Sahar Al-Nima and Syma Mohammed

Recorded February 20, 2021 Archived February 19, 2021 56:14 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddv000501


Syma Mohammed (33) interviews new acquaintance Sahar Al-Nima (26) about immigrating to the United States as an adult, after being forced to flee Iraq in her childhood following the U.S. Invasion.

Subject Log / Time Code

SA speaks about her childhood in Iraq up to age 8, before her family fled to Syria and Kuwait following the United States Invasion of Iraq. SA recalls her parents sitting their family down and explaining the refugee process for them to go to the United States, and being excited at new possibilities to go to college.
SA remembers being accepted to the University of Colorado and anticipating a culture shock, never feeling it, but experiencing a delayed identity crisis a few years later. SA recalls having tempered expectations of America but thinking hard work would allow freedom to do anything she wanted.
SA shares memories of arriving in Colorado with nothing but their clothes, with no jobs or even an apartment lined up. SA remembers getting used to the snow and sharing their first night sleeping in the motel room with her family. SA speaks about things seemingly falling into place and preventing most anxieties in the beginning.
SM asks SA about the “honeymoon period” of arriving and beginning college. SA says it’s important to note that their family was fluent in English, highly educated, and already had an understanding of credit and financial aid, etc. SA recalls studying philosophy and creative writing.
SA remembers balancing the idea that the United States had flaws while still having an idealized vision of it. SA recalls taking college courses about the politics of the United States and beginning to see systemic cracks in the structure of the U.S. and its history. SA speaks about beginning to question the logic of capitalism and privatization.
SA remembers Donald Trump beginning his run for the presidency, and discussing politics on a first date. SA notes that she would be profoundly affected by the election but could not vote, and remembers feeling disillusioned and out of place.
SA describes her upbringing in Iraq during a period of economic sanctions and feeling unsafe as a child. SA says her memories of Iraq are dominated by a period of lock-down during the United States Invasion.
SA remembers feeling ready to finally settle down and feel at home in the United States and beginning to question her place. SA recalls becoming a naturalized citizen and feeling detached during the oath-taking process. SA speaks about accepting that this will always be nuanced and complicated.
SA reflects on balancing the divide between her “American-ness” and Arab Identity. SA contrasts the warmth and closeness felt in Arab in relationships with the sense of individuality and privacy in American culture. SA discusses aspiring to personal success as a family and community member, but not falling into the pursuit of capital.
SA speaks about different labels and identities that resonate with her, and how they can fall short of describing who she is as a person. SA reflects on what gives her a feeling of home: her mother.
SA remembers using her U.S. passport for the first time to attend a family reunion in Australia, and having her brother be profiled by airport security. SA describes the duality of having a passport that socially wields so much power yet cannot prevent these experiences.


  • Sahar Al-Nima
  • Syma Mohammed

Partnership Type



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00:01 Yeah, of course. Yes. Oh, my name is Simon Muhammad. I'm 33 years old and today is February 20th 2021. I'm currently occupying the virtual space and my name of my partner is used to hard and excited to speak to you at as a new acquaintance.

00:27 Hi, I'm I'm Sahara Lima. I'm 26 years old. Today is the 20th 20 21 year. What a year old. Has he been right now? I'm occupying just paid for storycorps, and I'm and I am really excited to get to know you more.

00:51 King wonderful. Thank you so hard. I'm so good morning and welcome to story, in terms of starting your I guess this write a conversation. I'm I wanted to take you back to you when you're 18 years old and you find out that you would be coming to America. So you remember the day that you find that and can you tell me a little bit about that? What happened?

01:21 Oh, yeah, I remember that day very distinctly. So yay story time I was born originally from I was born and raised there till I was about 8 years old and after the invasion my parents and we were in Syria for a while and then we move to Kuwait for a while. So I didn't find out that we were going to come cuz I was a junior in high school at that point and my parents kind of kept the whole thing completely under wraps until the

02:09 Upcoming inter are like interview thing what's happening, which usually signifies that that was the the process they went through and I remember distinctly my parents took me and my siblings out for dinner and we were at this the Lebanese restaurant that I still remember the layout for the next train details, but I will not go into it and they set us down and they were like, so there's this process.

02:53 Google search we can go to the United States because my dad's help the American Army. So we came under special immigration visa which technically makes you a refugee. But like if you like the same almost like it's in a weird way, you get the same privileges of being like you stepped immigrants because you get the green card really quickly after I do this is how it's going really well and I think we're going to be able to go there for a second being a senior in high school and high school started to think about what I was going to do and Kuwait has a bit of an oddball when it comes to being a lady who wait. There's a lot that goes I don't think we have

03:53 But basically I was having like all of these anxieties about what I was going to do past my high school education, and I kind of sat there for a while.

04:06 I would love that and I started to imagine the possibility of just coming through the state. Of course everything that I know about that. I think I've never been before movies and TV shows Hollywood this great and so I was wondering when does Fear the anxiety of moving to a new place with his knee and it didn't happen. I was just excited. I was very excited by the possibility.

04:44 Flash Forward like the years later and the whole process went well and everything you have a specially moved to the United States. It was 2014.

04:55 And I was still waiting for that anxiety two weeks after we arrived to Colorado. I got an acceptance letter from the University of Colorado and I enrolled in the university and the two years later.

05:22 Hit me like a train wreck and it was so loud. I couldn't look away suddenly like occurred to me that I'm a Stranger in a Strange Land.

05:36 Ended kind of like ever since then took me down the rabbit hole of her total identity crisis 2016 or a little bit more when you say that you came over. I mean, I'd love to hear about what your thoughts and impressions of America wear before you moved here and how and I don't know Hebrew call when you arrived at your ride cuz I'd love some more detail on that what that was that she's like for you as well. So a little bit about your expectations and then a little bit of it coming here. What is like the First Tee and maybe have some of those to your expectations were challenged or in some way.

06:31 Yeah expectations. I mean

06:36 Three pair like someone who have to live my childhood, which was not very pleasant considering the glasses were never really ought. Not fully. I was excited by the possibility for sure, but I was not aware of how every place if you look at it long enough problem bike stations were tempered for the most part but I did have the expectation of like, this is America, which is now charged but this is America as in the place of opportunity the place where I will be able to if I work hard enough I will be able to be whoever I choose to be and there was so much Freedom associated with being here to especially for someone who has never really been able to park or

07:36 Do all of these things I was very excited about court and I stayed so huge and so I'm not going to your graphically but also like as a as a power, I guess I'm in the world. I was open highly aware of how difficult it was going to be to be here as well in terms of

08:00 Shining competition, which I don't really like either but not particularly easy, but it is doable in my mind at least and mind you I had a very Innocent but I think like those were the two main thing for me opportunity and freedom that I was most

08:36 End

08:38 Kind of coming here and it's already that seems to be exactly the case for me.

08:47 I remember distinctly like if we're going to find out my macros to hear let's February 2nd 2014. We had just landed in Denver in Denver International Airport Denver Colorado live only been here like a briefly before and the whole like pageants that I will not get into house that was the case. But basically we when we first found out about like we kind of did it did the moving in low and slow motion almost because we need to worry about it. So what?

09:28 The thing that sticks out to me mode so we can hear it has nothing to our names except like we're five people that buy clothing and my dad had a look like a hotel room for like 5 days and I have to find a job that I have to go to a car that very ambitious and for some reason that for me so I feel like I should have been more afraid that I was but I wasn't honestly probably probably I don't know how sometimes things happen in a very strange way.

10:28 About for some reason that detailed hit me because I have never seen so much like powder snow at 1 and I think that was the moment. It will be a pretty common for me like just like oh, okay and

10:52 Yeah, I distinctly remember that that first night where we all cramped into one motel room and we're so tired because of flying with impossibly long and just kind of like fell asleep. And you didn't even though it was my youngest brother was 13 years old. None of the following dad. I was just excited and opportunity opportunity, which is wonderful amazing. Thank you for sharing that detail and still.

11:49 I don't know if I should ask you the five days. Didn't he didn't get those achievement objects is where it didn't happen in this 5 days. I'm assuming the car took a week. My dad's job pick 2 weeks, but pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, I guess the faith or whatever my dad one of my dad's co-workers looking for her to wait. I have a cousin who lives in Denver near his phone number if you need anything.

12:33 But I don't know the first called him and he does like him. So yeah, my cousin told me that you would do you want to come over for dinner? And basically it was and who I will be eternally grateful for that. We found an apartment and then my dad managed to buy a car used car be co-signed on the loan basically with my dad cuz that's a whole other life for like a while for two years my dad so he can like actually like it started with something if you don't have history of work here. It's so difficult.

13:33 So it was like by some kind of weird this with the face that I kind of just fell into place really quickly. It felt like it was meant to be and I think that was a another part of me that like what he that's why my lack of nerves are stretched continued because I was like, oh this is like going and then, you know a couple of really nice just like you being here for the first two years. She said where you felt like this was just home and this felt like the space do it like for you and you want to talk about some of that maybe I don't have that associate with being college and be happy with what you were studying and friends or family or the situation. Like you said everything landed very neatly when you arrived which is also very different from a lot of people's experiences. So, yeah, so

14:33 Is it the more about that. When we moved here and I think that's what's really important to know. My parents are both like like Highly Educated people. My dad have two bachelor's degrees and my mom has Masters in Translation. So kind of like I think that was one thing that needs getting accustomed to the community because my dad couldn't have gotten his job if he was not like I think because of that we were able to understand a lot of like not just the language of the technicalities of settling into space something like okay credit works this way health insurance works this way financial aid.

15:28 After this is done throwing up. Definitely does not do all of these things kind of went since you

15:45 Intuit and because my parents were like very Vigilant fire the north but actually make you in in here and so yes a lot of my honeymoon phase weirdly enough is associated with at two bedroom apartments like a really really scary to buy a house do

16:25 Do they do but the thing mostly that I loved about that face is my University. I was able to study something that I looked so I have a bachelor's in Humanities, which is the major that but I loved it and kind of being in that made me feel like anything that I want to do possible University. I'm like I am very academically inclined and I do really well in terms of book smart, so

17:25 Boris there. I felt myself becoming like a big butt and a lot of it was associated with the study of themselves being in that like really amazing University and brought out the best of what I had and just offered so much to me that was engaging intellectually and socially and everything. That was my honeymoon phase

18:05 Do you want me to get into how that broke apart or should we wait?

18:15 What changed for you? I mean, when did it start to become did you become less or I guess post-honeymoon phaser the infatuation or the rose tinted glasses or I don't know the infatuation or whatever. You want to call it 3 minutes away. Yeah to go back to my earlier, even with my own caveats about the United States a knowing that if you look at something long enough, you'll start to see if I still had like a very idealized version of the Mind by FICO but you know, like they work past a lot of the stuff that they went through those to find, you know about anything really that things are moving smoothly and that's awkward.

19:10 I would say.

19:15 Funnily enough that the breaking my honeymoon is my college Years also which contributed to it.

19:27 That had more to do with the politics of the place and the history and everything and peel back those layers. Like it's fine. We'll fix it that everything is under control and then never mind that starts to have like a thinking realization that much much deeper than you think. I do remember one of my temple and it was like it was an intro class that had just a general and just general

20:24 So what you call it like General overview?

20:36 Not going to go nuts. I have a whole spiel about that, but I will not get into it and he started to talk about how like this system doesn't work because I was looking at a time. Like I was looking at something like education Savage inequalities. His name is expecting me and it's about looking at the whole thing in that particular spot and

21:19 Coming to realize that this is really messed up like on a very deep and fundamental level how we have managed to wood in the building in the system is inequality so that they kind of continue to perpetuate themselves without anyone they hands off and everything just like your husband down the rabbit hole and they're just never going to like actually able to catch up with anything and all of it and how like years and years and then I was thinking my watch more about the theoretical

22:19 Capitalism as being like that and don't be all thing and I was looking at are you sure like, this doesn't seem right. It doesn't like the flea markets and just like going about your business and and and believing that eventually money and privatization. What's coming to save you to run in the exact opposite direction of these stem from like extreme privatization of everything including education and Healthcare and all of that and those are contributing to Major inequalities. So I would have low dining room addition that like things are really messed up in a way that like bunnies.

23:15 And then it would 2015 and I think everyone remembers that around this time Donald Trump ran for presidency.

23:24 And

23:27 Experts I ignored ignored ignored it. And then it was 2016. The finest find Hillary has got us a racist and we'll try to mobilize their right and then

23:54 My through Breaking Point with I was having so I had to crush.

24:00 And it was our first Coffee Day and usually happens on day to talk politics. I don't know if that's what you do eventually the subject us politics.

24:17 And that's up there listening to him talking about how Hillary Clinton actually was almost as bad as Trump. If not even were I was like oh shit and that I think was the moments where I felt because I was pretty sure you're all so I couldn't load of that point in time. So I had really no say in anything. That was even though it was a green card holder, but I think it was good.

24:57 Sudden

25:00 Understanding this dawning realization that what I consider to be priority. My not the other people the priorities might not be other people's priorities completely and for me regardless of what you think of someone like Hillary Clinton or the Democratic party. I'm not like a supporter of the Democratic Party by any means but to compare what has happened and all the mishaps that Hillary has done to the blatant racism and sexism and dinner Cobia that Donald Trump was

25:47 Just like bringing out and everyone absolutely nonsensical and that was coming from someone. That was a Bernie Sanders supporter that was coming from someone who was Progressive by his own. Send in an extremely Progressive environment. We could possibly talk about you and I just kind of like

26:21 Oh, wow, I guess it doesn't if he gets elected doesn't really hurt you as much as it would hurt me. So you don't really care all that much and I felt very orange all of a sudden there was almost like I had an out-of-body experience that was looking down at myself and almost laughing at myself because it's like you taught that you belong to funny you thought everything was fine. Oh, wow, you stop that. This was really your home.

27:06 And I just like fat bear. Wow.

27:11 Okay, I see how it's how this is going to go when he want. Everyone was so shocked. I was deeply deeply depressed after he won but I was not shocked and that feeling of that deep sense of these being the face that you're in.

27:39 Carried on for years later

27:43 In a very profound way, but I started to

27:50 Wonder

27:54 Where where is home for me?

27:59 Am I ever going to have that because I know that it's not it's not like I can go back there. I haven't been there since I was nine doesn't mean anything to me a place where I got hurt a lot, but then I started to realize that it is a place that I got hurt a lot in because of the place that I am in right now.

28:23 And well

28:27 Where does that leave me?

28:32 Can you describe and just to take me you were saying that a Rexall Place that you go hurt a lot. She want to explain that to me. If you don't mean if you're comfortable I do if you're not comfortable to wear. I don't mind describing back.

28:51 So if I was born in 1995 and 1995 at the conversation, so after the first Gulf War Iraq went into this long. That was really a bunch of where the equivalent of like, we're never going to talk to you again by the entire world. Like there was no explanation in the country and I kind of like the Lumia track a random airstrike. Like I remember it's happening very regularly even before the war.

29:38 And kind of growing up in that environment. I basically had to be unsafe childhood. Not just a from a prospective the physical safety but also the mental safety because my parents were constantly Rising feeling like claustrophobia and then there was this

30:13 Simply because it's just you know, so and then of course my formative years when I was 7 as 8 where is hardly spent in war eventually?

30:43 The lead up to it and then the eventual like actuality of it.

30:52 And my and right now we can talk to you. I'm trying to remember the years before 2003 but honestly, they feel so distant from me. What come to the Forefront when I think Eric would like those six weeks or so. I'm not really sure how long they was there a lockdown at centrally that we were not lockdown independent expense. But really you can't whip like you cannot leave like not even one take one step outside of the door because there's the barrel people literally killing each other right outside of its everyone remember my parents my siblings and my grandparents my my aunt and my uncle all from my dad side because my mom said that they were all gone.

31:51 Technically my grandfather's house and my mom said that we were living in and we're like okay water and no one but I really don't want to meet a friend of mine. Just my dad mugging big a big bags of flour and pasta and like boxes of chips and biscuit things that are non-perishable eventually put him in bed storage because that's important to life.

32:34 And then you know that. And the constant feeling of constant feeling of danger and you know this because I'm a child but really that's what comes to mind and because I left it really early on it. Like well doesn't feel all that much like home, you know, but where does that leave me?

33:16 And I asked that question because you were seeing the feeling I felt I really wanted to understand when you said that you felt that.

33:26 This Chiquita place where childhood heart. So what I'm understanding is it that you then feel unsafe in America or are you at home or not as safe or just not comfortable and that's really what I was and I just stand still and we have 10 minutes left. So I just wanted to let you know that too. Yeah, I think yesu just a little bit more about that in terms of you know, how that has left you feeling in terms of unsafe here. And then where is that taking you in terms of how you feel yourself in relationship America and how you feel yourself in relation to home or what was home, you know shock for me because I was really ready to settle. You know, I looked we lived in fear for a while I left.

34:26 But not there. Which I'm eternally grateful for enough, but it never really felt fine. But I would really ready for it to be mine to be my home to be the place that I belong to in one way or another.

34:50 And it just kind of feel like that in a lot of ways right now if I go anywhere and I tried to divorce myself from my American identity. I think I would be losing myself. Just considering the Deep Impact that this has had on that being here has had on my life. But this process expecting that home will never be what I

35:20 Expected to be was long and difficult so here because everything was up in the air like okay, but then a couple years would be eligible to get to go ahead and like a fly to get a passport and then citizenship but should we or demonstration goes to crack down so hard on her ministers them from other people who have come from like places like a rock and who I'm with one. Would that actually be a smart thing to do because we don't know what like something only like a few days.

36:10 Great, excellent. Perfect. So suddenly like everything start to feel unsettled and that was very reminiscent. I think I like the Panic that we had or at least I had when when everything starts.

36:37 Slowly and cuddled and you know, we kind of like moved on with our lives and you know, you watch the news and you're like scream at them for a few minutes, but then you can move on okay where we can't really think about this all that much room for the passport and the citizenship.

37:10 Not going to go to do it and we actually did Stan in 2018. We just become like a naturalized citizen describing how my relationship works right now. It's like I sit there like picking the old so like after you go through the whole about like speaking better oats for like becoming a naturalized citizen and I kind of like it there.

37:43 End

37:45 I was like really thinking. Okay. What am I pledging allegiance to like exactly and I'm very skeptical in general of nation-states. I think that has become a part of like my point of view and life probably due to the fact that I don't really feel attached to the idea of a home in terms of a nation-state in and of itself.

38:17 What is it? I'm looking at it long enough now for it to become.

38:25 Not crate to become deeply flawed and this has so much in it that I don't want to see a Twist and so much of it that I do not enjoy like the ideas of the vicious competition. For example that you should be driven by your Ambitions regardless regardless, you know more more more a growth for growth and to what end and do I really want to associate with that and I think

39:08 That's where I'm at almost trying to park out details of my life within this community feeling simultaneously a part of it and feeling like it is a part of me and undeniable part of me, but also deciding for myself that but I'm not going to let it consume me that there are things that I'm not willing to compromise and just because I do love display in my own strange way.

39:47 It's never going to be an easy. Love.

39:50 It will always be complicated and kind of being okay with that that it will always be complicated and nuanced.

40:01 Stomach

40:05 No, it does. Thank you. It's like this illusion with him and lovers. I can some ways, you know when you started up like totally infatuated, and then you start to see their flaws, so that totally makes sense. We have a few minutes left. So I just wanted to make sure I know you wanted to talk about what your American is mean to you and hide your true identity to interact, you know, and Luigi says we can take I don't know if you see the messages, but just just reading just wanted to ask you a little bit more about that then, you know.

40:47 What is American need this mean to you? And how do you write dancy's overlap? And we were talking about code of ours about Swift sister wife. So it may be in touch with some of your identities to and how that works for you by American listening to me. So

41:17 Growing up means that there's just undeniable warm and relationship that I love hearing it over to my American Idol this feeling of familiarity and intimacy that I think is really liking and so I tried to toe the line between like getting his pay that's my American size for you and and the intimate in my relationship that I carry very proudly and I think some people like are really shocked by like how much I express how much I care about them like two actions and through words and how like, I don't really not really afraid of coming across as like to needy or clingy or whatever like

42:17 Why pretend otherwise?

42:21 That was like consolidating the school, but I'm also going to be I think that's like a really that's one way of talking about it. I love thee the ambitious part of my American identity. Like I do want to be successful. I do want to do something that matters to me, you know to be a very active participant in society, but I haven't used to it but there's so much I'm not willing for my ambition so much. I'm not willing to step on other people to get ahead. For example, you know, I'm not willing to compromise some ideas for much more importantly. I think that I will not bend over backwards to achieve some kind of version of success that relies and

43:21 Are we on bike?

43:23 Spending on material spending on money on like the endless pursuit of

43:32 Capital eventually, I'm not willing to go there and and that's not something that I Aspire for. It's more like success in my own way that I do what matters to me what makes me happy. What is helpful? Even if it's a small change in the world even because that's great. I love that. You know, I think that it is individual another way to

44:19 Talk about it. I guess like the Americans.

44:25 And I do one thing that I think it is pretty and I don't know if that's American or not. But one one way that I like her by the things that I do not the things that are

44:42 This is left on but more like things that are like labels that are given to you as more like things that I like doing or like these that I actively do. I mentioned earlier like being a daughter that's not just a label that I was born with that is a label that I also like I do everyday, you know, Karen for my parents and being a part of their life. That is something that I actively do that is open up being a friend like yeah sure. I'm not published but I right and that is an important part of who I am and my outlook on life and there's like a whole bunch of other things that like falling to it being a Storyteller of being a part of a community. All of these things are things that I activate a call on the God bless us.

45:41 I guess regardless of like the label that are attached to it and that I didn't really choose you know, so yeah sure you can sleep in.

45:53 But I don't know how much I can tell you about who I am as a person. That's the conclusion that I'm reaching like.

46:02 I am who I am.

46:05 Regardless of labels

46:08 So do you think there is a place is home? And where do you find home? I think like the end Alkali coming to terms with that? Yeah.

46:27 My mom is like you know how sometimes like no matter how much you go old. Sometimes you just like what the hell that's it. That's where my home is wherever she's at where Brooke she's happiest wherever she's at her back. That's where home is wherever I can go see her place and more with a person is feeling that that warm that comes with like being in the same house with your mother.

47:18 Beautiful thinking I mean where there any other thoughts that you wanted to share people.

47:34 Always ask what is it like?

47:38 Being

47:41 Having a hyphenated identity and I think things that I always go back to

47:48 I honestly don't know because the thing is to know what something is like you have to know what that thing is not like to be fully read one thing which I don't think it's all that possible by like if you want to take it.

48:13 I don't know what that's like so I know way I don't really know what having a high face either. Do I have nothing else to compare? This is the only occupied from very early on his childhood. So it's kind of like asking someone to describe air.

48:34 That was the last thing I would want to say. Yeah.

48:42 Okay.

48:44 That's great. Yeah.

48:47 I also just wanted to ask her that they ended up. I mean did you see him again?

48:55 Did you see him again?

48:58 Yeah, I did a couple times but then it didn't work out. I don't think he likes me and honestly, I don't think I like them all that much either.

49:09 Why won't give us a metaphor and then they released You More Country very attractive.

49:32 No, I mean I seem like he knew I think that's the thing we see things in their things are generally pretty on the outside and then you think a little deeper and then you start to see that the internal beauty is not always matching. Exactly. Okay. This is a piping underneath baby. Yeah, and I like to pick myself up.

50:22 I think everybody's like yeah, yeah.

50:30 Yeah, we all carry a bunch of contradictions. But yeah, no, but thank you. I mean, I thank you for sharing your perspectives and I really appreciate that man. You know, I want two things it and I would really love and I don't know if you have an example was just really almost like to date and almost like also when you were taking off his well those were just incident or just particular scene that I just wanted. I seen a description of a scene that would really show those incongruities between the Terry, you know, I mean, I think the date was one such scene and I think you know your tummy, you know that you're probably excited and it was really going to be great and then you're having the coffee everything we need and then suddenly you find out you know that this is

51:18 Yeah, or the old that you dress up to take the souls and you something you get excited for for a very long time, but you get their Ennis use your heart starts to sing because you're like, oh actually, you know, what is like Mary J. You know, I see you at even just with the inequalities that you describe to like if you had something that you wanted to describe that would be together all of these.

51:49 The first time that I flew using my American passport

51:54 My family and I are going to visit my cousins and my aunts and uncles in Australia. So, like I said, my mother's side of the family. They all ended up in Australia. And this was like a family reunions for the ages. You know, like we haven't been all in the same station like 24 years.

52:18 No, I'm very kind of pain. Which brother is like absolute like nightmare. You need like months and months of applying for a Visa and make it a great day.

52:54 Hey you like there's an electronic to be there that you can do online flight comes up in 10 minutes because you haven't and I picked my password and security and everything. Looks like me my sister my mother's all go through security at all smooth sailing and then and then like

53:18 Of course. My brother is looks the most Arab out of all of us and he's eating was he 1819? I think I actually right in the back of a graphic F like being in an airport and it's like this contradiction up like watching him like getting extremely patted down probably a little bit inappropriately to because it was like, what are you doing this Mama Bear Instinct? Because he's younger than me and I just

54:03 There are some things that you didn't this all-powerful piece of paper cannot protect you from contradiction in much easier than ever had it before this is so easy. But then on the other hand, it's like butt stuff.

54:26 That's a great example. Thank you for that so hard. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

54:33 You're totally welcome. I was my pleasure. Actually, I mean, you know, yeah, I was like he know it's it's SUV lovely to speak to people on this enemy Luigi can probably attest is too but is it is really lovely to actually sit and speak to people about their experiences in their stories and you know, and thank you for sharing yours. It's always such an honor to hear somebody else's experiences and thank you for sharing choosing to share in to spend your Saturday morning with us before you had breakfast as well. Wonderful say I love that. It's like everything about that the oral histories and I think we're all his parents. Tell me about their own history.

55:27 Yeah, I think so many non-western cultures are oral to Ted orange juice as I know Arabic couch has a very strong oral tradition even appoint Tree in storytelling. I'm you know, and I think that's something really for fines. And I think it's just so interesting though. I mean, that's why I think I also love for all history is because it just reminds me of my grandfather telling stories and it reminds me of storytellers Sue or my daddy says instalike, you know, so I just love sitting caring people stories cuz I think it takes me back to this really warm save space when I was younger.

56:10 Yeah.