Seth Williams and Jesse James

00:02 Hello, my name is Seth Hunter Williams. I am 28 years old. Today's date is Friday, October 18th, 2019. We're in Dallas, Texas and I am talking with my partner Jesse James.

00:16 My name is Jesse James. I am 37 years old. Today is Friday October 18th, 2019. We are in Dallas, Texas and I'm interviewing Seth Hunter Williams. Who is my fiance.

00:31 All right. So I guess we started a conversation last night that we thought would be good for this type of event. So if you want to give a little preference of what we're talking about, so we went back and forth quite a bit on what our conversation was going to be about what we wanted to talk about and what we wanted to address and we finally landed on the idea of a life of Simplicity or a life of being extraordinary and the idea of do we live extraordinary lives? Are we extraordinary people or really is our life a very simple life and we're just simple normal kind of people right? And so it stands from the pressure that I'm putting on myself and and you about this conversation and that I'm a theater teacher and you are an English teacher for 13 years and we always told our students and I still do my

01:31 Students that plays our stories are movies or anyting are going to be about extraordinary people doing extraordinary things. They might be normal at the beginning of the story or play or whatever it is. But then something extraordinary happens to them that they have to act accordingly. And so it's that it's that idea of Are We extraordinary enough to Warrant doing something like this? Well, and you know, I did teach English for 13 years and one of the things we talked about but if it was the hero's journey, you know that idea of somebody who's born to simple simple Town simple play Simple personality being given a quest being asked to take some kind of Journey and through that Journey having self-discovery discovering power discovering themselves discovering the world around them.

02:31 I'm becoming extraordinary because of the way that the world shaped them. And so that's kind of part of our conversation that we had was you no have we in some way become extraordinary or are we still stuck in that beginning place and are still that simple person before they became a hero. So you mention like a simple simple childhood simple birth simple town and then I quit listening cuz I came up with a question. I wanted to ask you so like so like, how was your childhood childhood's simple? Well, I mean I grew up and I'm kind of suburban town near Fort Worth called Weatherford and you know a group on a little bit of land a little bit of acreage, you know how to animals on and off of what kind of animal is we had chickens and goats for like two days Inn.

03:31 Into goats kept getting out of their pain and so we decided not to have goats anymore and my dad had a horse and then when we moved because we moved I've a huge amount away a quarter mile away. And then we actually had the horse on the land with us and we bought a second horse cuz it was a nag project cuz you know, we were country like that Country Bumpkin. Yeah, absolutely. But but you know, it was just a small town small situation. Nothing really big happened. Nothing extraordinary happened. We weren't important people in the town. We weren't well known in the town. We just kind of went on and lived our lives and and it was that Simplicity that I I feel you know, something I disagree. I really feel like you think you're talking to me. You can call me. Okay. Well true you disagree.

04:31 When I said last night that I felt like in a lot of ways we still do just lead simple lives. We aren't necessarily extraordinary people and I know you disagreed with that. Yeah, I believe the phrase was if I'm living a simple life. I'm just going to kill myself which is Extreme. Stream and probably not the best thing to say, but I even though I grew up in a much smaller town than you I have always been

05:07 In the public. My dad was a preacher of one of the two churches that was in town. My mom was a schoolteacher. My dad was also on the school board of the school that I went to how many people are in your high school graduating class graduating class 365 15 in mine. So it is so I think I have figured it out that I mean you you come from while yes a small town, but it was a time that you could hide in if you wanted to and I did and you did and I don't mean your mother has a very public job. You know, she shoot at one point was the vice-president of a bank

05:50 To wear that is very much in the public eye. But you know, she could clock out at the end of the day and not have to worry about it anymore. We're like, I remember there were times at 3 or 4 in the morning that people were knocking on the door so that they could talk to Dad course they were drunk or you know had just committed something that

06:12 They were feeling regretful about and when it's you know guidance from the pastor about but but there was there was no where to hide where I grew up. I mean with 15 kids and one class to me as a teacher now working in an urban School 15 kids in a class has a dream to come in so that I could work with kids one-on-one and I and I think that there even though it was a much more spread out area. There was nowhere for me to hide everyone us everyone knew my dad everyone knew my mom and I have two sisters two older sisters and they were pretty influential.

07:01 As well pretty popular kids bringing play basketball for a while.

07:07 And Chelsea was a basketball team manager, and I was a cheerleader, but but I think that I feel extraordinary just because

07:22 I have to feel extraordinary.

07:25 Swimming since well, and I think the life that you've lived the things that you've done the person who you are like in a lot of ways you you have made yourself extraordinary. I feel like you know being in that small town and being in those kinds of families and things like you got to feel what it was like to be extraordinary. We're like, I lived a life where I had to hide and I did hide, you know, I was that quiet shy nerdy kid who died in the lunchroom corner with his huge thick books reading I was that kid who just didn't have a ton of friends. I was a kid who enjoyed blending in and living that simple life and not getting a whole lot of recognition and that's not to say I haven't ever gotten recognition because you know who I was

08:25 This is a kid who I am as an adult is so incredibly different. You know why I kind of went from that kid who hit and for a long time I've been was that adults who who did do some things that that you know, people think are weird and stand out at what volunteering for a haunted house for 12 years piano playing a a hillbilly character every night at heart a lot of background to pull rank would call that emotional recall. Okay, but, you know doing that for for 12 years every Friday and Saturday night and then eventually getting to the point where you know, I turned around and not only did I do that character, but then I taught other people how to be there care.

09:25 You know things like that strange things that I've done but don't you think like don't you think being an in that position of what Colin actually Azran at the haunted house that we used to volunteer for do you not think that that was an extraordinary?

09:46 Thing that an extraordinary person would do

09:51 I mean not I've never thought of it that way. I mean hadn't considered that to be extraordinary and maybe maybe it's because to me was just life. It was just who I was in that moment. It was what I was doing in that moment. And so maybe to me it didn't feel extraordinary. I guess the only reason why I would consider it extraordinary is because

10:19 In recounting it to other people they found it extraordinary because it's so out of the ordinary if if you'll indulge me it is extra ordinary, but like

10:33 Like to me it's so out of the norm that it does fall in that extraordinary.

10:42 Realm

10:45 That makes sense. I mean it it really does like people looked up to you people respected. You are a high you were leadership which is what the position fell under that people look up to you as a leader they came to you for advice. They came to you, you know the out to answer questions and in came with you came to you with problems that you give them solutions for you give him Solutions even when they didn't ask for them.

11:17 So do you not find that extraordinary? I mean

11:22 When you say it like that, like when your your retelling it and I'm hearing it like yeah, those are things that do seem xtraordinary or out of the realm of the typical lives that people lead. But like I said to me it was just that was my life. That was what I did. That's who I was and so to me that I guess it it seems simple to me because right that's what I was around. That's who I was around. So are you just not extraordinary because you don't think you're extraordinary?

11:57 Scream there's a possibility of that and that's probably that hold over from who I was as a kid. I got so talk to me about the journey between and is like super shy kid to you wearing long johns in a barrel.

12:15 With two Bells attached to your bottom button running around entertaining the people of for Texas. What do you mean like like like

12:27 How do you even make the connection are you were talking about earlier that you were super shy and all you wanted to do is fade in and you didn't have any friends to like like what was what was the Paradigm? What was the shift there? What happened?

12:45 I think

12:48 So some of it I think was

12:51 You know, I had a couple years of college where I finally was away from family. I finally was away from your family held you back. I mean there's there's a possibility of that or that I had to fulfill particular roles within that family. And so, you know, I had to be who they were expecting me to be who you expected. They expected you to be all sure if you want to get like incredibly complex with the thoughts. Yes. I mean it was who I thought they needed me to be who I thought they wanted me to be and then I went to college and I was still bad that quiet person even the first couple years in college, but then I started volunteering at the haunted house. And of course ironically zoom in on that like did your mom just call you up and say hey, let's go volunteer at a haunted house.

13:51 Like what was so tell me the first time that you went to volunteer at Hangman's so my brother and I both left time and I both left for college and mom was suffering with empty nest syndrome pretty bad because he's just gotten a divorce. No. No, this was one of the worst of the worst came after I finish college women's on your father's side, which is probably the argument right that it was because of Hangman's that he there was some of it but you know, Mom had empty nest syndrome. And so we were talking about what we could do to spend time together because yes, I would go home on the weekends sometimes. I mean, I was only getting an hour away from home inside drive home on the weekends sometimes but you know, we just didn't get to see each other often. And so when I was a kid when I was in early High School freshman soft

14:51 Mom had been asked to manage to build create manage a small haunted house for Boy Scouts and him because I Was A Boy Scout and she should kind of gotten a love for it and a bug for it, but she didn't have a creative outlet for it. I don't know how much I'm going to interrupt you. So we're coming up on Halloween and we just got off the phone with your mother about having to work all weekend because she turns her house into a haunted house her yard her front yard and John house do before she did the stuff at the pythian home with the Boy Scouts. Are there any like Halloween activities that she needed or so before she should to the pythian home haunted house. She we had gone to Six Flags with a church group one time and had gone through the haunted houses and had a good time then.

15:51 And then of the Six Flags haunted houses, I don't know if they still are but they used to be a couple of Boy Scout volunteer haunted houses at Six Flags. So we went and volunteered a couple of times at the Six Flags haunted house. That's just kind of how it all started. And then she did the pythian home haunted house and then we decided that that was going to be what we would do in college to you know to spend time together and to be together. So I don't even remember how I think we have gone to Hangman's at one point maybe like, I don't remember exactly when that was but I have a light vague memory of going to Hangman's and so we were talking about it. You know. I said, well mom really enjoyed doing the haunted house at the pythian home. Like what if we found a haunted house to volunteer for and I think that I don't know how Hangman's came up other than maybe because we have gone that once and they are and they were the only

16:51 Volunteer haunted house as far as I know of at that point yet, that would have gnats like halfway, but you can where you were and where she was because it was in Fort Worth and she was in Weatherford money in Arlington. And so we decided hey, yeah, let's try it out and see if it's something that's for us. And so we went and volunteered and you know 12 years later went from I think I've painted the first day and I think you've heard the story before about how Mom was actually confused for a community service. Yes. Yes. Oh Hangman's would hire they wouldn't hire but if they was a group of people that were doing community service. They could just come in and they could volunteer Hangman's cat Hangman's was a charity haunted house at the time they could volunteer and they they could get their service hours that way like Hangman's was in a credit.

17:51 Community service right group and so they saw a lot of yeah, they thought for sure but they thought she was a pretty servisfirst on her first day working cuz I got in there earlier in your mother such a prim and proper. I mean on the outside she she gives such a such a prim and proper put together woman and so then mistaking her for attics that at one point was featured on the Travel Channel and mom was one of the people who is chosen to be interviewed by the Travel Channel people. And so one of the things that shock to them was that she said. Oh, yeah. I'm a vice president for a bank. And so there's actually I don't have ever shown you the trouble to now we solve

18:51 We saw the what was it like pickers American Pickers or something like that and I can't believe I've never showed me the Trap music and we were there when cheaters yet was there and we all still on the periphery and watched a lot back. Down. All right, so so so not to spend too much time on your mother, haha.

19:26 Coming back to that. You said earlier that your parents were an extra your parents weren't extraordinary but like Halloween hurt her yard is packed full of kids and families. And there was one time that the fire department had to come out to shut the street down because people were stopping in front of the house and it was calling the street. I mean, she's known for that people. It's funny when we're out working in the yard and we'll do like someone's driving by cuz the likes stop and watch us put things together and like yes to others just simple like it's we're just having fun doing whatever other people is extraordinary.

20:12 I mean you have a really good point there. I know we do course you do cuz you're always right but I mean that makes sense. So I guess really I don't it's weird because like, you know, I think sometimes about how people view me and how people judge me but I guess there's always that negative spin to that rather than stopping to think about how unusual my life really is and how unusual your life is, you know with me and before we met what do you mean? Well just I mean, you've had your own experiences the of everything that you talked about with your childhood of your dad being the pastor and constantly being in the public eye and people watching you and all those kinds of things, you know, especially the fact that yes, you went to a town where you had 15 people in your class. And I mean, I wouldn't call it a community.

21:12 There were 200 kids from kindergarten to 12th grade.

21:18 And and with your personality, I'm sure you stuck out like a sore thumb still do well, that's true. But, you know like the whole idea of you cuz it cuz it didn't you come out at church know. I thought you had no I came out. I don't like a retreat.

21:45 But I didn't like watch the front of the trash and say listen up folks.

21:51 I because I have done that before. I came out a sophomore year 16 year old I had told a couple of people like all my teachers knew. Oh my friend cuz cuz I was one of those kids that like the teachers going to be my best friend. I remember an eighth grade my math teacher. Mr. Rod who is my favorite teacher in like Junior High had would have lunch detention. So if we acted out in her class, you would have to come to her room to serve lunch detention. You can go to the gym and play games and when I ever I acted up in class I could not come to her room and I had to go to the gym.

22:51 What were you talking about? I was talking about how you were talking about your childhood that you felt when I was 16 was extraordinary. So I came out to a couple of to a couple of friends and then we went on a church retreat in like February. I think it was and I was really close to my youth minister at the time.

23:20 And there was a evening activity that we did that we were like in a dark room and they had you know, really soft music playing and things like that and it was just one of those like open your soul and

23:38 Except Jesus. Situation and it I mean it really had an effect on me. Like I remember just breaking down weeping because I knew what I was and I knew that the church would accept it and so over like to the left on the wall was this cross that was made out of duct tape Texas y'all and there were like little sheets of paper and you were to write you know, whatever was on your mind. Whatever was weighing on you. If you have any sins that you wanted to confess and things like that and you fold it up and he stuck it on the cross because Jesus Took at and you don't have to worry about it anymore. And so I did that and I wrote I'm gay on the paper and I stuck it up on the wall.

24:31 And I freaked out whenever I left cuz after that we were all dismissed because I knew they had to be taken down at some point and I have a very distinctive handwriting as to where it is illegible. And so I knew that whatever whenever they took them down.

24:53 They would know it was me. So I kind of felt that whole car. I'm might as well just confess and tell him so I went in after all the kids is left and it was just kind of the adults that were sitting there talking and I was like I want to talk to you and all of this stuff and so I told him and I said, I don't I don't want to be this anymore because I want God to love me and I don't think that he will this way and he was very supportive. He told me of

25:27 X and height like he hinted at that. He had had a relationship with another boy when he was in high school or things like that. Which in my 16 year old hormone raised mine was like, oh tell me more but there is it just me know but I trusted him so when I went home after the weekend, I knew I had I mean it was out. I knew I had to tell so the person that I was going to tell with my sister Chelsea who was living at home at the time and I remember like really sitting on the edge of the bed and saying you have to do this you have to do is you have to go tell her and I was like, okay here I go. I'm going to do it. I got up. I went out of my room. I went into her room and she had already left.

26:27 Till I go hang out with friends and I was like

26:32 So I'm being my dramatic self. I wrote a I think it was like three pages of this dramatic monologue that I subsequently and it was a Sunday night because we had to I had to wait for Dad to get home from church till I stand in front of them and I just let it all out and I was bawling and everything and it's one of the weirdest we're watching inside out in class. So it's someone use a term from inside out. It's one of my core memories of my life. My mother was openly like weeping.

27:10 And she said I just don't understand why we have to tell each other that but not in a bad way, like like not you just gave me this information that I don't accept it. It was more of like why can't you just be you like why do you have to tell everyone?

27:31 Like cuz she doesn't know why she doesn't understand where gay people come from right? Cuz she's not gay and my dad was really quiet for a long time. And the first thing he said to me after I told him that I was gay. He looked me in the eye and he said don't tell anyone.

27:51 And to me that's like stuck.

27:55 But that asshole right and so I don't know. Yeah, I know I haven't told anyone when it was like my parents were the last people to know so I just always stuck with me about

28:13 Don't tell anyone and I think that's where that double edged sword of living a public life comes into play because he didn't want me to tell anyone not from my safety before his because he couldn't have high outside those four walls of our home. He couldn't have an imperfect life. So is that

28:36 Are those words part of the reason why you feel like you have to live an extraordinary life?

28:43 Because I have to tell everyone but yeah.

28:47 Yeah, I mean, I mean I

28:53 Yeah.

28:55 I mean, I don't think it's because of that one instance cuz I feel

29:00 I feel like I've all it's always been there that feeling that I have to live this extraordinary life.

29:07 Like you said earlier, you have to live an extraordinary life or what's the point right? Like I I could not imagine.

29:17 Waking up

29:20 Clocking into a job

29:24 Doing the job.

29:26 And then going home. I mean, that's what I do every day, but I do it with a flourish that makes it extraordinary. You know, I'm a I'm a theater teacher so I get to perform.

29:37 Every damn day and I'm I'm not doing that and I have to work. I'm a custom framer. So I get to artistically create custom pieces for people and yes, I'm just putting it together, but I designed it for them to know we design, you know to take these pieces of art to take these pieces of Art and to put our own stink on it.

30:05 To me that's extraordinary cuz people will be it will have that are in their home 450 odd years and I did it. I was the one that designed it you kind of live in all these people's homes a tiny bit more creative Soul lives in all those people's homes. And if me and a tiny bit of your creative soul will go with every kid who does a show with you, you know, that's that's something to me that is incredible that that you were giving those kids being a theater teacher giving those kids a gift of art the gift of the theater of the gift of creativity and I think that's one of the things that early on in the relationship drew me to you was that you I mean, let's face it. I guess my feelings of being simple were drawn to your

30:59 Constant being extraordinary and constant being living out loud and wanting the attention and needing the attention that fact that you do all of that because you leave such an impression on people like every person who sees you whether it's seized asset that you've built or sees a show that you've directed or sees you in a show like they take a little bit of you with them each time. And that's where your extraordinariness comes from is that that you were doing something feeder. That is such a Public Act of such a public action that makes you so extraordinary. I mean, I just I think back to like so you you kind of called me out on okay, let's talk about hangman.

31:59 Who created the community players of Stephenville that was fighting created? I didn't create it. I just took took it over. It would have been given to me when you took it over and you for a brief time exploded with art in Stephenville. I mean, you know, you you had several incredible shows that people came to see in loved and you know, I remember just having conversations with you where you talked about like oneyng to share art with communities that don't get to share heart because I think I think art wall art is a vague term anyways, but but in my experience a theater our community that doesn't have theater doesn't breathe. It doesn't have life to it it there is such.

32:56 Psychology that goes on in a show where we're all sitting together in the same room and we're sharing the same experience for seeing the same story. We're seeing these peoples extraordinary actions that that wants that curtain closes we can turn to each other and discuss and say, oh man that really reminds me of blue to blur a you know, something like that. And so so to me if a community is not doing that at all, it's not living inside community and even in my small community of how could it be

33:34 That had 200 kids K through 12. We had we didn't have an established theater, but we did one act play every year and we and they came and they knew how to act at the theater and they knew how to react to what was going on. And so it was still a community that valued theater other than were going to give her money or time to it. They still knew the valley and understood the value of it. Well and you were the extraordinary star and all the middle of it. I was cuz you like acted I'm very selfish the sounds very conceited right now. Yeah, it was cuz you acted you I think you directed right like in high school are already directing shows the teachers would like sign the paperwork.

34:28 And I would do pretty much everything else. I mean so you really have had the opportunity to live an extraordinary life because of your Arts because of who won because of who you are. I mean, you just exude this personality of being extraordinary and being somebody who people should pay attention to and but then through your art like getting that recognition and having people watching you and taking that little bit of you away with each show like that to me is extraordinary. Thank you before we wrap up. What what do you want to leave behind?

35:20 Wow, so I'll go first cuz it's getting tagged onto kind of what you said. Like. I just want to be remembered like I just want it when I go. I still want people to remember me. It was a it was teaching a lesson on Greek Theater a couple of weeks ago that really struck like like one guy stepped out of the chorus and started playing characters thespis and like there are there's now an Honor Society that's like dedicated to him like an entire.

35:58 History of fesbian because of this one guy so he's remembered and so I think maybe that's why I do art why you know, I don't only do theater. I also know quilt. I also know when the mood strikes me I'll paint or draw a little not a lot because I'm not very good at it. But it's like theater is such a fleeting thing. Like you're there it happens it's gone. And so I think that's why I've attached myself to this quilt Community because we're still looking at quilts from like 400 years ago and they could be completely wrong. But but there's still some kind of memory of them there still some kind of history of them. So,

36:48 That's what I want to leave behind. I want to I want to be remembered and I want to be remembered in a good way.

36:54 I not that reminds me of a lot of discussions of literature that I had, you know in college and in high school and this idea that people wrote about those they loved to preserve them to make them immortal. Like I think that's even the the premise of a lot of Shakespeare's sonnets the idea that I'm going to set down who you are in this sonnet. So that people will remember who you are. And you do the same thing with all of the art that you do is you will be immortal through what you've created.

37:35 I know what about you? I just want to know like what do I want to leave behind? I want to leave behind the idea that I've helped people. I want to leave behind the idea of numbly me helping people but other people helping people like I ain't no. Yes, like I love that idea of being remembered and then leaving a legacy but I think the Legacy that I want to to leave as a legacy of of people helping people have people doing good things for people, you know, I think that's that's part of the reason why maybe maybe one we work well together is because you want that recognition lion and I want to be that person who's behind the scenes like that's that's what I want my legacy to be

38:35 I'm just a soffit Susie did asshole that's like it's all about me. But you know two totally behind that Legacy of being that person who is behind the scenes who was supporting and who is helping and who is doing the right thing, you know, like thinking back to what we talked about at Hangman's being an actor, you know, the Legacy that I wanted to leave was not being an actor but all of the other actors that I helped all of the other kids that I trained to be an actor themselves, I think that's the Legacy that I want to leave behind. You know, what else you can leave behind. What is that your cooking dinner? I was there was going to be some kind of transition there, but I lost that didn't work.

39:24 Yeah, I know.

39:26 But I'm ready for you to cook dinner. Okay, alright.

39:32 I love you. I love you, too.