Sean Singh and Elizabeth Singh

00:04 Hi, my name is Liz saying I'm 39 years old. Today is September 8th, 2011. We're at the Contemporary Jewish Museum in San Francisco, California. Where were visiting from St. Petersburg, Florida, and I'm here with my husband.

00:18 Hi, my name is Sean Singh. I am 43 years old today is September 8th. I had a contemporary Jewish Museum in San Francisco. This is my second visit are so I'm quite excited that we going to do this and I am with Liz my wife who I owe an apology to. Thank you.

00:38 I'm waiting for the apology. So I thought that I would ask you to tell me about your father since I never met him since he passed away when you were younger. Can you tell me about some early memories of you and your father in Guyana?

00:57 I don't remember much. Actually, I don't don't remember much about anything related to my father from Guyana.

01:10 I guess my most vivid memory.

01:13 As a child was being punished and I don't remember what we have done but my brothers and I must have done something wrong on my father came home and we were punished in our punishment back. Then was literally being caned with a piece of bamboo. Call it a while Kane and I remember but if we did we all get punished in my father would have asked us to put her hands out and and then he would pay her hands with this piece of bamboo was about 3 ft long half inch thick and was pretty solid dry bamboo.

02:00 I don't remember much. I just remember that I got in the cut on my wrist from that that particular beating.

02:09 But we all did all of my siblings did it but that's about as much as I remember my father Guyana. I remember him more and Barbados and Antigua the point surprise news on a 2-year difference. How old are you?

02:28 Barbados was 1976 that I was nine.

02:35 Daughters 9, but I remember I guess part of it was just my father wasn't working in Barbados now, that was my mother but

02:47 And I when we went to school, he was there in the morning when I came back in the afternoon he was there so I actually just saw him more. I don't member spending more time with emerging more things with him in Antigua.

03:01 Remember

03:03 Doing more things with him. And this was just a year later. He was a teacher. He was the Headmaster school as ADD, so

03:11 What school with him and came home with him?

03:17 And I guess I was older so I had more more things to remember. But yeah, it was just time to spend together as a family. I I don't remember much if any one and one time being the youngest I know my other brothers and my sister had a lot more of his attention and it's time I spent more time with my mother.

03:40 So

03:42 That that was just the way it worked out at the end of the day. We'll have a meal together. But yeah, I don't remember spending one-on-one time with him. We have of your mother from growing up.

03:57 Culottes

04:02 The first one I can remember extremely Vivid lady is I broken my wrist. I was playing in the neighbor's yard and jumped over the fence where it wasn't supposed to be.

04:14 And jumped over the fence and fell and landed on my left wrist and broke it.

04:22 The whole process of getting my hand casted took as far as I can remember probably the whole day.

04:30 But I'm sure it was a lot less. She took me to the hospital the x-rated the hospital was an indoor outdoor house, but I don't remember why or how I remember the details, but I remember getting the X-ray then we went outside and we have to do some things. I guess more paperwork and came back inside.

04:52 Siri found that the hand was broke. The arm is broken on my wrist is broken and then we went back outside and they cast it by hand with plaster and this is all done outside in a bucket.

05:07 And

05:09 I guess my hand was a little swollen. I don't know much about that. But I all I was told us he couldn't get it wet, but I remember just about every part of that.

05:21 Very vividly with my mother and she driving me back home and the funniest part was

05:28 I don't remember what I told her or what my brothers and I told her I did to break my wrist.

05:35 But it was not the truth and we've gotten back home and I'm walking into the house and the neighbors kids that we were playing with.

05:44 Came up, and they yelled that'll teach you for jumping over fence and thing in the yard. You weren't supposed to play and then my mother found out that I was not doing. What was correct.

05:58 Barbados again, it was a lot of time with my mother we going to beach. I guess. I remember my father. My mother always take care of me and her sister lived in Barbados. So any time we went somewhere was mostly eat with my mother.

06:22 Barbados I was I was nine it was big yet small the walk the school seemed like it was in on our but it was really probably a half a mile maybe a mile at most it was warm. It was easy with safe. We could go anywhere anytime we don't have to worry about.

06:51 Crime if anything we were the ones committing Crimes by stealing fruit and claiming to be back people's backyard, but there was no concern about us getting lost or abducted her or abused or run over by a car. It was so we can go anywhere and do anything we want. I think the biggest concern was just if we got hurt playing somewhere.

07:18 Everybody was extremely friendly. It was easy to get around.

07:25 The school I remember school being wait. We had our uniforms we had.

07:33 Structured classrooms instructed play time and a play time we all the entire school had lunch at the same time. So everybody was out in a play feed at the same time and

07:45 I was just I was pretty.

07:48 Hey, I just remember a lot of trees and it was easy to walk around. So everything is a child everything was new and it was first time where they could have explored cuz the price moving to Barbados I couldn't go far from home, especially being the youngest so

08:09 Bedtime

08:13 Tell me about how it felt when you first moved to the internet to the United States. What a change that must have been for you.

08:25 Buzz

08:27 Does exciting

08:33 I don't know how and I really think it was National Geographic but I am somewhere in the back of my mind. I think that's the wrong magazine.

08:43 But I remember.

08:47 Singh images are having images in my head about what

08:51 A major city would be like or what New York would be like

08:55 And

08:58 I have when we came off the plane. We went to Brooklyn.

09:03 We stayed with a friend of a friend and so it didn't look anything. Like I imagined it would be the one of these big tall buildings was just short Brownstones in the streets were crowded in parking was difficult, but they weren't these amazing things and cute elevators and things along those lines. So the first couple Days Inn Brooklyn were pretty quiet and then we made it into Manhattan.

09:33 And that was that was pretty amazing. The buildings were huge and really high up into the sky and you felt as though you can touch the stars from going on top of them. I remember the first time I saw the Empire State Building, I knew it was a different building just because we're so tall and everything around it with the noise. They the car is a damn business is a fire trucks that people it was crowded never seen so many people at one time getting in a Subway. I've never done any of that before so going underground in particular to going down into the subway getting on I-10 the noise the lights.

10:23 Back then to Subway had incandescent bulbs not for us and Bulbs. So it had to see yellow glow tonight. It's it's there's no bright white glove white light that has now so it's kind of dark and dim and a little bit scary.

10:41 I knew the track was dangerous because everybody told you stay away from the edge didn't know what to expect when the train came around Breeze when the train was coming. You felt a breeze pushing against you really don't know what it was and to see the two lights come out of the tunnel was it was neat and scary all at the same time, but Manhattan was

11:04 But something I really enjoyed and I knew it was going to like it before I even got there. I just thought it was going to be a great place.

11:14 I liked it. I really liked it. I like Manhattan. I like the buildings. I like the people. I just thought it was all a lot of stuff for people to build and I kept imagining what it was like for people to construct a building like that didn't know anything but engineering or or construction and but I imagine that to build construct a building up that size that you needed massive equipment and people are climbing up in each other in the ladders were really long and

11:47 It was just something that was.

11:51 I had no concept of half the stuff is Belton and a materials needed, you know, all those glasses for the buildings and concrete in the study of how did it get the steel that far up into the sky and especially if there was another building next to it. How did it get out there? Did it put in the other building all these questions that I had and I had no answers for but I just thought it was an amazing place.

12:21 We were in essence running.

12:24 We had left Guyana because the political system had gotten bad. We didn't really sneak out in the middle of the night. But we we sneaked out half my family left for a few days of vacation. That's what we said. It was and then the other half came along a couple of my cat so fat a week or two later and we just went to Barbados everything behind our house. Of clothing some furniture came, but not much cars didn't come it. It was just

13:04 Know what we were told we're going on vacation.

13:08 But we were moving permanently and not going back.

13:13 It was extremely difficult to my parents was difficult for my father and my mother adapted it easier much easier from my perspective. But again, I didn't spend much time with my father.

13:27 My mother didn't seem too worried about it as much my father did I know he was always concerned and I would hear some conversations and remember, you know, it's a child when

13:39 When your parents are nervous or upset or worried you can tell and I could tell that my father was worried and

13:49 Yeah, we would move from what I would consider pretty at the time a pretty lavish lifestyle. I would say we were in the upper middle class and get a nice nap. Maybe upper lower upper class. I am not sure but we we had a maid we had we had cars we had we had everything we needed and more.

14:21 We went to schools. We were all dressed. We were taken care of.

14:29 And wait, we hadn't definitely had more than most but when we arrived in Barbados

14:35 We were

14:38 My guest a certain great less than the average person that we didn't have much we

14:46 We all squeezed into one car my parents weren't working.

14:56 A week we shared a lot of bedroom space my sister had a bedroom, but we were sharing a lot of confined space or our house in Barbados. We rented a small so my parents didn't get a job in Barbados. That's what it really came down to probably because

15:14 The political system in Barbados have changed and the government to change while we were there and my father and you to previous prime minister and he was associated with a previous prime minister. So it was a good situation for us to be there.

15:30 So we moved on to Antigua.

15:33 And that's where my parents both had jobs with both teaching.

15:41 But the climate there was also changing and my parents knew that they had to find something more stable for us. So

15:51 That's when we started looking or I guess my parents decided that it was time to try to look at the US and see if we can go over there.

15:58 So my mother brought us up to the US on August 4th 1978. I arrived.

16:05 And

16:10 We are at my job and my mother and my brother and my sister was to find a place for us to live and eventually my father and my two other brothers would join us.

16:22 And

16:25 We travel cross-country from New York to Portland, Oregon.

16:31 Buy Amtrak and

16:36 It was the first time I heard I've been on a train like that and then we got stuck in Chicago overnight because we missed our connection and they put us up at I think was a Hilton. I'm pretty sure it was a Hilton. So the next morning we're having breakfast and they're giving us coupons for breakfast.

16:58 And my brother and I both are ordered cereal and they brought of cereal out with cold milk or we never had cereal cold knock we ask for warm milk for their cereal. I remember the guys thought it was so weird that we wanted warm milk.

17:15 But

17:17 Yeah, we went cross-country to Portland Oregon spent a few weeks.

17:21 Came back and

17:28 My mother left us and Silver Springs Maryland with some relatives while she went to New York to find a job and a place to live.

17:41 So we were there I guess was the last week of August.

17:45 And we're about to start school. I guess the Monday to Tuesday after Labor Day. This was 1978 and she came back down and she said she's found a place for us to live and she found a job right away.

17:59 And we're going to go back to New York with her. So my brother and I went back to New York on on the Trailways bus.

18:08 My sister stayed in Oregon with my mother's sister and her family.

18:16 And we got to New York to studio apartment.

18:21 That was

18:23 I don't know.

18:25 It was just one room a small kitchenette in a bathroom.

18:31 And in all the places we've lived and all the things that we've done with never been in any place down small before and all three of us were sleeping in the same bed.

18:43 And the windows

18:47 The windows faced another building. It was a third floor apartment 3B.

18:54 The windows faced

18:57 The balls on the back of another building and there was no there were no trees was right at the light coming in from the windows. There was very little light. And back there and it was just really unusual that we didn't have a yard. We didn't have trees we can go outside by ourselves.

19:21 We we were basically had to do everything inside.

19:25 And we had no furniture or just a bad at the time and I think of you eventually gotten a chair.

19:33 Cooking utensils were I don't even know where my mother got some cooking utensils we had.

19:42 But yeah, that's that's where we started out.

19:45 But

19:48 6 weeks into

19:51 New home in America my my mother got a call that my father.

20:00 I got mail.

20:02 And

20:04 She had to go to Antigua right away.

20:07 Sochi

20:10 She got an explained.

20:12 Literally as far as I can remember.

20:17 I was 10 my my brother. Gary had just turned 12 and she left us.

20:27 Now we went really left alone. There was a woman that lives in the building on the first floor and she had a son who is similar to ra so she was asked to take care of us and the people that my mother were was working for at a time.

20:48 We're extremely generous.

20:52 She has been working for them for six weeks as as there.

20:57 Babysitter as the governor's I think is the word that use and

21:04 They continue to pay my mother while she was gone. They

21:11 They provided groceries for us for my brother myself. They would check in us in a regular basis.

21:21 And then it was about a week less than a week. Later.

21:27 They call us my brother and I are well actually came and got us and take us back to their place, which is about four blocks away and sat us down and said they had some bad news.

21:41 I thought it was funny that that they were the ones that we're having this conversation with us because the person the woman that was taken care of us.

21:51 Who was looking after us didn't have this conversation with us, but it did Doug and Judy brush.

22:02 The saddest tone is said that her father had died and they were very upset.

22:10 I didn't I didn't know really knew what it meant.

22:18 It didn't make any sense to me.

22:24 Now you're 10 years old.

22:28 And

22:36 Just to make any sense.

22:40 So what do you do next? Where do we come my question? I remember we called brushes and tooting Uncle Doug.

22:53 And my question was if I can still get gloves because it was getting cold and I've never had drugs before.

23:02 Halloween was a couple days away and should I change the subject there were very upset. They

23:13 They were

23:17 The website I never spoke to my brother Gary about it having to wait on you how he felt about it.

23:25 Bedtime

23:28 Dammit, just

23:31 We're told that and then we went back to her apartment.

23:34 That was kind of it really gone for a month. She came back Thanksgiving weekend 1978.

23:47 So yeah, she was gone for a month.

23:51 So Gary and myself or school we gotten into you.

23:56 Immaculate Conception in

24:00 Which is a block away exactly block away from where we lived and so we would go to school in the morning by ourselves and come home in the afternoon by ourselves. And yeah, we we can do anything else we stayed inside and I was not a so we could have gone and played Outback or gone to the park or anything like that. But yes, she was gone until that weekend and she came back with my two brothers.

24:27 And some of her furniture

24:29 Which was a large stereo system.

24:35 Back, then it was a Grundig radiogram. That's what I was called and it had a record player. I was supposed to and I honestly don't know how she she got it into America.

24:56 But yeah, that's so the five of us lived in apartment 3B.

25:02 For quite some time. I don't remember how long and then apartment 2A came available.

25:12 2A was a one-bedroom apartment.

25:16 So we actually had a

25:20 We had a bedroom separate room from everybody being in one room.

25:25 So we had a queen size bed in there where my mother myself and my sister would sleep.

25:33 And outside we had a couch in the living dining room area.

25:41 We had a couch. That was a pull-out sofa couch. We had to think of call trundle beds daybeds and iPads. I don't know but it's a bad where it's like a piece of furniture, but then you can bowl a roll out single mattress out from underneath it and we all slept in in the living room. We did our homework to everything was done all in the same room the whole apartment.

26:15 What was smaller than our post Malone? Yeah, I hate that have to be smaller than our apartment that we had on 4th Street and that apartment on for she was 660 square feet. So

26:29 This apartment have been about it. I'm going to say 500 square feet, maybe a little less and while we were all there.

26:39 My cousin Henry came to live with us.

26:42 He had a friend named Charlie who look for a short time. And yeah, so it was the smell my sister to come back from Oregon. That's so is a six of us Charlie and Henry. It was eight of us living in that apartment.

27:07 There were days that we would get lunch treat me well enough to live on for a long time and during the summer will get hot when we get cranky and we get fights. My sister would never get into a fight but me and my brothers will get in a fight soon. It won't last long, but then you know, it's a small space for everybody to be in looking back at it. It was the more I think about it is just

27:33 It was amazing that they can put that many bodies in a place. We had a small TV and eventually graduated from 19 inch TV has a big deal and 19 in Panasonic color TV our first color tv

27:48 About time. My mother worked two jobs.

27:56 And

27:59 She would leave early in the morning. I have usually around 5:30 or so 6 the latest and she would go downtown and she would help out with.

28:14 Patients that had cerebral palsy I should work with them. And then in the afternoon when that shift was over she would go to the hospital is across the street New York Eye and Ear infirmary and she was a nurse's aide and she taken some course of something to become a nurse's aid certified nurse's aide or whatever and she would do the 3:30 to 11:30 shift there.

28:41 And she can see from the hospital windows from from your rooms directly into our apartment and vice versa.

28:52 So that that's her way of your check on us and she would know the time. She would finish work at 11:30 at night.

29:02 Should be back should be home by 11:35 freedom for the address to Liberty Crossing straight to get a few hours of sleep.

29:13 Girl by the time she gets home. We are all still awake.

29:16 So, you know how I guess I was 12 13 now somewhere around there.

29:25 And we're going to bed at midnight.

29:28 Cuz when my mother came home

29:30 And we were all awake at time should bring food for us.

29:36 We had all these Hospital plates for Jello have come over and sometimes I scream sometimes milk.

29:45 Sometimes food is literally a whole plate of food. I remember when we were

29:53 At some point we're packing and we came across a stack of of dessert saucers.

30:02 With the hospital

30:04 Logan at the hospital look up at the pattern the hospital used but my mother was really good about taking back day the dishes.

30:14 But yeah, I was wanted to attend up where we am. I wanted to end up but damn.

30:25 Okay, and then what prompted the move to Queens to the bigger house? Would move to New Jersey first, my mother found a house in New Jersey in Jersey City and she made an offer she bought it so we moved in uterus and butt.

30:45 Because we were in school. She wanted to make sure that we kept going to school in New York. So

30:53 Will use a New York address of a relative a real friend and that's how we have to continue to go to high school at all of us that we're going to a very schools.

31:05 So she wants to buy a house. She she wanted to get back to a place where we can get some space and more than 550 500 square-foot apartment. We were in the house for very short time when my brother Gary and I got beaten up by a group of of kids in the neighborhood and it was racially motivated alliteration with some days my mother put the house on the market. She was because she was still working two jobs. She was gone. Now she was gone a long time. Now, she was teaching associate leave home at 6 in the morning travel to

31:44 The PATH train station Journal Square in Jersey City. So we take the bus to the Train the train to the World Trade Center and then she would walk 10 or 15 minutes from the World Trade Center to a school where she taught she would then.

32:02 Take the bus up 1st Avenue to the hospital work there from 3:30 to 11:30.

32:08 And most nights she would walk from the hospital on 1st Avenue between 1st and 2nd Avenues over to 6th Avenue the cash to PATH train back to Jersey City to Journal Square it and catch the bus get home. Usually it's around 1 and turn right around again next month to go back out.

32:30 But anyway after

32:32 She sold the house we lived in an apartment in Grove Street was a basement apartment that would literally flood with a foot of water every time it rained and we would we had our bed stack all the way in the back at this apartment was had no windows. It was dark is dark. Dark dark. I don't remember much about it other than we all slept there when it rained. We would bail water to Skippers things dry literal AME. We get Buckets my bad at all today at apartment and that happened often.

33:08 So while we were in New Jersey Shore still looking for another place to live in us or she found a house in Queens and one reason she bought the house in Queens was it was a multi-family house?

33:22 And it was expensive over it going to forward it.

33:30 If I remember correctly somewhere not $95,000 and that was

33:36 In 1983

33:39 But it had tenants on the first floor on the third floor and we were going to move into the second floor. So she knew she can afford to pay the rent David mortgage. I remember the interest rate being 14%

33:53 And you know just doing Simple Math remember back and I was running percentages of whatever it was and I just thought wow, that's pretty amazing. And you know it we can afford a house that big and I had a yard. So that's how we moved to the queens and she stole from Queens. We all did the same thing we continue to go to high school at Seward Park High School Gary myself, and my mother continued work in the same Catholic School st. Joseph. So we will all leave in the morning take the subway.

34:26 To walk again and then repeat at night. She'll leave work at 11:30 take the subway back home. We it was a to pherazone back then to furazone meaning that you had to pay bus fare and train for subway fare to get to Manhattan or do I get wherever you wanted to go to but the saved at second fear, we always walk and was a mile and regardless of the weather and my mother would walk at just to save that extra dollar or whatever. It was bedtime. And that's how we ended up in Queens and ironically was around Thanksgiving of 83.

35:00 And I thought it was five years later after she'd come back to America.

35:09 I do.

35:13 I guess.

35:15 I don't know that much about your family other than what your father has told me and I don't know anything about your mother's side of the family at all.

35:24 And

35:28 What your thoughts are in your family? I don't I don't really know that my teeth. Are you probably know more than I do.

35:38 It sounds from what I understand my mother's.

35:43 Side of the family there's a lot of Secrets and not a lot of

35:49 Open communication. So basically

35:54 All that I know is that my

35:56 Grandmother's mother

36:01 It was it was put in a state institution back then for dementia, but back then he knows of the homes.

36:11 For those people who aren't like they are now and it was basically like a loony bin and then my my grandmother has always said that her sisters.

36:21 Didn't go visit her. So if it was my grandmother who every Sunday would go to visit her.

36:28 And that I know played a profound effect on her life and then my mother's father died when she was young maybe maybe when she was six or seven. I'm not quite sure but I know that she's told me that her mother my grandmother didn't tell her about it for several days or weeks. I'm not I really don't know why and in fact, I'm not quite sure if my mom's clear on the whole story about how he died. I believe he was a cab driver and the only thing that I know about him is that my grandmother always says it he look like a Chinaman and he was short

37:12 I remember my grandmother second husband. I considered my grandfather pretty well.

37:20 But I really

37:23 Other than that don't know much about my mother side and you know, my father's side is really small to and

37:30 Have fun memories of my grandparents on my father's side, but I really don't know that much about that side of the family either to tell you the truth.

37:42 Well, I remember when I was younger my grandpa both sets of grandparents lived in New York City. We lived about an hour north of the city and I remember them coming up to visit. I remember a lot of times they would come together which didn't always work out. So well, it was everything was a big competition between the two sets of grandparents and then they both both sets of grandparents moved to Florida to West Palm Beach.

38:11 I'm not sure how old I was when that happened and they moved about 5 minutes apart from each other. So again, that was difficult because whenever we went to visit they you know, they eat sort of kept track of how long we are with the other one and made sure that we spent the same. If not, it's not more time with them.

38:34 I just have one brother younger, brother.

38:38 I know if you were going to tell Amy and Aaron something that you want them to remember whether it's about you or advice or something that they should remember. What would you tell him?

38:57 I answered a question. I think I would.

39:04 I would just tell them to be kind.

39:08 Don't know why I cry just to be kind and that I think that you and I have

39:16 Made every decision

39:19 To the best of our ability to ensure that they've had a really happy life and a happy upbringing.

39:27 10 + 7

39:34 I don't know why I'm crying.

39:38 You guys are the last Wednesday so we can keep going.

39:49 Well, I think when the thing the stats.

39:54 But we spoil them a lot.

39:57 We spoil them lot because we like to travel and I think both listen I

40:06 Like to give him as many experiences as possible. So something we were always very proud of him. We say it is that both Irma traveled to 6 continents by 8 6

40:16 And I think more than just a statistic.

40:21 I see lots of good things that I've learned or talk about experiencing and I'd like to I like to go and see new and exciting things or just new things.

40:34 And I think we both just really want to give them wet more than what we had growing up. We wanted I think you always want to do better. Each generation wants to do better. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I agree and in a x i i i said something one of the reasons why I'm

40:55 Anxious to let them traveling to take him it is

40:59 I feel I felt as though even though mine was not vacation of us necessity. I guess this week and gray the different places we travel to and what my experiences were growing up help me to look at things a little differently in and look at things from a different perspective and that's always helpful and I wanted them to get that experience I've learned

41:25 That's both of them look at the world and very unique ways. And I guess I'm going to ask you another question.

41:33 What would you say you've learned from Amy and Aaron and and separately what have they taught you as a parent. I also look at things differently now because I see things through their eyes.

41:51 Amy Amy looks at things a lot more logically and analytically than Aaron does. Where is Aaron judge?

41:58 More often, I think just use the fun and things.

42:05 And just you know, it's just fun experiencing different parts of the world with them and then seeing how they react to things and and their questions about things a lot of times are they question things that I might even have thought about something that you learned from them.

42:30 Not anyting that I've learned from them that I can think of off the top of my head but something describing like how differently they look at things is taking them to Cirque du Soleil or the circus or you know, the Disney on Ice shows any of those sort of shows that we've been to and Aaron is always really just into the show and you hear say who and every time something new and exciting comes on and Amy just started dead deadpan looking at the show watching the show and you can just start to see the wheels turning in her mind while I wonder how they did that and how are they are they suspended in the air right now and

43:10 It's times like that that I really see the difference between them.

43:14 I shared a lot about my childhood. What are some of the things that you enjoyed about your childhood and some new memories with your your family?

43:26 I know Cape Cod was part of that. I would probably say that I'm going to do in Cape Cod every summer either just with our family or with our friendship means family was a great experience and getting to go to Provincetown every summer and going whale watching and ice cream at the Sunday school. So it's nice that my parents live there now so that we get to expose our kids to the same experience, which I think is wonderful.

43:54 You don't often talk about things that you did with Evan growing up other than your mother telling us stories about. How are you you were kind of a bully sister.

44:07 Yeah, that's what I remember just got to be some stories are some things that you've done with him that is left a lasting memory or an impression or something about him that strange. Do you know honestly we didn't I don't remember doing that much together. I do remember playing outside. There was a big rock sort of in the woods and by the driveway and I remember we called each other one of us was dipsy-doodle. The other one was Nipsey Noodle and that's really I I don't have I don't remember that much do both literal in the middle school and high school in the do spend a lot of time together now, not at all. I think we just had different interests different lives in different interest. Definitely.

45:02 To get those story of how you guys met.

45:05 I know, you know, I don't think they do.

45:11 I don't think so. Good. You always hear my version. So I would love to hear your version friend, basically.

45:23 Name David beven who I had met in New York when I was I think 15 he lives he lives in England. He still lives in England and he'd come to New York and worked at a summer camp that I also worked at and so, you know, we just became friends over the summer and he went back to England and we kept in touch and then a couple years later. I'm not quite sure of the time frame but a couple years later he came back to New York and worked in New York for a while when he met Sean's brother Gary and then Sean went back to England again came back to New York for a visit in 1990.

46:04 I was staying with Sean and his family and David called me and said, you know, why don't you coming to New York and see me at the time. I was a freshman in college in New Jersey. So it's a pretty easy bus ride over so.

46:20 Basically, I Sean came with David and a couple other friends. There's and pick me up at the bus station Port Authority back then it was It was kind of not the nicest place. I'm not sure how it is now, but she always likes to just tell everyone he picked me up at Port Authority. That's how you met me. But yeah make make it sound like I was hanging out with all the bums. There isn't really bums that I mean, it had a reputation of being the red light district. So that's how we met was through David and it wasn't like an intentional set up or anything. I just really want to see David and just started incidentally met Sean and did not like him at all when I first met him. He drove like a New York City cab driver, which is not really a good thing in my book.

47:15 Really? We're just really cocky and could never give a straight answer to any question and he still has some of those qualities, but eventually I overlooked them in here. We are.

47:32 That's a very good point. Even with that first impression of me. What made you still stay in touch? And I think the next day you called me something like six or eight times in one day, so I didn't really have a choice. When is it 2018? There's no way I would call you six times and

48:05 And you know, I just remember you calling me a lot and

48:13 You know, just you coming out to visit me at college or me going in to visit you and

48:20 You are perpetually late, which drove me nuts and Elsa. Remember you had a pager back then and that was

48:29 You're always running off to answer your pager and back then everyone thought papers were just for drug dealer. So that was kind of strange. Definitely no cell phones back then.

48:41 But you know, we've worked it out.

48:46 Realizing that there was certainly a racial difference.

48:52 But did you how did you think your parents would react and what did you think of the situation of the time and you know, I didn't really see it as an issue I had.

49:06 Even though I grew up in a in a very very white area.

49:14 I just didn't see it as an issue. I had the guys that I had.

49:19 Dating would be really strong word, but

49:24 That I had spent time with in the summers at summer camp were.

49:29 Pretty much always asking American. I am not for any particular reason it just happened that way so I didn't see you being Indian has an issue. I was slightly concerned about what my parents would think but you know, obviously they were okay with it.

49:47 Is there any advice you give to a mentor in about dating other than you know, I just I think the most important thing is.

50:06 Don't settle and

50:10 Whoever you're with needs to realize that you are.

50:14 Worthwhile and deserve everything and they should absolutely treat you that way and don't settle for anything less.

50:25 How about you? That's a good question.

50:30 Yeah, I would say I was going to gut feeling.

50:36 Have high standards for the way that you want to be in and received and look at.

50:47 The joy of life and what you can get out of it and then Choose Wisely based on and what do you think is important and use your judgment user experience use your resources?

51:03 But definitely

51:06 Definitely enjoy, but the Choose Wisely.

51:15 When was something about her there was just something to us different. I knew lots of different people and there's just something different. I can't put my finger on it. There's just something special about it something special. She has that up to a couple of an hour ago. We had an argument and but there's something uniquely special.

51:42 Just makes it easy to be around here and why I want to be around her and be with her and now it's it's worked out better than expected or hoped. I simply because the things that I never thought I can do in my life. I've far exceeded. I've accomplished more dreams than I ever had and it's in no short parted. Well, it's all due today is it really is I'll get her I could have gone to the places that I've been to and seeing the world as much as I've seen it without her not only by her my side but with her leading the way and having a vision and wanted to be a part of my dreams and she's made me complish more than ever and just just the other day. She she hit her right in the head when she said, you know, we really we have a good life and it isn't about money or it isn't about

52:37 Material things it's about we have a good life where you know, I like being with her.

52:48 Thank you.

52:53 Thank you for this time. It was really interesting and enlightening and I learned a lot. Thank you. Thank you for listening. And I also learned a little bit about you and your family.