Jonathan Koshi and Jessica Hemerly

00:07 Hi, my name is Jess. I am 33 today's date is April 11th, 2015 and we are at 86 Valencia in San Francisco, California. And my storycorps partner. Here is my husband.

00:28 My name is cauchy I am 39 today. Today is my birthday April 11th, 2015. We are as just said we are an a-26. We're in the back office actually, and she's my wife.

00:50 Also, we are at 826 Palencia. Why is it that we happen to be here? What brings you to 86 Palencia? Tell me a little bit about your relationships with a 260 and what you do, so, I guess e26 the first time I heard of 86 was

01:12 Five or six years ago when you decided that you were first going to start volunteering here.

01:19 I'd actually only peripherally knew about this place because there is a awesome Chris where you're on the outside of the building a huge fan of Chris where when you started volunteering here. I didn't think anything of it volunteering wasn't really my thing wasn't something that I had time for or felt particularly interested in pursuing fast forward a whole bunch of years and at the end of the 2013 that we were in Brussels. I can't keep track of the year. I think it's the end of 2013 December 20th November 2013 until January 2014. So I had yes, I had been freelancing for a while and at that time when we went Brussels I decided that if I was going to do this would be difficult to keep up work my client in San Francisco with a a 9 hour time difference. So I baste.

02:19 Quit all of my jobs and kind of picked up the house husband lifestyle. You're not really giving it a thought to how I would get back into becoming a productive part of the tax base again. So once we go back in February you had just started doing bvhm right before we left for that 3 months 10th. And when you came back you decided that you were going to go back to bvhm and since I didn't have any clients or job and I was still house has been decided that I should probably check this out. Can you put can you explain what deviation is so Buena Vista Horace Mann is the local elementary school in our neighborhood.

03:15 Hi, it's right. It's literally right across the street from where we are now on between 23rd and 24th on Valencia Street.

03:23 So with with some amount of trepidation I decided that I would become a volunteer and jump through all the Hoops that you need to jump through getting your background check getting fingerprinted getting your TB test all that kind of stuff which really was the easiest part of becoming a volunteer what I really didn't realize was how hard it was going to be getting into the volunteering with the third fourth and fifth graders and generally when ice first started I thought it was going to be like a

04:00 If you've ever seen the movie Freedom Writers, it's not like that at all actually ended up being one of the most challenging things at that I've ever done and and remains probably one of the the most challenging things that I continue to do today. Working with these 3rd 4th and 5th graders at fbva time. Is it challenging?

04:30 Well, because unlike the Freedom Writers, who would you know why I thought that with great import. I would come into this volunteer situation and really have this huge impact on their lives and really become a mentor or role model of some kind and in some way and and and really really changed the check the trajectory of of their lives in like a way that I would be able to see kind of almost immediately. I thought that they would be really ready and Earnest and you know wanting this kind of assistance at the fact of the matter is the program is after school. They've already gone through an entire day of school didn't want to be there a lot of them have behavioral problems. They're not getting the right kind of maybe support at home or discipline or whatever. It is. A lot of them are incredibly rambunctious. Where are bringing with them the drama of the day of whatever happens and if you are in 3rd 4th or 5th,

05:30 I mean everything could be the end of the world or the best day of your life or it's just you know, it's a it's a mixed bag and they'll bring in the baggage of the day good or bad, you know when it's good. It's better but that makes them not focused on wanting to be creative writers when it's bad. It's complete shutdown or they're often in tears or they're bringing in a beef from the playground into the class and the two sides of the beef are there and the beef is continuing and there is nothing in there their lives that matter except for that and they're in this room and they don't care that you're there they don't care that they're supposed to be there for creative writing. They don't understand what the trajectory is for their lives in this product have a very often times when you don't

06:30 I see the kind of progress or you feel like you didn't get a productive day out of one of them. It really is a very challenging thing to go away from that experience feeling like you didn't do anything and in a lot of ways in my career.

06:49 And in my clock in my work with my clients, I get a lot of great positive feedback from them in the way that I'm able to help them in my productivity the way I'm able to help push their projects forward and you don't get any of that really you just kind of walk away from a day where the person that you were tutoring the kid that you're tutoring didn't want to do anything and they were mean to you or they were mean to somebody else and it's it's really hard you leave you doing it at the end of your day to so you'd leave with this feeling of I

07:28 I just failed.

07:34 What's up, you know that one out of every

07:40 Like everything else. This is a numbers game and one out of every, you know, 20 or 30 days is going to be a good day where they were engaged and they wanted to be there and they were interested in the topic and they are wildly productive.

08:00 But of course that means you need to go for 30 days to get your one day and if your tutoring once or twice a week, this means that you need to get engage for at least two months to cut a see what when to see one of those days.

08:15 The other thing I guess that aside from that aside from those those days play whatever you want every 30 days or whatever it is that you got that one good day. There is also the fact that they did the kids get to know you and they know your name and there's something very powerful about when they come to into the classroom and they say your name and I know that there's a psychology about hearing your name in The Connection when somebody remembers who you are and that's certainly it's still true for me and pick with these kids when they come in and they're like koshy koshy. Do you know what they want or they want they want to sit with you and they want you to do them regardless of if they're going to be productive or not.

08:58 That type of relationship I think really creates this different sense of accountability for you wear if you don't show up, it's like you let them down. So Derek are these other Dynamics at play as you got a little as you continue to go and you create that kind of continuity for them you feel like you have that responsibility. So you're not a creative writer, but you are creative person. I love you do like the fancy yourself creative writer sometimes sometimes but you are a very talented artist and I love you know, I think to the point about the kids knowing your name, you've managed to do something to connect with them creatively, which is that you draw pictures for them on demand you like the on-demand artist for the classroom. So, can you talk a little bit about how the Genesis of that and then?

09:57 You know kind of what it's like to have kids yelling your name to draw you my little ponies first off. I think that the kids gravitate toward gravitated to my name because it's a funny name them, She is close to coochie in the lot of them called me Khushi or they're familiar with the Mario character Yoshi, which is close to koshy and a billion different variants on my name that I get from these kids some call me coach. It's interesting. So I think there's something about the fanaticism about my up of my name that they initially kind of were drawn towards but getting into the drawing thing drawing thing happen by accident really

10:47 As a person who likes to draw I would I use that as a way to communicate with them to say that you know that in some ways. I was listening to that or I was paying attention to them. And so it started off in the it might have been either the first or second day that I was there. I was working with Alan and he had this amazing story about a man with a magic bag and inside the magic bag was a portal into some other place and he could walk into the bag you could jump into the bag to go into this other portal and I thought that was a fascinating idea that you carry around this magic portal to another dimension in a bag.

11:39 And so I drew a picture of a bag, you know, the baggage I think was at the reference was like a bowling bag in my mind. So drew a bowling ball bag. But with Ray he's coming out with a hand sticking out of this bag and as a way to show Allen that I was synthesizing his story. I made this picture to show him to say. Hey, I'm I'm reading your story and I'm listening and of synthesizing your idea into this illustration and I showed it to him.

12:12 And when he looked at it, it wasn't he didn't have this incredible response to it. You just sort of looked at it like okay, you know yet this is like the magic bag and you know that was kind of it and I remember trying another it was another person at the end of another kid at the table. I drew one of his things. I can't remember what the what it was exactly and then the day was over I didn't think anything of it.

12:40 Fast forward to the next week and I come back and I'm sitting again at the same table and I'm with Alan again and he asks me about the drawing and a Godly the first thing that he wanted to know. What hey, do you do you have to do to have that drawing of the magic bag and I was like, oh, yeah, and he said can I have it and this is where it got interesting anything for me. Where is a psych?

13:06 Sure, I can do it was I drew it on the on a scrap of the activator sheet that we're give in and every time we come in our Ed Farley educator Ashley gives us a sheet of what is happening today in these are the things were going to go over and I usually use that to do a lot of spelling either when they ask me a question of how you how do you spell this word? I usually like to write it down so that they can look at it in my mind meet spelling is very visual things. I like I do that and so typically the back of the sheets are covered with words that they want me to spell and he's like in the very early on these Doodles and it wouldn't want these Doodles of these things that I would draw that were based largely on their stories and they would

13:49 Ask me to tear the sheet apart literally into these little small scratch so they could tear off their little drawing in and take it home.

13:57 And that's kind of like the start of how I got into making these Ryan's because it was really I thought I had found my way into that connection where they were connecting to me and and and responding to something that I was doing not just kind of thing that they didn't want to write or being rambunctious or being mean to each other. They really started to focus on their writing as a result of me drawing these pictures and and that Dynamic I was like, okay. Well, I'd love to do this would love to continue to do this and it became my strategy every time I went so I ended up drawing every single time that I went into the into class was always

14:51 I generally try to keep it.

14:55 Related to whatever it is that they were writing about.

14:59 But sometimes it was a little bit abstract like when they started writing like I think we did a travel brochure for San Francisco. It was like writing drawing a picture of the Golden Gate bridge wasn't interesting to them. So it wasn't like they wanted me to draw that kind of stuff. They wanted me to draw other things like the San Francisco 49ers or there's a lot of pop culture and I think that first pop culture drawing that broke open the the pop culture request was My Little Pony.

15:31 Because I realize that the drawing was also an exchange of Labor.

15:39 In a lot of ways what I was telling them was luck.

15:43 I'm not I'm not here to just tell you what to do. I'll work for you if you're going to work for me. And so as an exchange, I created this early labor exchange of if you do your writing I will make you a drawing of your choice and

16:03 I think it was Gabby who made the first request of a popular culture item, which was Rainbow Dash and Rainbow Dash. What is Rainbow Dash? A lot of time researching Rainbow Dash Rainbow Dash is a character in My Little Pony the new My Little Pony. The old My Little Pony the the current one the repast and so this is where my my phone becomes an indispensable part of my time understanding what these pop culture things are because I generally have no idea, you know, I've been asked to do Catbug, you know, like what is a first to Catbug to me in a cat that was a bug or vice versa or whatever it was and so I drew my own version of it, which was wrong, and this was Jesus making this request for

17:03 And I do what I thought was cat but he's like no no, no don't you know Catbug as if it was obvious. It was this popular culture thing. And as I have no idea what I had to look it up to know what cat Thug was Catbug is part of some other cartoon Universe, which is actually kind of an amazing cartoon possum what the Fairly adult themes for a fourth grader ready? Generally when I we ended up watching a Super Bowl party and we had our friends over and they have like kids that are in between 4 and 8 or something like that and we put them in the other room and we put this cartoon on because we were like our kids just go watch watch Catbug. It'll be great and some of the parents went in and out, you know, if the kids and Melissa said she objected to some of the themes they were not happy with our choice of interesting.

18:03 Watch complete seasons on YouTube. It's really really all that is really awesome. Amazing. It's pretty amazing and other other things that were somewhat obvious Pokemon. I think you understand yourself. I feel like you did not just connected with the kids in the start of Labor negotiation, but I think you really need to go back to your Freedom Writers comparison. Like you are a little bit about Hilary Swank for some of those kids. Like I have seen the way that they transformed. I mean Josue, for example when you started drawing the San Francisco 49ers for that kids like,

19:03 The different kid he sits down and he writes me not every time not consistently, but there's something that you've been able to do, you know, it's through that connection that's really change the way that I think they approach the entire program and I Think Jesus is also an amazing example like you and that kid have a connection. That is awesome. I think it has

19:28 It has something to do with.

19:31 The the point at which I could not keep up with the drawings. There was an another additional Dynamic that ended up happening. So the drawing became wildly popular and when you are tutoring at bvhm on any given day, you may be with you know, anywhere between three to four or five other kids and you're the only tutor and so if you are making this deal with one of them you're making this deal with all of them and if you weren't making one drawing and you're sitting at a table with 5 kids you are making 5 drawings in order to be fair and to get the labor out of them to create this Dynamic what some point I couldn't keep up with creating 5 drawings and the drawings were getting increasingly complex.

20:24 Weather the Pokemon stuff for instance a lot of those the character design of Pokemon weather people appreciate it or not is it is very intricate really very detailed illustrations. And these kids weren't going to be happy with this sort of half half done Pokemon drawing like that wasn't part of the deal. The deal was the one the fully-fledged Pokemon thing that look like Charizard Mega Charizard, you know, it had to look like Mega Charizard like some kind of janky thing and end with My Little Pony was like you forgot the

21:04 You forgot the mark on the but what I don't know what the thing is called the all the My Little Pony characters have this little Mark that's on the but the brand and got to draw the the I kind of can't remember what the thing is. But so as a drawings got increasingly complex, I wasn't able to finish them in the time that I was with with them. And so I would make a guy started making these lists of requests and I would leave the class after seeing third fourth and fifth grade with a list of I don't know 10-15 drawings that I had to do when I went home and at some point it was taking me outside of the class. I don't know two to three hours to catch up on these illustrations of all these random stuff in a lot of My Little Pony a lot of Pokemon lot of these a lot of random pop culture stuff and

22:04 It was getting to this point where every time I would come in they would remember from the last time that I date. I wrote down with the request was there like you owe me this drawing because I gave you that writing for that day and now I'm back and I want my drawing and they use that language you owe me a drawing and it was as a really interesting thing that I gotten myself into now, it wasn't that I was doing this thing for fun or on the side or as a bonus or as like if you did well was a gold star this thing was now like an expectation. This is sorry. Where was it? Was it start to get away from me, but because I would spend that time and they would come in. They said you have my drawing and I would say yes, it was also a moment that created trust because they were like, oh, she said that he was going to make this thing.

23:02 And fast forward a week. He didn't forget he made my drawing and he gave it to me and that should have longer-term thing where it was. Like I said, I was going to make you this thing and I and I gave you my word that they understood that they could trust me and I think that moment of trust created this other sort of a deeper relationship with but they're like, okay. Well Co she's coming up on his end of the deal every single time. He doesn't just sometimes come up on his side of the deal whenever it suits him or whenever he's he says he's going to do it and he does it and I'll even ask them. They're like it sometimes I didn't have time and I said, I'm really sorry. I didn't have time but I would show them that the request was in my in my in my SketchBook.

23:53 And I said to I think it was to Josue. I said was there ever a time where I said I was going to give you a drawing that I didn't give it to you and he looked at me in the eye and they said no and I said, okay, but so I'll give it to you next time. I see you so. I think it is maybe how did the connection got deeper via these drawings wasn't just about making the drawings and giving it to them and they exchange exchange of Labor which ignore the synthesis of their ideas, which is kind of how it started but really earning their trust as a follow-through and in a lot of ways being an example of showing them. Hey, if you're going to commit to something you're committing to it that means you're going to do it you're going to you're going to follow through on it. You're not just going to say yeah. Yeah. Yeah and and just makes this empty promises, but it it feels good when somebody comes through on something for you and so in a lot of ways.

24:53 When I started maybe becoming a role model and some weird sense of this is how you should behave if you if you make a word ending if you make a promise, or if you even say that you're going to do something that you should do it.

25:06 There was that one time that we decided to play good cop bad cop where Gabby didn't have a particularly productive riding day and you withheld her My Little Pony and I think that it that ended in tears that did not end. Well, she was 3 weeks about that sure. She still mad about that since I mean, they remember your name, they don't know my name or married.

25:44 I don't know if they understand. I don't know if they necessarily understand what that means. I think it just means that you have kids or something like that, you know, if your parents or your married people in this way that it doesn't I mean, let's be honest when you're older, it doesn't necessarily makes up all the time either but they're really funny about about that.

26:14 Will the first Selena she's always stares me down and then does this like, you know that like pointing your two fingers that you're you're her eyes and then your eyes watching. Yeah, that's that was hurry act. Like I know your secret, you know, cuz we never really carry on we never carry on in class in any capacity that would tip off to these kids that we were married to each other that we wear wedding rings in might understand that but they don't they don't we never make out any elementary school classroom or any we barely have any sort of like right Danner action where I come from work and exactly it's really interesting. Although Jesus was really cute the other day. He was like because I'm going to marry you.

27:14 Fernando is just like I remember her being like a married guy and there I don't remember half of them. There was like, why did you meet when you get married? Like what would it be like at home? And there's like all these it's an interesting thing to see the way they respond to that the fact that we have some a relationship that's outside of this outside of their worlds outside of that room.

27:49 So as like as a as a creative person yourself and as somebody who draws his own stuff, what is it? I mean how what is it like to draw other people stuff?

28:04 So at some point these popular culture the popular culture business I think is interesting in so much as it really gives me a lens into the world of 3rd 4th and 5th grade pop culture that I would otherwise not have it all which as a popular culture. Junkie. I am fascinated by some of the things that I hear from them new things. But also like the fact that My Little Pony and Pokemon or still wildly popular or very interesting from the pop culture point of view,

28:40 But somewhere along the lines I I didn't want to draw any more of these characters these you know, I got a lot of video game characters a lot of My Little Pony Pokemon, obviously as I said, and I as a

29:01 As a drafts person

29:04 Wait, what does that mean a drafts person or as an illustrator not as a Creator, but as a hand if you will a hand that knows how to move in a skilled way not as an artist or not as a Creator. This is great practice to look and draw and it really is a great way to hone your skill and really kind of give your chops every week this cycle of creating the stuff on demand and a lot of times they want they want to do you want you to drive while you're there because they also enjoy somehow the active watching you produce the thing.

29:47 In a lot of ways because their hands can't move that way when my butt watching my hand do it but fascinated by it and it continued they would always ask. How did you become such a good drawer?

29:59 And and and I and I see you know, the secret is in the intently are like I am about to get the secret to be able to draw like koshy and draw like a Pokemon that I want on demand and I tell them practice. But yeah if you know so that aside.

30:28 It great from the standpoint of practice that that's fine, but it is tiresome because you are drawing that you're doing somebody else's stuff all the time. And I frankly getting tired of drawing My Little Pony a Pokemon this kind of stuff. So I and I was and I wasn't able to keep up with the drawings and it was taking me a lot of time outside the class. So I have to set up some ground rules to reset expectations about the drawings, you know, I think that the yeoman's work of it if you will like what their shrines did for me and the kids. I think you're great. Right and I wanted to reel it back at reel it in a little and so I started to set these rules so part of the rule the new rules were

31:17 Hey, I had to be able to complete the drawing while I was in class just because it was taking so much time outside of class to create these crime which meant that by and large these things were going to have to be things that I had the choice to draw or not really my choice, but it would be things that I knew I could execute within the time allotted and you know, again, we have 45 minutes with each grade level and suck, you know cameras are at around 5 to 10 minute drawing without all the

31:56 Parts of being a real educator and then trying to get them to do their writing or wrangling them or whatever it is. And so I had to finish that to the rule of had to finish while I was there the second rule all-wise. I'm not going to do any copyrighted material because this is going to break their popular culture thing. Is this became the most interesting thing which was when I would say no copyrighted material. They look at me with this blank. Look quizzical blank. Like what is that? Even me and Graeter's and it was it was a challenge trying to figure out how do you literally how do you describe the idea of copyright to a 3rd 4th and 5th grader? I mean let alone describing it to somebody in general like now try and describe it to it this little kid and they just didn't get it.

32:56 You say stuff like it has to not be somebody else's character and they didn't understand that they were like no but the barbarian from Clash of Clans. That's like not my character and it's it's not your character. It's no it's not an anybody character it you know, like why I can't and why can't I have that and it was like because somebody else made it not me and they're like no, but you didn't you didn't make it yet. It is like as if I didn't I didn't make the drawing at and and so again, I'm like I am running up against all of these walls with a copyright of like, I don't know how to describe listening to these games like now, this is not my thing. So finally I gave into the copyright thing again because that's like the stuff that they really wanted and and I realize that the exchange of getting something they really wanted was missing again with these new rules. So I modified the rule couple weeks ago.

33:52 I had to do something that I've been doing on my own outside of of the classroom, which is have been doing popular culture mashups there in the I can't remember the names of the artists, but it's been a popular theme art scene in a lot of ways to take one characters had and put it onto another character's body and it's a lot of it's a lot of fun frankly. So I was doing these outside of the classroom. I did a Daffy Duck on top of a Mickey Mouse body and extremely creepy and weird really weird and that's what I like about its culture, but it's weird and so I'm going to give in to the pop culture. The rules are has to be two things if you want your pop-culture thing sure but has to have one other thing but and it can't be from the same pop culture World. It doesn't even have to be pop culture. So on that day.

34:52 Everybody 10221 Pikachu Pikachu's head on whatever whatever the the thing was Pikachu on top of the barbarian from Clash of Clans, which ended up being an amazing drawing Pikachu Pikachu dolphin which was super weird Pikachu shark, which I I rather enjoyed the last time I was in class. I did a griever which comes from this thing called The Maze Runner which again the popular culture stuff that I have no lens into I'm getting this lens into so I did a Pikachu on top of a top of the griever which ended up being really weird and creepy cuz the griever is like this monster like serious monster with this funny pikachu head on top of it.

35:43 But yeah, that's kind of where the drawings are now is it's this world of mashups and it's these two things that they can pick and then I'll do these drawings which has again been fun for me and it's fun for them and the cycle and the dynamic of the drawing I think is is working again it in the where we needed to work except that I have to spend three or four hours doing illustration work outside of the classroom.

36:19 Volunteering in frying pan

36:23 You know, I think one of the things that the most important lesson I think about

36:30 826 and and being a part of a community. I think I've learned a lot about being part of a community in a different way.

36:40 You know, I've always been very community-minded in so much as you know, I do this bike race every year for the San Francisco Food Bank, you know, I care about Hunger it's something that I think you'll understand when I'm walking down the street. I don't have my face in my phone. I actually look at the people who are walking down the street and if I recognize them which in my neighborhood is kind of awesome your people that actually will recognize you and you recognize whether or not you know their names there is that interaction of hey, I know who you are and there's a waiver a smile or whatever it is.

37:14 You know that that's that's one thing but then there's another level that I had the other day and it was really in a revelation in a in a strange way. I sat down and Ruth was at my table and she's a 5th grader. She's very excited to see me on this particular day. She's never excited to see me though. She saw you and I was like, yeah, okay, and she was like I saw you and your wife coming out of a store and I was like, oh boy. Well, I hope the storm didn't serve drinks whiskey and beer store and you know getting drunk store. I hope it wasn't that and she was like, yeah, why didn't say as much as that, but he didn't say any of that. She was I don't know you guys were both wearing shorts and we

38:14 Every Friday and she talked to me out of the boxing gym. The point here is that we didn't see her but she saw us and I realized at that point that we have a different kind of visibility now in our community of visibility that is different from I walking up and down the street and you know who I am and a different visibility of visible in the path of food bank contributor, but you know what even from like running into your co-workers, but in this real way of their kids now who are out there and in some de facto way we are role models. We are there to not just teach them to be creative writers, but we're teaching them to be good people and whether we like it or not, but they're out there and they see us whether or not we see them and all of a sudden I realized that yeah. I'm a cyclist in town and being a cyclist here means that you have to be

39:14 Very aggressive and sometimes you might use off-color language with other cars and pedestrians hand signals hand signals and all of that. Now I have become very conscious of I don't do it at all now because it's going to be that one day where I'm yelling at a car and then I'm going to go into class next day next day or week and the kid is going to be like Khushi. I saw you you were yelling the f word at my mom. You know that there's no way I can have that now.

39:53 And this is the kind of dynamic that I have. I really appreciate now that I've learned in I really wish this was a more pervasive thing. I think that people really today they value their privacy because they want to do bad things. You know, they just didn't want to behave badly and they don't want people to know who they are and we have a lot of people like whether we like it or not every town has them we have a lot of them in San Francisco. We have a lot of people who drive badly or or oblivious pedestrians or an aggressive or really rude in bars or restaurants and whatever and he's entitled. If you take a photo of them doing it real mad because you're catching them doing a bad thing and they're like, yeah and they're like they feel in their minds the rationalization is you're invading my privacy by

40:52 My photo but inside they know that what they're doing they did a bad thing and they got caught and that's what they don't like about it. And you know now that this Dynamic for me is so real it's just like a great thing in in terms of you know, what I've learned through this process of being a volunteer 826