David Linzee and Kara Krekeler

00:01 Hi, my name is Kara krekeler. I am 33 years old today is December 15th? 2015. I'm at the University City Library with my friend David. My name is David linzee. I am 63 today is September 15th 2015. I met U City library and I am with my former editor at the West End of word Kara and I'll be saying some nasty things about editors and the key to this tape, but I have only good things to say about Kara and I did not pay you to say that. Okay, so you wanted to talk a little bit about your publishing career. Obviously, I'm only aware of the newspaper and the newsletter part of it. But why don't you tell me a little bit about your the book part in the publishing to talk about my career as a novelist and the Beast and I think this will be useful Ms. If there is an imbalance in the amount of information available.

01:01 About writers. There's a huge amount of information available about a Stephen King Philip Roth the top 1% but there's very little available about the other 99% So if you're a young person wanting to be a writer it's as if you were wanting to be a lawyer but the only lawyers, you know anything about where Supreme Court Justices so you think I'll go to law school and I'll be John Roberts and that's not how it works. That's so he's the top of the top so I can prep Supply some info in this Gap because I am the writer equivalent of the type of lawyer who has his office in the strip mall and heddles for traffic tickets.

01:48 I'll begin my story in the 1970s. I am in the Park Avenue office, which is actually her kitchen the literary agent named for the klaussner. They might have gotten to know through teacher at my college and I have my first novel death in Connecticut. I make a couple of key discoveries right away people in publishing are too busy to read Associates had a reader read my book and she gives me his report and it says well this is terrible totally lousy and I say, oh well, oh, what am I doing here?

02:37 I said okay again, why am I here? She says well, I have an idea and this is my second big lesson that when you meet ages and editors that they don't want to talk about what you've written about what you might write. Okay. In fact I guess that didn't make her but he was in Kansas City. Okay later do some research on this fellow and decided that I had no interest or ability to write a big political novel about the 1920s and 30s and meantime, she found another reader to read my novel death in Connecticut who has said it's not hopeless it can be improved if we change this and this and this and this

03:37 I thought these changes were likely to destroy the book. And anyway that the engine was only interested in Boss Pendergast anyway, so I thought well, I'll just try to sell it myself in the seventies. This was barely possible. There were there was a thing called the slush pile unsolicited manuscripts from Agents ended up until you have picture. This is some huge pile of manuscripts for five feet high and every once in awhile. I'm miserable in for a little assistance would be sentenced to read about it. So I came to hear this library and I got out the writer magazine and its list of Publishers who would look at us was in Beggin Strips one of them stood out David McKay small New York publisher and why the affected by a notice was they said we would respond in 3 weeks.

04:37 Just work my way down the page.

04:39 3 months past and a couple of more months. Finally. I said I wrote him a letter I said Walter McKay. I'm assuming that you don't want to publish my book. So I'm just headed out to somebody else. I got a call saying no wait wait. We're considering that manuscript nice. She's intro Jesus as well. I'll see what I can do. I'm going to try to put this by your editorial board. Don't get your hopes up another couple of months past and she sent me a letter saying yes, we're going to publish it. Now this news you would get a telephone call maybe or a telegram know just a little letter with an eight cent stamp in those days even so I was over the moon I said, I'm accepted by a New York publisher. I'm in the major leagues.

05:35 Bra, I was on the farm team. I was out of St. Louis Cardinal. I was a Memphis right now because I was what was called the mid list in my case was actually at the bottom of the list but still with the the the books that count are call the top of the list. Those are the ones that are going to get the author tour the advertisements all that stuff. The other books that the bush will just sort of pretty few and see what happens in my case something did happen.

06:07 First I got to a rave review and Publishers Weekly and that attracted the interest of Dell the big paper bag. This was important in those days because in the 70s Publishers fought hard covers were only to get reviewed magazines newspapers were very snobbish with Doctor review of paperbacks. He had to have a heart. The other reason was the libraries and for some reason to believe by Publishers. The libraries would not buy a paperback. I guess it was too expensive to find a buying the book or something. I don't know what that that was their belief. But otherwise everyone else we figured the readers would not show out the stratospheric seven or eight dollars that are hard cover cost only buy one or two dollar Mass Market paperback. It's always good to have them at that paper back sale, and I went to jail to their office and a young edit editorial assistant watch be back to the the bigwigs office.

07:07 And I didn't pay much attention to our didn't realize then that she was Meg Blackstone was her name and she posed to the person who would read my book and with my champion and she would come into my story later on at the time. I was concerned with the big wig when he usually said, you know what you should do. You should write like Mary Higgins Clark when she's having her first best-seller. I just read them, but it's what I could ride if I go take their advice.

07:35 So while we're waiting for the the the book to come out I am trying other ideas out Champs on Michelle slime, but I've completed other manuscript this risk all discretion and I give it to her and to my life is good about your previous book was a suspense novel which I'm qualified to edit. This is a caper novel, which I'm not qualified to edit and I said come on. These are just light entertainment genre is who you act like, this is Madison, like you're you're not board-certified in the cape or not, but she stuck by this later we found out the real reason when David McKay stop putting out Mysteries and fired Michelle Salon. She never works in publishing a jazz for us. I know but her story has a happy.

08:35 End it because she a couple of years later wrote a little book called Mama Lee's thanks. My brother told me every Mother's Day. She would bring out another one of those little books and they sold in millions. So Michelle Salon got very rich indeed good for her. Meanwhile, I am without a publisher but I do have a new agent. Her name is Rapier Corsini. She's an American Title. She's the marquesa and whenever she was displeased with me. If you have a secretary write me a letter that said the marquesa and she lived in a in a grande apartment on Beekman place on the upper east side of Manhattan, very fancy and motor other clients was Princess Grace of Monaco who she referred to as

09:35 TG as in I was just in Paris, we had lunch with PJ so she was quite a grand person and she was able to a place my book discretion with a new publisher. Now, this is the 70s by Playboy magazine was selling like crazy Hugh Hefner had plenty of money. He was diversify. So we decided to set up an imprint meaning of very small Publishing House called Seaview and to install experience editor named Charles Shopkin to run it. So stop being blocked discretion and I thought well, we'll continue this serious. This is this sour another book about the same Heroes of discretion, and he said no we want you to write a big book.

10:26 No it in the in the 70s again. The big book was what everybody wanted. It was the long book that would had a platinum evolve big issues possibly historical events with City big promotable Saga that they could write add to that. So I said I had an idea for a book set in America during the early years of World War 1 and about the sinking of the Lusitania. It was just an idea. I haven't got anywhere with this idea. How about this and he said fine I'll sign it up. Everybody hears first half of your advance and was very happy about this development. I was a little out of my depth. I fear that a long big historical novel might be beyond my Powers, but I was stuck with it. So

11:22 I ever searched and wrote six months later submitted the first hundred pages to mr. Shopkin and he said terrible. Forget it. Maybe when he said, nope. It's hopeless the marquesa then said, well, you give back the first half of the advance you and I said marquesa. No way. We're not giving back his money because if he does that if we do that you can cut me loose instead. We're going to have to apply that money to another book in this private eye series equal to discretion. So he agreed to that and he accepted the book and which was called Belgravia pay me the rest of the advance and it was again Noah the paperback have on a red book, but was not a huge seller.

12:14 Meantime I'm trying to place other ideas with Mister Softee in and he keeps saying no and finally says well, I'm just disappointed with you over that will wear one book another work at work with you anymore and few months later mistress option was fired and Playboy books canceled Seaview and it was never heard from again nor with Shopkin. He never worked in publishing again. He went out to the track and played the horses so I can make the rest of his books. So mean time. I am nowhere marquesa. He has no more ideas for me and we'll figure it out on me there. I keep Body and Soul together for a few years that I've returned to, New York.

13:07 And this time I've written a complete book called housebreaker. I'm not going to be a little out of line to things anymore. I'm for the whole book and then I found an agent and excellent agent. She's young woman just starting out. Her name was Sally ever near which was spelled a Gouverneur like a Governor Morris signer of the Declaration of Independence, and she may well have been related to him because she was a a New England flu, but hard worker smart very dedicated person exclamation.

13:42 So she went out with this book got some turn downs, but then found a buyer at Dutton and the buyer was none other than Meg Blackstone my assistant and of course is not no imprint of Playboy or anything. It is a major American Publishing House goes back to before the Civil War. So I'm getting on here. Well, no, I never did find out why but that's a the publisher did nothing with housebreaker much. They they put a just checking on it that we actually repel any buyer. I would think I just kind of put it a few and put them out there and they didn't sell either except in One Bookstore.

14:34 The one where I worked, okay, I was picking Body and Soul together at this point. I just being a sales clerk at a bookstore in a mall in Connecticut. Okay. So I was in a position to make the best display for housebreaker. I had other people other people on the staff doing posters for it. I would walk out to people on the floor as I know what that book you are and how its prey. So did the sales figures for the chain would come out and in every other store. The number one bestseller was Scott turow's first novel Presumed Innocent in my store. He was number to my house breaker. Unfortunately, I couldn't be everywhere house breaker was that was a failure last name in the in the Seahawks hats so

15:22 That was bad news for me. But Meg Blackstone was willing to buy another book. I wrote it she accepted it. But without much enthusiasm my thought and she said well, we'll put this on the fall list fall arrive to said. Oh you got bumped your on the spring list spring arrives at your on the phone list. So we're confused about this all this time. Sally and I are getting her out lines for small books for big books and it kind of book she keeps saying do not this one. You can probably guess by now where this is going sure enough for the owner of Dutton was Nal new American library and one day they fired every single employee. Wow, big Blackstone had 15 minutes of fame because she told the New York Times and how can you fire and cut can cancel the insurance of a woman who is 8 months?

16:22 The truck in front of it so much so that they have done was embarrassed enough to say okay, you're still fired, but we will continue your health insurance for a few months. So I guess he likes baby was was born and she never worked in publishing again, though last I heard she was Ghost writing college application essays.

16:49 So another visitor comes to us adding me while I'm on my own and was also pretty sad my hardworking sell every year. I actually felt more story for her. They put myself cuz I know what's happening. But she being a New England Blue Blood. She thought that the publisher should be good for their commitments. She thought that my fate should matter at all these corporate truffles. So when the Lancaster of the head of a n a l I won't actually be able to bother with the books all we can we just fired me. He said no you got at least read it and pull up Jess. What is terrible so Furious and wrote a letter that was just scratching start started with the words shame on you. I said Sally what are you doing? This is a very powerful publisher. You're offending here. So I didn't care if she let her have it anyway.

17:48 Sally was a great agent because she met the the author PHA Wellness definition of an agent pay bills and send an agent does one thing fight Publishers on behalf of authors. That's what Sally did her career came to an end and she married a partner in part of the Great Wall Street law firms. He was Jason to Hong Kong she went with him she tried to run her agency from there, but could not and if Fulton certainly hope it's Shelly had a happy life is the wife of Richard lawyer and she had two children to I hope that I hope that went well too but she was out of publishing his too bad because she was a very good Asian.

18:32 So by now, I'm triggered St. Louis things are looking pretty bleak for me. No agent. No publisher nothing and to the rescue comes John Lutz home. You probably heard of successful writer in St. Louis. I would say he's been in print continuously for 50 years and he said it. Well I have an idea but my problem is I have so many publishing contracts. I don't have time to ride it ride it with you.

18:59 Find John let's do it. We can write the book called final seconds. It is published. It is a hit. It sells loads of copies and paperback loads of copies in hardcover hits close to Hollywood was ever made as a movie, but we're still the biggest check ever saw in my life.

19:17 Now I have finally I had to my name and I write another book and I start contacting people in publishing and nobody even wants to read I say but I but I wrote half of this stuff you selling book and then they say unless his name sold it so it doesn't matter that you wrote half of it. So that's the end of me and I go into non-fiction and find the West End work later when I had my my nice cushy job, and I'm so I was wondering was my experience unusually unlucky and having a little time. I thought I would do some research about that. So I found out that there were 35 people who had their first book the first novel published by a New York publisher in the spring of 1977 as I did and I research what happened to them.

20:16 To see how many of these 35 has succeeded the answer was to okay one was a man named Terry Brooks who wrote a series of fantasy talkin things call deshanna write his first one was a hit and he just kept writing shot or novels for the rest of his career history. Not that successful detective all the way through and they sold a small amount but they sold Stella Lane and he worked every year in front of the book every year the rest of the 1/2 of the ones who brought out of first novel never brought out of second one and the others were like me they would painfully bring out one book every few years when they were kept and hit it, right.

21:07 So what can we do about this? And I think the answer was the the the Publishers had didn't know how to sell books anymore. They were betting on this big book find a Florida book and they can put all their chips on that book and it would be a hit and that would make the author in and make them some money. But this paid off Gary Sullivan and was expensive and I knew from my book store days how many times you could get 40 bucks and make a pile of the and a few months later. We would send 49 books back. So the big book was not a good strategy and that of the of the 3335 authors from 1977 a succeeded with a big butt are the only ones who who succeeded. We're the ones who just broke that that same genre or that same type of book every time.

22:04 So people who are nostalgic about the 70s and 80s and he say this was the time before amazon.com. This was the time when the Publishers were at least more independent than 10 I are now and they're all huge conglomerate. This is when they were still independent bookstores. So these were the good old days not true. It was we're having a pretty rough lies. So I retired from my job and I'm still a couple years ago with a pension and I've had I thought I'm going to enjoy my golden here as I'm going to learn to play the piano where to speak French all kind of things did a few weeks. I'm another book finished it and now technology has changed their is good for neck and there's a print-on-demand that there are ebooks as public as possible to be a publisher was much lower overhead. So I send my

23:04 I just ripped for spur-of-the-moment. It's called too many small Publishers who will turn it down until what call The Coffee Town press in the Seattle says yes. I have a book coming out next April cool. So tell me a little bit. I mean you mention the titles of the books and just kind of mentioned that one of them was Caper and you had a thriller suspense. Tell me a little bit more about about these books your your first book was death in Connecticut. What was that one about and what I guess what inspired you to write that one? What was the idea behind that? You can walk me through those a little bit. Okay. Sure death Connecticut was a book is already a. Piece of wood in the mid-seventies, but it was about nineteen seventy one. That's about a rebellious Young campus radical who hates his father and an established.

24:04 And returns from the road just reduced and despairing about how badly things are going politically in the country and I can 71 and stumbles on evidence that he thinks indicates that to his father is involved in drugs get salt out to to get the proof. Well, he turns out to be wrong with the malefactor is not his dad who actually turns out to to be as his prey. So that's what that one was about strange title death in Connecticut. Well, it was some yelling at her up until then and still is the only Thriller. I know that setting Hartford doesn't really strike me as a big, you know Thriller sort of the city.

25:04 Thompson and tough games and it's Alana. Mine's going to be about two properties in Connecticut. That sounds really cool. I now I feel like that's cool. So I was just something that had been kind of percolating in the back of your head for a while when you decided to write or what what made you decide? I'm going to write a book darn it. The decision doesn't seem to come from me the idea gets in there and demands to be written. So it's a pretty rational sort of thing. It's okay. Okay. Okay, so in Connecticut, and then I'm trying to remember the order of the books that the other night a pair of discretion and fell gradia. These were about a man and a woman private eye team. It was like Moonlighting.

26:04 Okay, I'm sexually several years before Moonlighting and they were the Private Eyes of Philip Marlowe days who worked in the city office and have a bottle of booze in there and their desk and and no secretary and pay for their bullets. And these guys were slick corporate security at Specialists. Okay, and they got involved in the kind of work the private eyes really do it, which is industrial Espionage corporate Shenanigans Okay, so

26:46 Is that the seems like an interesting kind of switch to me it is that are they an interesting version of your ear styles for tapered off alone my gosh. I'm trying to find a series and I didn't see carrying him on from Butcher Block, but I thought well people who have a job private eyes. I can buy lots of books about them. So that would buy My Hope by the last of the series didn't get beyond the second one. Do you still have that have momentary stories of them in your head or like maybe they're up to this now or anything like that, Alaska?

27:46 Now you're the 4th book housebreaker housebreaker. First of all, you mentioned the the cover of that that was horrible to sell everywhere else. What did this cover look like I am. I'm so intrigued by that. I'm going to judge the book by its cover hear what a little old lady. That's really Dreadful pink wallpaper restarting back in fear of a burglar outside. Okay, who look like nobody in the book at all, and they were blotches and drops of blood all over it. And it how did that actually relate to the story was that was that a fairly accurate depiction of the story or Storey? I was using what I knew well trying to keep Body and Soul together first time. I've been a paralegal and

28:46 This was a book about a paralegal. She works in the estate and Trust Department of a law firm what that means that they said that she has inventories what's in the houses of wealthy people because of course it has to be some point to buy them on there are sir.

29:04 She is unjustly fired. She takes the rapper her boyfriend a lawyer and so being that penniless and rather embittered. She thinks what is inventories why thieves of course so she finds a burglar and there is a tale of the plot. Yes. Okay. Yeah that does sound a lot more intriguing than then a little old lady on the cover of the one that's coming out in April, but what's the story with that one? What can you tell me about that one? Sure what this is happy to say. This is my best. Okay. I'm glad to say that I am actually getting better at getting the hang of it now and this is my first classic. Whodunit murder mystery.

30:02 It's set in St. Louis. The the victim of the murder is the wealthy donor to the St. Louis Opera in Webster Groves any real Opera company, but you're grown out at all upon a fundraiser for the Opera because he gets lazy thing is to get the donation. Okay 21st washes their hands on him.

30:29 But his sister sets out to help him out. She's a mezzo-soprano of singer with the company and she thinks he could be sleazy but he's not a murderer. Okay, so she undertakes to find out who really did it and she enlist the aid of us a first off that the donor made her money because she's a medical researcher at Adams University Medical School wish again, but no resemblance to any real medical OK worth billions. So the Metro Sopranos says well come on, of course, she wasn't killed because of some Opera donation a few thousand dollars. It was a steel guitar my daughter killed so she goes to a public relations writer at Adams University Medical School.

31:29 Where all the bodies are buried at the medical school and as it happens, that was my job again for a while. I was a publicly this writer at a certain medical school. So the even begin to explore scandals in Pharmaceuticals. That's it's really cool. So that when you're you're more kind of writing writing what you know a bit or Connecticut with big about trapeze while I was I was a sort of a priori close enough so you might think the Tet me some people write crime novels about do no private eyes and prostitutes in so well, I'm good. I say the people of my Suburban

32:29 Class they commit crimes to so scary about everything but you know, they're not just in New York City those cuz that the first one in St. Louis. Yes. It is in New York or in Europe in preview. Okay. So when this book comes out will we see lots of in a locations in the book that are a mean aside from the Opera in Webster Groves, which is nothing like any other Opera Company Webster Groves. Will we will be in there when I read this I'm going to go.

33:28 All the locations are real totally made-up story are real and you always be spending a lot of time in Clayton where where the fundraiser is in the county jail and you will also be spending a lot of time in the Central West End. I wear a denim University Medical School is located close to any other Medical School Okay, cool. So just ask a little bit about some of your non-book stop. So so I got to know you through the West End word. But from what I recall you were there before I was how did how did that relationship with the word start? How did you start?

34:18 Writing that well in in contrast to a my career is is a New York novelist. My career as a provincial journalist was very Success magazine the Post-Dispatch Riverfront Times and Tim Woodcock retired me to write a column and then you also do the the newsletter for for the Parkview Gardens. That's right. And for the Historical Society here and you say and how how did you start doing those with such as something that you saw a need and started doing it or what again? They asked me I was surprised to find the board. And you said you bloomboard calling me and say we want you to be a board member in. I would be very Frank. I would say I have to tell you I'm not rich and I don't know a lot of rich.

35:18 That's okay. We just want you to do our newsletter for free story of of your your book publisher. I had no idea that you had written that many novels eyes and saw one of them on the Shelf one time. I remember but I did not know that you would you bring that money now and have to read them about the time I met while it was there anything else that you wanted to before we before we stop here and go I was just about to say once again. Pleasant was working with you compared to other creditors had my acquaintance. I always did enjoy your columns as well while I was there so good.