Sally Winslow and Roy Sowers

00:05 Hi, I'm Sally. Would Winslow hard to believe? I'm 72 years old. Today is the 14th of July in 2021.

00:18 We're at the flower city. Arts center on Monroe. Avenue in Rochester, New York, New York. My conversation partner is Roy Sowers. And he's my friend. I'll say he's my best friend.

00:34 Your turn, right? My name is Roy Sowers.

00:40 I'm 69. It's Bastille Day 14th of July 2021. My location, Rochester, New York.

00:52 And she's my best friend.

00:56 Sally Winslow.

01:01 Roy, do you remember when we first met?

01:06 Do ya around the table at Janet's house? It's right. They called me up and said I had to be there.

01:15 You were with a group of artists, you were one of about 8 artists. You called yourselves the left banke.

01:24 And here I was.

01:27 A brand new Gallery, director.

01:31 Epicenter at High Falls Fine, Art Gallery and you were the real deal. You were a professional Fine Art photographer and you had a well-earned degree, a graduate degree from RIT.

01:50 What you think of me that first moment?

01:54 Well, I see Diane filled me in, in about 10 minutes before you came cuz I had never heard of this particular gallery or any, but Diane, and Ted had this idea and they were absolutely all wrapped up in it.

02:15 So, they put this whole proposal together.

02:19 Your group gave me a written proposal for an art exhibition.

02:25 It was the best one I've ever seen. It was absolutely fantastic. You had about, I think I had for painters a collages to sculpt her and to poets and I'm really excited to meet you all having finished in photography. What they do. I hung out with poets and Painters. I remember one person in the group.

02:51 Told me that he thought I was too perky and I responded by saying, well, I'm proud to be perky. I was captain of the Russian Rihanna high, school cheerleaders, in 1967. And another one of your group. Remember? Bruce said,

03:13 1967.

03:16 And I said, you got something against that and he said, no, I was in your class and it turned out that I had an old friend right at the table and we didn't recognize each other. I've been living in Florida for more than 20 years and I was brand-new back in Rochester.

03:38 Soror you say you never heard of High Falls Art Gallery before you spend most of your time at RIT. And I spend most of my time in the dark at RIT.

03:54 Is just beginning to learn?

03:57 Where in the city I was about to show you the sabril light because the High Falls Fine Art Gallery was inside, Rochester's Visitor Center and it was located in an old old building in the historic district.

04:15 And it was right adjacent to the city's 100-foot waterfall.

04:23 So the city imagined that they could Revitalize, this historic district, if they put together a spectacular Visitor Center.

04:34 And inside was to go and art gallery.

04:38 And lucky me. I made that place. My happy place for 24 years.

04:45 I'd never seen anything like it when you came to visit.

04:56 Couldn't get enough of the pipes and the engines of the old Holley system. You took a picture of him and Bruce and someone died and sitting and standing on pipes was we could pump water from three different waterfalls in close proximity, to each other, upper middle and lower Falls. We became of flour, Milling capital of the world. At one point. Even the Queen of England, loved Rochester flour for find baking. It was one of our many claims to fame. We were such an inventive City.

05:45 Having an art gallery down there. In this out-of-the-way District was really an exciting proposition. We had brick walls, we had yet. I be brand-new. I beam Rafters. So, there was a beautiful blend and industrial-looking blend of new and old in that Gallery. The drug that 24 years. We kept making more space by taking over this little niche over here, or that little office over there. It was great fun. I designed the gallery to be an unusual model. You stumbled into something that was wonderful. Having an art gallery. It was the only one I found and I did a survey of 100 cities that were similar in size.

06:40 And we welcomed artists of all ages and skill levels and we promised them we would show their work. This was one thing. I thought had been missing in general in the art profession that new artist had to jump through too many hoops and convince too many people that their work was worthy of showing and sometimes that became just a matter of luck. And right time, right place. And I designed finding quotes exhibition, space. I wanted to design a space for artists and where they would bring their ideas as well as their work and they could be assured. Their work will be shown.

07:30 Over the course of that twenty years. Do you know how many artists submitted their work for display?

07:37 That must have been a lot cuz they helped a man. Thanks to you Roy. There were more than 10,000 and a people just don't believe that when I use that simple figure. Another thing that that astounded artist especially was we averaged about 30,000, visitors annually. So every year and artist could imagine that, they would have a piece of that large viewership, and that's more than most galleries can promise. We had eyes on Ark from all over the world.

08:16 Well, you know, you benefited from a number of things, in terms of it. A lot of Rochester Ariens work on Art after their day jobs, when I found all you discover all the art clubs and things that's right. Rochester has more artists probably more working artist than most cities and one reason why, of course, is our close connection to Eastman, Kodak and photography everybody in Rochester is a photographer. Everybody is

08:56 And we have lots of painters. You've often said about you run into more water colorist than you could even imagine. And we did have a lot of Beautiful Pain. See you in the end, a lot of paintings and that I kind of remember of all of the artists we had in one way. It was kind of low-key Sheraton Convention.

09:22 Came in, from Kodak news, transitioning to being his own photographer and he was doing those lovely panorama's. And you did that enormous, 8 ft long, panorama on derenne in the winter and he gave you a copy of The Hangover the visitors. The pontiff Ren is, of course, the bridge that overlooks the waterfalls and it's a pedestrian bridge, so our visitors and artists alike could walk out there and do the waterfall from a safe distance, but an amazing amazing view. The pain to rent a horse was named for our sister city in France, that's been associated with us for more than 50 years.

10:11 No, we said that the waterfall, of course, kind of built-in viewership for us, because people would come to see the waterfall and then they would read or find out that there was a visitor center nearby, and they would come in and explore, and they were happy to explore sometimes just to get out of the Heat or the snow, but you always accuse me of boasting too much. Oh, yeah, always had been there. Any, welcome to the center with Bam, by the way, the cleanest restrooms and we had information, and we had convenience all Under One Roof X. You are one of the few places to get Rochester.

11:05 Souvenirs to souvenirs, that's for sure. And I little souvenir shop became famous for small souvenirs, that could fit in a suitcase.

11:25 Including copies of the artwork on the walls.

11:30 And,

11:32 They were tagged with that line. I love, which was so true gifts from Rochester, the city. That's crazy about itself. We call the Rochester area. Remember? Yeah, you created your own line. It has your own line of stuff going there as well.

11:57 I sent my real favorite was just the building across the street has been French's mustard and when they discovered instead of grinding spices to do mustard, they need a bigger space in movie cross the line of mustard Avenue, a guy named WR Perry, lots of building and did Boxx fabrication and manufacture. They were real gem. A wonderful wonderful crew of people and they did great things. They lined the inside of guitar boxes with green, felt. Remember that? That was one of their jobs and did the finishing for Godiva's. Chocolate, chocolate chips. I remember, they would give us the slip of the scraps of that for a while, because they knew the artist could come up with some wonderful. You remember the sea leaf.

12:57 Burlington factory next to them. I remember that the walls were like a foot and a half thick in there. And when the guys were renovating it, they just didn't know what to do with, how you going to get through a wall. They were wonderful. And today, that building is full of apartments and the the resume, sure. Do appreciate those thick walls because they have big window sills where they can put their displays and knick-knacks interesting because the old Perry Building before the loss when in

13:39 They still have the old shafts. They hadn't changed anything. They had, they had two shafts in the belts. I walked in and I watch the sky.

13:49 Bushel lace over a couple of feet. Grab a strap hanging from a shaft slip it on.

13:57 Set the machine turn it on to cut and then went to his next shop. I guess it hit ran on it. Ace the old-style current until they had to change it and before that it has been waterpower. They were they were working display of

14:21 The old machine Rochester. I was just

14:29 Remember the old Flour Mill, the last standing Flour Mill in Rochester is still standing restaurant in a different restaurant. We always used to go over there after openings and have a libation together. And now I think it's a, I think it's a tattoo parlor.

14:51 Could be now then there's if there's also the old water wheel from the Old triphammer Forge where they made tools and they put a new replica wheel in there and overshot wheel. It's still there an absolutely gorgeous discovered. What was the wheel ditch and that's how they discovered it. That was wonderful. I I loved our neighbors and wasn't it. Convenient wonderful to be right across the street from wxxi NPR public radio and television is right in the historic district.

15:37 Well, that's art. We digress, tell me somebody you remember. And I bet you, I can tell what work they submitted.

15:46 Well, you know, like I said, I've already pitched Sheridan. You would should have come to mine, a lot sooner. Jackie German. Now. Oh my gosh, that was easy for me. Cuz that was a beautiful piece of work. That brought her into my world and it was called the fell. It was a enormous graphite drawing of a god. Some people call it a felony. If she was created by Zeus and she was a female cloud and she was built like a cloud. She was Rollie Pollie Brown fluffy pillows. It was she was just a beauty and she got us front page, press in the Democrat and Chronicle. The local donut paper, because there were some, there was some controversy regarding should the city's Art Gallery, be showing nudes.

16:46 Yeah, but as I recall half of the people at least half of the people who saw just saw clouds beautiful, but she's she's ray line drawing standing in the corner. She's a Beauty. I'm still is we still 3 ft by 5 ft. It was enormous and absolutely beautiful.

17:20 I think the show happened was it maybe before I knew, I'm not sure the Tyshawn Caldwell. Tyshawn Caldwell was a good loving, 10 year old boy, you know, I will never forget them.

17:38 He was shot and killed while riding his bike in his driveway.

17:43 And his work was hanging on our walls, Public Public elementary schools in downtown. I took his work off the wall and I walked it up to the newspaper office and they published it the next day.

18:08 It really helped to shine a light. Just on one boy, but the safety of all of our children. And in all of our neighborhoods, we started a poster campaign. The added to that light. And I don't know if you realize this Roy, but in the last couple of weeks, they've renamed one of the City's community center's after Tashan Caldwell, lot of good, but you showed a lot of student student code 679, students a club of young photographers, Junior, High photographers, and I showed them next to you, you were one of my vendors.

19:03 As a matter of fact, as a matter of fact, you laugh now, but I wasn't laughing. When you brought me a 23 ft, long black and white photograph.

19:14 It was gorgeous. It was multiple exposures. Right? Was it a whole roll?

19:26 Several times. I know that the material to the fellow who printed it.

19:37 Mike Egger Michael Hager and he told me that the material was similar to milk bottle plastic. So I think everybody could understand that that nice surface and that durable surface photograph to several pieces, overlap of cardboard to keep its stiff. And then I could fish line it to our hanging system and it covered an entire wall. It was absolutely gorgeous. Asked me about somebody else.

20:23 Back to things like Shannon, Williams and made them fantastic. I remember seeing a painting sick with impasto of a Royal typewriter, that looked more gorgeous than a crystal chandelier. I remember seeing a picture that she did a gorgeous oil painting, where Jesus was sitting in her kitchen, playing bridge at the kitchen table. And I think with her mother in that portrait in the King of Diamonds,

21:09 Which reminds me that I commissioned a portrait one time. And then I had to go on a road trip with your father and then I couldn't get you to go over and have to be at Janet's house so she could show you what she done and I was stuck in Florida and the painting was done and you helped me. I had a wonderful portrait of myself floating down the, Missouri.

21:40 And you were in The Portrait. And so was my father. And so is my dog. It was just wonderful. And in the meantime submitted and Gabby got in the most prestigious local show we had. And I just stood by that whole evening.

22:01 And listen to people comment on it was wonderful. I had a great time at night.

22:13 So,

22:16 What is what about the gallery when it closed?

22:23 That was a sad time, you know, the city. Rightly hoped that if they built a beautiful Visitor Center with the right attractions, that would bring more people downtown and that's absolutely what happened.

22:39 They close the gallery.

22:42 They closed the Bookshop, the souvenir shop.

22:46 That was inside the visitor center when every other building in the district had been rented or sold or leased. So that was really, it was done. We attracted new life to the old district and it was time for us to go.

23:05 I remember saying goodbye to the gallery with a show that we called reunions because we made it open to everyone that had ever exhibited work there. So we had an enormous response. I remember asking you to sit at the front door and count. The people that came in a Beka for your boy. I couldn't possibly count the door, never closes. They just keep streaming in. I think we told the city that night that there were between 13 and 1500, people that came to say goodbye to us.

23:58 It was really quite spectacular.

24:01 It was lovely.

24:08 And what else did you do that? You know, I know that I had to sweep the place up, but what did you do?

24:16 Sweeping and packing boxes.

24:21 My mind that I didn't want to go looking for a job. I was not ready to retire and I sure didn't want to go home and sit and think about how sad it was to see the place closed. So I picked a job, Rochester Art Supply. I knew the fellow that owned it. I call them up on the phone. And I said you have to hire me. They listened. So I've been working for them part-time now for 8 years.

24:58 I figured if anybody could benefit from all the artists that I had met at the gallery that maybe a nice art supply store would welcome them to

25:10 And that's exactly what happened. So for eight years, I've been selling paint and pastels mostly though. They call me the Ambassador and I stay near the door near the brushes. And I welcome everybody into the store. Make sure they get helped then we talked about their art, then we looked at their art on our iPhones and then we talked about the kind of supplies that might help them develop their ideas even more.

25:42 Yeah, well, if you don't ask.

25:46 There's the way that old-fashioned Emporium set up, you can hunt for days. It's true. Distance is in a historic building itself. It has a we'd like to say, it has a six-story addict and so the showrooms they have to show rooms, but those are just the tip of the iceberg. The bulk of their stock is up stairs, and upstairs, and up, stairs, and upstairs, and even higher, and it's a wonderful place to go searching for supplies. And boy, our customers, ask a lot of questions, and we really have to be sharp to learn the stock, we have, but I think my my new happy place.

26:33 Would be right here. Where were talking Flower City Arts Center. It's another Community Center.

26:41 At our fingertips, we have

26:45 Ceramics.

26:47 Photography printing in Boca Raton.

26:54 Letterpress Ed Sheeran screen printing. Linoleum taking so many classes here. I've taken watercolor and drawing and oil painting and Letterpress, and urban sketching. And what else? Half of the stuff for making with you. I'm taking a lot of lot of things. Just with you in the paperwork, in the back and really loved it.

27:34 And what have you been doing?

27:37 Papermaking, and

27:42 A kind of marble and I'm trying to get the hang of Suman. The gachi.

27:50 Maybe we can do some of that later today. What's the project you're working on?

27:57 Getting enough images to do my calendar page in book cards for Flower City and stuff. Mostly made up out of the renters and stuff. This start on the decade ago.

28:19 So, everybody takes their talents and makes a a particular kind of a page Powell photopolymer.

28:34 And things like that. What's your month?

28:38 November What will what will we see in November? If I look in November, what might I see.

28:48 A color background in Wood type.

28:53 Printed over at psychedelic not entirely with the Japanese had mine.

29:12 Psychedelic November psycho, turkey project is a class with 26 different teachers at last an entire year in encaustic painting pigment and wax. You just have to tune in. That's true. It's teachers from all over the world. And right now I come into floor, Flower City Monday, afternoons, and I work in the studio space here, with other encaustic artists and we have a blast. I'm working on mixing watercolor shellac-based ink and encaustic. I'm taking photographs from around the city of Rochester and doing impressions of them.

30:12 Who's Boomer, whatever you a lot more obscure as a process?

30:23 Let me know. The only one I ever heard of was Jasper Johns. And now, I text her is easy to bill. You can incorporate all kinds of materials into the paint, loads of fun. Did you continue making art during the pandemic?

30:49 I made a lot of paper. You did. What kind of papers did you make cotton fibers? I tried plant want to get back trying to do plants. I eat ride collard greens, not an overall, and not entirely successful more decorative than you, then you couldn't, you wouldn't print on that stuff. I must admit that.

31:22 Isolation for for artist is not so isolating as their normal process is because a lot of our normal process is about planning thinking drawing execution of of a plan might involve others, but that's not even always true. Until I got the time and suddenly we were faced with

31:53 End of it all. Well, I think that's true. And I think for me the time that I had to make art was glorious. I feel like

32:06 I was ready to embrace change and I'm still ready to make art for a lifetime. How about you?

32:13 I don't know. I'm much more.

32:21 Skeptical of the word are you know, I can just call it. Try, whatever. I mean I make multiple. I'm not just making one sheet. I make 50.

32:37 Can I love them all the same or you know, you keep blaming me cuz I hand out samples. Like, I'm giving my kids away and I think you'd have to agree. It's something that we can do for a lifetime.

32:55 Yes. Yes, then. Why don't we go marble some paper?

32:59 It could be done. It's a pleasure Roy to have talked to you today about part of the Walk that we have walked.

33:09 Well, that was a bit of it. I want, I'm still wanting to send Sue uncensored version, but I'll wait for another day.

33:24 Thanks Roy.

33:27 Okay. Thank you, Sally.