David Goldman Gabriner and Eileen Goldman

Recorded October 1, 2009 Archived October 1, 2009 01:19:01
0:00 / 0:00
Id: SFB000519


Eileen, 63, interviews her son David, 28, about his work as a firefighter, his relationship with his family, and his values.

Subject Log / Time Code

How D. became a firefighter.
Proud of relationship to city.
Fortunate enough to have amazing friends.
Lessons learned from brothers.
Parents’ relationship is a model for him.


  • David Goldman Gabriner
  • Eileen Goldman


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00:04 My name is Eileen Goldman. I am 63 years old today is October 1st 2009 where the Jewish Museum in San Francisco and I am David's mother.

00:18 And I Am David Antonio Goldman Greener 28 years old for another couple weeks. Today is the 1st of October. We are in the lovely San Francisco, and I'm here with my mother.

00:31 So David, first of all, I'm just so thrilled that you were willing to do this with me. I'm very excited. I love you so much and I was thinking about the fact that you're so complex and that you have so many varied interests your kind of mechanical and you love people and you're really creative. I'm wondering how did you end up with a career path that you chose in a paramedic. I work in Berkeley, California been doing it for 4 years this month. And how do I end up a firefighter? Well, most people will tell you that when the firefighters if they wanted to be firefighters their whole life and that is very much not my case. I started off thinking that I was going to be involved in teaching or some formal social work.

01:19 But as I have started off in school and you know started trying to figure out my career path, I realized it Academia wasn't for me and the things that I was studying sociology anthropology. They were going to require a lot more years of school. So I don't know a couple things happened. I got graduated from high school and I volunteered for a year and Boston out Roxbury and works with a bunch of children and was working at a community house working with Community organizations. And I felt like I was helping people it was totally formal. So I was there, you know in a uniform everyday is my first time ever being in uniform and I actually liked it enough to think about what I was wearing everyday.

02:02 So I'd say that combined with coming home and having to find a job in ending up in the hospital and realizing I like working around people touching people and having a positive impact on one individual at a time is like really feel good to me. So I was working at the hospital. I was making about $11 an hour and I found out that I could make a whole lot more if I worked in the emergency room, but I needed to get my EMT license. I went to school and it's cool. All anybody could talk about was firefighting and I started to think a little bit and I realized quickly the fire fighting had everything I've ever wanted teamwork. It worked in a community. So my lens was very local locally-focused and I felt like I could do good everyday thought I could be outside not at a desk. I feel like I could be helping people and it was challenging and it was something as honorable. It was one of the last jobs I can find where people actually still respected the person who did it.

02:57 So what I'm hearing you say is that it was important for you to have a job where there was help respect where you were helping people where you were part of a community and that you really value is very important to you to be of service. Where did you get those kind of values for what you want to do in your life huge impact in terms of the way I see.

03:22 Responsibility and self-worth and so, you know between the stories I think I had grown up and between what you guys are chosen for your professions and the stories, you know about our family it it it felt like something that it didn't really feel like a question. It was just it was an obvious was a given it was a given that you were being some kind of service so are their experiences since you've become a firefighter that confirm this is the right choice for you, especially that the more time I spend at work the less often it happens because I kind of get dull to it. But yeah, I'd say there's frequent occurrences of recognizing at this work is good. Look at me an example of something that happened in your work that made you just feel great about yourself.

04:16 I had one the other day and it wasn't it wasn't a particularly, you know critical call, but it was a call for a young lady would just moved to the Bay Area and

04:28 She said she passed out and I was called the to help figure out what's going on and give her the care that she needed and she was shaken up and she felt like she had nobody here to take care of her and we had about 15 minutes from the time. I got her into the back of an ambulance that I was working on that day to the hospital quick that figured out that she wasn't very sick. And so after getting her stabilized and getting her ready to go to the hospital, all we have is 15 minutes to talk and we we just talked we find out that we had quite a bit in common. We found out that.

05:03 It it it I think what to take away from it was that at the end of the trip. She she she grabbed my name and she said to me I just really want to thank you, you know, that was a scary part of my life and I feel like you did an amazing job of making me feel calm. Actually. I'd make a reminder another one. Something lately that's happened something. I'm really proud of his.

05:24 Less than a year ago. There was a five-year-old. I was hit by truck in Berkeley and I was on vacation when it happened. So it wasn't a call I responded to but I got back in a friend of mine who lives in in Berkeley where I work. I called me and it turned out that the kid have been hit was the son of his neighbor and he had a five-year-old daughter. They were friends the two kids and something about that struck me and part of the reason I wanted to get in the fire service was that I really wanted to feel like I had an impact in the community. What I'm realizing is that a lot of the work I do is very immediate. It's a cute and it doesn't have long-term effects is not a long-term relationship has developed as most of the people I work with but something about this really struck as an opportunity for me. And so with the help of without Duncan a friend of mine we met with the father and reached out to him and decided that for the first time in my career. We would send not in our products to the memorial for his son.

06:15 So we show up there's three of us an engine was engine to wish up to the UC campus were Frank the father lost. His five-year-old son was having a memorial and we sat in the back all of us were wearing are turnouts, which of the typical attire that people think of when they're going to think of a firefighter and Zachary who passed away was memorialized. It was about an hour of songs and clips and people telling stories and at the end of it. They were going to have a champagne toast. Well as firefighters it's time for us to go no alcohol. So we got ready to leave and everybody was surrounding Frank to give him the condolences Frank looks up from the circle of about 75 people that were all there to support him and sees us this engine company in the back and he split the crowd and he comes be lining right for my officer and in tears, I mean just destroyed and he grabs him and he hugs them and it's a heartfelt hug and says to him it makes me feel really good and it makes me feel

07:15 Okay to know that you were there when my son passed and I feel like a terrible situation as it was you really brought him a dignified death?

07:23 Through that experience not at that experience rock me. I mean it it rock me good and through that experience. I decided that I wanted to continue with it and so with Frank and with Duncan and with a couple of the members of the fire department, we've established an endowment. So I mean, these are the opportunities of the things that actually means something to me and I was taking the bit that the notion of a dignified death of the notion of bringing did it dignity or

07:47 Just a certain level of calm to a chaotic or destructive situation is really what I feel is valuable about my job, and it sounds like you want to go One Step Beyond the job that your job was to handle a situation when this young

08:04 And I'd bet that you took it one step further to create more community and to provide some dignity for the family to be a firefighter was always something that I'd envisioned. I mean I was that is the job.

08:19 So when you think about through your life when you think about what's made you proudest in your life. What do you think are some of the things that have made you proudest?

08:32 Proudest

08:34 Or happiest

08:36 I'll see I don't know that's a hard question.

08:42 I don't know. I'm proud of my relationship to the city. I'm proud of I'm proud of the knowledge that I that I found out about this city in the way that I interact with it and the community that I have here in the way that we all interact with the city. I'm proud of my work and my work makes me happy about that time.

09:11 Yeah, I'm happy. I'm happy around situations that feel real to me to ask you about which has to do with your relationship to the city because you have a love of the city and you really have dealt very deeply into the old aspects the real aspects of the city, you know, like the best place to get coffee in the you know, there's so many different aspects of the city. So I'm kind of interested in how that happened. What brought you this interest and how do you do this? I don't know where it came from. I think just growing up here and watching the city changes as definitely added to the the love affair that I have. I was considered San Francisco My First Love Before Your Mother

10:01 Is this the first woman I ever fell in love with and yeah, it's just it's not even a thought. It's just calling. I mean, it's it's something that I feel driven to do without without having any rationale for why do it but how do you find these things? Like let's talk about your Greenhouse project where that come from a project that I myself in a couple of kids I grew up with adoring and it's a it's a it's a city block. That's that's a piece of San Francisco History. It's in the southern part of town. It speaks two at a time in the twenties when tired in French families were gardening. Well, you know my crew we go out and explore and so Juan Carlos had found this property and he couldn't wait to share it. So we went and took a look at it and fell in love with it. He broke in half. Over the fence, you know found out real quickly from within that it was this I mean

11:01 It was a place to grow roses and they were wild roses that was growing in a 30 years after the top of the place is closed down and

11:10 It started off just kind of dreaming and then no 6 7 8 years later. We have a relationship to the place. We've taken it a step further and interviewed the family that owned it. We've family we found the family because we found a document on the property that had the the name of somebody been paying taxes and took it.

11:36 Took it a step further and started making phone calls and knocking on doors in the neighborhood. And one thing led to another we were eventually introduced to some folks that had actually work there that were affiliated with the family that owned it. He told us a lot about it. We're giving tours around the neighborhood, you know, introduced other families who used to own greenhouses told the history of their memory bringing them home to Gerald Baldi. I was kind of my Inlet to the neighborhood, but you just walked into his house. He never met you and he gave you all of these Family Photos door and I told him my story and I told him told him about my interests and he invited me in and we talked for 3-4 hours and he pulled out start playing out these books and photos from the 20s 30s 40s 50s, you know, and I he

12:27 He was just open. He loved that somebody had an interest in his history and we did and he let me go home with the book. I had the book from month and all the photos. So what do you have to do with this degree? Noah's project? Well, I mean that the dream is that will turn the greenhouses into a piece of property that I honor that at the neighborhood's history and at the same time really push forward, you know, Urban agriculture in San Francisco will be a place of learning for the neighborhood and it's interesting that the neighborhood that is still old school San Francisco. I mean, it's if it hasn't been turned out like most of the city has but it's compartmentalised and so each generation that's moved in as different. You know, you have old Italian and French you have black folks that I moved in you have a huge Asian population. Is there some Latinos Filipinos? I mean, there's all these different groups and they all stick to themselves and saw the real dream is that you create a space where people can get good food. That's not a supermarket near there good food and I

13:27 You know location Camino setting and actually start a conversation because one thing that all those folks have in common is that they were all used agriculture. They all all have historically taken from the earth in and tended to some to take the gardening in the food. So we want to start a dialogue out there and we want we want a tie in, you know, good food good food practice with good Community Practice in a way that is is new and and Progressive for the city. So what is good Community Practice engagement memory of coming back from sitting here where I've been engaging Roxbury, which was in my community. I mean it was while I work there, but it wasn't my community and I had this fantasy about this day. I wanted to create by 65 Fairmont and I wanted to go door-to-door in the three block radius and collect everybody's name information who lived in the house and I wanted to have a neighborhood party and it came from this day in Boston win.

14:24 No, it wasn't Boston news in Puerto Rico in Puerto Rico. As I was invited one day to this large Auditorium words school buses came in from every place within like a 30-minute Drive in the place was packed full of kids and all the kids were from different neighborhoods and they all got to know each other and Gage in the middle of the auditorium in different activities, and it was amazing. So I came back and I wanted to do the same thing when we get all the kids died in prison for me. I mean the most romantic idea is kids throwing up in a neighborhood for his home. So no matter where they go no matter where they come with no matter no matter where life leads them. They can always go back to their neighborhood and I can always get back to the people that have seen them since they were little and feel like they have a home. I mean it's gone now, it doesn't exist for the most part it we found a positive way. So I wanted to I wanted to get that the kids from our Hood together and never happened but I'm not stuck in Community Practice to me is people knowing each other looking out for each other. So is that part of what this greenhouse project would be as to create some kind of community there around

15:24 Border lights, but also the San Francisco Community. I'm engaged to San Francisco community in a food project and isn't that I know we talked some about in Berkeley setting up some kind of community for the kids in Berkeley some sports other ways for the kids in Berkeley who have nothing to do after school or is that a project you're still interested in thinking about kids and you know, your ideas of community and kids makes me think about your nephew. You have one nephew and I know you're a really important role model to him and I'm wondering in your mind control model. Do you want to be too tired? And then what are the what are the things you hope that you can share with him positive role model. I wanted to follow my lead. But I also feel like, you know as an uncle it's important for me to give him a space outside of his parents where you can really be himself and have an adult that looks out for him where you can have some of the other dialogue

16:25 I think I push boundaries of time and what is that mean you push pound? Do you know? I don't bite my tongue. I tell him what I'm feeling. I'll pushes his I'll ask him questions at that challenged him to to share what he's comfortable with and what I'm comfortable with and I want I want tyven to feel like he has a space where he can I explore, you know growing up and you can talk about the things that he Encounters in in, you know a place that's safe, but maybe is in his parents, I think, you know, you can't necessarily always feel comfortable talking about what you're going through with your folks. It's always good to have family that you can have those dialogues with did you have any family other than your parents inside your family that you thought you could have that kind of outside conversation with

17:16 Yeah, I think it was outside the family though. I mean, I think my friends growing up really became that for me. So that was actually one of my questions. I know that in your life friendship has been a really important since you were a little kids are always tense of friends around. Otherwise, you talk a little bit about the importance of friendship and your family and your life. I'm fortunate enough to have an amazing group of friends and they're all incredibly different and Incredibly Dynamic and they're all characters all characters. I'm so for me. I mean those those relationships have really provided that is my community. You know, it's Community for me isn't isn't Geographic as much as it is relationship-based.

18:04 So, can you think about a story something about a friendship that has been really important in your life that has really stuck with you that having the friend there at that moment.

18:15 Just made the difference.

18:17 Okay.

18:21 First best friend was probably Joaquin Macias or David Janik. They were both there. That's not true. It goes back further than that. My first best friends were Nate Wylie, and and and been Val Junior Waldorf. We did we did so much growing up together same with same with Nate Wiley. Waldorf those folks because he has like a cousin who you knew him from the date, you know him from the day he was born and he went through a really hard time, you know, there was a time when he was on the precipice and to think you played a role in bringing him back or what how do you feel like your friendship was, you know didn't have any role in that period of him going from almost gone off the edge 2 really coming back.

19:22 So, okay. So what about it? I was thinking and also in terms of the role of family for you.

19:29 And I know family is a really important thing in your life. So when you think about friends or family

19:39 What are the thoughts that come up for you that are most important?

19:44 Okay.

19:47 I have one more thought I was thinking that you have a very strong community of friends and you're very close to your family. And then you have two brothers who are like both they're your friends and that your family and I watch those relationships with a lot of all so, you know, you're living with one of your brothers now, I'm very close to the other and I think there must be some challenges to that and some kind of wondering I'm really curious actually about the challenges of living with a brother who is also a close friend and yet you're the older brothers are referred to as lito and I think he's known throughout. My community is Leto high is my younger brother. He's 24 and he has been around me his whole life. I mean, I think he did almost all of his growing up seeing me, you know, he was he was fairly antisocial in in in high school. And so, you know, most of his first came around me and my

20:47 Group of friends. So I don't know News 13 14 years old. We would scoop him up and he'd come do the things that we would do to come to parties with us. He drinks first. Beer with us smoke supposed to First joint with us. I think he probably does fresh breast with us. I mean, he was he was thrown he was thrown right in the mix at a young age. And so he's very much been there and I feel like I've been you know at the at the beginning experiences of a lot of things for him. And so I think one of the most interesting parts of Mind Danny's relationship was the change from you know, the guardian big brother to actually having a friendship. When do you think that happened? I would say our trip to Argentina that that happened, you know, I think Danny Ed Danny play poker The Rock College didn't go to school. We played poker and you made a shitload of money and

21:36 He took all his money to travel all by himself and every time you come back if you keep come back more. He's more of a of a complete person. And so, you know with with that confidence and with that development into his own person. There was a force change in our relationship cuz it wasn't like I could just slap him upside the back of the head and tell him what he needed to do anymore. You had a mind of his own and so yeah, I I I started to recognize that and me and decided to plan a trip together and I really wasn't tripura first. It was the first time we shared you know responsibility was the first time we shared decisions. It was the first couple times and he stood up to me in the way that he that he did and I think a real friendship was born from their do you think you've learned anything from Danny? Yeah. I mean Danny is incredibly driven and incredibly smart and Incredibly patient and surprisingly.

22:36 He doesn't get fired up. So me and him made him balance each other out pretty good. I'm rage and you calm and I think we both take a little bit of that for me. I think he takes his cues on when it's time to get when it's time to get you know, fired up and I think I take my cues from him when it's time to calm down so Toby so I can you think about the time when that changed from being the younger brother to the development of the friendship. And so I'm one of my most Vivid childhood memories was

23:19 Crying, I am thinking about outset. I was that and jealous. I was a relationship at the end of been. I've been my cousin two years older than I am and Toby And then it had a wonderful relationship as long as I can remember and I was always hard for it was a hard pill for me to swallow the two of them had this relationship and I was envious of it of late though. I mean Toby my relationship is really blossomed and I think we've learned how to be vulnerable to each other how to talk about things in a in a sincere and real way and so that relationship growing. I feel like I can get him and conversations that are fruitful now, you know, and I think you probably feel the same thing about me, but I know when you talked about your relationship with Danny you talked about certain lessons that you think you are able to give Danny and then also certain lessons that you learned from Danny. Can you say the same thing between you and Toby?

24:08 Toby I I feel and I'm in a lot of ways is just he follows he follows what he feels and it made him a very different that way. I thought I am very emotional but I think a lot I think too damn much and Toby follows what it whatever it is that he's feeling and so I watched that and sometimes you know, I take from that that that there's there's experience to be had from following your emotion.

24:39 Well, it's interesting because one of the things you said before we were here is that you really thinking it's a time in your life when you want to figure out how to have more fun. So what does that mean? He's allowing myself to act before I think sometimes cuz you're talking a lot now about thinking and so are you saying you think you overthink things or that the notion of having this life and and and coming up on her birthday and thinking about how quickly time starts to move the older you get if you look at your life like a big piece of pie when you're little and you're one that's the pie and then you get to before and you got four slices. Well as you reach 29, you know, the slices get pretty small and I really think that's the impression that you have time and I was moving so with the notion of time is going faster in the slices are getting smaller, you know.

25:36 It's about it's about enjoying the ride. So what would that mean to have more enjoyment in your life? I think he's allowing yourself to experience things without knowing where they're going through yourself in situations that you can't help you learn from a little bit control to

25:54 Yeah, I guess letting go of certain control over things.

26:00 So

26:02 I was kind of thinking you know, you said you're getting to be 29 years old in that feels to you like it's

26:10 Quite a bit of Life you've now lived when you think about that. What do you think of the lessons the most important lessons that you have learned so far?

26:19 You know, I think I think one of the lessons that I felt very attached to when I was younger, but I'm having a little bit of a Renaissance with his the notion of principle. I'm I really feel like principal is a lost art and I feel like at least in the community that I Live Now, can we just stop for a minute? Cuz I really want to understand what you mean by principal and principle of the last time I feel like once upon a time I was growing up and what I what I was, you know.

26:52 I feel like what I saw growing up early. So I interpreted it as was that you are needed to be a line that you draw in the sand and it could be a crazy one or I can be a very dark, you know the gadget one but there needs to be a line and a point at which you decided. Something wasn't right for you or something wasn't right for your community or the World At Large and everything I've ever I've ever been taught is that

27:20 When that line gets crossed you deal with it. You don't just let it happen so that can mean any number of things. But what I've noticed is there's been a the line is gone and I find that as I interact in the world.

27:37 There's less principal at least at least among the the folks that I've grown up with early. So among the community San Francisco as a whole. I find the conversations about principal to be less and I find that people are willing to tolerate more.

27:51 So like what kinds of things?

27:55 I mean, I don't know. I think you could go off on it on any number of specifics but but what's its heading you what is the things that have set you? I don't know. I mean specific examples of be like service in a restaurant like to give a very to give a very basic one, you know the idea of a tip and where it where that's gone. You know, I think I feel like once upon a time that it was something that was given because you appreciated what you got and there's not with fear that if you don't tip someone being out 20% or 18% that you're a bad person, even if they've given you awful service. So what I'm hearing you say here is that you if you want you would like to give someone their Due based on that they do what they're supposed to do. They treat you correctly more people's actions determine to buy a set of code instead of principle around what's appropriate and what's not and I feel like

28:54 Yeah, well, it's a good time to get back to your original question. I feel like one when I was born and as I was raised as a young man, I was taught that there was there was principles I needed to have an idea of what I thought was right when I was but I thought was wrong I need to fight for what I thought was right and I feel like as I get older that makes more sense to me and that that defines for me much much more of who I want to be now have caught myself and in the past often allowing myself to move away from it out of the sake of ease out of the sake of keeping my community happy with me and I feel like you know, one of the one of the things that I want to be on that one of the things that I want to be surrounded by his people who even when it's not necessarily easy or even if it has some pretty severe

29:40 Reactions are willing to stand up for what they think is right in terms of principal. So that's what you're saying is that you think you really as you're getting older you're realizing that was important to stand up for your principles and not be intimidated by people who may have different principles.

29:58 Yeah, so I imagine sometimes at the firehouse those kinds of issues might come up with, you know, people come from a very different culture and background than you do. And so how does that fit into what you just said?

30:15 I don't like Star Wars, okay.

30:26 It's a really wonderful feeling to see them being friends. I think sometimes I project wondering what's really going on and trying not to with David and any living together really wanting to know what's going on with you too. And are you really being honest with each other? And will there be things that happen in this relationship that could figure the the relationship and I feel very proud when I we've had discussions when you felt you needed to talk with Danny about something that you felt wasn't working right in the householder the very proud of your skills in figuring out what you think about something it's kind of what you were talking about speaking up, you know the saying well, I don't want to live for instance in a bakery. So this is the way it needs to be and really thinking about how you want to say that in a way that won't

31:18 Will make him feel bad. And so it's been really it's very it's wonderful feeling to be a parent and watch your children be close to each other kind of makes me feel proud. Like maybe we did something right in terms of fostering those relationships. Although I know it isn't about us. It's about all of you The Last of a Dying Breed and you guys exemplify good relationships. So I wouldn't I wouldn't take that away from from you know, your role in terms of the relationships that I have in my brothers and my friends are my you know family. Yeah. I mean, that's that's you guys.

32:07 Well, they so I think that I think that sincerity is a huge part of a good relationship and I think it's it's very palpable is tangible how sincere your guy's affection for each other is

32:26 And for you, I hope also but I mean the two of you in particular you can really get a sense that you guys like each other. You know, I think it's amazing that you know, 30 plus years into a relationship there still flirtation and attraction.

32:42 Yeah. Something that is currently on display but it's cool to be able to sneak over and catch a glimpse sometimes of you guys having a flirtatious moment that you don't think you're being watched. You know, it's really interesting to watch you guys work through conflict considering you guys have completely different ways of approaching conflict and how you do that respectfully towards each other.

33:06 Yeah, I mean you guys you guys have a you guys enjoy each other. I don't see that a lot. That's a that's a rarity. So what do you want for yourself? When you think about the future family? You know, what do you think about the family that you will develop someday? I would like to find a space that is full of full of respect. I mean, I think a lot of the way that I envision myself in my in my life is modeled, you know after you and EM pop that makes a challenging that's a real hard. That's a tough act to follow. You know, it's like it's like everywhere you look there's people falling in and out of love and there's divorce and it's it's a tough act to follow in the people that you have. His role models are together after thirty-plus years. You're careful about what you know what you think you have.

33:58 I have one more question. I wanted to ask you what you're off this subject. But remember when we went to Maurice's Memorial and there were six hundred people there. And you said to me you were in high school, right? And you said to me it really made you think about how you everybody spoke about him and what a wonderful man he was and it's you said to me I it made me really think about the way I want to live my life and what people will think and say about me what do you think about how you'd like to be remembered and what you how you living your life and what you'd like people to think about it. You know what you're hoping that people see in you interesting at your house. I had a package. Did you fill out when you become a firefighter line-of-duty death packet and it allows you the opportunity to outline how you'd like to have your funeral services I go down in the event that you passed and it was a really interesting exercise and it doesn't allow you to tell talk about what you want people to say about you, but it allows you a little bit of guidance in terms of how that ceremony is going to have.

34:58 And you know, I'm The Eccentric or one of many eccentric eccentric in the fire department. I'm from the from the city, you know, and I'm working with people that for the most part iron.

35:12 I got a city Swagger, you know, and I have I have a very eccentric style that I bring to it. So I think my line of duty death packet probably filled out pretty differently than most but some of this some of the notable parts of it that's a really interesting is going to ask you about your tire and most people probably want to be buried and very formal attire. Well, you want to see an uncomfortable person you check me out in a suit, you know, so my tires is outlined by my friends. I got my money on my friend James Walton in Philadelphia was impeccable taste in shoes. You could be picking up my shoes. I got Jordan who made him of developed a real affinity for hats. He's going to be picking out the cap on wearing in that casket, you know, and so on and so forth musically, you know, I want people around me that understand my musical tastes to be picking from taking my music but I think about what I would like to be remembered for I want to be remembered as somebody that

36:11 I want to remember to somebody who's passionate important self into those passions somebody who was stand up and at least attempt to do the right thing funny cuz most of the time when Papa's feeling nostalgic in a given night his his goodbye is always do the right thing. I mean that's like his patented go to thing and that Rings true for me a lot and it and it it's something that I aspire to is at the very minimum want to feel like I'm trying to do right by what my vision of my place in this world is and I want that to be remembered for

36:53 Yeah, I mean I have no doubt that people remember me for loving San Francisco and for letting my friends for having more projects than any, you know human being as possible of adding and driving weird-ass projects, you know, who who built bicycles decides that they wanted to try to open a greenhouse acts as a firefighter travels, you know goes and gets to trash bags full of alpaca and tries to make himself his own stuff. I mean who the fuck does that and I feel like I do and so

37:23 Yeah, I mean it makes me think just an enclosing cuz I know that the time is almost out that a big struggle for me and my life is always wanting to be like somebody else trying to be like my sister are trying to be like a friend and I heard an expression not too long ago couple years ago. I'd rather be the best maid than a not-so-good someone else and I think that's what I'm really struggling with David is that you really have you really are someone who's trying to be the best you and you're not you're not swayed by all the things that people might expect of you or you really are a person who's being the best you and what more wonderful thing. Could anyone be in life than that and like there's two people that I don't want to be affiliated with my remembrance and those are folks that don't have a clue about me. You know what I mean?

38:20 I don't know. I feel like

38:23 Yeah, and I feel like I want to be my own person. I feel like I want to find my own way. And I feel like I'm always eager to take from all the experiences that I find to be interesting. But I want them to be my own. I mean sincerity being genuine is is the tops for me. Do you know why this tears in your eyes right now?

38:42 No, I mean actually a friend of mine once said that I he teared up every time he felt like he could touch something sincere and yeah, I feel like I do the same we had a really good conversation between us and I know that sometimes we feel like we don't we don't listen that well, so I think it's been great to spend this time listening to you and I think a lot too.

39:08 Is there any question you want to ask me that you've never asked me that you like to know the answer to?

39:17 I mean, there's plenty of questions.