Tim Lennon, Maya Lennon, and Fiona Lennon

00:04 All right. My name is myelin and I'm 16. It's September 4th, 2014. Where in San Francisco at the main library and I'm interviewing my father. My name is Fiona Lennon on 16. It's September 4th to South 2014. Where in San Francisco California the main library in my relationship to the storytellers?

00:31 Yes, my name is Tim Lennon on 67 today is September 4th 2014. We're in San Francisco at the San Francisco main library and I'm being interviewed by my twin daughters Tiana and my 11 going up in an Irish Catholic household was extremely religious parents. What would you say their attitude towards religious officials like a priest or even the pope were in your household the car out so many times and in fact, my abuser came to the house many times and you think that because your parents saw them as being closer to God daughter. Like you said, they were revered to think that they never assumed that this was going to happen to you or it was never question is thawed or do you think that they always like trusted them with you?

01:31 Yeah, I don't think that they did that they even considered it. I just think that they saw the priests is part of their Community is part of their neighborhood part of their Community. How old are you in this happened was twelve just before my 13th birthday hose and 8th grade. I believe did you tell anyone I know part of it is the culture was that you didn't speak about sex, especially it was never spoken in the household. And the other thing is at that time. I didn't understand it nor would have bent or even just the amount of injury that was caused. So I never never thought of it.

02:28 So, when did you remember? When did you start telling people 30 years after I read in the paper. There is a notice for people handing out leaflets from snap about people that are abused by priests and I just at that moment remembered I was abused by priests.

03:00 And up until that point. Did you not remember was it not something that you knew about yourself for?

03:12 Looking back I could see all the effects, you know affected my whole life or and continue to affect my life, but it's a Time.

03:23 Did you realize that there was something that you didn't know it was just a complete like absence of everything. Like was there something bothering you that you didn't know was bothering you that it was more that the memories just returned it just

03:41 You been then. I remembered it. But even then I only remember part of my abuse, I didn't remember at all and once you started to remember and we collect everything did you then tell your parents are you know, where you vocal about? What happened? And did you try to contact your abuser?

04:01 Once you remembered once I remembered is I got involved in a support group. There was a sponsored by the survivors network of those abused by priests a snap and I participated in the support group and even within the support group it took a long time for me to tell my story and I only told my story and parts just because it was so hard difficult sad and so even then I didn't have a full memory only remember part of it.

04:42 I was both molested for several months. I'll buy this priest who would take me to a ball game and or take me to a park or take me to a movie and then molest me only remember that part and it was until 50 years later that I remembered my rape and the charm of a very cruel in the horrific rape. So that took a long time telling my parents.

05:12 Took many many months after the support group participating in the support group, or I felt not ashamed not embarrassed and I told my parents do you think that you have healed since then?

05:30 Are you still in the process of healing child abuse is still healing? I don't think you get over the healing the kind and the amount of injury that is caused of a mycase depression nightmares low self-esteem. All these things have been part of things that I've experienced all my life, but it wasn't until I knew about my abuse.

06:04 That

06:07 That I connected what happened to me is a child affected my life. So telling my parents was an important part and then I told my brothers and sisters because

06:26 People like myself that are abused. We carry a burden of Shame and guilt and humiliation and it's difficult that the more we speak up. So an important part was telling my brothers and sisters and they provided tremendous amount of support your mother.

06:46 Was a huge huge support to me. I could not have made it without the support of your mother and

06:56 Helping me get through cuz at the time it was very sad and coming into these memories caused a lot of tears and Nightmares anxiety. Sometimes anger a lot of fear.

07:18 So telling people is very important to the healing, but I'm not healed but I'm better.

07:26 And my way of healing right now is helping others that have been hurt. So how did you address the problems caused by the abuse? Did the snap support group help you or was it more you helping them to support group was exceptionally important going to a therapist. I went to Fantastic therapist years of who specialized in trauma when I came into memories of my rape, which was 50 years after it happened.

08:02 TV memory was so horrible and riffic that it sent me into another kind of cycle of sadness of crying and depression and anger and fear and Nightmares, so

08:20 I started to go be involved with SNAP again. And the therapist was a tremendous help in April for me to function in to live in this world into Thrive and to be part of your lives. One interesting thing. Is that when I first and became aware of my memories and 95 another about 43-44

08:49 I participated in snap and the support group for about three years and felt I got better you'll if you will and then what happens a year 2 years later you girls born that's me. That was a direct connection to me healing and the gift of the blessing if you will of you being born and you know, you bought great great. Joy and to me it was a sign of of me developing into a fuller life not being tied to my past. And another part of my path to Healing is by working with SNAP is that's a way for me to heal another words when I was a kid.

09:41 I didn't fight back. I couldn't fight back. I didn't know what was happening. Some of it was very cruel. So when I work with people now, it's my way of fighting back. It's my way of of doing something that I couldn't do is get and so

10:07 I'm still in the process and me working with us survivors and doing.

10:13 What I can to help other survivors has been important to my healing. Have you tried to take any legal action against the abuser? You know, I did when I first came into memories as a deuce and after several months of participating in the support group, I did report it to the place they knew about him and they took report. I don't know if they actually still have the report but they took the report. I did write a letter to the diocese. I where I was abused and they wrote back a letter saying that my abuser father Murphy Peter Brenda Murphy had died several years ago. They said basically that everybody at that time didn't think is a big deal. If you didn't your family didn't we didn't priest and Anna

11:13 The end of the letter didn't say I'm sorry, or how can we help or that's too bad or nothing like that. I was in 1996 and I first came out of my abuse in 95.

11:27 When I came into memories of the Church of the rape, I contacted a lawyer because the rape was very horrific and I was very upset and

11:45 But because I had the laws are so weak that there was no opportunity for for criminal charges or civil charges to take against the church the church found and I did a lot of research and found out my abuser was known to the church to abused other kids at his previous assignment in Fort Dodge, Iowa. He worked in the high school and there was two boys and two young women that

12:16 We're a store abused by him. I put ads in a couple of newspapers of small towns where he was assigned and then people called me up and of course the church never notified any of the people that were abused by my father Murphy.

12:36 Since so the church is not not done anything other than no nanny.

12:44 Transferred a child abuser from one page to another parish and the only reason my view stopped was because father Murphy.

12:57 I had abused another child got caught by a parent and the parent reported to the diocese that I remove Murphy and then moving off to another Parish while I'm assuming you abused even more kids.

13:18 What advice would you give to people who are struggling with trauma from child abuse any age from you know, even from a child to an adult who is now deciding that they need to deal with it or just doesn't know how to what would you tell them?

13:36 Tell somebody the first thing is sometimes people think I'm the only one or sometimes. They think that it's Unique or that the victim did something wrong or the victim deserved at or so too many times.

13:56 Victims take on too big of a burden and what it needs to be is shared and hopefully when it's shared with other people with there's a family member or close friend or a school counselor.

14:13 Or psychologist by sharing is replacing the crime on the criminal and other words. It's a way of saying I was the victim that it wasn't my fault and that's the first thing and the other thing is that people that are participants in a conversation to have to recognize that.

14:40 That you were abused. It can't be like get over it or whatever. So then there has to be you no support and hopefully therapy for the professional or through other kinds of means to

15:00 Get a fuller understanding and breadth of what what is happening with the first thing is to acknowledge what happened? And we need to get away from the victim suffering alone blaming themselves. I think two is a virus seems like it's a reoccurring theme in most people that suffer from, whether or not as child abuse, but it seems like especially in child abuse when you're young and you don't know any better, you're so impressionable that you know, especially in your case, you know, you're only twelve the covers are you that's when you learn what's right and what's wrong and how to be treated, you know the burden

15:48 And do you still feel like you carry that burden or do you feel like I mean, I guess my question is deuced is a part of you still, you know have any claims he know not a fact but blame yourself not to cut you off but not so much. I don't think that I can.

16:11 Did I blame myself? I don't think that but I think there is, you know certain amount of Shame and humiliation. That's not how I introduce myself to people. It's not like hey, I'm a victim, you know, whatever.

16:28 But I think like doing this interview or working with SNAP or doing press events, you know speaking in public about my abuse is an important part of constantly me.

16:43 Focusing on who is who the who the abuser doesn't who's the victim. Do you think that because you know, you were put in the position where you had to submit and be passive at such a young age and such a very, you know, real situation whether or not you remembered it would still happens. You think that that affected your relationships with people throughout your life whether just be a friend or in a romantic way or even with your children or your family members. Do you think that that made you more submissive and submissive or do you think it made you more aggressive trying to not fall into those similar patterns again?

17:24 Well at the time I mean, I remember too. Well the abuse.

17:31 And the rate what is the time at 12 years old? I just didn't understand it. So but it is far as how it's affected my relationships as far as being submissive or aggressive. I would say. Yeah, I think clearly low self-esteem is always been something that has

17:59 Been a struggle and and sometimes I don't know that I'm an aggressive person. So I don't know how that would be but as far as

18:15 The other part of your question about Howard what happened to me?

18:22 Touches people that are close to me for instance I could speak in in historical sense all by difficulty with relationships have always been difficult. I think relationships into cells can be difficult but is you know your mother and I

18:46 You know getting divorced I think has a part of that as far as my relationship with you girls. I think in a large way as I mentioned before is by me healing allowed me to accept

19:12 The beautiful gift of you girls, you know, and that has brought great joy to my life.

19:20 So yeah, it's bad effects.

19:28 And I think it has affected your view of religion.

19:34 What do you know?

19:38 I grew up as is my setting in. The first part is in a very strict of formal Catholic religion with going to Catholic schools all through high school and everything was you had to do I mean was very and I'll go to mass every day and every day every weeks.

20:01 But when I went to the Army and when I went to

20:07 Got away from home. I just sort of fell away from its I don't think was connected necessarily to my abuse.

20:25 Okay. So do you have any religious beliefs or spiritual place to improve my world? So that's the essence of it. Do you think that you know, you're

20:45 I guess openness about your abuse, especially with you know, a lot of our family members and Fiona and I are on sin ankles who are very religious to think that you're you know being open with them about what happened change their perspective reviews on the church. Would you think that you know your experience, you know impacted the people around you like who are growing up with you at the time.

21:12 Right. I don't think that it's had that much of fact, I think the those that are very religious continue and they're being religious and that this is seen as an individual aberration of particular priests or whatever. But the Catholic church is sort of demolished any kind of credibility with their long history of covering up my abuse. They covered up the abuse and up until

21:46 My reporting in about 4 years ago, they denied that my abuser was an abuser except they had my letter and they they had other complaints in the church. Did that constantly blowing you off. Did it make you feel like your abuse was invalid or that all the feelings you had? Were you no wrong or for no reason or but they were not correct to have I mean what I guess my question is, you know, how did the church's you know, nonchalant attitude affect your feeling toward your abuse. Well, I think you know a large part. It was what I call Ryu abuse and other words the

22:33 Disrespect the Dennis dismissive character of how they dealt with me I think is similar to many other survivors are clergy abuse is it's an institution that wants to protect itself. So I'd like the boy scouts or the Jehovah's Witnesses or even the military with the generals covering up meaning of the abuse of my magnetism. Do you think that if you had been open about your abuse when it happened or even you know, while you were still living at home? Do you think that you're that something might have happened to him besides just being transferred to another clergy. Do you think that you know, well if

23:24 I mean he was caught and as I understand it red-handed abusing a child by a parent buy a father you would think that the first thing would be to report to the place and get the guy off the street and hopefully in jail where he belongs, but I don't do that.

23:45 Besides the Catholic religion not but the turnstiles dial not.

23:58 Sylvania validating your abuser, you know playing that role in the Beast what other ways what other roles did they do in or what?

24:10 What other roles did they play in Europe East decides not just how about not protecting you or the other people, you know an abuser and then they moved him but are there any other ways like

24:27 I know in a lot of religions you go to confession. Is there did you ever confessed to another priest about it or did you confess to anyone in that religion or in that church about it between 12 years old and 44 whatever. I never thought of it and a 12u No Looking Back is you know, I did not understand it a night and I can't remember ever having a memory after the abuse. In fact, I don't know whether that's a rape happened before the mother stations are the most stations happen after or where it was in the Quran Allah, but he abused me and you know, he would come to the house and he would father Murphy would come into the house and it's a are going to take them to the movies while I'll go hide.

25:28 You know when a large family talk kids are always be a brother and sister said hey Tim's in the basement. I knew that it was not safe. I was wrong. It's not safe. Whatever. I knew that much as a kid what to do options and you know within you know, at least at that time as much more

26:00 Conservative is we didn't talk about sex at all. I mean that was I mean you girls grew up in a household where were very open about life in human beings and getting sacked so that but I found me that was a very bold and kind of that was think that if your parents, you know, I mean, I know Irish Catholic Crystal Knotts open about sex, but you think that, you know, your parents and isolated incident if they were more open about that to think that you would have been comfortable telling them or do you think that you didn't tell them just because they were so

26:37 Religious and Catholic and had such ties to the church at 12 years old it was you know is just was not an environment that you spoke and again,

26:52 I just didn't understand or just didn't know but we like it ate it on me than there are how do you start that conversation? You shouldn't have to that's why there's no good way to start it, but

27:13 So

27:15 We got a question here girls. So what were your parents like?

27:23 Play my father was very much a A type personality you worked in the Stockyards buying and selling fakes. He worked hard at that and in his afternoons, he would work on his pizza business at 12 kids at my parents had 12 kids in the ages of 18 and 34.

27:51 So they had a lot to do my mother.

27:58 Not religious, but God bless her way to describe showing washing clothes cleaning the house 12 kids babies. I grew up with babies the whole but I do have an interesting story about my father and I think I've told you the one before about the caramel that we grew up in a very formal household and then with 12 kids my parents 14 people around the table. We always have to make plaid conversation. We always had to eat what was on our plate people were served as like by God if your mother cooked at Union,

28:47 And then one time they had squash which I hate still hate that does the same day. My mom had made caramel apples, which was a tree.

28:59 And then the deal was if you didn't eat your dinner, you didn't get dessert so I didn't eat my dinner cuz I didn't eat my squash so they sent me to my room which I was crying and crying for me and I was up playing my Lincoln Logs later in the evening feeling sorry for myself and my father comes up with a paper bag and my mom says in the paper bag, so nothing comes in and he has a caramel apple for me.

29:29 One of my cute stories about my father and my mother was so

29:38 Beautiful girl she was beautiful, but

29:42 Busy busy and we had a flu with hit the family or everybody had the mumps for the meeting house and she would have three or four or six kids sick or just going down the line of these kind of illnesses and my mother always stepping up working hard from anode a break.

30:08 All kids do you think your brothers or sisters had any idea that something was going on with you that I remember going to my room cuz I was raped in our house.

30:29 And I remember at the time myself in three of my brothers. We lived on the third floor in a couple bedrooms up at the top and I'm never going up the stairs and crying and crying and crying and my older brother or younger brother. Kevin said

30:50 He didn't know anything was happening, but he does remember me. Just crying and crying you're crying.

30:59 So but no one knew and did you find out about father Murphy, right bum or abusing another person when you were younger. Did your family be here about it, or did you just because the story was that he got caught by this parent abusing the kid and that his father reported to the Monsignor of the parish Monsignor Flanagan Another Irish guy and my senior found a gun punched out the father Murphy. So we want ye but we didn't talk about didn't hear about this or that all quiet.

31:54 So one question for you that is going back a little bit is you know how you have seen the effects of my abuse princess when I first came out I was before you were born and then when I came into the recent memories of my rape, I remember I had many weeks of of crying and being depressed and Nightmares and I'm sure you guys noticed that and then just curious is what you were thinking or feeling.

32:32 Well, I just remembered that the first time you told me that you were molested probably before you knew that you were raped was when I was 8 and I was drying the dishes with you and we were listening to the radio and someone they were talking about Amo station. And I said what's that and you explain it to me and you're like and I was molested and you know, I was like I was like, oh, okay. And as I got older you continue to just share with me more and more and I don't know I just it was just something that we knew about you and you know, I don't think we really fully understood the severity of it until we were old much older but I would say I do remember I think when you remember the right, we're probably in like middle school right now. There's a story to that is one reason why I think I remember the rate was because you girls were turning 12.

33:28 That makes sense.

33:39 So anyhow, I think that you're turning 12, so I'd have tried to bring him back. Most of the members are some memories that I still can't remember but I'm thankful for every minute that you guys grow older that you aren't.

33:57 Harmed

34:00 I don't think this.

34:04 Is that like?

34:06 I just know for me personally because like, you know, I had to experience some hard stuff that like, you know, it was not good, but it was it was good that he know unlike you I had someone to share it with so I think you understand, you know, all the emotions that I felt including you waiting myself and

34:32 Yerington

34:35 Tell me about because there wasn't like anyone else I can talk to about it, you know, because no one understood who's my age none of my friends, and I was just

34:51 It made a really big difference since you know, I'm sure that you was when you were younger and when it happened to that you could have told people but and God help but you know like

35:04 It just motivated me more to get help and take care of myself.

35:11 It was just really important to me.

35:15 The new Lexus I feel like you provided me with the support that I needed when that you needed when you were younger and you just have passed it on to me instead support Spotify.

35:31 Horus

35:38 But I always just seen in one way that that affected me because you can just be there for me in a way that

35:46 Only someone who has suffered abuse, you know young could be and that was

35:53 That really affected me and impacted me but it'll really really good way because

36:00 It's important. Turn to your dad when you need help.

36:05 I'll always be there for you, sweetie.

36:16 Human Minecraft

36:21 I'm getting back to your question. I don't really remember too much cuz we were young and again, I didn't really understand how big of a deal I didn't really understand the concept too much or, you know too much about it cuz we were like 8, but

36:40 But when we were twelve I didn't notice, you know your attitude or not your attitude, but just your demeanor and the way you acted was definitely a little bit.

36:51 Satyr need to try to hide it from us or you know, not show it too much, but firstly I just thought you and Mom were fighting about that's that's honestly what I thought it was. I didn't really realize too much until you told me and that instance. Your mother was a tremendous support and drooling and going to therapy was exceptionally important because it was not something that I you get through myself, but also the snap support group was important and talking with other survivors was important so

37:36 But I do want to say that you know through this.

37:46 My work with SNAP.

37:48 Therapy, your mother support group has made me stronger and more confident and

37:56 So I'm I'm

38:01 Feel that I'm growing and thriving and I don't think consider myself healed. I consider myself evening. And as long as I'm fighting back if it's part of my and if we have one more minute is, you know, a lot of survivors maybe half that I know are talked about maybe you should forgive your abuser. My feeling is I'm not forgiving you angry guy. My idea is to use that energy that anger to help other survivors protect children because that's the most important thing make sure what happened to me ever happens to another job.

38:58 So is there anything else you girls would like to know I call you girls, but God you're 16 and young women anything else you are young woman would like to know know. I think think they fit the gist of it. I'm sure we could be going on for hours, but constant support you girls have been supportive of me. So, I love you.