Scott Hill and Robert Richard

00:02 My name is Scott Hill. 59 years old today is July 31st, 2020 my 21st wedding anniversary and I'm speaking from Oakmont, Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh with Bob Richard. Who is my one small step partner.

00:20 My name is Bob Richard. I'm 67 years old today is July 31st 2020 which would have been my 2838 wedding anniversary. And Scott Hill is my one step one small step part.

00:49 Now Scott, how would you sum up your life story in 3 minutes or less?

00:56 All right. Well, I was born in Milwaukee Wisconsin place and still very connected to grew up there had a good middle-class childhood a lot of Outdoors camping and hiking and canoeing went to Michigan State University where I got a biochem degree went back to Milwaukee and worked in Biochemistry and then went to Egypt for two years to teach English and science for the Presbyterian Church came back to Milwaukee got married the first time it went to Seminary in Berkeley, California and then went from there to Morocco or year of teaching English and working on Interfaith dialogue. I've been a presbyterian Pastor for 30 years and if serve churches in, New York

01:56 Pennsylvania, Illinois and Indiana and

02:02 Now live in Pittsburgh have been here for three and a half years and have continued to be involved with Middle Eastern issues and and Christian Muslim dialogue and

02:17 I think that's a good start how I love to hike still and run and enjoy the beautiful Western, Pennsylvania woods.

02:29 I was born and raised in Southern California. In fact, I was born in Hollywood and went through high school. There came East go to college and went to Princeton University majored in public affairs at the newly-named Princeton School of Public International Affairs. The after college I either I knew growing up that either I was going to be a Christian politician or politically sensitive. Priest, I grew up as an Episcopalian and

03:19 1975 was a bad time for Republicans to graduate from college if one wanted to work in politics, so I ended up going to Seminary here in Western Pennsylvania are brand-new Seminary called Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry, which is now located in Ambridge.

03:42 After graduation felt very much felt God saying I wanted I want Western episcopalians to serve in the western part of the United States cuz the Episcopal Church in the west is different than the whiskey Festival Church in the East and so I then went back not to Los Angeles, but to the San Joaquin Valley where I was ordained and served for about five years before I went to graduate school at The Graduate theological Union.

04:16 And study New Testament, so I emphasized that because San Francisco Theological Seminary is a part of the gtu. So I had faculty from sfps for teaching me.

04:35 And then went back I ended up being is referred to as a BD all but dissertation, so I didn't finish my dissertation and therefore my dream of teaching and Seminary what I thought was God's location didn't come to forwishen cell return to the pastor it when some things happened the password ended up going into accounting and bookkeeping and now have

05:12 Get out deer variety of different jobs in California in 2011 I always wanted to get back to the amperage and the Pittsburgh and in 2011 God said okay you can go back out to Pittsburgh to Ambridge and I've been back here since 2011 so I live in Moon Township actually about a mile from where the Seminary started Robert Morse

05:43 So what years were you

05:47 Life Is Fun

05:51 Sebab, what years were you in the gtu?

05:55 Irish they're not 86 to 92. All right, so I was living in Berkeley 86 290 lived in an apartment building right behind a GTO bookstore Fresno. So during the week I stayed in in the dormitory at cdsp. So just just like a parking lot away.

06:32 Alright Bob in your own words. Could you describe your personal political values? What are the most important issues for you personally?

06:42 Okay.

06:44 I believe that fundamentally my political views are rooted in my religious views and but I do

07:00 M shaped by my Republican Up Ring upbringing so I do have a moderately conservative economic views. I believe in the capitalist system that it's the best system for a economics overall and I am conservative on coming in from the Evangelical point of view Trinity School for Ministry is an Evangelical Seminary in the tradition and therefore have a conservative views on abortion and actually right to life. If you're if you have a consistent life policy, they are few points and you also are opposed to the death penalty if it's wrong to kill children, it's it's wrong to kill adult.

08:00 But overall the other part of me is too sick from coming out of scripture realize that

08:10 The Jesus was one who cared for the poor my specialty is in Luke acts and as you probably know Luke is very oriented towards the good news for the poor right hand. So I have a pro social justice Viewpoint as well. It's an Evangelical proclamation of the Gospel.

08:41 So what about for you?

08:46 Yeah, I think I would say My Views have been shaped a lot by living in other countries the other lot of things that are very important to me about our democratic system having lived in places where people's vote didn't count for much. It's very important to me to to vote and to exercise that right privilege and I

09:17 I think this might be a particularly Presbyterian understanding that that we're very concerned about power the balance of power in politics and having different have checks and balances. So that's that's very important to me. You cannot make a quality is is really important compassionate politics that are concerned about the rights of minority groups the capital punishment. I was glad to hear you mention is been important issue to me for ever since I was a high school debate her and that was an issue that we debated one year.

10:05 But I also immigration and issues of protecting religious rights of perfectly religious minorities are important to me in as a mention Christian Muslim relations. So those are some of the important things obviously fairness Justice.

10:36 So go ahead. Yeah, I guess it's your turn to ask me is earliest political memory over this one. I was pretty young when Watergate was happening. So that was certainly formative.

10:57 I mentioned that that High School debating that was dug into researching a penal reform was topic 1 year. And so that was certainly politically related.

11:13 If I don't I don't have something I think of is a a very clear early political memory. And again as I mentioned going overseas, I was very interested in politics in by the time I was in college. I had a roommate who was more conservative than me and and we had some some good discussion.

11:39 That's as clear as I get really. How about you? Okay, my earliest my father was very active in Republican politics. And one thing about every Sunday was Face the Nation and Meet the Press and

12:01 You know being in his Dan and watching those two programs with him the way to be with my dad who often was very busy and distant and yet just sort of make him happy by being in the involved with his life.

12:22 At age 14

12:27 I was getting keen on on working for the Republican party and I ate in on Election Day in 1966. I walk the poles I walk the precinct, you know going to the precinct and Crossing out the names of the people who would already voted and then walking around the walking around the block in getting out the vote and that year Ronald Reagan was elected governor.

13:04 I saw at an early age. So that was probably my earliest time.

13:18 Sure.

13:36 I look back on the road now.

13:42 We had in 1960.

13:47 4 or 66

13:50 We had a proposition on the California ballot ballot heaven forbid propositions in California an awful way of handling legislation, but we had a

14:06 Housing protection act I forgotten exactly what it was but basically conservatives put on the ballot or thing that said that you know my home my home is my cat and I can sell my house to whoever I want. Okay, read between the lines now the interesting thing at the same time and I just didn't make the connection. I was attending a Boys Choir School and 20% at the school was black 20% of the school was Japanese 5% of the school was Hispanic, but then that was 20 boys for were black forward Javanese and one and one with a Chicano.

14:57 But here I was I had a I had friends who were blacks and who lived in Compton a very lower class and yet at the same time. I'm Iris espousing these views of my dad that were on the opposite end of it. And you know, I went to look back at that because if I if that item we're on the ballot today are being credibly opposed to it, you know, if there's no question about it, I was supposed to Proposition 13, but we don't need to get into that 1% property tax won't be anything more than 1%

15:42 So

15:44 What about you or talk of moment about your okay?

15:49 Really shake them diamond shaped or when they shifted.

15:58 I keep coming back to

16:02 The

16:05 Living overseas, but it was interesting. I was very interested in in.

16:13 Election in Egypt when I was there it was it was one of a series elections that were always billed as this this time. Our vote is going to matter more than it ever did before me. A lot of people were very jaded about it, but it certainly did make me appreciate our system.

16:36 And also I think that

16:39 That's that's that experience has made me on the one hand. I want to go to a place where your Christianity was in minority. And so have the experience of being surrounded by people with a different worldview and that's made me sensitive to both Christian minorities around the world and minority religions here and but it also made me aware that as a

17:17 6 foot 5 plus white straight male

17:25 Anywhere in the world. I'm never going to quite know what it's like to be minority with that US passport in particular. There's just a lot of privilege that goes with that. So I said that that is contingent for me quite a bit about you baba a moment when your political ideas were really shave door when they shifted.

17:47 Okay, one day particularly stands out.

17:53 Was in 1972 when I was in college and I was State chairman of the college Republicans and Richard Nixon fired Donald Donald Rumsfeld as attorney general and replace them and demand insane. I know what the Supreme Court would do about these tapes in her and I'm not going to release them. And basically he got the solicitor general who became attorney general to

18:34 The man that you know not to enforce it so that night I'm going hold on a second. This is not the Constitution.

18:45 Doesn't get wet the president and I'll tell the Supreme Court what to do and that was

18:59 Up until that point. I was in Nixon Republican and I was I was in Miami, you know saying yelling for more years.

19:13 And

19:16 It's how it goes so difficultly, you know, another one that was similar to that was in 1973. I was an intern on Capitol Hill and I was working for my congressman from Glendale, California and he was a member of the Judiciary Committee and was one of the few Republicans who stood up for Nixon and when Nixon release the tapes and it was so very clear that we was indeed very guilty. We had our picture with him when he came walking across the street. It looked like a friend who just hit him in the stomach, so

20:02 You know my

20:06 Attachments to things were I open for me with Republican Party.

20:21 Okay, what did you read my bio?

20:25 Well, if you're the Berkeley thing jumped out at me and so I was I was interested in in that and you know, I I could tell you were coming from different places than I was but I was I was curious so I was I was interested.

20:50 How about you what you think we were done? I don't remember what I wrote. So what struck me is the two of us are in a triangle in terms of our relationship with world religions were both Christians, but you have a background and experience with Islam and I'm currently Financial Officer for an organization called the church's Mission among Jewish people. So we're actually involved with Jewish evangelism both here in the states and in Israel, so we actually have the first Protestant church is located in Israel is just inside the Jaffa gate in Jerusalem. So so that's struck me and

21:50 So, you know, I think Islam I'm trying to understand it's not it's easier to understand Judaism because we share the Hebrew scriptures.

22:04 You know, I haven't really understood the Quran when I tried to read it.

22:13 What did she say? Okay, we've done the Bayou thing. If so.

22:47 Okay. He said it was the word that a used Southern California is a long way from Wisconsin and you made it clear that politically and religiously that we were going to have some some differences of opinion that he had some bleeding in the opposite direction to me. So then

23:13 I mean, that's when I filled out the questionnaire, you know me.

23:20 And it said, okay what what are your religious views are you you know, and I it was clearly for me my my roots of who I am as a person is my relationship with Jesus Christ and a reformed

23:42 Calvinist theological kind of perspective that Anglican evangelicalism has so

23:54 Some common Heritage with the reform tradition, but I also know how what are consuming year with the Presbyterian Church USA. That's correct. Yes. Okay. Okay, so I was wondering why did he go to Princeton?

24:16 Cuz I actually took one plastic at Princeton seminary, but when I was at Princeton, but so actually you perm option in GT. You suck. How many classes did you take what you must have if you were in Berkeley, you must have taken a predominant number classes on the Berkeley side of the bed. Where did you go over to Miranda. In Berkeley?

24:55 You just like living in Berkeley.

24:59 Yeah, and give my wife more options for job.

25:08 Okay. Okay so good.

25:16 Let's see. What would be good. So how do you continue to continue to have dialogue with?

25:28 Muslims are you at what are you doing in Pittsburgh related to Islam?

25:38 Yeah, when I when I came to town as I've done another place I lived I wrote letters to local mosques and Muslim organizations letting them know about my background in my interest and heard back from some of them. And so

25:58 I've done programs of organized for local North Branch of our Presbytery. The church is there to meet with Muslims they have open houses at the mosque at most connected with in the North Hills and

26:20 Then also when the shootings happened in the mosque New Zealand there were vigils and other can't be with them right now. I'm working with a Catholic priest what we were working before the endemic came along to organize a study group of Christians and Muslims each other's Faith. So

26:47 That's good. That's good.

26:51 Any sense my involvement with what's abbreviated cmj is clearly Evangelistic. Our goal is to introduce people choose to the Society of sure you sure as their Messiah to what to what extent

27:20 Are you involved do you say to introduce Muslims to Jesus Christ?

27:31 Well good Muslims are our already love Jesus and is important part of their faith. And so we have some interesting discussions. But so are we on for example, whether Jesus actually died on the cross or not and whether Jesus was God of course, but yeah, it's not been.

28:03 I will certainly speak for for my viewpoint, but I don't try to to bring them to my perspective. So do you believe that Jesus died on the cross? So yeah. Oh, okay. Okay, you're talking in terms of dialogue with the yes. They think you just trying to cross you got it.

28:39 Yes.

29:03 A lot of the discussion that's in going on in the in the church. There are people in the Episcopal Church who do deny that Christ died on the cross or at least that he was the son of God and one of the painful things that has happened in my life Scott you would know about it is that you know, we've had a slit in the Episcopal Church, you've had it in the Presbyterian Church as well and between the more conservative Orthodox and I grew up as an Episcopalian and yet the time came when

29:56 The Orthodoxy and The Descent reality of the Gospel the centrality the scriptures can't key for me. And so I actually was part of the first diocese in California. That is I like to put it stepped aside from the Episcopal church. I don't like to say that I don't believe in Splitters and it it was a painful process it so I'm now part of the Anglican Church in North America the Anglican Diocese of Pittsburgh and

30:36 The good thing about what happened with us, which is in contrast. What's happening among Presbyterian is his that we didn't splitter, you know for the most part the Anglican Church in North America is a very large umbrella of people that hold to Anchor 2.0 Anglican Vantage points, including Canada, including Mexico, and we even had the reformed Episcopal Church, which had separated from the Episcopal Church back in 1867.

31:15 Rejoin us for the reform the Church. We sort of reverse the splitter. One of the one of the previous letters has has rejoined us all that I think is important is that unity and it's one of my regrets with my Presbyterian Francis that you know the scattering about here in Beaver County. We've had a lot of it doesn't matter what name but fairly unified group Beaver County beaver beaver Presbyterian Weill Beaver Butler press

31:58 So

32:44 Yeah, it's

32:54 I guess it depends somewhere where I'm where are similarities are, but but hopefully we if we can agree that compassion and care for one. Another is it the is at the heart of our faith that that that's helpful and you know, I give me again comes from overseas experience. The unity of the church is very important. So I in many cases I'm going out of my way to be with people a very different backgrounds even those who don't particularly think I'm Christian because it's important for us to be together. So I was trying to start with I find stories are good place to start Jesus talked a lot with stories. But of course the whole the whole Bible is full of of

33:54 Stories and good stories aren't reducible just to a simple moral. So if you start with a story that you both agree that story is important and I have a hard time with people who who think there's only one way to read that story. But if if it's a story about

34:19 One of the characters of The Bible whether it's Jesus the disciples that Cycles are great because they were so fallible. And in many ways they're their fellow ability as I understand it is invitation to us to to do a little better.

34:39 But I think that I also always try to

34:45 Admit that I don't I don't know what all that's one of the good things about faces that there's there's so much mystery. I mean God's ways are not our ways. God says over and over again. And so we are we can loan me to go to learn what the real truth is that we need each other. We need people who know we have the image and in Christianity of the body of Christ and the eye there's the ear there's the foot the hand. We all play a role. We can't we can't be Christian without each other. So I try to bring those perspectives and and and listen.

35:34 I have been involved with.

35:37 Ecumenical relations going all the way back to college and have at my heart always thought that Christian should work together to be as unified and I've always been active with Ministerial Association people when I was a Princeton. I represented my congregation on the Interfaith Council and we had a Jewish rabbi that was part of it was Interfaith. It wasn't just Christian pastors and

36:14 You know if

36:16 If I were actively engaged in and pasta work today, then I would want to you know be involved with Ministerial Association and building and in fact going beyond the Princeton Interfaith Council tried to go beyond just having a lunch time with with the pastor's but to actually get the congregation's engage with one another.

36:46 Straight

36:49 So that's one of the things and that's one of the things I thought was so great about the ggu.

36:59 Wellsburg, as we're getting near the end. I wanted to ask you what you are hopeful about in our society and our politics in our country.

37:18 In 20/20, I'll be honest. It's embarrassing to be a republican. I don't know I anticipate not voting for president in the fall because I can't vote for Trump although for congress cuz I think it's important to get a republican Congressman representing our district, but it's with covet and with the bitterness going on in the Congress. I think it's absolutely awful. So I I don't have a lot of nope right now.

38:05 Within the political system. What about you?

38:11 Yeah, it is a hard time to be hopeful. I was hoping you preach to me Bob.

38:18 No, but I'm hopeful I'm I'm guardedly hopeful about the black lives matter movement. I see people emphasizing and being open to the experience of others in a way. They weren't able to a few months ago and I had to me it's it's it's deeply moving to be with a group of people who are 90% white folks who are saying, you know, we need to do more for equality. So it's it's not going to happen fast and it's not going to happen easy, and it's

39:08 It's hard working me. The dishes are different than they were 50 years ago. Is there more subtle but so that that's that's probably most and I guess I'm I'm I'm hopeful just because I think we have a very resilient system. I'm not I'm not a particular fan of the two party system. I don't know if there's a way to break away from it. But on the whole we've been through a lot of difficult crap before and there's a lot a lot in our system the album

40:01 Well, if if I were going to be I could just say well I already spoke about how important is to vote and there's that but you know, I wanted I wanted to vote for a Democrat.

40:15 I think Joe Budden has his weaknesses what I

40:21 What where I think the Hoke lice?

40:25 Is personal relationships? Okay not the political political world is is is a mess right now, but I have been involved in a Ministry coffee house ministry in Aliquippa where I was going into the office doing my bookkeeping but I was in the coffeehouses well with predominantly black Afro-American in entering into dialogue in working with them the man in charge of the mistress Ministries biracial marriage and there is good things happening within on the personal level.

41:15 That is just not able to happen or just doesn't seem to be able to happen.

41:22 On the political route

41:58 Well, you know, it's there's a lot of levels to it. I mean, I I I certainly think that that mail-in voting makes sense now, but I really miss the the Civil ceremony of seeing the people line up to to do their vote because again, I've lived in and visited places where people's voice is not important. And so I feel as if there been times you know, when when I

42:33 I hear

42:35 People saying you know, it's there's not enough difference between the two parties and

42:42 And so I'm not going to vote and then I understand that and I voted for several independent candidates over the years but I just feel as if people have died for our people have struggled in many ways for a system that does give us a voice and it's certainly not perfect. You know, they say it's it's the worst system except for all the other ones so that the way it gets better is is people's engagement. So

43:19 That's just really important to me and I heard it on others.

43:25 Believe me, it's hard for me.

43:29 To say not to vote because ever since I used it was, you know, I vote in every election and so forth and it's hard to say, but Donald Trump, you know, just

43:45 It's not foldable. I didn't vote for him and I didn't vote for him in 16 voted for, Ohio.

43:55 You know far more reasonable gentleman from McKees Rocks.

44:03 John Kasich, what were you going to ask those rooms?

44:09 Call Maria. I'm sorry.

44:27 You want to go first on that Scott? Go ahead if you want.

44:38 I mean obviously it's real important to have person to person conversations. You know that Bob was talking about the strength of that and we needs

44:54 We need people to get away from the social media Bubbles and talk to people in here the real stories and

45:04 You know people talk to people your your neighbors are people to go to church or whatever with.

45:13 People have to learn to listen and to

45:19 Is this really something important about disagreeing with people you love and learn to do that? And then I hope I mean, I don't know how we can recover without some.

45:37 Really taking a look at where we going wrong. And obviously that that kid that gets.

45:46 I have my five my parts and take him where we gone wrong. But both sides have to look both parties have to look in and we always a mess of people have to look at mistakes that we've made and and and what are aspirations. I guess. That's it. It's trying to find.

46:06 Hopes that we share cuz they're they're our dreams for our country and our neighborhood and our community and our family have a lot of overlap.

46:25 Bob how can we come together after a divisive election this year?

46:35 Well, I have to say praise God for once one small step cuz that allowed me to meet Scott and Anna Maria. This is been a good conversation.

46:52 My time

46:56 At gtu

46:59 Is very memorable.

47:02 Because

47:04 I was one of the few evangelicals that was a part of the G2 U student body.

47:12 And I did live in Parsons. I participated actively in the chapel life there and it was a time when I was personally interrelated with people there and bottom line is for us to get back into a kind of community where that can take place. Unfortunately that type of community has this off to rakes. We become the kiddo and that can meet somewhere interchange. Like I'm involved in the midst group that is a virtual men's group and we're scattered across the country and have one person from another guy from the Philippines and support one another that way so it's that kind of interchange is more on a personal

48:12 As opposed to the political level.