it is a pleasure, believe me.

[03:42] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Do you have any recollections of our grandfather Juan?

[03:45] RUDY MONTOYA: Oh, yes, I do. Grandfather Juan, to me was Uncle Juan was like my second father. We used to come over to Palomas, which is north of my hometown, and visit with him. It was like. Like coming home. And one of my brothers spent some time living with them because he was going to school in Columbus. He was learning English, memo, and it was great. Ti Ju Juan and his wife, second wife, Tia chole. They were very generous and very sweet. They look at us as part of the family. Yes. And I think that my mom and my dad reciprocated with Luis and Jesus and Juanito and Marta when they went to Asuncion, my hometown. It was a family.

[04:40] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Yes, I remember your parents. Not as well, but the memories I have are very fond ones of visiting them at home. I was a little girl, and my dad would travel back and forth between Palomas and as ancion, and he would take me with him often. And I would spend time with Tia Maria or Tia Jose and Tia Tonita. And then we would always go to visit Tia Pifanio and Tia Elena and Tia Tana.

[05:05] RUDY MONTOYA: And Tana, of course, you couldn't minister her.

[05:07] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: No, no, we couldn't. They were always so kind and generous to Tana as well. That's what I loved about our family, was that we all took care of each other so well. And especially the women who were single. They were very well taken care of by the. By abuelita, Juan and my uncles, Jesus and Jose and my father. So, yes, that was really cool. What about memories that you have of our father, especially if you have any memories of him as a child when you all were growing up?

[05:37] RUDY MONTOYA: Well, I remember the first time that I traveled in the United States. Long travel. I was eight years old. My oldest brother was living in California, and he was going to go into the service. His wife was expecting a baby. So my mother and I decided, actually, my father and my mother decided that my mother was going to go there to be with her because my brother was going to go into the army. So we arrived in Palomas. My uncle John was ready there. He says, okay, we are going to take you to the immigration office, the mexican immigration office, for you to get a passport so you can be allowed into the United States and get a permit. I said, okay. So my mom and I went there and got not a passport, but a form. So we went to the immigration department in the US in Columbus, presented there, and they issue a permit for six months, and they told us, you can leave any moment, any day that you want. So we came back. We returned to Palomas and got ready the next day. Jose, my cousin, he took us to the station in the early evening to catch the train to Los Angeles. I remember that vividly because I had never been on the train, much less seen many different people speaking different languages. It was quite an experience to me. We got in the train and we left, and this is an experience that I'll never forget. This was the first time that I saw a black man, an african american man, close to me. He was sitting there right next to me, next to us. As you know, the train in the past had chairs that you can face each other, and he was sitting right next to, next to us. And I was very curious. And I remember, oh, maybe in an hour or two, after taking on the train, he got up and went to the store and bought some cookies, fig cookies. And he opened it and he gave me one. And I was. It was so good, so generous, and my mom thanked him. So we kept going. Kept going. The next morning, my mom got up and went to the store and. Or the restaurant, whatever it was, and got a cup of coffee and a cup of milk for me and offer some of the food that she brought to the men there, and we shared. It was such an experience. That was one of the things that I'll never forget, you know, association. I don't have any questions about the color or ethnicity or anything. I didn't know it. I don't know it. So I remember he went to Phoenix, and in Phoenix he got out, and he said goodbye to us. And that experience I'll never forget. So we were in Los Angeles for three months. The child arrived, and my, unbeknownst to us, my brother had received a 30 day extension for departure because of the arrival of a child. So we ended up staying three months in Los Angeles. It was a great experience. And we came back. We arrived in Columbus, and Tio Ju Ju Juan was there waiting for us, and then he arranged for us to be transported to hometown Asuncion. Those are the memories that I have of him. He was such a generous person, lovable man. He was wonderful, wonderful.

[09:45] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: I agree. Those are the memories that I share of him as well. And again, going back to the pride that I feel in their settlement in Asencion, and that he was one of the first presidents, he also had. He had a very strong faith, and he was very instrumental in the building of the church in Palomas. But previous to that, when he was in Asencion, he felt strongly about education. And in a book that I have titled from de la mesilla a la cencion, it talks about Abuelita Juan being one of the strong drives to open up a school and hire a teacher, you know? So again, a lot of pride.

[10:31] RUDY MONTOYA: I remember the name of the school.

[10:34] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: How about that?

[10:35] RUDY MONTOYA: Yeah. The name of the school was Pedro de Gante. It still is. I think that it still has the name. So that's very interesting to talk about our relatives. There's so much history.

[10:49] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: I agree, and that's why I say it's such a source of pride for me. And again, I thank you, because I want to pass this on to my children and my grandchildren. I now have four grandchildren, and it's like they need to know this. I want them to feel the pride that I feel, you know, the security that it gives me to know that we had not only such civic minded parents and grandparents, but their faith was so strong, you know, and they showed that with, and by their generosity to others. So thank you again for agreeing to this. I have to go back to our father. Do you have recollections of him as a child?

[11:31] RUDY MONTOYA: Well, I have a lot of them. They're not at the moment. I don't recall them, but I remember and Chole tia chole, me. And also, anytime that we arrived there, the first thing that she will say, have you eaten yet? I have some food for you. I can make something for you.

[11:47] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Yes.

[11:48] RUDY MONTOYA: And also Marta. Marta was there in Juanito, you know, rest in peace. He was very. They were all. The family was very generous. Your dad used to be driver, so he was not around too much because he was driving a truck. He was out sometimes in another place.

[12:07] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Well, my understanding is that he drove that truck because he would pick up merchandise in Guzman, which was a train station, and he would bring the merchandise to all the merchants in Palomas, our grandfather being one of them, Pedro Armandares being another. I believe he also brought merchandise to Matilda and Arnulfo el Villar.

[12:31] RUDY MONTOYA: Yes.

[12:32] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: So that was his main occupation. And he loved that. He loved that truck. I remember at least one or two new trucks and the excitement, you know, that we all got out of, you know, a new truck. I remember that truck bringing us to deming as well, because our grandfather Juan also really, really wanted all of us to move to the United States because I remember part of my childhood in Asencion and the other part in Palomas. But it was either my fourth or fifth birthday when we loaded up one of those trucks with whatever belongings our parents had, and we moved to Deming. And that was all abuelito once doing. And Abuelito Juan had also ensured that most of us were born in Deminge. He had a good relationship with Doctor Husley there in Deming, you know, and he would make all those arrangements before. And when it was mom's time, she just came to Deming and had us in the Deming hospital. Unfortunately, with me, she didn't make it because she and my father went to a wedding in Asencion, she said. So as a consequence, I was born in Palomas. I'm a proud Palomara. But those are my memories of our grandfather as well, the generosity, you know. And Abuelita Chole was his second wife because my grandmother Juana died in childbirth after having delivered Juanita, the youngest. And another reason I want to know more information is because she, having died in childbirth, had a blood disorder which we were not aware of. I mean, I'm sure everyone else, other adults were aware of it. I wasn't until I was 45 years old, and I had an incident that manifested itself as a minor stroke, a brain bleed. And that's when I discovered that I had the disorder as well. Up to that point, all I knew about Grandma Juana was that I was named after her because I had her birthmark. I had a, we call it in Spanish, Amechon, you know, a streak of blonde hair in my back, of my head and a skin discoloration on my neck. And she had that as well. That's why they named me Juana. So I wanted to know if you knew of them when they got married and all that. However, back to Abuelita Chole. Grandma Juana died after having had Juanito. By that point, she had five children. Grandpa Juan married chole cause he needed help raising us, raising those children, rather, the children of Juan and Juana.

[15:19] RUDY MONTOYA: Yes.

[15:20] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: And she was a lovely, lovely person. I remember her playing the piano.

[15:25] RUDY MONTOYA: Oh, yes. I used to stop by there quite often just to listen to her. She will ask me, would you like to learn to play the piano? And she was a teacher. She was a teacher. She played the piano. Beautiful.

[15:37] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: She did.

[15:38] RUDY MONTOYA: And I said, yeah, but if I start here, what am I going to do? I don't have a piano at home. I can't continue. You're going to be here and I want to be 60 miles away.

[15:48] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Exactly.

[15:48] RUDY MONTOYA: So she says, you're right, you're right. But now she'll sit down and play Beethoven. She'll play all the classics.

[15:55] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: I know.

[15:55] RUDY MONTOYA: And it was beautiful.

[15:56] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: I have a lot of that music. I have a lot of her music. Yes.

[16:00] RUDY MONTOYA: Isn't that beautiful?

[16:01] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Yeah. I'll be glad to share it as well.

[16:03] RUDY MONTOYA: Yes.

[16:05] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Okay. I've done all the questions.

[16:08] RUDY MONTOYA: Well, I would like to narrate something that, you know how this whole thing started. You know how my grandfather, whose name was Stevan Montoya, he was born in Mesilla, New Mexico, around when Mesillas probably was still part of Mexico. After the Gazan purchase, Mesilla, Las Cruces and all the way up to Yuma, Arizona, became part of the USA. It was 1850, 418 54. I imagine all the residents of that area became automatically us citizens with the passing of time. 1868, problems started to develop. Political divisions, water rights between the locals and the new arrivals, to the point that one day in 1871, for a supposedly electoral fraud, the situation exploded between the political parties. It was then that the mexican origin citizens asked government of Mexico to give them asylum. Isn't that funny? They were citizens and now they are Americans, and now they want to become mexican citizens. However, they maintained the american citizenship. It was convenient because they could cross the border, work on this side, earn dollars, which was more than the mexican peso. So the government of Mexico granted them asylum. And in December 1871, the request is authorized by the mexican government. They had already had scouted the area where the town will be founded, La Ascension and the state of Chihuahua. On January 1, 1872, the first people arrived on that side. And here is where the story begins. Juana. This is what my grandfather was part of, the first colonizers of my hometown. We do not know if my grandfather was married yet or nothing. What we know is that our grandmother Francisca was a native apache. She was born of the Mezco little tribe, or the Jicarilla or other tribe, because there was another tribe somewhere around Deming. And there are some who say that she was born in Mexico. And there is another version that she was born in New Mexico. I think that Margarita is the one who told me and that they were married already. We don't have records of that. They had five children, which was Juan, your grandfather, my father, Epifanio, Francisco, Guadalupe, and Stanislada, which call her nickname Donna. Guadalupe moved to California. We do not know when exactly that happened. So my grandfather crossed the border to work and earned american money to support the family. However, at one time, he did not return for a long time, which developed suspicions by my grandmother, and she decided to leave him. They separated. She moved to California with Guadalupe, who by now was married and had two daughters, Francisca and Jovita. My grandmother joined my aunt Guadalupe on the business she had. It was a house for people away from home, providing basic services, room and board. Guadalupe passed away, and my grandmother, along with Francisca and Jovita, continued the business. I remember it was a two story house, and the. The bottom part of the house was where was the kitchen, and they had the rooms for people that were boarding there. And they had two or three showers there at the bottom. And it was north of Los Angeles, of the famous street, Olvera street. And across the street from Olvera street was the church. So my grandmother was living about five blocks away from there. Every morning, 05:00 in the morning, she'll get up, walk to church, and then come back. So when we were visiting, I remember I went with her a few times there. 05:00 in the morning. It was not nice, but I joined her because she used to buy pandulse.

[20:53] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: I love Pandusi to this day.

[20:56] RUDY MONTOYA: So they provided, along with Jovita and Francisca, room and board. As time passed away, when my grandfather, who was already in his nineties, he passed away in ascension. That time, my grandmother decided to return to LA Ascension to leave with my aunt Tana. A few months later, she passed away herself from the relationship that my grandfather had in the United States. Two brothers were born. I only remember one name, Gregorio. The other brother named. I knew, but only remember. I knew, but I don't remember the name. I remember that he was a bishop of a christian, non denominational church in the state of Washington. This is what I have in the history of our grandfather and grandmother Stevan and Francisca Montoya. I know. I know that there might be someone who wants to correct some of the writings I have done, and you are welcome. Just let me know and we can get together and perhaps update the information that I have, because I don't have any. I am the. I am the youngest of the family. You know, we were seven, right? And I am the youngest. I am the only one now on the circle of cousins left.

[22:28] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: And that's why it was so important that I. That I interview you, Rudy I mean, we need to hear these stories.

[22:35] RUDY MONTOYA: Absolutely, absolutely.

[22:37] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: And I thank you for that. Thank you very much. I want to ask about one other person that I kept hearing. Like I said, I remember Teresa, but was there a Fidel? Who was Fidel?

[22:48] RUDY MONTOYA: Fidel was the son of Lupe Guadalupe.

[22:54] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Oh, okay.

[22:54] RUDY MONTOYA: Yes.

[22:55] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Okay. All right. That was the only one I couldn't place. But I remember as a child hearing about him. And I know that he came as well, at least once to deming when I was young. And when our father passed away. And my mother was left with all ten of us raise. I remember he was one of the people and one of the cousins who came to mom and said, please, let me raise one of them, you know? And mom said, no, she was not going to separate her children. But in particular, he wanted. He offered to help with Pepe, our brother. And my mom was adamant, no, my children are not going to be separated. I will raise them whichever way I can. And she did a. A marvelous job, you know. But I do remember Fidel for that. And there was. There were. There weren't any hard feelings or anything, you know. Mom graciously just was adamant and said no.

[23:47] RUDY MONTOYA: And I think that she was right. You know, that's something that it happens. I know.

[23:52] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Absolutely. Yes.

[23:53] RUDY MONTOYA: People raise cousins and relatives, but she was a very strong person.

[23:59] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: She was a very, very strong person.

[24:01] RUDY MONTOYA: And a very devoted mother. Yes, I remember. I remember her. I interviewed her one time that we had a reunion in deming at Louis, your oldest brother. And I interviewed her on a videotape camera. And I asked her, I said, did you ever consider remarrying? And she says, oh, no. I knew that I would not be able to find another man like Luis, in spite of all his defects. She says he had more goodness than defects that he has. She says, I was not looking for to remarried. I said, well, she was. Let me tell you, your mother was a very strong.

[24:49] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: She definitely was the example that she set for us. Of excellent character and devotion to us. She was exemplary. She really was. You know, we will never be able to replace her.

[25:02] RUDY MONTOYA: So you have how many children?

[25:05] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: I have two.

[25:06] RUDY MONTOYA: Two?

[25:07] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Yes.

[25:08] RUDY MONTOYA: Okay. And you have how many sisters?

[25:12] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Well, I now only have three left.

[25:15] RUDY MONTOYA: Three left. But you had four?

[25:17] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Yes.

[25:17] RUDY MONTOYA: And brothers?

[25:18] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: I had five. And now I only have four as well.

[25:21] RUDY MONTOYA: Four. So Luis and who else?

[25:24] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Luis, Roberto. Luis is the only one who has died. Remaining are Roberto, Pepe, Juan and Angel.

[25:35] RUDY MONTOYA: And the sisters. Who is the one who passed away?

[25:37] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Anna, one of the youngest, was one.

[25:41] RUDY MONTOYA: Of the youngest ones, yes.

[25:43] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: So Lucy, Isabel and Lourdes remain. And myself, we were five boys and five girls, so we lost two in our family.

[25:53] RUDY MONTOYA: We were seven, three, excuse me, five boys and two ladies. Jesus was the oldest one. Leopoldo was the second one.

[26:05] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Okay.

[26:06] RUDY MONTOYA: Aguileramo. Third one. Beto. Eriberto, the fourth one. Teresa and Armida. Hiyo ultimo havia uno. Fernando Notania. I mean, he died when he was a year and a half. Okay, so I have recollections of him. I was year and a half, so I. Very few, very little recollections of Fernando and Armida. Armida passed away just recently, a couple of months ago.

[26:41] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: I know.

[26:42] RUDY MONTOYA: So that's. So I am the only one of this circle of cousins left.

[26:47] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: And again, for that I'm eternally grateful that you agreed to this, because we have to tap into you.

[26:54] RUDY MONTOYA: I am planning to be around for a long time.

[26:56] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Thank you, we appreciate that. Okay, well, if you don't have any other questions for me.

[27:06] RUDY MONTOYA: You have questions for me, I know.

[27:08] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Well, no, I asked them. I asked about our father. I wanted to know if you have any memories of him as a child at all.

[27:15] RUDY MONTOYA: I want to mention something that you said, something about your father being very, very dedicated to our church and our people. About the church building in Palomas.

[27:38] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: That was our grandfather, Juan.

[27:40] RUDY MONTOYA: Yes. And my father, he didn't build a part of the masonry part, but he built the roof, the doors, the windows. And your dad and Jesus, your uncle Jesus, were able to help him. And then he hired somebody else to come over and help him. Another carpenter. See, my father was a carpenter.

[28:03] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Yes. All that furniture, Napolita Cholese home was made by your father.

[28:08] RUDY MONTOYA: Yes, yes, there are a lot of questions that, you know, he used to come over and spend a lot of days in Palomas. And I remember when it was inaugurated, I wanted to come over and my mother says, no, you're going to stay here. So he hired an older lady to watch over my sister and I, and she came over to Palomas for the inauguration of the. And the blessing of the church. It was so many, so many people, so beautiful. I know that there are pictures that were taken there. Perhaps we can capture. I have a picture of the church at home, but it's only now days. Not the one.

[28:51] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: I have several of it, because I have a box full of pictures. You know, Tiamerta was a photographer. She did so many jobs, but one of them was photography. And I have a box full of pictures that she took, and I will share those with you when we finally sit down. Include margarita in on this as well, and share those pictures with you. But now I'm going to be on the lookout for early church pictures as well.

[29:20] RUDY MONTOYA: Yes. Now, you tell me what you remember of your. You're dead most. That is in your heart. That is very much in your mind.

[29:31] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Yeah. I remember him being very, very loving. I remember him taking a huge part in raising us. In the everyday upbringing. He would get up very early in the morning to go to work and fix his own breakfast and want to father mom. I remember exactly what he used to have. You know, his pinole. He would come home at noon. Mom would make a big lunch for all of us, because all of us came home at lunchtime and then come home in the evening. And in the evening, his hobby, if you want to call it, was to read. And he'd walk in the door and hug our mother hello and proceed to read. I believe it was El Fronterizo. And he subscribed to Siempre magazine. And what's the other one? Reader's Digest, you know, and I remember again my parents being very, very loving. And he would, in the evening, when we were all done with dishes and what have you, he would play with whoever was the youngest, the youngest of the kids got his full attention. He would teach them how to walk. He would teach them how to talk, you know, and just generally play with all of us, you know, very, very hardworking. I remember him coming home, and I remember him coming home and handing his paycheck over to mom, you know, and again, just his loving devotion to her. They were very, very loving parents to one another and to us as well.

[31:11] RUDY MONTOYA: How would you describe, you said that you suffered. How would you describe that to us?

[31:22] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Well, at the time, I was very, very ignorant. I would never have imagined that I would have a stroke. So at the time, I was teaching at El Paso Community college, and when it happened, I thought it was a horrible headache, the worst headache of my life. And as it happened, the department head was there that evening, you know, and some of it I attributed to stress. I thought, oh, maybe my mother is right. I do too much, you know. But anyway, it was a severe headache like I never had. And I started dropping papers. You know, I was teaching the class, but I was dropping things. And I quickly wrapped up the class and went to his office, and he said, let me take you home because you don't look well. And I said, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. I just need to get home. I have a horrible headache. It felt like someone had taken an ax and just hit me in the back of the head and would not remove it, you know, as it was, I drove myself home, which was a very, very foolish, very foolish of me to do that. But the minute I walked in the door, I called my husband and I said, you need to come get me. No, actually, I called 911, and I said, I am in the bedroom. I'm sitting in the chair. The garage door is open. I have the worst headache of my life. And that continued. Well, I obviously was taken to the hospital, and in the hospital I had another bleed. The first one occurred in my left occipital lobe, and then the second, 110 days later, was in the frontal part of my brain. And as a result, luckily, I mean, look at me.

[32:57] RUDY MONTOYA: What advice would you give a person that is listening now has some symptoms like that?

[33:03] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Listen, listen. Pay attention to the worst headache of your life. Call 911 immediately. And like I said at the time, I was very fortunate because I got help immediately. And it wasn't until many days later that a hematologist, whom I still go to, gave the prognosis because I kept bleeding. I also had a lung embolism during those ten days, in that ten day period. And I remained in the hospital for at least six weeks.

[33:30] RUDY MONTOYA: So you mentioned that you were a college professor.

[33:34] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Well, I was just an instructor, but yes.

[33:38] RUDY MONTOYA: Where did you go to school?

[33:40] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Where did I go to school? Here in El Paso at the University of Texas. At El Paso.

[33:44] RUDY MONTOYA: University of Texas, El Paso.

[33:46] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: And at the time, I was teaching developmental reading at the community college level.

[33:50] RUDY MONTOYA: I wanted to be a teacher myself, too.

[33:53] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Oh, it's a profession.

[33:54] RUDY MONTOYA: I never reached it. However, I got involved in aerospace. I'm going to tell you now my history, please. When I came to this country, I went to school. When I went to California, I wanted to be a helicopter mechanic. And I learned. I learned the trade, and I didn't get the position because I met my wife and I got married. But anyway, before that, I went to school. I got involved in aerospace. In the aerospace industry, I was able to work with top notch engineers and designers, and I became a software designer for different projects like the space shuttle, like fighter planes, f 14, f 15 satellites. And I worked with a jewish engineer that took me under his arm. And he taught me a lot. He really. I learned a lot from him. I became MTS, which is member of the technical staff, you are an on graduate employee that work with the engineers and end designers and all that. So you are at the same level. What you don't have is just the.

[35:28] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Paper that came from college, but that's highly technical.

[35:31] RUDY MONTOYA: Yes, I was blessed with that. And I had a wonderful experience, a wonderful experience working in aerospace. I got to meet some of the astronauts, especially when the building of the space shuttle that used to come over and they used to walk around, look at the different things that were going on, and we were not supposed to distract them, just wave at them and say hi and keep on going. I also got to meet Mister Howard Hughes, which was the first company that I worked in aerospace. He was a very generous person. He was one of the first jobs that I had, and I met him by accident. I started there as a computer operator, and one time, the individual that was, I was working on the second shift because I was going to school daytime, and the third shift operator didn't show up. So my supervisor called me and says, can you pull a double? Can you double up? I said, yes. So I did. And the next morning I had instructions what to do with the reports that were generated that night. I had to go to Mister Hughes office. I walk in there, I had to call security, because I didn't have the clearance to go in there. Security came over, opened the door for me, and I dropped the reports, and I walked into Mister Hughes's office and I said, good morning. Mister Hughes just saluted me and I walk out. So the second day he asked me, he says, what happened to Jorge? Jorge was the chief operator that used to bring. He even knew his name and all that. And I said, jorge's mother is very sick and he won't be coming for a few days, so I am going to be filling his position. She said, okay, tell your manager to call me. I said, okay. So I stayed until the manager came in that day, and I told him, Mister Hughes wants you to call him. He says, oh, you met Mister Hughes? I said, yes, I did, why? Then I explained the situation. He says, okay, what Mister Hughes wanted to tell him Washington that Jorge could be out as long as he wanted and that he wouldn't be duck his paycheck. So I finally found out who Jorge was. Jorge was the son of a farmer that saved Mister Hughes's life. He used to. Mister Hughes used to have right there next to the factory landings, Triphenhe. At one time he was testing a new plane and he crashed and he landed on the land that he was this farmer was there, and this farmer went and pulled him out of the plane, save his life. So that eventually happened, that Mister Hughes bought the land and extended his offices right there, and gave Jorge's father a job for life. So that individual passed away. And then Jorge, the son, had a job for life, too. It's interesting, all those details that I didn't. Didn't know that Mister Hughes was so generous.

[38:59] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Rudy I thank you. This has been so wonderful to get more details about our parents and grandparents. And I thank you for your generosity and all that, you know, for sharing all that with me. And wouldn't grandfather Esteban and mama Chica be proud of us? Of course. Look how far we've become. We've come.

[39:21] RUDY MONTOYA: Yes.

[39:22] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Thank you, Rudy

[39:23] RUDY MONTOYA: My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you, Juana.

[39:25] JUANA MONTOYA JAMESON: Thank you.