Serena Melder and Kate Young

[00:01] KATE YOUNG: My name is Kate. I am 47 years old. It is August 15, 2022. We are in Wichita, Kansas, and my conversation partner is Serena.

[00:14] SERENA MELDER: My name is Serena. I am 40 years old. The date is August 15. We're in Wichita, and my conversation partner is Kate.

[00:25] KATE YOUNG: Serena, what made you want to do this interview today?

[00:29] SERENA MELDER: When I read the email about it, one I thought it sounded terrifying into, I thought I would never be chosen, so I went ahead and filled it out. What made you want to do the interview today?

[00:43] KATE YOUNG: Partially similarly, I was terrified. This has been something that my husband's been pretty involved in and been very passionate about. And so I was a late adopter. He did this, his interview probably a year ago, and it was intimidating to fill out the scale even to arrive at any particular definitive spot. And so I think that was intimidating for me, but I knew that I needed to do it, so here I am. Okay, so I am going to read your bio. I grew up in Wyoming with religious parents. The beliefs imposed on me as a child teen shaped the person and parent I am today. I grew up with a long list of potential sins and was in my twenties before I was able to get past a paralyzing fear of hell. Now I feel free to decide what I believe. I have involved my kids in pride events since they were babies and want to advocate for true equality. I worry about my kids being bullied for their beliefs and their religious freedom. I am interested. I just think I love the a sentence that you say. Now I feel free to decide what I believe. Do you feel how old were you when you felt like you really were free to decide what you believed?

[02:24] SERENA MELDER: Honestly, I feel like I'm still figuring out how to be free. In my mid twenties, once I was married and had kind of my husband, he thinks very logically and practically. And so some of those things that were really, like, emotional for me and just kind of all ground in feeling, he just kind of was able to show. It sounds silly, but, like, this is stupid. Then I was like, this is stupid. It's just a thunderstorm. Like. But I was terrified of thunderstorms until my twenties. And we were driving home from church, coincidentally one day, and he was like, you've got to let go of this thunderstorm thing. Like, it's stupid. And it just is kind of that moment for me. And I think that's was, like, the first piece of freedom that I felt.

[03:13] KATE YOUNG: I love that.

[03:14] SERENA MELDER: So thank you. Okay, so Kate's bio is I live in Wichita with my husband of 22 years and five children. I grew up in the northeast between northeastern Pa and Boston, the only child of divorced parents. During the 1980s and nineties, political issues were very important to my parents and I have experienced belonging to each side of the aisle. I believe strongly in building community and affecting change in our local lives. I believe in Jesus and his teaching to love our neighbors. I lost my dad to lung cancer during COVID It was difficult. There were so many things in your bio that I wanted to learn more about. I thought it was so interesting that you grew up in the east coast and I grew up in the west.

[04:07] KATE YOUNG: Okay. Yeah.

[04:07] SERENA MELDER: And then also I imagine being the child of divorced parents in the eighties and nineties was kind of maybe not a unique experience, but I imagine that was hard. I have so many questions, I don't know what to pick out as far as having a question specifically on. Oh, I guess the one thing I've been thinking about a lot is that you say that you've been on both sides of the political aisle, and I think that probably stood out to me the most. As far as. Do you find that now that you feel like you have one right answer or do you feel like you still fluctuate in between? Like, is it harder to define what you believe? I guess is my question. Because you've experienced both sides of it.

[04:57] KATE YOUNG: That's such a good question. I think yes and no. So, yes, I think that it is easier to define. So I guess no. No, it is not. It's easier for me to see that neither side of the aisle makes a lot of sense. Like, there's no clear framework that works for me. And so having lived on both sides and really advocated on both sides, I think it's clear that neither are perfectly right for me.

[05:37] SERENA MELDER: You seem like a person that would advocate for what you believe in. I just thank you.

[05:42] KATE YOUNG: That's come with age, for sure, and I'm still working that out. Tell me one or two people in your life who have had the biggest influence.

[05:59] SERENA MELDER: I think my mother is probably an obvious answer. I probably just. My mother and my husband. I don't know. It's a strange thing because with a parent it's like there's a lot of good things, but I think I tend to notice the challenges I've had to overcome, and they're the same challenges that my mom has had to overcome and her mother has had to overcome in different ways. They just kind of manifest themselves differently and hopefully get better. But those are the things I tend to notice. And then my husband has just been a different way of thinking. For me. And sometimes it's really hard because I feel like I can't relate to him. And sometimes it's so valuable because he makes me think of things that I could never get to that thought process on my own.

[06:46] KATE YOUNG: I love that.

[06:48] SERENA MELDER: So, yeah. Thank you. And then tell me about one or two people in your life who have had the biggest influence on you and what they taught you.

[07:02] KATE YOUNG: I think. I think it would be a similar answer. I was, as an only child of a single mom, I think it was, you know, she and I growing up, so she was kind of my best friend and my advocate, all the things, and just, I would say she taught me that it was never too late to reinvent myself. I watched her change careers in her mid forties, and just really, it didn't feel like there was a ceiling on what she could do or not do. And I've loved being in my mid to late forties now. I've loved how that was modeled for me. She went back to school to get her doctorate when she was 45. And so that's really cool. Isn't that cool?

[07:50] SERENA MELDER: It is really cool.

[07:52] KATE YOUNG: That has been really influential, because I never, I don't, I mean, I still tell my, I hear my, the tape in my head saying, oh, it's too late to do that next thing. But it was, it's counteracted by what was modeled for me. So, yeah, I think I'll just stick with that one for now.

[08:09] SERENA MELDER: Okay. Yeah.

[08:20] KATE YOUNG: Could you briefly describe, in your own words, your personal political values?

[08:28] SERENA MELDER: Isn't that a loaded question these days?

[08:31] KATE YOUNG: Really, really loaded.

[08:33] SERENA MELDER: Ask me five years ago my political values. I.

[08:41] KATE YOUNG: Do you want to go back five years?

[08:43] SERENA MELDER: No.

[08:46] KATE YOUNG: It was just clearer then. Is that what you're saying?

[08:48] SERENA MELDER: Well, I think what's hard is that, you know, I don't want to be controversial. You know what I mean? I want to be honest, but I'm like, that's so dangerous. Nobody wants to hear an honest answer that's immediately controversial. But, and my political values don't exist. Like the party structure that we have. We're not represented as a people. So the values that I would want to be represented, for me, political, like having an income where if I wanted to stay home with my children, that I would be able to do so, and that we wouldn't have to make a lot of sacrifices and not have, like, some of the experiences with them that we want to have or that just fill their needs the way we want to fill them. Or, you know, I want my political party to just care about my day to day life and my children's education and my viable income and really like, the rights that I have to be religious or to not be religious. And I don't feel like either party represents that. And so that's hard for me. But then I also get stuck in that. I feel like there's one party that's actively working against that, but in the name of Christianity. And then that brings back all these triggering things from my childhood that makes it really hard for me to just have, like, just have any kind of compassion for the other party. Even though I don't believe in, like, the democratic party that they're looking out for me. It feels like the Republicans are coming to get me. And you being a Christian, I'm like, oh, she's probably a Republican, and she probably voted for Trump, and that's unfair. So I'm sorry. For me, I don't know. And if you did, that's your choices. But I shouldn't just make those assumptions for you.

[10:40] KATE YOUNG: No, that's okay. That's why we're here. Right?

[10:42] SERENA MELDER: Right.

[10:42] KATE YOUNG: Yeah. I do identify as a Christian above my political party because I feel like the last couple of years, I don't feel like who I believe, how I believe christians should act is aligned with any political party, but in particular, the conservative party, I don't feel has represented Christianity. I feel like they've abused it. So I didn't vote for Trump, and I think that my political beliefs have been completely stripped away in the last two years because I'm still a registered Republican. And what I realized in the last election, our most recent election, was that I'm a registered Republican, so I can vote for the least bad republican candidate in the primary. And that's. I mean, that's it, you know? So, yes. You didn't ask me that question.

[11:47] SERENA MELDER: No. It's kind of hard, too, because you read these, and then I have all these other questions, but I'm like, I have to move on to the next card.

[11:52] KATE YOUNG: Yeah.

[11:53] SERENA MELDER: Yeah. Okay.

[11:54] KATE YOUNG: Okay. So, no, and it's been interesting, I will say, just to expand on that a little bit. Growing up with really, like, hippie parents and then becoming a Christian in my twenties, you know, that was a difficult thing for my family and me. You know, how do we find kind of our space together and then. But in the last two years, I've been able to find more common ground politically with my still very liberal family because we agree mostly on so much more than we ever did. So it's been this really interesting process I don't feel like I was changing. I just feel like there's been more common ground against because of Trump.

[12:45] SERENA MELDER: Right?

[12:46] KATE YOUNG: Like, he's actually. Isn't that strange?

[12:48] SERENA MELDER: I do. Like, I think that I was actually terrified that you would be the person I thought you were in my mind, and you're not at all the person that I thought you were in my mind. But I do wish that we were hearing more of a voice of, I'm a Christian, but these aren't my values, and this isn't what I want, because I feel like that voice has been lost, and I know it's out there. And that voice, I think, is stronger than a voice like mine and saying, no, no, I don't buy into any of it, but I think this is messed up. But, like, where you're like, no, no, no. I do believe in these principles, but this is not, like, what they're supposed to represent because it's really discouraging also in that there are parts of Christianity that can be really wholesome and good for people. But I think why I completely reject it is because if it's on a scale, I just see more harm than good. And I wish that wasn't the case because I do think people need something to believe in. But it also kind of makes you more susceptible to being used and taken advantage of in some ways. And it can be so fear based. And fear is such a strong emotion that when you start using fear, I think it becomes easier to kind of manipulate people.

[13:56] KATE YOUNG: I agree. I agree. That's really true. Yeah. My hope in raising my children in the christian faith is, honestly to try to do away with some of that fear stuff. I feel like if we look at Jesus and how we walked around this earth as the model, it looks a lot different than what the churches would tell you right now. And so it's just a different picture.

[14:24] SERENA MELDER: So how do you put them in a church body, then, and keep them safe from other people's viewpoints? Because that's something that my parents, I think, didn't know how to do with me. We went to a ton. I can't even, like, list all the churches that I've been to, every congregation, like, non congregation. My parents actually, funny enough, have a church in their yard that they made their own church, they built their own church, so. And I've grown up with tongues and, like, demons being cast out of people I went to high school with, like, just a lot. And so I'm wondering how you protect your kids from other christians. Honestly, from those kind of extreme viewpoints or those scary viewpoints or that, you know, don't do that, you're gonna go to hell. And that's, like, really hard for a kid to hear. Like, oh, you know, all your choices, if you make the wrong ones, you're gonna burn. As a child, I just found that terrifying.

[15:14] KATE YOUNG: Yeah, it is terrifying. I want to ask you that question. I want to answer that question, but I'm going to ask you also how. A few recommendations. But I think what I tell my kids all the time, I don't think I can properly protect them from anything really. Right, right. But I do think that what I say to them is you are a child of the one true God and he loves you no matter what happens. He or she, I don't know, gender, I'm not going to get into that. But the creator of the universe loves you. And no matter what happens, and that is what I say to them once a day if I can, or more. Because I think if I do believe that's true, but I do not, that's the only undoing I think I can do from all the other heaviness.

[16:04] SERENA MELDER: Right. So it's not so much focused on right or wrong, it's just focused on, you need to know that you're loved and that it's unconditional. I like that.

[16:12] KATE YOUNG: So do you have recommendations? How would you.

[16:20] SERENA MELDER: Yeah, I think it's just you have to. I mean, you're already doing that, which is just you're being very careful, it sounds like, of, I think maybe knowing your own path to before you bring your kids into it. Like, my parents were searching, and in searching, I think they did a lot of unintended harm that they didn't mean to because they couldn't guide us because they were searching.

[16:39] KATE YOUNG: That's a really good point.

[16:41] SERENA MELDER: So I think kind of knowing your own values before you try to teach them to your kids is helpful, but I worry, like, my daughter is in. She's going in for it.

[16:51] KATE YOUNG: Okay.

[16:52] SERENA MELDER: And she said, mom, all the kids, they ask me where I go to church, and I tell them I don't go. And then they think that I'm weird or they want to know why. And I don't know what to tell them. So now I've just started lying and saying that we can't afford it. Is that okay? And I was like, well, baby, like, you don't have to pay to go to church. But I didn't know what to tell her. So I said, well, just tell them. I don't know that this is the right answer, but tell them that it's my fault. Tell them that I don't take you to church. It's not your choice. It's a choice at this point that I've made for you. And when you're old enough, you can totally make your own choice. But this is like, what I feel is best for you now.

[17:31] KATE YOUNG: Right?

[17:32] SERENA MELDER: So, yeah.

[17:34] KATE YOUNG: I love that she was able to tell you that, right? That she would tell you that she's lying about it or her I discomfort like that. That says that you probably have a pretty close relationship.

[17:47] SERENA MELDER: Oh, thank you. I feel like I struggle all the time, but there's signs that I'm doing some things right. And I think that's probably every parent, like, has that thing of like, oh, if I could just get this right this time.

[18:01] KATE YOUNG: It's true.

[18:02] SERENA MELDER: I have a question for you on Christianity that I'm so curious about. So I went to this conference and I had no idea it was a religious based conference. And I actually went through spirit, and it turned out that it was so, I mean, just not expecting it. It was triggering. And I haven't been to church in like a decade. Yeah. And the thing that gets me, it was great. And they had a lot of really great leaders, and they had people like Ron Howard on there and the former CEO of Disneyland. Just if this was like the kind of Christian I'd grown up with, I think that it would have motivated me and inspired me rather than made me feel unworthy and afraid and just like I couldn't do anything right. But one of the things that kept getting me over and over and over is that they would say, like, oh, if you're, you're feeling anxious or, you know, things that are. Contributes negative emotions that that's the enemy. Or that when you succeed, you know, if you persevere and you, you make this deal or you open this business, that that's because you're blessed. And that really kills me because I feel like it just takes away any kind of responsibility or credit to your, to your own self. And this was like a conference that, where they were talking to, like 300,000 people. And, I mean, your actions to me talking, that maybe that's not the way that you approach it. But that's one of the things about Christianity that really stumped me is people just like, I don't know, it just kind of seems like a scapegoat in some ways, I guess, of like, no, you did that. That was wonderful that you did that. Or like, no, you feel anxiety, like you're human. It's not the enemy. Like, it's. You've got a really full blade, and you're dealing with a lot, you know? And that's okay. You're not being attacked. Like, it's just hard.

[19:58] KATE YOUNG: Right. I feel like as. So I became a Christian around the age of 25, and I just accepted everything that was thrown my way. And it was pretty evangelical. And so that's what was the idea, that, like, bad emotions were not accepted. You can call it whatever you want, but they weren't accepted. Has been something that I've had to really walk my way out of and say, like, no, especially in the last couple of years. Like, if we can't figure out what healthy means to us and we can't talk about how we feel and that is okay, then there's something really wrong. Right. You can call it whatever name you want, but we have to take responsibility, and we have to model, all of us, each of us, whether we're christian or not, what it means to be a healthy human walking around this earth. Right. And so that's hard for me, too. I understand. I think I bought into that for some years. And my oldest two kids, my oldest two are fantastic in every way because they endured my early Christianity. Right?

[21:18] SERENA MELDER: So they endured it. Like, they embraced it or they endured it. They just learned from it.

[21:23] KATE YOUNG: I was more extreme, for sure. And so I think I. Anyway, yes, they endured, like, despite me is what I mean to say. So they were probably brought up with a little more of that messaging, like, bad emotions are bad, or, you know, and I don't. That's not how I believe right now, I think.

[21:45] SERENA MELDER: So why? Why is it important to you? Like, why? It's a funny thing because I think, you know, my kids are being raised without church and what I would call a liberal home. And I just think this is gonna sound tricky. I just think they're so lucky. Good, because I just feel like it's such a gift that they get to decide for themselves and that no one's telling them things. I mean, I'm sure people will tell them things that are harmful, but no one is coming down on them with all of these rules that they have to get right all the time. Yes. But then I hear people who have that kind of background. Like, you were saying that you kind of had hippies for parents. I thought, oh, I've always wanted hippie parents. My parents were really christian, so I've always wondered why people in their twenties get saved. Like, why would you. I've been saved like five times because I was afraid it wouldn't work and I can't, you know, like, seriously.

[22:48] KATE YOUNG: So. Okay, tell me your question. I feel like I could answer several in there.

[22:51] SERENA MELDER: Oh, I'm sorry. So my question is, I guess, what is the incentive, you think, for you to be a Christian and to raise your kid as christians when there's just a lot right now that's being assigned to Christianity that it sounds like you don't identify with? And even though there is value in some of those beliefs, I feel like I do have christian beliefs, even though I don't identify as a Christian, I believe in Jesus's teachings as far as, like, love is key. That's it. That's everything. So that would be, my question is, like, why?

[23:27] KATE YOUNG: That's a great question. So I am a christian today not because of what happens after I die. Like, that's never been important to me. I'm a Christian today because of the peace that I feel being a Christian. Like, the difference between not being a Christian and being a Christian, I think in my twenties, I looked and looked and looked, went to ashrams. I studied comparative religion. Like, I was clearly looking for something. And this is what suit, like, fit for me as kind of a contemplative personal practice. And so I have seen, I think it's just a matter of, like, my faith is strong and I believe that the God I know is bigger than all of the junk that is attached to Christianity down here.

[24:20] SERENA MELDER: Right. Well, and that's the thing. Is it hard to. I mean, it's not a term, but it's like your kids, it sounds like they're kind of like, in a sense of like a liberal minded Christian, of like, they're still thinking for themselves independently. Is that hard to be in like, a very conservative, very red state and almost have, like, moderate christian views?

[24:44] KATE YOUNG: It's increasingly hard because I think that the community that I, that my kid, the school, my kids are in a private christian school, and we chose that school because it's classical and it helps them think for themselves, is the kind of model of education, but it's much more conservative than I am. And so it's become increasingly hard because of that. Yeah. Yeah.

[25:13] SERENA MELDER: There was a woman at the conference, the christian conference, that I didn't know I was going to. And not all of the speakers were, you know, had, like, faith in there. Some of them were just, like, inspirational. And this girl's whole thing was about questions and different levels of questions to connect with people. And she did a great job. And at the end, she told us. She just stood there in front of us and told us, I just want you to know that before I came out on stage. And then she just started listening her into, like, I was really anxious, and I thought, I don't belong here. And I thought, I have nothing of value to tell these people. What am I doing? I could still run. And she's admitting that to everyone. And I almost just broke into tears because I have so many female friends that have told me that privately, and I think they think they're the only one. But here is this woman standing before these people of faith where I feel like I can't be perfect anymore. So I don't belong here with you saying, like, here are my imperfections, and here are the things that I struggle with. I do wish that the christian faith would just brought more humanity back to Christianity, honestly. So I'm just so happy to meet you, because I just kind of felt like there was no one that was of a christian faith that I could ever be friends with. And I think we could be friends.

[26:35] KATE YOUNG: I think so, too.

[26:36] SERENA MELDER: But I saw that and thought, oh, I'm not gonna like her. She's gonna be mean.

[26:42] KATE YOUNG: I'm interested. I'm glad. I like you, too. I'm interested in that, your inclusion of the pride events, because I think I actually assumed that you may be a lesbian based on your inclusion of that. I just didn't know. So why is that important to you? Talk to me about that a little bit.

[27:06] SERENA MELDER: So, this is. I mean, this is personal, but I remember being a kid, and we watched the show where this woman's son had told his mom that he was gay, and it was, like, the worst thing that could ever happen to her. And my mom was like, oh, I never do that. All those things. And then I remember being in college, and I don't know that I was overtly attracted to women, but just in college, figuring myself out, and I remember sitting in a hot bath and just crying and crying and crying because I was so afraid that there was a possibility that I was attracted to women. And I did everything I could to make that go away. And now that I'm older, I honestly wonder if I think I would have dated women had I not been so terrified that I would go to hell and that my family would disown me. And now I think about how that poor boy must have felt. I mean, his mother is on television, you know, just shaming him for who he is. And I just. I was kind of forced into how I identify, and I don't want that to happen to my children. So that's why pride is so hugely important to me, because I felt like Christianity took a lot from me, and pride shows me that the things that Christina said weren't okay are okay, and I want everyone to know they're okay.

[28:39] KATE YOUNG: Yeah.

[28:40] SERENA MELDER: So that's why it's so important to me.

[28:43] KATE YOUNG: Thank you for sharing that.

[28:44] SERENA MELDER: Thank you. Thank you.

[28:48] KATE YOUNG: Yeah.

[28:49] SERENA MELDER: And, yeah, I was gonna have you participated in, and I don't mean this in a judgmental way, but it does seem that conference, man, it's weird that we're having this discussion after that conference, because had we had it before that conference, I was very. Almost maybe a little bit becoming a little.

[29:05] KATE YOUNG: A little hateful.

[29:07] SERENA MELDER: And it kind of showed me a different side of, like, oh, these aren't hateful christians. These are, like, motivated production christians, and they're still blaming the enemy for things.

[29:15] KATE YOUNG: But that's fine.

[29:16] SERENA MELDER: We'll ignore that for now.

[29:20] KATE YOUNG: But I love how you put that. So good.

[29:23] SERENA MELDER: But one of the pastors at the very end was saying, like, essentially, look, we're doing it like I'm speaking. You know, we're doing it wrong. Like, we should be advocating for each other's rights. And I thought, you know, if you think about even something like pride or black life matters, if you are representing Jesus teachings, aren't you in the front of the parade?

[29:50] KATE YOUNG: I know.

[29:51] SERENA MELDER: So is that, like, something that you think about with your kids and in teaching them their faith of these things that tend to be controversially christian? Like, christians can't support pride, but, like, jesus, I feel like, would be in a pride parade. And I feel like he would make a gay couple of wedding cake if he knew how to bake, you know, like, it wouldn't matter to him because he would love them. So is that. How do you address that with your kids? And I guess, how do you feel about that?

[30:15] KATE YOUNG: I think that I will say some of my kids are more conservative than I am. Right. So it's been tricky. I think with the most recent vote we had, I fell on a different side than even my husband. And so I wasn't really that comfortable talking to some of my adult kids about it because I just felt like I wanted to respect what they believed and let them figure it out.

[30:43] SERENA MELDER: Right.

[30:45] KATE YOUNG: But I do think that my relationship, my view of Christianity is that it's a personal relationship and that I'm not going to tell someone who they should love or not love. Right. So that's not my business. I haven't. I've been on so many sides of this, I have to tell you. I have. My college roommate didn't stand up in my wedding because the church that I got married in was doing a christian ministry to help people get out of the gay lifestyle, seemingly because they wanted to. Right. So this has been a round and round, but I. I don't really believe that being gay is against God, for sure. Like, I just don't know.

[31:37] SERENA MELDER: Right.

[31:37] KATE YOUNG: So I think we're supposed to love everyone. That's the only thing I know for sure.

[31:43] SERENA MELDER: Do you try to approach it with a loving heart?

[31:45] KATE YOUNG: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I hate that anyone would think that they couldn't be who they are because of a faith belief system. Like, that's absurd to me, you know, but that's. That's the message.

[31:57] SERENA MELDER: Right. Well, right. And if some of your children are more conservative than you, it sounds like because you give them the freedom to choose, that they believe more conservatively than you. Right. So. But not figured out, they're afraid that that's, like, the only right way.

[32:08] KATE YOUNG: Yeah, I hope not. I hope not. I don't know. Yeah, I'm curious about. Oh, go ahead.

[32:19] SERENA MELDER: Oh, no. I think that we've actually just kind of did that on our own.

[32:23] KATE YOUNG: I'd love to hear more about kind of your relationship with your parents. Do you feel like you've been able to kind of in learning and knowing more about who you are and where you stand? Do you feel like you've been able to show up with them differently? What's your relationship like? How was that?

[32:40] SERENA MELDER: It was resentful for a long time. And then I realized that my relationship with my daughter was struggling because I was so mad at my mom. And so the last time they came to visit, I sat down with her and just told her that I felt like I couldn't have a relationship with her because when I told her something great that I did, it was, oh, praise the Lord. Praise Jesus. Glory to God. And when I would tell her something that I was going through that was really hard, she would say, oh, you know, like, it's God's will, and I'll pray for you, and the Lord has his hands around you. Like, I hesitated when I was thinking, do I bring this up or not? Because I know it's hard, but I read, of course, that you lost your dad, and I'm so sorry that you lost your dad. My sister in law, she had colon cancer in her lungs, and she had five months to live. And she got Covid in January and was gone in two weeks. And during that time, my mom kept telling me that we prayed for Sheston, and she's gonna get out of bed, and she's gonna walk again. And it was so devastatingly hurtful to me for her to say that, because Sheston was gonna die, and that was just it. And so her beliefs took away her ability to be there for me, and I just needed my mom. And I got, like, her faith instead. And it wasn't helpful to me because there was nothing there.

[34:25] KATE YOUNG: She. Right. Wow. That's so powerful. That's such a cautionary tale for me. I mean it in the best way.

[34:32] SERENA MELDER: Oh, thank you.

[34:36] KATE YOUNG: When you were talking about how she would respond to positive versus negative news because it didn't seem like it was ever seeing you.

[34:43] SERENA MELDER: And that's what I told her. I said, I need you to see me. And when you tell me things, I don't need you to tell me about your faith. Tell me about yourself. I want to hear about you. I need to know my mom. Like, can we please take faith out of our relationship? And it's still in there, but she's done so much better. And I think going back to the very beginning of the conversation, that's the one thing I think is the saving grace, is that my mom, despite all the things that I guess I kind of blame her for or wish that she would have just learned sooner, she really works hard to learn now, so I really respect that about her.

[35:21] KATE YOUNG: That's really great. Yeah, that's really great. I'm sorry about your sister in law. That's super sad.

[35:28] SERENA MELDER: Oh, thank you. I'm sorry about your dad.

[35:30] KATE YOUNG: Yeah.

[35:33] SERENA MELDER: Is it something where he had cancer for a really long time, he was.

[35:36] KATE YOUNG: Ill, and, I mean, honestly, the hardest part about it was we couldn't have a funeral. And he was a big funeral guy. Like, he would go to, like, the janitor's uncle's best friend's funeral, you know.

[35:49] SERENA MELDER: Paid tribute to, like, everyone's fun.

[35:50] KATE YOUNG: It's really important.

[35:51] SERENA MELDER: So sweet.

[35:52] KATE YOUNG: And we. I mean, I think we could have had one a year or two later, but we just. We did a little memorial, and that was it. But. But I felt just that closure piece is hard not to have in that. In the way I think he would have wanted it.

[36:08] SERENA MELDER: Right. So does it kind of feel like it was unfair to him?

[36:10] KATE YOUNG: In a way, a little bit, yeah. But I do think he was. He. He was getting weaker and weaker, and he was a really proud man and really didn't like to show weakness at all. And so it was, I would say, fortunate that he kind of declined quickly and went, like, in his sleep because I think had he didn't really suffer like he could have.

[36:37] SERENA MELDER: Right.

[36:37] KATE YOUNG: And so I'm grateful for that because I think that's what he would have wanted, you know?

[36:41] SERENA MELDER: Right.

[36:42] KATE YOUNG: Yeah. Yeah.

[36:43] SERENA MELDER: So I know that you're clearly an adult. Yes. My sister in law has a nine year old little girl, and I'm wondering if you have any advice for me, because it's really hard to navigate because she was also a close friend of mine, and she asked me to watch out for her daughter. But they live in Arizona, and you've lost a parent. And I was just. And you seem to have a really beautiful outlook on the world. So I was just wondering if you had any advice on maybe just how to support her or connect with her or just those things.

[37:17] KATE YOUNG: I'm sure you're doing the only things I can think of which are just trying to check in with her on some regular basis. And I think letting her talk about her mom probably matters, even telling her stories or. I don't know. I think grieving our culture, I don't think knows how to grieve well at all. We just kind of ignore it and move on. But I think honoring however you think honoring her mother to her would be really important.

[37:48] SERENA MELDER: So thank you.

[37:50] KATE YOUNG: That's really hard. Yeah.

[38:01] SERENA MELDER: Oh, we did that.

[38:04] KATE YOUNG: Yeah. I feel like we've covered a lot of ground.

[38:08] SERENA MELDER: We have.

[38:10] KATE YOUNG: Oh, there. You guys don't need to go political.

[38:14] SERENA MELDER: If you don't want to, because that.

[38:15] KATE YOUNG: Was all fascinating, but.

[38:19] SERENA MELDER: Well, I do have one more quick question on your faith. So are there aspects of it that have been negative for you, or do you think just kind of the over conservative rhetoric is maybe the part that, I mean, I can't put words into your mouth, but is there a part of it, I guess, that you've had to be careful of or cautious of?

[38:46] KATE YOUNG: Yeah, I mean, I have. Part of my story, which we will just have to have coffee, is that I spent about ten years in. I would say it was like a cult, like a christian cult. It was very extreme. There was authority given to one particular person. Freedoms were taken. It was very traumatic. And I think because, like I said, when I got. I kind of got married and became a Christian all at once. And I adore my husband. I think he is. I mean, he literally is my favorite person in the world. And somehow we're able to escape that with our marriage intact, which is literally a miracle. But those ten years of we lived with another couple and raised our kids together and really thought we were doing, like, a church thing, and it just got away from us. We just. It just became really, really destructive. And so that is the baggage I carry around. Right. And it's the story that I tell pretty willingly because I think it's a cautionary tale. I think that I was. I thought we could be like the book of acts, and, you know, and we had no one. We had no mentors. We had no one we were answering to, really. And it became more and more insular, and that was really destructive. And so, yes, Christianity has harmed me. Yeah, for sure.

[40:17] SERENA MELDER: But you still see the value.

[40:18] KATE YOUNG: I do. I do. And that. Yeah. And that's. I think that's when it became my own, because I had to walk out of that.

[40:26] SERENA MELDER: Oh, I love that.

[40:27] KATE YOUNG: And see what was.

[40:27] SERENA MELDER: I do love that. I do love that. And there is sort of value in seeing kind of the. Maybe it wasn't the worst, but for simplicity, kind of the worst aspect of something, and then being able to say, okay, now that I know how bad it can be, I know how to actually make it a good, valuable thing for me. And I'm hoping, honestly, that that's what happens in our political system, is that things have just gone so upside down that eventually it comes to a point of like, okay, let's come back to bipartisanship and reason and the focus, which is all voices, all people, all Americans. And I just hope that we get to see that, like, in our lifetime, because we have seen so many crazy things.

[41:14] KATE YOUNG: I know.

[41:16] SERENA MELDER: So, from that experience, what's the thing that you feel like you've had to heal from the most from those ten years?

[41:28] KATE YOUNG: I think I lost all my power. I don't think I had a lot of power that I knew of. Like, I don't think I really knew who I was. And I. It was like the perfect storm. Right. I didn't have a lot of boundaries growing up, so. Right. I was looking for structure, and then I joined a cult. So, I mean, I'm using the word cult pretty loosely, but it kind of shows up that way. So ask me the question again, just.

[41:59] SERENA MELDER: What you've kind of had to heal from the most from that experience.

[42:02] KATE YOUNG: So I think my power, I think being powerless and figuring out my voice and what matters to me and just being mine and I'm old enough, there's some loss there because I literally feel like some of these things I should have figured out in my thirties. Right. But I was doing this other thing, giving up my power in my thirties. And so trying to take it back and modeling that for my kids has been really important. And I come from really strong women. I mean, I have these. My mom has five sisters, or she's one of five, and they are forces of nature in the most wonderful way. And so I've come to appreciate that so much.

[42:49] SERENA MELDER: Right.

[42:50] KATE YOUNG: But yes. And I don't know that Christianity does a fantastic job of empowering women. So that's the other piece that has become really important, and it's hard to know when to speak out.

[43:03] SERENA MELDER: Right, right. I think it's interesting that we kind of have the same story in the flip, because being raised in the super Christian, all over the place, conservative environment that I was, I felt like I never learned how to have power. And so the ten years that you were losing yours is the ten years that I was figuring out that I didn't have any. And so now here we are, women in our forties, just owning our business.

[43:31] KATE YOUNG: I love that.

[43:33] SERENA MELDER: I do, too. I do, too. And I think you're right. It is hard to know where to stand up. And I'm realizing that I think women are the next voice. I really do. And I want the exact same thing for my kids that you want for your kids. I want them to know that they have their own power and they can make their own choices. And so I love that we kind of came to that at different paths.

[43:56] KATE YOUNG: I do, too.

[43:56] SERENA MELDER: It's neat.

[43:57] KATE YOUNG: It is inspiring.

[43:58] SERENA MELDER: It is inspiring.

[44:09] KATE YOUNG: I'm gonna ask you, what are your hopes for the future?

[44:15] SERENA MELDER: Oh, I feel like you should go first. I feel like I don't know right now. So I'll try to make it quick because we only have five minutes. But one of the things that I really struggle with is fear. And so I've gotten some resources that, of course, I obtained and then avoided for, like, a month and then started slowly listening to. But I don't think that I'm in a place where I can even think about the future. I just have to think about today. Right now. My hope for the future is that I'm giving myself credit for being better tomorrow than I was today and better in two days than it was two days ago. That's my hope for the future, is that I can teach my kids a growth mindset, and I can have a growth mindset and that it will make an impact in my community because I'm with you there. I think community is so important, and we need to find it. So my hope for the future is we find our community, and it's strong and it's inclusive.

[45:03] KATE YOUNG: Yeah. I love that. It's so good.

[45:04] SERENA MELDER: What is your hope for the future?

[45:08] KATE YOUNG: I have a lot of hopes for the future. I do struggle to. I don't feel that. I used to really struggle with fear, and I don't feel. I feel, like, not as fearful about the future as I probably should, based on the current situation. But I think that's. That's where faith comes in a little bit. Like, I just have to trust that it can't. It's just, like, kind of the talking heads, you know, on either side. It's like, that can't happen. That's ridiculous. Like, you know, I just. So I'm hopeful for the future, and I'm hopeful for even this in our community. I think that the fact that one small step came to Wichita makes me excited. You know, the fact that even it was 50 50 surprised me. Like, I don't, you know, on each side of the political spectrum, that I didn't know that, and I wouldn't have guessed that, and it surprised me, too, so. Yeah, so, yeah.

[46:14] SERENA MELDER: And you talk about hope. It might sound cheesy, but this conversation with you has given me so much hope, so thank you for that.

[46:20] KATE YOUNG: I'm so glad. Me, too. It's been fun. It's been really fun.

[46:25] SERENA MELDER: Yeah.