Sarita Mehta and Amanda Coombs

00:00 My name is Amanda Coombs. I am 27 years old. Today's date is June 10, 2022. I'm recording in San Francisco, California, and my partner is Sarita. And if I did not say your name correctly, please correct me.

00:21 You got it. Hi, my name is Sarita Mehta. I'm 21 years old to. Today's date is June 10, 2022, and I'm recording in Austin, Texas, and my partner is Amanda.

00:34 Great. So the first question I want to ask each of you is, what made you sign up for a conversation, and what are you hoping to get out of the experience? I can drag one first. I signed up, so I had heard about these conversations in a workshop that I did at the Tom Tom Founders festival this past spring, and we got to do kind of like a mini version live with a partner. And I really loved the conversation that I had and that other people were having, so I thought it'd be really neat to take it a step further and do one of these. I also really believe strongly in the work that you all are doing and trying to do this work to find common ground. I think that that is really necessary for the state of the world today. So would love to just be a small part of that.

01:28 Yeah, I guess similar to you, Amanda. I agree completely with, like, the importance of just talking to people and getting to know them, irrespective of our differences. So that kind of led me to want to do this. And then at UVA, so I just graduated, but this past year, I was pretty involved with the Karsch Institute of Democracy, and I studied politics. So I've heard a lot about this program and initiatives like that. And so I think it's a really important step. And, like, I've always been someone that, like, I've always been willing to talk to anybody, regardless of who they are. That was the way I was raised, so I thought it'd be cool to get involved and see what the experience is like and see if there's something I could learn. I mean, I'm sure I'll walk away from this learning something, so that's kind of why I wanted to do this.

02:08 Awesome. Well, I just have one last question before I'll hop off camera, and that is, we ask all of our participants to take a minute to put themselves in their partner's shoes before kind of kicking off the bulk of the conversation. So I'm going to ask that you each take a couple minutes to read out what your partner wrote about themselves. So, reading out what your. What the bio reads and then for the next few minutes, if you have any questions immediately from what they wrote, I encourage you to ask them, and then you can start working your way through the list of questions on our prompt sheet. So I'll pass it over to you all now. Cool. I'll go first. So, hi, my name is Sarita, and I'm a fourth year at UVA studying politics here. I live in Austin, Texas, but grew up in Wheeling, West Virginia, until fourth grade. These two places are very different in ways that have shaped my understanding of America. My parents are immigrants and have faced a lot of challenges due to this, but they have a love of this country and what it represents in a normative sense. This burned my interest, my strong interest in understanding people's identities and national identity.

03:28 All right, I'll read yours. I grew up in Williamsburg, Virginia. I was raised by a single mom and took care of my younger brother. I studied psychology at UVA because I'm fascinated by people and systems. I moved to New York City after graduating and worked at a beauty company for three years. Currently, I head operations at an edtech nonprofit. I'm relentlessly curious, empathetic, and driven. I'm passionate about women's rights, sustainability, and mental health. And the mountains are on the water is my favorite place to be. All right, so then I guess we just go from there, asking questions, right?

04:05 I think so.

04:06 That's cool. Okay. I actually studied at UVA. I did. I studied politics, but I did a bunch of social psychology research. Like, that was my favorite thing I did at UV, and I think for the same reason as you is fascinated by people and systems and how we perceive each other was the coolest part. I absolutely love social psychology, and that was kind of like, what led me to it. But I was wondering if. Did you have, like, a similar experience with that?

04:37 Yeah. That's so interesting. I. So I wish I had done more research while I was there. I didn't do a ton outside of, like, what I had to do for my classes. And when I look back, that's always something I wish I'd done more of because I think it's so interesting. But, yeah, I decided to become a psych major just because I really didn't know what else to do. And it was the most interesting to me because I was so curious about, particularly back then. I was really curious about families and family systems because mine had been. I always felt different from other people around me. And then when I got to Uva, too, I was trying to just kind of understand my own identity and psychology was kind of a way to do that. And then, like, the second reason was that I was interested in education reform, and there were a lot of, like, developmental psychology classes and stuff. So it was, like, a good way to learn about that.

05:33 Yeah, we're actually, like, we have very similar interests, I think, because I. So my last year at UVA, I served on the board of visitors and was really involved in a lot of the, like, behind the scenes stuff with education that, like, as a student, I don't think you really realize, like, everything that goes into, like, a, like, your curriculum, b, your experience with the system, like, how it's structured. Like, I just never realized, like, those are all choices that you can, like, change. And, like, you know, I took it all for granted. Like, this is how school is everywhere, which is just not true at all. And I started to realize that my fourth year at UVA. And it's so fascinating because I think education, like, my parents are immigrants, and they've always stressed, like, education is everything. It's something nobody will ever take from you. And I think that's, like, a very immigrant, like, mindset, but it's something I've never, like, really examined. But the older I've gotten, the more I've seen the role of education. And just, like, where you are in society, how you view others, how you understand yourself, like, it is such a huge piece of, like, everything. And I don't think people truly realize, like, the effects of it. And so that's something I'm really interested to, is education reform and understanding it. So that's cool. Like, I would love to hear more about, you know, what you're doing in SF now, because you said you work at an edtech nonprofit, so that seems really interesting. And, like, what led you there.

06:48 Yeah, so my. My current situation is kind of unique, I guess. I'm in San Francisco right now for travel, but I live in Seattle, but I work, my office is based out of Charlottesville, actually, and we work with UVA students. It's called forge. We were formerly hacks evil. We rebranded in all of 2020. So if you've heard of that, that's who we are. But we've expanded a lot. That was kind of the best thing that came out of COVID for us was that we were able to, we had to move all of her programming online and then realized, like, oh, this actually is better. And we'd always wanted to expand outside of uva because, as you and I both know, it's. It's kind of a bubble. Um, when you're thinking about the students that you're working with, and we always thought there'd be a ton of value and having more diversity and different perspectives and experiences and all of that. So we still are probably, like, 75% uvA, but then have started to expand to other schools. Um, and, like, most of what we do is online now.

07:52 Gotcha. That's really interesting. Do you think, like, do you want to stay there long term or is there, like, changes in the education system you, like, more actively want to pinpoint and stuff?

08:03 Yes. There's so much I have a lot of thoughts on, and I'd love to hear yours, too. I have a lot of thoughts on, like, early childhood education in particular, because once I learned about, like, how formative those years are, literally, like, on your brain and body, it's just this window of time that closes and you don't hit certain milestones, then it's just almost impossible to catch up for the rest of your life, which is completely unfair, I think. But what I'm doing right now is more in the secondary education realm, and we focus on teaching tech skills, so things like how to code or just relevant technical skills and industry knowledge for the main industries within the tech industry, I guess. And. And we teach those things. And the. The main, like, mission behind what we do is making it more student centric and also, like, providing a space that's, like, accessible and low stakes and, like, free of any, like, fear of failure or that kind of thing, because it's really hard to learn those things in, like, a traditional institution without being, like, I'm going to have to, like, risk taking my GPA if I'm, like, really bad at cs or maybe I don't like it. And then I wasted credits, which are super expensive and time consuming, just to explore something I didn't even know if I was interested in. So that's kind of the main thing about what we're doing now.

09:36 That's interesting. I mean, so I went to. I grew up in West Virginia and then moved to Austin, and I went to Westlake High School, which is, like, a really good public high school. Like, and it's, like, a pretty wealthy area. Like, I remember in. So I went to middle school and then high school in Austin in, like, 6th grade, 7th grade, they gave everybody, like, iPads and, I mean, like, when you're a kid, I guess, like, when you're a kid, you don't really realize, like, all the differences in education and stuff. And so we moved from West Virginia because my oldest brother was about to go in high school, and the high school there is, like, not. It's not a good education system at all. It's public education. And so my mom was like, we're going to move to Austin. We have some family here, but the public system is really solid in Austin. And she was like, I want you all to go to a good school system. And I didn't understand that as a kid. I was like, I don't want to leave. My friends are here. The ice cream truck I love is here. I was so mad. And now looking back, I'm like, that move makes sense. But it's also just sad that the difference between the high school I went to in Austin versus the one in wheeling and how different my life probably would be if I had. If we had stayed in West Virginia is, like, crazy. A, just off, like, the quality of education, but b, just, like, the confidence and, like, sense of self and assuredness in the world that you have. Like, I. Like, everybody around me at Westlake, like, going to college was never a question. Like, you always assume, like, you can make a difference in the world. Like, opportunities are yours if you work hard enough. And, like, the older I've gotten, the more I realized, like, that is a huge privilege, actually, to, like, take that for granted. And, like, especially at Uva, like, there's a lot of really wealthy, privileged kids. Like, and it is, like you said, it's a huge bubble. And I always think about my friends in West Virginia, and, like, I'm able to realize, like, this perspective that most of the people around me have is, like, a very, very small portion of the way the world is. And so, like, I'm able to see people who don't have the same opportunities that I've been fortunate to have with, like, understanding, whereas some people, just to write them off as, like, lazy or, like, they didn't work hard enough. And, like, that always sits so wrong with me because I'm like, you don't realize, like, so much of it is, like, the context. It's like, the fundamental attribution error. Like, it's not their disposition. It's like, what's going on. And that's something I've always, like, butted my head against in college, is realizing, like, you don't realize, like, everything that you've been given or, like, the opportunities you've had just off of, like, where you're born or, like, where you live, because education systems are so different, and, like, it's a really hard problem to solve, I think, because it starts in the very beginning, like, tracking and, like, the schools you go to. But it's. It just, like, exponentially makes the divides even bigger and bigger the older you get. And that's, like, something I really saw at Uva that, like, really bothered me, I guess. I don't know.

12:25 Yeah, that's so true. It makes me think of this analogy I heard the other day. I'm going to butcher it. But it was something about, like, it's easier to cross the river at its start or at its source.

12:37 Yeah.

12:38 Than anywhere else. And it's exactly that. Like, it's just everybody kind of does have somewhat of an equal footing in the beginning. Obviously got to account for a lot of different variances of things that might be out of your control, but for the most part. And then there's just such a big divergence as you get further and further into your life, and that can show in so many different ways. I'm curious, because you mentioned your parents, obviously. I mean, the. The decision to move to a completely different state and start a new life, I imagine maybe that impacted their jobs and obviously, your social circle and community, and selling a house, buying a house, all of that is so much. That's a big decision to make. All because of education or primarily because of education. What do you think instilled that in them to make it such a huge priority?

13:33 Yeah, I mean, I think, like, so. But my dad is from India. My mom was born here, but lived most of her, like, young adult life in India, and then came back and, like, I think, like, they. So my dad specifically, like, he's. They're both doctors, and he was a doctor in wheeling, and he would always face, like, a lot of, like, racism. Like, they denied him licenses to do certain procedures and practice and stuff like that just simply because, like, he was, like, it was a predominantly white, conservative city or town. My dad has, like, a really thick accent, obviously is an immigrant. And so I think my dad realized, like, no matter what, like, education is kind of the one thing, like, nobody can take away from you. Like, regardless of, like, your background, race, religion, beliefs, whatever. Like, education is always, like, unquestionable. And so I think they just, like, really hammered that into us when we were young. And he, like, believed in. He believes in the american dream, and, like, if you are educated and work hard, you can really make it. Whether that's true or not today is a whole different question. But, I mean, he grew up, like, nearly starving in India, worked his way to be a successful doctor here, and so he's always believed in that. And so I think that kind of has always pushed them to believe in the power of education, to make you, to situate you in a way to help other people and to help your family and help your kids and stuff. And so I think that's kind of why the impetus for us to leave wheeling was so strong for my parents. And so, I mean, I didn't understand it, but looking back now, I realize, like, why they sacrificed what they did for education and, like, the huge ramifications it has now, even though, I mean, it is a huge change, kind of up and move across the country, basically. But I think that's kind of why they really believe in the power of education in America. And I think that still holds true, though maybe decreasingly. I don't know. Like, upward mobility is less and less.

15:34 Of a thing, but, yeah, that's so interesting. It makes so much sense. But I had never totally thought about it in that framing of, like, it's something that nobody can take away from you. You can make judgments about me based on all of these external things, but, like, I have this degree, and you can't argue with that. Like, that's really interesting. And I think, unfortunately, like, very different for people. I think people that are, like, from America and in, I guess, in certain social circles really take that for granted. Like, just. It's like, going to college is just, like a box that you check. It doesn't matter where you go. Like, have a good time will help you get a job when you're done is, like, the vibe I think a lot of people have. But that's not true for everybody because I think it's, like, people who are first generation college students. Like, I'm not one. My parents went to college, but understand that. Like, I think. I don't know. I think that they place a lot more, like, importance and value and, like, have more respect, like, how powerful that is. But, like, I don't know how is that, because obviously, you have a different perspective of, like, you grew up here and then going from West Virginia to a really good school in Texas, and then Uva, which is its own bubble of least as we've talked about. Like, what's your view on education now?

17:05 No, I mean, it's interesting. Like you said, exactly the point you made about, like, for so many people, it's like, oh, college is just, like, a given. Like, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna have a good time. Yeah, that's just, like a hoop I have to jump through. Like, that's the routine. And that's definitely, like, the mentality of, of the folks at Westlake and in Austin, I think my high school. But I, it's, it's interesting now because I think, like, for a lot of jobs, increasingly, like, that's kind of the mentality is, like, everybody should have a college degree. Like, the, it's a, it's a more and more, I think an expectation for a lot of employers is, like, you have to have a college degree while it's getting more expensive, while, like, inequality and wealth is growing. So it's like, almost this, like, like, just this horrible, like, predicament that it's, like, harder to afford, harder to get to, more competitive, but more people are kind of expecting it. And so, like, the divide of the people that have access to and have the resources, like, opportunities go to, the better high schools are able to do that while the people are increasingly left behind with worse and worse jobs to look to after. And so, like, I think, like, the education system and, like, just society at large is reaching this almost, like, really critical tension point where, like, so many divides in our nation, whether it's, like, ideology, wealth, like material well being, education, access, like, they're all kind of coming to fruition and this, like, terrifying, like, kind of storm, and it's like, something's got to change, something's got to give, because, like, like, I just, like, the future is not looking too great if we continue on this trajectory, which is, like, a really scary thought to have. And I think a lot of people kind of are starting to feel it in a way that, that. No, but, like, people haven't in a long time, but I don't know. And I think education really lies at the, the bedrock of a lot of it. But, I mean, I think about a lot of my friends at Uva, and they definitely take it for granted. And the sad thing is, like, so many of the people that come from privilege, like, they go to Uva and it's like, whatever, go to Uva, have a good time, they'll get a good job because, you know, they had a good degree. They probably have connections, resources. Like, they're not worried about their financial well being. They're surrounded, so they'll get a job. They're probably surrounded by people like that from similar backgrounds. They stay in this bubble, you know, they'll probably marry someone of a similar background, and then their kids will kind of repeat the cycle, like, over and over. And they never have to pause and think about all the other people that did not come from that same background did not enjoy the same privileges. And so, like, they never. They have no need, and I don't look down upon them for that because they really don't have any need to kind of step outside of their shoes and think about it because they never put in those situations. But it's like sometimes I just want to grab them and shake them and be like, do you realize, like, you are literally living in the smallest bubble ever? Like, but the fact is, like, they never really have to break out of it because they'll always kind of remain insulated. And, like, I don't know how you fix that, but I think the point of education, especially at a university, is to force you to really step outside of that. Like, for one moment, Elise, you're surrounded by people that are very different from you, and that's, like, a time to capitalize upon that. But I don't think Uva does the best job of doing that in many ways at all. I really don't think. I don't know.

20:29 I think it's a huge area for improvement. And even, like, coming down to, like, housing and stuff at uva, I think that would be, like, more of an equalizer. Like, if people had to live in, and a lot of schools do that. If you have to live in a dorm your entire, like, time in college, that keeps things a little bit more equal and you're around everybody because I think that's when, like, a big disparity starts is like, after second year and everybody's moving to different places. So that's just one. But yeah, I've so many thoughts on that. I did see the suggestion from Smirkda in the chat. So question three, let me see who has been the most influential person in your life and what did they teach you?

21:17 Damn, that is a good question. I think.

21:22 I just was thinking about this the other night because I'm reading the book atomic habits and.

21:28 Oh, is that good? I read, like, the first chapter, but it's amazing.

21:31 It's really good. But there's an exercise where you have to think about this. So I can try going first because just did it. Okay. So most influential person in my life, I think, is my grandpa, which is just interesting to me. So I, from him, I mean, in my life is my mom's dad. I spent a lot of time with my grandparents growing up. Like I said, I had a single mom for the majority of my childhood, and so they helped a lot with childcare and all that kind of stuff. He was always very stable and reliable and safe. And I think as I've gotten older, when I was younger, I didn't realize, like, what an impact that was making on me. But as I've gotten older, I realized that I miss that and, like, how much that meant to me and the importance of, like, at a young age, like, having people around that are just always consistent and predictable and reliable and that kind of thing. And I think in retrospect, looking at it now that I'm an adult, he sacrificed so much to always put family above a lot of his own stuff. Like, he did a really good job of kind of filling his own cup. Like, he had his own activities and things that he liked and he would make time to do those, which sometimes took away from time that I would spend with him, but he would, I don't know, he was very good at just kind of, like, taking care of himself so that he could take care of everybody else and then also sacrificing on some of the other stuff that helped us to have more. Whether it was, like, his time saying no to certain things so that he could spend time with us or financially. He was always, like, a support system for that kind of thing. And, uh, it just meant a lot to me. And he's still alive, but he has a really severe dementia, so, um. Yeah, yeah, I think I would choose him.

23:47 Well, he seems like a fantastic person, so thank you for sharing that with me. I guess, um, that is a tough question. I mean, I feel like the order you get, kind of, like, what you're saying, like, the order you get, you look back like, you realize, like, it takes a village. Like, there's so many. Like, everything I've done is, like, because of, like, 15 other people. Like, you do not, like, there's nothing I do that I did alone. Like, and I think it's like, the older you get, you really do realize, like, the impacts little things have that go so far. I think. I think I have two. Like, so the first, I guess, is a person I. That's influenced me just by, like, watching them, I guess. Like, so that's my. I think my mom has been influential to me, but not, like, in a direct way, but just, like, the older I get, the more I realize, like, living and seeing. So she, like, the sacrifices she made for me and my brothers, like, in some pretty tough situations, have really shown me, like, the power of, like, I think family. Like, she is, like, a very strong, independent women has always, like, kind of taught me the importance of, like, make sure you can support yourself, like, always, you know, like, she's always hammered. Like, when you're choosing between what is easy and, like, what is right, always do what is right. Like, walk a straight line. Like, there's just, like, certain principles and values that she lives by, like, no matter what. And I think seeing. Just seeing that growing up in a subconscious way has really shaped the way I, like, think about things and the kind of person I am. Like, I'm a very, like, I stick by my principles, like, no matter what. And I think that's because of my mom. And so that, I think has had kind of, like, a subconscious influence on me. And just being grateful for the people in your life and, like, realizing the sacrifices that family makes for you is, like, really incredible. And I wish I had appreciated it more when I was younger, but I think that's just, like, the sad fact of life. And I think the second one that was, like, a more direct influence on me was I had a politics professor my second year. It was a seminar, and I'm usually really, really shy in class. I never talk in seminars. I'm like, I sound like an idiot. I'm not gonna raise my hand, but I loved. I never studied politics in high school, but I loved it so much, I would go to his office hours, like, a million questions in one day. He just snapped. And it's like, why do you keep coming to office hours with these questions? Like, you should be asking these in classic. I love that you're here and you're talking, but, like, say this in class. Like, you should be like, you never talk, like. And he was like, like, I don't know why you don't. Like. And I was like, I don't want to sound stupid, like. And he was like, I don't know why you don't see, like, the. Like, see, like, the importance of your questions and that you're a great student, and, like, I was, and so you would, like, call on me and kind of, like, coach me up and, like, in office hours, you, like, really? Like, I don't know. He saw something in me that I didn't see in myself as a student, as a person, I think, and I didn't have much confidence, and, like, he really, like, believed in me. Like, pushed me to apply for those. I'm in the politics honors program, where I was. Pushed me to apply for that. Like, was just, like, always rooting for me every step of the way, and, like, really made me a far more confident person and student. And, like, I think had I not had that, I would be in a very different place today. So I'm really fortunate for. For that too. And I think that had a big impact on me, like, at a really crucial point in my life. Like, I think having mentors, like, I've been fortunate to have some pretty good mentors at my time at UVA. It has, like, a really big impact to have someone that just, like, believes in you and that you can, like, look to unwaveringly. Like, that is such a huge thing to have that kind of support, whether it's in family or in friends or teachers or I, whatever bosses, co workers, like, that has go so far. And I think that's, like, probably been, like, I guess building off that question probably been the most impactful thing of my time at Uva. Has been, like, the people that have, like, that I've been able to, like, lean on and, like, rely on and look to, like, made a huge difference. But I guess, like, so I guess that question back to you is, like, what do you think was, like, the most impactful thing about your time at Uva, whether it's, like a person or a class or experience? And that's a hard question.

28:07 No, it is a hard. So I'll be honest. I love to hear about your professor and, like, the mentorship that you got, and I think that is so important. And I did learn that lesson while I was at Uva, but kind of in the inverse, because I never had anybody I felt like was really a mentor to me. Like, con of being a psychology major. Is that all your classes are, like, minimum 150 people? I had a handful of really, really small ones, but it wasn't like my fourth year, so I didn't know my professors very well, and I conveniently had to call out uva, but every advisor I was assigned was actually on sabbatical. So I never really. And I was like, I don't know how to fix this. So I felt kind of, like, unanchored for a lot of my time there. I didn't really know what I wanted to do and how to figure that out and all of that. And it was actually when I went to Hackville now forge when I went there for the first time. And it was just like this free form, you know, classic people writing on whiteboards, like, talking about making a startup and, like, debating and ideating all these buzzwords I'd never, like, I'd heard. I don't know what they mean. And I ended up taking my first class there, which was like an education innovation course, and it was just taught by other students who were doing that kind of work. And we learned about what was going on in education, innovation, different organizations, and, like, people that were working on it. And I helped to write a grant for Albemarle county schools to XQ schools, which was this big fund from Laurene Powell jobs. And we didn't win the grant, and, you know, that didn't end up working out, but the whole exercise was really fun, and it was the first time that, like, you're saying I. Other people saw something in me that I hadn't seen, and I realized, like, oh, this is. This is what I'm passionate about. And it instilled a lot of confidence and kind of lit a fire of creativity in me as well to start seeking out other stuff like that. And that's how I ended up getting involved with Tom Tom organization and my first internship, and all this stuff just started from there. But I needed that, that boost of, like, inspiration and confidence to get started there.

30:42 Yeah, definitely. It goes, like, such a long way. I think, like, I think the confidence piece of it is really important, too, is, like, I don't know, it's tough to believe in yourself without other people kind of, like, on your side. And, like, I definitely fall prone to, like, imposter syndrome. I think everybody does. Like, it would be bizarre if you just never, ever questioned yourself. Like, I think that's crazy, but I think having people on your side goes really far away at a university. And, like, I, like, read. So I remember this, like, right before I went to college, I was reading some article, and it was written by this, like, dean or someone at a college. I don't remember what. And he taught. He was talking about, like, the valley of education or something. And he wrote, like, this line, like, changed how I thought about college. He was, like, in the myth of, like, I'm botching this. Also in the myth of prometheus or whatever, the gods didn't give prometheus the fire. He stole it. Like, a good education at a university isn't given. It's taken. And then he, like, talked about how, like, you. Like, you can't expect to, like, like, the way to get the best out of education is, like, go to the office hours, ask questions. Like, put yourself out there. Like, take the education. Like, it's not gonna fall into your lap. Like, just because you're at uva doesn't mean you're gonna get the best of the education. And, like, I read that. I guess I was really fortunate to read that, like, right before I left for Uva, and I was like, you know what? Like, I'm going to take it. Like, I'm going to get the most out of this. So, like, I always sought people out to learn from them. And I think you can learn a lot from just talking to a professor. I realized, like, I learned more probably from talking to the professors, like, in office hours or talking to older students than I did in the lecture. Like, I honestly can't tell you the names of the classes I took first year. Like, I really. Not even third year, honestly. But I could tell you, like, the pieces of wisdom that the professors pass down to me. Like, the little things like that is what sticks with me. Like, I mean, I graduated less than a month ago, and I forgot most of the lessons. Like, actual, like, details. Like, I can't tell you much about, like, the politics of sub saharan Africa anymore, but I can tell you, you know, the story of my professor's life and what that meant to me. But so I think that's, like, an interesting piece of it as well, is, like, it always comes back, I think, to the people around you, the people that you're engaging with more so than anything else.

33:02 Yeah, such a good point. I love that quote, and I wish I had heard that, too.

33:09 Yeah, I was lucky to have read that.

33:12 Yeah. So pivoting more to political and ideological identities.

33:23 And if any other ones have shaped it.

33:26 So, yeah, I guess, in a few words, how would you describe your political or, slash, ideological identity?

33:33 I'm definitely, like, left of the center. I would say I'm pretty, like, moderate, but left leaning, I guess. Yeah. What about you?

33:48 I was going to say the same thing. I, left of center, I believe strongly in. Well, there's a few issues, I think, that are just really hard for me to negotiate on, I guess. And so for me, that's abortion for the most part, and then also just, like, basic civil and human rights, like equal access to voting, everything, regardless of religion, race, gender, sexual identity, all of that kind of stuff. And so I think those two usually come first for me and then feel really strongly about investing in social programs like education. And I think that there's a lot more that we could be doing for mental health in the country. So that's typically, like, all of that comes before foreign policy, all of that kind of stuff for me, even though I know it's very important, but it's just hard for me to move past that. I think memorable events that shaped those for me are most likely my own. Just my experience, like, we've talked about a lot in the education system. I went to a school, my, all of my kindergarten, not kindergarten, elementary, middle and high school. There was a lot of, like, difference in socioeconomic status and background, kind of like the full range of people. And I started to notice just, like, how different that started to look as we got older and older and especially with going to college. There were a lot of people who did not go to college and never planned to and had a lot of responsibilities to just go work and, like, they were paying rent when we were in high school. And then, you know, people who were going to college and didn't have to take out a student loan and everything in between. And I think that I just, again, don't think that that is fair. And so, like, investing more in education and social programs to help that change, I think is important. And then also, I think just growing up with a single mom, we were very lucky to have access to resources. And like I said, my grandparents were always around as, like, free childcare and helped with certain things. But that is not the case for so many single parents. And more often than not, women are, you know, have to take on that burden and then aren't in the job force. And, like, all of these domino effects. And there's just so little support for women in that situation. And so I just feel really strongly about women having the right to choose that for themselves, which obviously wasn't the situation my mom was in, but so many women are, and then just having more support for that people that are in that situation. So I don't know if I'm doing the best job of articulating that, but.

37:07 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think I share in a lot of that, too. I mean, I think I'm really cynical about a lot of things, which can be hard at times. But like you said, I think so much of, I think the divide between liberal and conservative viewpoints on social issues specifically is so rooted in, like, your experiences. And it's hard for people that have never seen, like, the disparities in the, in society and, like, the ramifications that has for your life experience and the opportunities you have, like, people that have never seen that. Like, it's hard to really fathom, like, what that looks like, what that feels like and, like. So I'm always cynical because I'm, like, not cynical. I'm always, like, weary of it or pessimistic about because it's, like, hard for you to meet to imagine, like, how people that are maybe super conservative on those issues because they've never kind of seen, like, the effects that have, like, how they can understand the other arguments, because they're never, like, we talked about before. Like, they're never really put in positions where they have to, and it doesn't really affect them. And so, like, I always kind of struggle with that. And I think similar to you, like, going from, I think probably the most impactful thing was going from a really underdeveloped, kind of, like, conservative small town in West Virginia to West Lake in Austin, Texas. Like, they're just very different places. And that transition, like, open has always made me acutely aware of, like, the very different experiences people have in this country off of things that are not in their control. And, like, my best friend from wheeling, like, we're still in touch. And, like, we were like that. Like, I would have probably been in the same place she is now. And, like, you know, I have her on Snapchat and Instagram or whatever, and, like, we just live very different lives. Like, she didn't go to college. She had to work an extra job. Like, she, like, had to go to rehab. Like, it just. We have very different life courses. And I think, yes, like, maybe I worked at harder in school or something, but, like, it's also because I went to Westlake and she stayed in wheeling. And, like, those kind of, like, experiences definitely have made me have a lot. I think a lot of what democracy requires, a lot of, like, liberal ideology requires empathy. And realizing, like, what is fair might take a little bit out of my cup for someone else, but so be it. Like, that is kind of the greater good. You have to think about the bigger picture. And so that's something that's always stuck with me. And then I think a big, like, I'll be honest. My. Both my parents, like, are not. And we get in, like, a lot of fights about it. Like, they're just not, like, super politically active. Like, I think that my dad has a very, like, head down. I'm gonna, like, he works crazy hours, but head down. Like, I'm doing my job. Like, and, like, they're immigrants. They just never were really plugged into, like, american politics. And so I was growing up, like, I never really was exposed to it. And so I think going to college, like, taking, like, classes in the politics department, like, opened my eyes to, like, and this is kind of hard to articulate, but, like, I don't know how to say that. Like, everything about society and, like, democracy, like, it's all, like, made up and, like, you can change it. I don't know if that makes sense. But, like. Like, that our democracy is really young. Like, it's, like, actually an experiment in politics. Like, the way we think about what's equal, what's fair, like, what freedom means. Like, these are all choices that we made. Like, none of this is, like, written in stone. Like, these are the laws of humanity. Like, it's all made up. And, like, what we think is equality, what we think is fairness, like, what we debate at the most fundamental level of politics. Like, that's, like, what I think lies at the difference between the left and right. And, like, that kind of really got me just, like, really interested in questions of politics where at first I, like, didn't really think about it in that sense. Like, I thought it was just really complicated policy I could never understand. Like, and that kind of got me interested in, like, the fundamental differences between, like, a left ideology and a right ideology and also made me be more empathetic, I think, to both sides is, like, you know, I think the flip side of me being kind of cynical and pessimistic about it all is also realizing, like, I don't write off people who have very different views from myself because I understand, like, hey, you probably had a lot of different experiences that led you to believe, like, what you believe. Like, there's always a why for the what, and let me understand that why before I judge you off what you believe. That's the kind of person I am. I don't think a lot of people do that because that takes time and, like, a lot of empathy and patience. But that. That's kind of the flip side of it is, like, I've always been a generous listener. I'm always willing to hear you out, and, like, there's probably something we have in common, even if we are very different on some big things. And so I guess that's kind of led me to believe what I believe, or I guess that's broader. Just like my outlook on politics in general is that way makes sense, and.

42:04 I like a lot. It's interesting, too, you've had such a, like, two extremes. If you just want to make, like, stereotypical judgments of, like, Virginia versus Texas and then Uva and then Austin is like, this little kind of blue dot in a big Red Sea. Is there anything that, like, or do you ever feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you and how? I'm sure the answer is yes, but I'm curious about that.

42:34 Yeah, it would be crazy if I said no. No, definitely. Definitely. I definitely feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs in myself and I think, like, a small. I guess a small example or the main example I always think about is, like, me being judged off the color of my skin, my race. That is always, like, before I even open my mouth, like, there's a judgment there. I think my parents have felt. Everybody in my family has definitely felt that, especially being in social situations that are all predominantly white. Uva is, like, a predominantly white space. I think there's an expectation about what I value, what I believe in, what I do. I think specifically with academics and education, it's like, oh, you probably are really good at school and, like, really smart and do all this, like, you know, stereotyping, like an indian person or whatever. I've definitely felt that. And so I think. But like I said, like, I'm a really forgiving person. Like, I think you can't blame. And maybe it comes from the psychology, too. Like, a lot of that stuff, like. Like the water and, like, the David Foster Wallace sense. Like, I think a lot of those missed I informed judgments aren't, like, malicious, but just, like, a product of society and the kind of people, like, what people are around. And, like, maybe I shouldn't be as generous because, like, if you don't say something or you're, like, okay with it, like, the behaviors and the judgments just kind of continue. But I think that's, like, the foremost one is just, like, the knee jerk, like, racial stereotyping that kind of undercuts how they view everything I say or do. And, like, I think that's kind of something I've struggled with a lot. But I think, like, a, learning to say something and b, having the patience to say it in a way that's not, like, super reprimandy goes a further way, if that makes sense.

44:33 That's so interesting. Yeah, I have so many thoughts on that. I do feel definitely misunderstood by people with different beliefs than me, I think. Yeah, I mean, I think it's tough when everybody has such personal values tied into stuff. You get so defensive, probably. I think often more so than you genuinely feel when it comes out, because you're just, again, trying to argue a point. But I think there's a lot of stereotypes about, like, to pick one, you know, with abortion rights, like, when a lot of times even people on the left talking about it that are pro choice, just talk about it in this way where it's like, oh, you know, let's make sure that 14 year old girls who make a mistake or who are raped or victims of incest, like, have access to this and it's like, yes, totally agree with that. And a 40 year old woman who has three kids who doesn't want to have another kid. 35 year old woman who found out that there are certain issues with the embryo or it's going to threaten her life, or just like the 25 year old who doesn't want to have a baby. There's a million reasons, and it's not anybody's place to make that decision because there's no social safety net or assistance for women, really, who to go through with that. And so that, I think, is always a little bit frustrating and difficult to explain to people who aren't women. I think often to understand that that's, like, one example, but I think that's a place to feel misunderstood. But I think the other thing you said that made me think about it is my race and being white. I think I'm now very conscious of being perceived as a Karen or saying something that would be Karen esque. I definitely have. And, like, what you were saying, especially when I got to Uva, is when I realized, like, oh, my gosh, I grew up in such a unique, like, environment where, like, my parents were used to be more conservative than they are now. And I grew up around a lot of conservative people, and there were not. There was not a lot of diversity other than, like, there were black people and white people, and there wasn't really any other in between. And so when I got to UVa was really the first time I got to know, like, indian people and chinese and, like, everything else. And I just realized there were so many assumptions I had about those that were not conscious, and I knew that they weren't true, but I was still thinking them or making them. And it was through my psychology classes that I learned, like, oh, it's not an undoable thing. It's just the way that, like, we tend to work is, like, humans want to find categories. Like, we want to know, like, if you walk into a restaurant, like, you sit down, you order, there's a menu, like, you want to know how things work to get through your day. But that can be. Have a really negative effect when you place that onto people or groups of people. So I, like, really trying to always be learning and unlearning and getting better about that stuff. But, yeah, I.

48:01 That's, like, that's so true. Is, like, I think psychology is, like. I mean, it's like, a great thing in the sense that, like, what you're learning, like, has such real effects on, like, how you view the world and understand yourself. But, like, the flip side of that is also, like, I especially, I don't know why, the fundamental attribution here. I'm always like, oh, my God, like, you know what I mean? Like, you're always, like, questioning everything you think, like, over and over and, like, it just makes, like, like, it's, it's, I mean, it's great, but it also puts a lot more work into everything you're thinking because I'm always like, oh, God, like, here goes a heuristic. Like, you know what I mean? Like, so it's funny. I totally get what you're saying because she said something in the chat. Are there issues or current events that you haven't quite formed an opinion on?

48:47 Oh, gosh.

48:50 I mean, yeah, there's probably a lot that I don't even know much about. It's hard also, I guess this isn't really answering that question but kind of off it is. Like, there's just, like, a, like, I think especially because of, like, like, social media and news is, like, there's just so much news constantly in, like, issues and things I don't know about, like, everywhere I look, like, on my phone, like, CNN alerts left and right. Like, the tv. Like, there's just, like, so much news that it's, like, really hard to, like, form your own opinion on things and be like, let me get the straight story of, like, what's happening. Like, it's just, like, let all these opinionated things that are, like. And it's like, I just want to read the facts and then figure out for myself. And, like, that is increasingly so hard to do. And, like, I try to be informed, but it also, like, puts me off of it a lot is because, like, I know that half of what I'm reading isn't the straight story. Like, and it's, like, cultivated in a way for a specific kind of person. And, like, that really bothers me. And also, I think a lot of it is, like, made attention grabby and, like, you know what I mean? Like, dumbed down in a way to get people to kind of read it. And, like, I hate that. Like, I just want to see the facts so I can figure it out and, like, that's, like, impossible to do. So that's kind of made me, like, start to, like, honestly read the news lesson less, which I shouldn't do, but, like, it just puts me off. Sometimes I'm, like, sometimes it's, like, so depressing. Like, just watch, like, my parents watch CNN, like, old. Like, it's, like, always playing when we're like sitting on the couch and I'm like, this is so depressing. Like, yeah, that doesn't answer the question. But just to say, like, I've kind of gotten put off of like really keeping up with a lot of stuff, which isn't good, but I need to think of a specific issue.

50:32 Yeah, I mean, but that is part of it. And I think it's something that our generation is talking about more because the sensationalization of the news is now just the news. And what do we, you know, it kind of happened over the span of our lifetime and before that, that, like we do have the power. Like you said, everything is very malleable. Like, we're just making things up as we go so we can change these institutions and media companies and make it so that they can't do that. I don't know if that's the right thing, but it is. Like yesterday, you know, it was all over the news that Fox decided not to air the January 6. Should they be allowed to do that because they're filtering the news. It's like we all filter that. They're all filtering the news except for probably like PBS, but nobody watches it because it's boring. So I think that's an interesting one. Yeah. I think I probably pay more attention to social issues than a lot of financial things. And so the first thing that came to mind with like I haven't formed an opinion is probably whats going on now with the Federal Reserve and inflation and the PP assistance that went out. We just created a lot of money that didnt exist and that is now having a lot of aftereffects on the economy. And im definitely not an expert there and I tried to be aware of it but that I don't totally understand and still forming an opinion on that. So I feel like a lot of that stuff gets buried underneath what to me feels like horrific. Like gun rights, climate change, women's rights, civil rights, like gay people in Florida. And I'm like, I can't even think about the economy.

52:28 Absolutely. And it takes a lot of legwork to understand any of the financial stuff. And I don't really have like a academic background on stuff. So it's like really hard for me to like wrap my head around. I think another one is like the antitrust stuff with like, I mean, I don't know. Amazon like scares the, scares me like, yeah, crazy. Like the, it's becoming like a monopsony where like it buys all, like it's a monopoly on buying as opposed to selling like, it just theory and, like, I don't know, I mean, I honestly really don't know too much about like the economic ramifications, but for some reason, it just feels like no company should have that much control over things. And like, I mean, like from Amazon, like my, what I know about it is, like a lot of stuff with, like the workers rights and the way they like regulate. Like, like that just is like inhumane. But, like, I don't know much about like the economic side of things and, like what it means to break up those kind of companies with antitrust laws and stuff. And I probably should know more about it because it has a really huge impact on, like literally every single person's life. Like Amazon. Like the amount of information and like, I don't know, it, that company scares me a lot.

53:40 Yeah, it makes sense. And, like, I think it's too, it's just like, I don't know. I think a lot of that stuff happens and if you don't really understand how it works.

53:49 Yeah.

53:50 It's easy to just let it all.

53:52 Yeah. And it's like, I love Amazon prime. Like, I can click a button and have like anything I ever wanted in my door in two days. That's awesome. And like, but also, like, that's so scary.

54:04 Yeah. Yeah.

54:08 So I don't know.

54:10 Hello. Hello. So we are coming towards the end of our time, which I always know. It goes so fast every time. So, blue guy, I wanted to ask, you know, we have a couple of questions that we kind of say for the end. So one is just, you know, did you have any kind of expectations about who your partner was and were those, did, were you surprised by anything or what is your kind of impression? Having now gotten the chance to get to know each other better?

54:47 I don't think I had, like, a huge expectation of how the conversation was going to go, going in just because I didn't know really what to expect. But I think it went, like a lot better. It was like a great conversation. I learned a lot and I walked away from it really appreciating, I guess appreciating what these conversations are about in a way that I hadn't before. So definitely, like, was a far more insightful and rewarding experience than I had thought going in.

55:19 Yeah, I really love how we have pretty different backgrounds just to, like, where we grew up, our family structure, like, all that kind of stuff. But I think we see you very eye to eye on a lot of different things, which is just nice to know, you know, like there's I don't know, so much diversity in this country, and there is a lot of common ground, kind of, regardless of your background. And I think that that was a cool opportunity and learned so much. And the Prometheus thing I will never forget, but I will be totally transparent. When I started reading your bio and I saw, like, West Virginia, Texas, I was like, this is going to be an interesting conversation, making an assumption about views of those states. And then when I saw that you noted that your parents were immigrants, I was like, hmm, it's probably less likely that conservative. And again, like, that would have been fine if you were. I can have a conversation, but that was where my brain went to. And I think it's good to be having these kinds of conversations because we need to do more of that. And I want to take advantage of the fact that you're both, you know, now we can say, Uva alumni, since you've now graduated, if, you know, you have any pearls of wisdom for each other, you know, from your Amanda, from your post college experience, and, you know, if there's anything that you're hoping to do, Sarita, now that you've graduated.

56:58 Yeah, I mean, I think we have, like, similar interests also in that regard. Like, we're both really interested in higher education, and it was in, like, education reform, so it was also great to hear, like, someone, Amanda has a similar interest in that and kind of, like, what led her to pursue that. And I think that, like, made me happy to know that there's people out there, like, fighting the good fight, if you will, that care about these, like, really important questions that a lot of people I'm around, like, don't really think about. So that was just, like, something I really appreciated. And I just graduated, so I don't have too much wisdom, but that that's something that, like, made me happy, like, looking ahead and thinking about the people in the communities that I care about and stuff.

57:45 I actually think Sarita had a lot of great points about, like, how to spend your college time and experience and make the most of it, of, like, taking. It's not just going to give to you and asking lots of questions, trying to get to know your professors, like, just walk into office hours. I think I honestly was always, like, kind of unsure of how to do that and a lot of imposter syndrome, being kind of shy. So I waited too long to start doing that. And if I could go back, I would have just done that from. From day one and been less afraid of whatever it is I was afraid of rejection, feeling dumb. So that's a big one while you're at uva. And then I think the other thing is, like, we. We talked about this a bit. Um, and I think the older I get, I. I see this more and more is that, um. I don't know, it's kind of like everything is one big chessboard and you're just making little moves, trying to, like, get a win here and there, and there's just one big game that we're playing, and that's kind of all you get. And it sounds very cliche, but, like, looking at every single situation that you're in and trying to figure out, like, what is it that you want out of this? Why are you doing it? Kind of thinking about, like, the long game to make the right moves to get you to where you want to go and what will make you happy. And I think, like, what Sarita was saying about her parents moving them to a new city to have better education, all of that kind of stuff, like, that's exactly what that is. Like, if you aren't making those little moves along the way, you don't always end up where you want to go. And so just, like, taking the time to get to know yourself and be reflective and strategic about what you're doing is a big thing and something that still trying to figure out, but I wish someone had told me that back in college. It won't come to you. You have to go take it. Well, thank you so much, both of you. I'm going to go ahead and stop our recording here.