Bethany Synder and Kristian Maul

00:04 Hi, my name is Bethany Snyder and I am 40 years old and today's date is October 28th, 2017. And we're at the San Francisco library, and I am talking with my partner Chris.

00:19 And my name is Christian mall. That's Christian with a K. I'm 36 years old. Today is October 28th 2017 and we are at the public library in San Francisco. I'm here with my partner and spouse Bethany Schneider.

00:35 So

00:37 We are talking about how we start our family and our family formation when you were younger. Did you always know that you want to have kids and start a family?

00:47 I always knew that I wanted kids in my life. Even when I was a kid myself. Like I love being around other kids I think most do but then when I was growing up and you know a teenager, I just enjoyed same time with younger kids and I'm babysitting on your cousins and that kind of thing and hanging out when I first kind of starting to figure out my identity stuff particular in my gender identity. I wasn't quite sure how that was going to work in the future like how I would maybe become a parent or if I would have a partner who would want parent a child with me. So those things are a little bit fuzzy in my mind for me for a long time. But yeah, I think I always had that sense of I wanted to have you no child or children in my life and some how about you?

01:38 I never saw myself as being a mother and I wasn't wasn't really something I like. When I grow up I want to be a mom that was never really part of my life goals, but

01:53 I knew like what I met you and we started talking that I wanted to have a family with you. I converted you can ride over to the dark side or the light side.

02:06 Could you list?

02:08 Sure.

02:11 I was in graduate school in Minneapolis and we met I was at a at a gay bar with some friends and I saw Chris walk in with some friends and I thought that's the one I want to get to know. I didn't know you were with a group of women. So I didn't I didn't know if you were a lesbian or how you identified one of those people you were with so you Christmas a story, but you know I sent over.

02:36 Send over some friends to check out the situation for me. You had a little Recon. Should I go in on at the date night beef? I mean the 19 bar and miss ya know. I wasn't with any of them. And even if I was I would have wanted to talk to you anyway, but I remember like right away you are like just so you know, I'm transgender and I said okay are going to buy me a drink. That's exactly what you described as a perfect lion-eye. That's like when I was just newly out to other people. So that was a thing like, you know in those social situations, like people weren't visibly reading me some crayons and so I was making kind of a conscious effort to like, okay. I want people to know this is my identity because I wasn't like emotionally connected to you. So I didn't I didn't care. I didn't bother me at all. You don't I think that was kind of probably really hoping a good experience and you said for yourself

03:36 Define response what you think then.

03:46 Well, I immediately why I just meant I moved from to Minneapolis from Washington DC. And so I had learned that you had got done it internship in DC at legal internship. And so we immediately started talking about that and I loved your quick wet. You could keep up with me and laugh and like have an interesting conversation. And so I knew immediately I like this is someone I want to continue get to know ya same with me, I think.

04:18 I have been in Minneapolis quite a while at that point and so, you know, how many episodes of City by in a lot of ways it's kind of a small town to you especially with the lgbtq community in the queers on so you're like wow like, who is this person? She is smart and funny. She's beautiful and there's a lot of softball lesbian wedding and Minneapolis in the midwest. Nothing against softball, but not really my type. Yeah. It was great. I think he's a conversation and then connection that we both felt and ended up talking to tell bar close at night.

05:09 Yeah, so I think you know, I'm like reflecting back now on that night we met and I remember that night we even like not talking about it in context of you know, do you want to have a family with me but I think that was like a subject that we even kind of Broach that very first conversation was like like you know, what do you kind of like, what do you want in the future for yourself? Like what do you see yourself is wanting to do like you said about me and I finished up an internship in DC now with during law school and I think you were kind of maybe thinking about moving back to DC. So we talked about the DC things you like and I was like now I can never live there. I would just die from the weather. I'm not a like swampy muggy kind of sweating through my suit everyday kind of person so we shut that down but we did talk about other things like oh, where do you see yourself living even know. What do you see?

06:07 Basically, like what are you going to be when you grow up kind of conversation important to both of us and being engaged in the political process and how that impacted our personal lives. And so I was always surprised by how few LGBT people

06:29 I think politics is important to them. And so I really appreciate it that that was something that we had in common though. We really found.

06:40 But each other yeah because it's not it's not politics to us. That way. It's like the daily life together and live and raise our child things are credit called in so many in our community.

06:58 Yeah, so I wanted to ask you about kind of identity stuff and we've talked about this a lot, especially since our daughter was born over seven years ago now, but I know like that you have for you like being a mother or being a parent wasn't something that was necessarily always part of your life plan. So, how do you feel now that you are a mom? Like, how is that impacted some of your other pieces of you your other identities? Yeah. Well with you that being a mom does not come easily to me and it's one of the most challenging part of my life by Alta most rewarding.

07:38 And

07:40 In some ways. I feel like being a parent erases or LGBT identity in the world. But in other ways it's even more important now than ever for our daughter. Understand like who we are the family and who both of us are so that's been

07:59 You know a learning opportunity we talk about this. Another thing when having a kid is like you can you get out at it all the time. You and I mainly you cuz I haven't been interested in my lesbian identity of this moment, but

08:15 It feels unsafe a lot cuz you just you don't have any control over it. And so that's why I've been the biggest challenge. I don't think anyone ever told me which people talk about LGBT parenting so surprising but

08:30 Yeah that she luckily have no shame about it at this moment. And so she is free to tell anyone about who our family is and

08:38 Yeah, put some kind of uncomfortable situations like last week when she decided to tell basically the whole Daisy Girl Scout Troop that I'm transgender and Alyssa pumpkin patch field trip. Yeah. I know it is scary. I mean in those moments sometimes I freeze like oh my gosh, what am I supposed to do right now, but I also really appreciate how it's pushing me out of my comfort zone, you know, cuz I like obviously I wouldn't have probably broadcast my transgender identity at the pumpkin patch which included you know, what I think four or five people that I literally had just saying that cuz their new Daisy Scouts to the troop, but you know, it happened and so I just let her do a Lego table talk about it there and then I followed up with all the parents afterwards like I didn't want it to to try to engage the conversation last night. But yeah, I know I think that's a great that she's

09:38 Me and US kind of outside because we know we both know kind of back to the maybe politics or policy piece of it. Like the way that we make policy change is to tell our story is I think we have to tell you about our story. So if now there are, you know, a dozen stay-at-home moms from Roseville California that has know that they know it's a line whose transgender like if that Sunday is going to impact the way that they vote on a ballot initiative or you know, who they vote for to represent us in our Congress. It's like then it's all worth is worth me being uncomfortable at a pumpkin patch for that to happen. So I'm really proud of Evelyn for that and it's like one of the things I'm worried about is as she gets older is she going to start to feel that shame like I'm going to start to cry.

10:32 I don't want her too. And it's like I can't protect her from that. You know, like there's nothing that I can do.

10:41 About all the stuff that happens outside of our house, you know outside of this bubble that we're trying to create for her that's very supportive and affirming. I just I wish I could do something to change it but I can't so all we can do is to keep reinforcing like that. You know that we're awesome and that she's awesome and that people that do hate others or that

11:10 Like purposely try to not understand other people's life experiences that you know, they're wrong and I think keep the if we keep reinforcing that hopefully that will come back some other messages that she gets from the rest of the world. Like even my we talked about even a response that your email to the daisy troop moms like

11:33 Times are changing walk away and like I think even all the great positive responses you received may not have happened years ago. I think as I get older that only hopefully we'll go in that direction. And so that's what gives me hope. And then also we already seeing her personality like her feistiness and I just hope she stays feisty. That's one of the many qualities. She's gotten from you. I think that are fantastic. So yes, I hope she retains it and this is feisty as you are and she's an adult.

12:09 Adults are 18 year old Evelyn, what would you do?

12:20 Go ahead honey. I was going to say at my my message dating rolled up on would be like you are a kick-ass person like just keep doing you at work because I got like everyday and her creativity like her humor her kind heart like all those things are such a great influence on me. So if she can keep doing that, I don't know where all that like she is going to help change. The world is better just by being who she is.

12:52 Yeah, I hope she just retains that confident that she has now and

12:59 Yeah, just stays who she is and doesn't let the world get her down. I don't think she will.

13:07 I think she'll continue to that's why I think so amazing about having her now, even at like 7 or 11 like, you know, even we had our struggles with her preschool and kindergarten like share again about her family and may be inappropriate ways and times but I was just impressed like this little kid was impacting these adults and I might have the kindergarten teacher we thought about how she thought about gender and gender identity and the principal in the school psychologist. I'm thinking like this little 6-year old is impacting these for adults and she doesn't even play just by being her like she doesn't even know it. So just thinking about like her as an adult.

13:47 What she can do will be amazing. Right? Like when she purposely you think that you're like family of origin has impacted your parenting Style.

14:09 Yeah, that's a great question. Like we were talking before about like Role Models. Maybe we'll talk more about that like so I have a relationship with both my mother and father like I grew up in a household where my parents were married and you know, really small town the groin area. So pretty much everyone in our world was like one mom when Dad cisgender straight couple had more than one child usually so I feel like for me my family of origin like doesn't provide much of a role model like someone that to emulate just because of my identities around gender, but I definitely think it's impacted my parenting so, you know, my my dad had to travel quite a bit for his work when I was growing up and my mom worked also, but she worked in the school so she would ever Summers off so I can remember pretty much every summer.

15:09 I'm from elementary school through at least Middle School, you know my sister and I would be home with my mom Mike all day everyday all summer and my dad would be traveling for work so he wouldn't be home. So I kind of feel like in some ways. Well my dad and mom were together and I live with both of them. Like I didn't have that kind of constant, you know, Dad around just because he was traveling so much the one of the things that consciously the parent I wanted to make sure that I prioritize no spending time with my child and I know the reality of it is if you have a job and you have to travel like that's my dad had to do at the time. I think if he had a choice maybe he would have chose something different but I've been fortunate enough that I do have a choice. So, you know, I've chosen a job where I do get to spend more time with her I get to take her to you know, Daisy Scout field trips and I get to go volunteer school and all those things and that generally I'm there to help Tucker in

16:09 And just to be there so that that's one way that it's impacted me. How about for you?

16:16 Yeah, I think definitely my mother was very committed to her career. And that's only that impacts me and while it was hard as a kid always have my mom be busy. I I could see how much cry if she had in her career. And so that I have a lot of pride in my career as well. And so that was really but then my dad was a very engaged father because my mom had her job. So I really appreciated that and love that you have taken that on for our child as well.

16:50 How do you think your gender identity has impacted being a father?

16:55 Yeah, I think like that word father seems really weird to me. I don't like I don't know if I've ever refer to myself as that one's father. Maybe it's just like the formality of that word or something to

17:09 But I think it's like

17:11 Yeah, so so I'm a trans guy. I have not biologically related to Haviland and I think for some people they're like, well, does it feel like something's missing? Like is there something that you'd feel like not in your holy connected to her and I mean it's hard because I don't have a child that I am biologically related to to compare with but I can't imagine Feeling Anymore connected to a human than I do to her. You know, it's like like nothing's missing that matters Darrow percent to me that we don't share any DNA. It's like this this little human as soon as she was born. Well before she was born he even was like so much.

18:02 A part of our life and a part of my life that and I don't think that it matters are also like for that piece of it for me. I don't think necessarily my gender identity has impacted it. I think kind of all the rest of it like the actual parenting pieces of it.

18:23 I feel like I have a lot more freedom. Then probably other dads our fathers do I think this is probably changing to buy just thinking about like a generation ago. I think so many dads were like reluctant to be really Hands-On are really involved with their kids lives because that isn't The Stereotype, you know, what the weather supposed to be out working and I'm bringing home the bacon or whatever cliche you want to use and so I feel like in a lot of ways. I have more freedom because I obviously I don't buy into any of those stereotypes about what a dad or a man should or shouldn't do or should know she can be so that's great that it cuz I don't have that.

19:08 Yeah, I am trying to think if there is anything when we make it up but I can't I just feel like it's it's just open up so many more possibilities for me where we talked about this where the difference between the my experience in becoming a mom where I felt for some reason.

19:25 So

19:27 Trapped by that motherhood ideal and how in other aspects of my life.

19:37 I didn't give a crap about like what is a traditional partner or woman? I just did my own thing, but they might have become a mom. I felt like overwhelmed by what mom is supposed to be and I think it has I think that shows how entrenched those ideal motherhood.

20:00 How much that in our culture we have like this ideal motherhood ideal.

20:07 That even someone like me who doesn't ascribe to that stuff was even weighed down by it. And I you know after you know, whenever one of the baby it was really hard for me to reconcile. I felt guilty all the time. Like I'm not a good enough mom, or I'm not doing this right or that I wasn't going to my job because I let you know you feel pulled in all these different directions are like now going to be a mom and you're not good at doing your job and let go to whole identity you suck at. I feel like I did but she's gotten older. I've definitely feel like I have grown more comfortable with I don't have to ask right like

20:43 Dido I shouldn't let these ideals shackle me and putting me down. I mean I was actually really surprised that you were and still are hard having those feelings about not living up to the mom label all because you do just you know, you don't care about me or I should say about stereotypes are related to labels. I mean that's like something that sounds like since you were even a child I've heard stories from your parents are from you about, you know, you didn't care. What a girl is supposed to be doing and I didn't care ybl that young lady was supposed to be doing and so do me. I was really surprised but then, you know, it doesn't make sense because you think about all of the images out there and popular culture in the media to some extent about you know, what the mom dies and what the dad does he know that's kind of the framework. And so if you're internalizing all of those

21:43 Things like nobody can live up to that. You can't be like a successful career professional and do all of these things that are typically a mom is supposed to do it just doesn't work when you don't even realize how much you like. You don't even realize that I didn't I guess realize how much those mom sayings and even know they were there until I had a kid and then all the sudden you're like, oh my gosh, you know, that's what's amazing is like it's so pervasive you don't even feel it like somehow I do or deceived and your Consciousness are your brain and then once you were a mom you're like, I'm not doing any of this or I don't want to do this or whatever the case was where we live now. It's really hard for you and me to make adult friends are like Mom friend I got for lack of a better word because I've as I say being a mom isn't my lead identity. And so if that's something that the only thing we have in common

22:43 Is that we're both moms like it's not going to go very far for me. Like I don't have any interests and talk about being a mom for more than 15 minutes unless it's funny. Last week. But yeah, it's so I have to I have to be able to connect with people on other levels and then if we are Mom that's great in our kids in a long it's even better. But yeah, yeah that's challenging cuz I feel like a lot of the Evelyn's friend look like hard for me to like to do a playdate weather talk to their moms for an hour while you were really hard for me to drop off, started happening like in the past year old enough. We don't need to stay at the house and talk whenever the dad welcome. Yeah, I mean it is true. I think that when we moved out to California, so we live in Reno Roosevelt, which is a suburb of Sacramento and it's

23:43 It's a much more politically conservative area and I would say just culturally also and the bulk of the families that I live in our neighborhood and that Evelyn goes to school with, you know, they are a stay-at-home mom and then a dad who goes off and work somewhere and sometimes has gone traveling for a length of time and

24:04 Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard for me to relate to the dads to thymine found a better that's like that, you know. It's my gender identity and just in general like often times it's hard for me to relate to cisgender men. Yeah, so I think do you think Evelyn as far as like her friends that she's making my call their moms stay-at-home. I think she has that to me like

24:36 Why do you have to go away to go to work now? I think she definitely notices. I mean not even remembering when she was in transitional kindergarten when we first moved to California. And I think she said something almost exactly like that. Like will everyone else's mom stays home. Why do you go to work Mom? And you know, you said something like well mom has a job and I really like what I do that's important to me. That's why I do it. So and I think you know my sister decided to stay at home with our nephew. And so I think that when my sister decided that last year to like that was kind of prompting that one that question will why do both of you work but now, you know and China staying home and only Billy work Uncle Billy work, so I definitely think she noticed it. She hasn't necessarily Express like that. It's a good or bad thing when we go the other and hopefully we're not like I don't want to like say it's always bad to have a snack.

25:36 No, it's probably ideal to have one stay-at-home parent as a family can swing that if you're a two-parent or more, you know, two or more parents type household to have one at home, but I just think for most that's not the reality and I want her to know that no matter who she grows up to be that there are options available for whatever she wants to do as far as life and family and all those things out.

26:02 Can you all talk about your decision to have a child or children?

26:08 Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think so. Maybe this is the first question you asked me about to be but so like I always wanted to have a child or children in my life in some capacity. So after we had been dating for a while and eventually decided like we wanted to commit to each other, you know for a long time for the rest of our lives, hopefully, yeah, we did start talking a little bit more seriously about are we going to have children and like when and I'll be going to create a family? Yeah. I remember like

26:45 And I don't know like some of this I feel like we probably just made assumptions about things but I also think it was true, you know, 10 years ago, you know, I is a transgender man and he was allowed in your thinking about like, okay private adoption. Like would anyone even work with us would we make it through Foster clearances? You know, like how would that work? And like, okay. What are we going to do if we're going to create our own baby? I don't think I would ever I don't think I should ever care even if I wanted to because of, you know, all of the things that come along with that and people not understanding like how can the sky be pregnant and they all a lot has happened in the past 10 years with all of those things for the better. So that trans people can you have trouble themselves if they want and Foster and adopt which we all should be able to adopt great. So I think for us where we just kind of defaulted to was like okay for going to have a baby then Bethany.

27:45 Let's figure out. How do we get you pregnant and its lowest barrier to entry barriers to entry. So yeah, and then, you know, we we decided to wait until after we had gotten married to start down that process and I was actually excited to be able about me. Basically. Let me help part. Let me fly pick out the sperm donor. So why not let you I said I'm going to do it for the rest of the work at least you can do is pick out the right side. It's like I like you love me so then I did feel like okay. I'm I'm contributing up paying for this puzzle of like how we're going to to bring a baby into the world.

28:33 Yeah, and what else do you want to say about it? I mean we could talk about your whole pregnancy. Now at first I was really important to you for those options and whether you can have Evelyn can learn to the sperm donor as when she's 18 vs. We can shut the door on that. And so we interesting Lena has had this option called donor ID where when she turned 18 she can meet or know who he is. Not me him by like get his information. Right and he was open to that. But if we find some paper

29:11 That would be closed. Right and we had a definite Evolution over the last seven years about that. I mean for me when we first we're going to the process. I was like no way. I don't want our child to know who the sperm donor is. Why would they want to do that? First off? Like I'm going to be their dad so why didn't even know who this biological matter came from the Uno helps morning and then I mean frankly it was just a thought. It was in Security on my part because then back down before we had a devil and I was like, well is a child kind of think like a child going to love me like they would someone who was biologically related, you know, which is like crazy to even say that out loud. So I was just really insecure about that and

30:02 I think it's new learning from other families who have been through it. I'm even hearing great, you know podcast and stories through a different NPR and then other I'm storycorps and other places of the families that have been through it. I think it makes

30:18 It makes so much more sense for her to at least have that option when she is an adult. So I've only done a one-eighty on that and you know, if Evelyn when she is a teenager wants to do it. I will fully support it. And I think it's something that we haven't talked about those. You know, we've been really open and honest with Evelyn about how she was created like we found some great books that talk about it and I found some of her donor siblings. Yes. That was a big a big thing. So she's seeing through Facebook a closed Facebook group no pictures of her donor siblings and like she knows kind of white that means and she knows about those other kids who have the same sperm donor as she does but have different families security knows like okay. There's this person who's the sperm donor who gave sperm so that you know, so I like Mom to get pregnant with me and then there's these other kids that they had the same.

31:18 And maybe even someday we'll get to meet them. I know there's talk of maybe doing some for you need in the next year to do that. But I just think that's amazing because like again back to her like feeling shame or me when she's older. Like I don't want this to ever be something that she feels bad about like just because there was a sperm donor person that helped biologically make her that much as part of her story and it's nothing for her to feel like ashamed about her that she needs to hide or run from the future when I think that was yeah, I think are turning point was when we like

31:55 Why would we not get what why don't want her to grow up with his mom and dad. Why did you have an opportunity? I could learn more about this.

32:04 Genetic history of mine and you shut the door on it. Like it had nothing only to do with our own insecurities and we should we should be able be strong enough to let Evelyn make that decision which is why would you want to make a decision for her when she can make that decision when she gets older and we should be strong enough to be able to deal with it and have nots our ego is bruised. But I think you're right when before you have the kid. You don't realize like now it's you silly of Court like but she would think of this Anonymous individual as something in our family when that person plays no role in our day-to-day life, right? Yeah. I know. I think I'd like I told him 180 there is a part of me though. That's what's a little bit worried to make. Okay, when she's a teenager and is like really upset with us about a teenager oration of the next time we talk like is she going to pull out the whole like, you know, you're not my real dad. Anyway, like I'm trying to mentally prepare myself.

33:04 Because I think those words may at some point come out of her mouth and I know she would honestly mean that it would be like from a place of just trying to hurt and being upset. But yeah, I mean, it's like I don't want her to actually feel that in that I thought that maybe I could prevent that somehow if she just didn't have access to knowing who the sperm donor was in the future which is ridiculous because the theme of parenting thing we can control anything you really cannot specially when it comes to her and what she does or thinks. Yeah.

33:39 If you feel comfortable sharing, could you describe how you both felt when you saw Evelyn first time that's kind of a funny story because

33:50 So whatever it was like a crazy kind of interesting birth story, but the one she came out I missed the it's a girl. It's a boy announcement. And obviously it had been made because everyone seemed in the room to know until they wrap up your baby and wrap her up and start my chest and not that it matters whether she was a girl about that guy just wondered but then I'm like, when's the right time to ask for that credit and I turned around a lot of leg medication at that point to help you get to your birth experience and there is kind of some chaos when she was actually born like but yeah, but once I saw her like I remember the first thing I thought was oh my God, she has my eyebrows. All I saw was eyebrows at Birth.

34:50 I don't even know how to describe it. It's like I was sobbing of course. I was just sobby and I was so overwhelmed and I mean I think part of it too was that mean she looks like like you or like I mean, it was kind of a weird looking, you know and fantasmo star when they are being born, but I could just look at her and see like, oh my God like this is like our tiny Bethany and she's beautiful and she's going to be just as amazing and Spunky and sassy as her mother that the first minute I just knew you could tell and then I was like also and I was worried about you during that time again, but you know, you kind of had a rough breathing experience. And so I was like all this emotion just came up. So I was sobbing so is a little all that is for me to say that it was a little hard actually like to see her.

35:50 I remember that feeling like this is the mom thing. We're like, I feel like I was how I felt absence of excitement not absence of exciting but I felt like I looked at her and I thought

36:06 Well, I'm glad she's here. I'm glad that's done. But I remember thinking like are you supposed to be overwhelmed that these feelings of like maternal like love right away and I didn't feel that. I mean, I felt like I didn't have another one of these pervasive cultures and Grill give a surge of emotion that comes over you and I think I happened over the next few days. But I mean, I just been up for 3 days. I don't have a lot of sleep heavily medicated. Have you been updated and so I didn't have like this like overwhelming?

36:36 I keep my fingers you'll find it. But after you talk to more people about their birth stories, you hear that that's also, not to have that surge of emotion right away. It's never liked the movie instantaneous love not necessarily, but I remember when we had to go home at like we take all these nurses with us cuz they come home with us feed me and Feed Us. Yeah. I remember how one of our delivery nurses had a trans partner. Hope you didn't know that what the nurse came in, right? How amazing to have this nurse that was like so affirmative of our family and was never an issue and she was great to such a great Advocate. How do we need anything? But just to know that this person knew who we were knew our story and was just so affirmative I didn't

37:33 I didn't know it'd be so meaningful know. I totally let means that the hospital just intense anyway, so to know that she was there in like if we didn't need anything or have any problems or anything that she was there to Advocate and she was right. She is feisty. I'll be there.

37:58 Makes a good parent.

38:02 I definitely think the recognizing that

38:07 At some point you don't have control. I think a lot of my I think this is why I think this is being lgbtq and farms are parenting is like icy or maybe a lot of my friends are other folks who have

38:20 All these things wrapped up in their children or like how they Envision their future and I feel like

38:28 What we bring to it and you just you you never know like you shouldn't.

38:33 Imagine your kid getting married or having a specific kind of part life partner even having a life partner wanted to be a parent and I think that some of the we bring to Evelyn as if we don't have any of those we don't have any preconceived notions of who she's going to be when she grows up what I think we had for ourselves more pants and it's not a bad thing. Just I think parents just do it. And then that's when you have a disappointment. Oh my kid wants to my daughter wants to marry another woman. Oh my son. What's my email or my son is my daughter, you know, and I think that's where this appointment of parents comes in when they have these

39:09 Play Spotify through their kid is going to be I feel it's great for us. Like we know what we don't know. However, she is we're just going to have to love her and accept her and be there for her. That's so true. I also think what makes a good parent is really trying to find things. I appreciate about your kids like especially, you know, when they're in the middle of that like toddler tantrum or whatever just recognizing like

39:38 This kid has amazing strength or amazing abilities and will do great things but it's like yeah, I'll find a way to get through the hard time to really appreciate those. I think that makes a good parent is being able to find those things to temperature about your kid all the time in Korean.

39:59 Is there any last thing that you would want the World At Large to know about your family? Well, I definitely with the world so hard to know about that. Chris has the most amazing father. Thanks, honey. And there are a lot of examples of Trans dads in the world.

40:21 And apps in about you. I mean you do you're amazing chart here making your charting New Path for people thinks. Yeah. I just want the world to know that you know, no matter what your gender identity or expression that were all humans and like we know what love is we know how to love a child and we know how to parent a child just like anyone else. So just just let us do it as many barriers of people put up like when you come parents like you had like we all are in it together right together. Thanks, honey for sharing everything today you're too.