Shamika Wilson and Jill Henderson

[00:07] JILL HENDERSON: Hi, my name is Jill Henderson. I'm 57 years old. Today is January 21, 2023. I'm in Austin, Texas, and I am recording with my friend Shamika.

[00:23] SHAMIKA WILSON: Hi, my name is Shamika Wilson. I am 4 47. Today is January 21, 2023. I'm recording from Austin, and I am recording with my friend Jill.

[00:35] JILL HENDERSON: All right, thank you, Shamika, for taking time to chat with me. I know this is sometimes a different space for you, but I'm proud of you for honoring my request. So let's just jump in. I guess I just wanted to first kind of hear a little bit about you. So if there were three things you would do, you could do with unlimited resources, like money, time, nothing was an obstacle. What three things would you do?

[01:14] SHAMIKA WILSON: Oh, that's a good question. Three things that I would do, I would definitely travel. I become a traveler more such. Definitely travel to different places. What. Where I would travel, that would be. I'd have to really think about that because there's so many places I want to go. But then I have, like, you know, fears in the back of my head to be like, nah, don't go there. They got this, you know, they got me. And reptiles don't get along. So I would be like, oh, they got lizards. But, you know, a lot of, you know, places have beautiful environment and scenery that I should experience. But sometimes my fears hold me back. But I would definitely travel. Another thing I would do, I would build a church. Like, I would build a church for my current church. That's something that we've been planning for a while, and that's something that my grandmother would have wanted to see come to fruition. She didn't live long enough for that to happen, but she was a part of the process, you know, the beginning process. So I definitely would want that, like, because my church family, especially my pastor, has been very supportive of me, you know, post tragedy, and he's been available. My church family has been very supportive, and he's just been that great shepherd that you need, you know, during. During these times. So to honor that, I would be, you know, build a really nice church. Because when he first came, he had this, you know, he had this vision. And, you know, we're in the process of that vision, but I would help, you know, make that part of that vision come to fruition. A third thing I would do.

[03:10] JILL HENDERSON: No, I was just saying that's really good.

[03:13] SHAMIKA WILSON: Yeah. Third thing I would do. That's a good one. I don't know. I have to really come Back to that one. Like, I would help people that, you know, are part of my circle. The village that is Shamika and the village that was Draylen And in any way that I could help them. Like, so many people have just been really supportive of me even, you know, years down the line. And I would want to get back to Draylen school, his music program. Just people that I've come in contact with that are just, you know, genuine and hard. They have a need that I can't necessarily fulfill myself, but I know that their needs and just help them in any way possible to, you know, pay it forward. Very good.

[04:08] JILL HENDERSON: What trait do you most admire in yourself? And then what trait do you most wish you could change?

[04:18] SHAMIKA WILSON: So I think the one I wish I can change is easy. I overthink. No, I'm always in my head. I don't necessarily overthink, but I'm always in my head. And unfortunately, you know, post tragedy I am. I've become pessimistic in nature and I call it reality. And I really want to change that about myself because my younger self, you know, the older, the old Shamika, the younger Shamika was, she was very optimistic and she was very free spirited. And so I would want to go back to that person and what the trait that I admire about myself is my tenacity to just continue to move forward. My strength, the strength that I didn't even think I had. That's what I admire about myself.

[05:17] JILL HENDERSON: Good one. How has your life been different than what you imagined it to be?

[05:28] SHAMIKA WILSON: How's my life been different? For one, my life has become a. Not a pub. I want to call it a public spectacle, but it's become public exposure. My life has been exposed publicly, whereas I like to live in my little bubble in my own little, you know, fortress. Well, that fortress has been penetrated. Or like a snow globe. I've been in the snow globe and the snow globe has been broken. So. And like I said, where I used to be this happy, go, lucky person, I've kind of become this, you know, pessimistic, like, oh, this is reality. I think of kind of like a. I work in the risk department. So like now you're all constantly mitigating risk. So now it's like, don't do that. You know, I used to be a free spirit. That free spiritness is kind of dissipated, which I don't like. And very. I feel like the empath sometimes. Like I'm very in tune to people's pain and so much so that I have to like become numb to it. Because if I, if I act on the, you know, the emotions that I feel, you know, it'll be overwhelming.

[07:09] JILL HENDERSON: I definitely understand that. Definitely. So you've kind of mentioned Draylyn a little bit. So tell us your relationship to Draylen Mason and then tell us a little about him.

[07:25] SHAMIKA WILSON: So Draylen Mason was my son at the time of his death. He was 17. He was a high school senior preparing for college. He is a renaissance man. He was a classical musician. He played the double bass, the upright bass, he played the blaz guitar. He was teaching himself how to play the piano. And he was also, you know, learning to play the cello. So he liked to play multiple instruments. And then he was also a martial artist. So at the time of his death, he was a third degree black belt in kajikimbo. And he was also a black belt, a black sash and kung fu. So Draylen was just, you know, he was an all around guy, loved people. I don't think that too many people can say that he was, you know, ever mean. He just, you know, was always kind and free spirited. He and I had a very close relationship. Like he was almost like my dad sometimes because he thought he was the parent. But you know, that was just his nature. Like he felt like he needed to tell me what to do. Like he needed to tell his teachers what to do. So, you know, he's one of those people. But we're very close. He didn't care. He just wanted to be on the go. He liked to travel. Just a really good kid.

[09:04] JILL HENDERSON: Okay, what's your best memory of him?

[09:09] SHAMIKA WILSON: Oh, best memory. Let's see. That's a good one. My best memory of him is when I come home from work and I'm tired. Draylen would be in my bed and I would be so frustrated because he would have crumbs in my bed. Like, I hate that. I hate sleeping when you find crumbs in your bed. But you know, I would fuss any parent, like, get out of my bed, blah, blah, blah. But then he would get up and move and then let me sit down. But then it didn't matter how old he was, he would come and like lay on me and he just wanted that affection. Draylen was very affectionate. And what's crazy is like, I'm not. He's very touchy feely. He wants to hug. He wanted, you know, I was not that person. So he made me become that person. But I missed though, you know, running up on me and hugging me and I'd be like, oh, Dray then get off of me. And he was like, it doesn't matter how I talk to him. It was, you know, I want to hug. You know, he wanted that closeness. He was touch is, you know, he's very much a touch. He needs to make a physical connection type person. So I miss those. That's like good memories of just. I'm either not doing anything and I'm laying down, here he comes. And he just wants to be a kid and, you know, just lay on his mother and I'm. You know, those are good memories. And I miss those memories as well, because, you know, I would fuss all the time, like, oh, I'm tired. Get off of me. But at the same time, you enjoy that because, you know, that lets you know your baby still needs you. And so those are good. You know, those are good memories. And then just him being a kid, like, everybody in the now that, you know, everybody knows of his story, they see this, you know, great musician or, you know, they see this mature person, but really, when he was home with me, he was a kid, his room was dirty, there were socks in his bed. I'd have to fuss about taking out the trash, you know, so that. That human side of him, that kid side, that really, he was a kid, you know, he may have been an accomplished musician or an accomplished, you know, martial artist, but at the end of the day, he was my kid. And so I have those. This is my kid memory. He's. I'm the parent, he's the child. And we have those good, you know, memories like that, you know.

[11:40] JILL HENDERSON: Yeah, that's good. That's good. And that's good to remember, because the world does always have a different image than the way we remember them or what, really. Reality too, right?

[11:53] SHAMIKA WILSON: Definitely.

[11:54] JILL HENDERSON: Yeah. So what has been the hardest thing about losing Draylen

[12:00] SHAMIKA WILSON: Ooh. The hardest thing is just trying to make it every day. Like, to know that a human being that you gave birth to is no longer here. Like, the. The method in which he left, like, you know, it's hard to lose. It's just unnatural for a child to leave before their parent. But when they leave it, you know, a younger age, it's just gut wrenching. Like there's nothing in the world that can prepare for you. I don't care how many books are written, there is no book that's going to tell you how you're going to feel at any given moment. At that moment, an hour later, a day later, a week later, a month later, a year later, five years later, like, there's nothing that can tell you how you're going to feel. Like it can kind of help you navigate. But that. That feeling, to know that something is missing, that is like the worst. Like, there's, like, a permanent hole in your chest. Very true. Like a space. Yeah, like a space. And for all that, you know, I have to share the world with him, and I don't want to sometimes. Like, I want. I want our little snow globe. And unfortunately, the snow globe is broken. And so it can. It can make you bitter sometimes and not purpose. Not purposely. You know, I went through a period where I was, you know, very much trying to think of a non. A non expletive to, you know, to say how I was. How I was being. But, you know, it was. It was. It just come out like that. Because that's a phase of grief. You know, you go through the highs, the lows. You're in the mountains, you're in the valley. And sometimes when you at that low, your personality is not the best. But I will say that I have a good. I have a good sister circle that, like, hey, we're gonna let you be. But we're not gonna let you be long. We're gonna give you a minute, but then, hey, I'm pulling you out.

[14:33] JILL HENDERSON: Yeah, that's awesome, because you need that community.

[14:37] SHAMIKA WILSON: Yes.

[14:42] JILL HENDERSON: So you mentioned that Draylen was murdered. There are different. There's so many different things that happen to our men, our young boys and men, but there's gun violence. My son was brutally beaten to death by a mob. Do you want to tell us just a little bit about what happened to Draylen Not like details, but high level.

[15:09] SHAMIKA WILSON: Yes. So 2000, in March 2018, Austin experienced a series of package bombings that a psychopath was going and putting on people's door. We were the second victims to that. That bombing, it was left on our front door, and we brought it into our home because I was thinking, you know, Draylen was supposed to be grad. He was graduating that year. So it was spring break during that time. So of course, I had been ordering stuff for his graduation party. So the device. I brought. I brought the device in, and it detonated. And, you know, from there, devastation occurred. So that's what happened to him.

[16:00] JILL HENDERSON: Yeah. Yeah.

[16:02] SHAMIKA WILSON: And he succumbed to his injuries.

[16:05] JILL HENDERSON: Yes. Very unfortunate for such a talented, gifted, loved young man to go in such a tragic way. But I say that to say I wanted to highlight that only because his is such a unique circumstance and my son's is Such a unique circumstance. But they are on this platform, like you said, where people know about the story. And so I just want to make sure that people don't forget that violence occurs more than just with a gun. There's so many things that happen that don't get recognized. Well, I won't say recognized. I don't know if you want it to be recognized, but anyway, they're just.

[16:50] SHAMIKA WILSON: I know what you're saying.

[16:51] JILL HENDERSON: Ways that violence.

[16:53] SHAMIKA WILSON: I get what you're saying because during that time and you know, my family tried to shield me from news, but there was the great debate on what is considered terrorism. Because if it was a, you know, and like, and I don't want to target any kind of community, but you know, if it was a radical religious group that, you know, had have done it, it would have been considered, you know, domestic terrorism. There is a, there is a definition of what the government considers domestic terrorism. And you know, a long psychopath that is putting bombs on people's doorstep is not necessarily considered terrorism, but it should be because this person, you know, with, you know, went in with malicious intent to harm somebody that they didn't even know. So that is, that's, that's terrorism by definition to me. But you know, the government has their own definition. And yes, it's very unique that when you think of statistics of how you, you know, black boys die, that's not one of them.

[17:59] JILL HENDERSON: No, it's definitely not. Yeah, that's, that's similar to our case too, is that, you know, as a hate crime to us. But they keep saying that technically they can't prove that it's a hate crime. And I'm like, well, I don't know how much other evidence you need to make it a hate crime. But yeah, it's almost like they put these laws on the books but then they don't really make them enforceable is how it feels.

[18:25] SHAMIKA WILSON: Or I think the laws are old and they don't go back to reevaluate them.

[18:29] JILL HENDERSON: Exactly. Very good point, Very good point. Tell us about some of the biggest obstacles that you had to overcome in life other than your tragedy. Because I know that's one you're still.

[18:48] SHAMIKA WILSON: Living through some obstacles. Some of my obstacles are self inflicted. I can't say that I've suffered. This is the biggest one by far that would outweigh any other obstacle that I can really imagine because unfortunately I see the world, you know, like, like Christ, BC, before Christ and you know, after. But I see, you know, before trailing and after his death, you know, it's kind of the same thing. And I'm not liking him to Jesus by any means. But no, that's kind of how it is. It's the Old Testament in the New Testament and I can't even remember the Old Testament for the New Testament because it's such a huge impact on your life that there are things that you suffer post traumatically that you just don't even remember. Like, that's, that's another obstacle. I can't. A question is, you know, suffering post traumatic stress. I have. I have memory loss. Sometimes. Things that I know simply like words, my job, like, I can regurgitate my job easily. But sometimes there are words that I'm just like simple words like conversation. Like, I'm like, oh, what is that word? You know, when two people talk and it's like, oh, you're having a conversation. Yeah, like, I know conversation. But sometimes my mind would just be so blank and I don't even remember it. But like I said, you know, prior to. Some of the obstacles would be just, I think, like I said, self inflicted. Like, I didn't obtain my degree till I was like, I can't remember how old I was in 2010, but I didn't obtain my degree till I was 2010. Just because I can't focus for too long sometimes and I just get sidetracked easily. And so, you know, but once I finally make up my mind to do something, I get determined and that's what I did and I finished it. But that to me was an obstacle because that was me in my own way and just not focusing like I needed to. I didn't go the traditional route. I'm not traditional in a lot of senses on a lot of things. So that would be an obstacle and just navigating being, being a single parent. And I'm not. I was a single parent, but I had a great support system. So I can't say that, oh, the struggle was so, so hard. But you know, sometimes it is a struggle because, you know, there's not two parents. And that's not to no fault of either one of us, you know, me or his dad, but it was a collective fault. But when you are trying to make sure that your kids have the best, you know, my mom, she made sure that I was exposed to a lot of things and I wanted Draylen to be exposed to the same things and put him in the right places. And, you know, that comes at a cost. It comes at a cost financially, it comes at a cost physically and mentally. Because you're exhausted, you're trying to work, you're trying to go here and there. And, you know, Draylen was the type of kid that he. If he sees something and he likes it, he's going to research it and he's going to try to get there. Like, you know, band camps and just different groups. And that's what he did. Like, that's what made him successful. His tenacity, his inquisitiveness, his resourcefulness. But that came at a cost to me, you know, trying to make sure that he got to these things. But I. You know, I. Like I said, I didn't do it alone. I had a great support system. But, you know, it's still, you know, an obstacle at times. But my most. My obstacles are, you know, pre. I mean, post his death and because I was injured as well. You know, most people know about him. They don't know, you know, what I suffered. Everybody speculates, and I just don't ever talk about myself. But, you know, there were physical obstacles that I had to overcome at the same time of grieving his death and trying to get back to my, you know, trying to get back physically that, you know, those were two difficult components, you know, the physical and the mental. And then once I got myself together physically, for the most part, it's that. That mental obstacle of just trying to navigate tragedy and trauma and. And. And death and put your life back together, and then trying to honor, you know, and trying to honor that person at the same time.

[23:42] JILL HENDERSON: Yeah. Speaking of physical and mental, what did you do that Draylen also did that kind of brought you together? There's this big thing that you did that was a physical and a mental thing.

[24:01] SHAMIKA WILSON: Recently, I obtained my black belt in kickboxing. So that was a big thing. And I obtained it through his karate professor. So Draylen went to Fire Dragon martial arts, like, when he was six years old. And, you know, they're part of my family, too. And he was there, you know, for years. And then I would, you know, do kickboxing as well sometimes. And then I would do it, and then I would stop. And then Draylen started, you know, getting into music, and we kind of went away from the martial arts, but they've always been a part of our family. But like I said, Maurice Lee did not, as part of, you know, helping me heal. I got back into it more seriously. And so I was able to obtain my blood, my black belt in kickboxing.

[24:59] JILL HENDERSON: Congratulations. That is the highest.

[25:03] SHAMIKA WILSON: Thank you. And he would be so he would be happy. Yes.

[25:07] JILL HENDERSON: Yeah.

[25:08] SHAMIKA WILSON: Yeah.

[25:09] JILL HENDERSON: So what else has helped you in your grief process?

[25:16] SHAMIKA WILSON: So what would help me in my grief processes? I talk about it all the time. I talk. You may hear me talk about my sister circle, my, you know, circle of friends. I tell anybody, you know, you know, you. And you can probably relate to this. You know, when people. When someone dies tragically, like how. How we met, you know, you wanted to reach out to me to help me navigate, and that's what. The same. I call it being a grief whisperer. I tell anybody that you need support. Like support is the key to getting through this because there are days where you're just not going to be able to. You just. You just can't. There are days that you just can't function. But to have a support system is key. I went to grief sharing class. I went to grief sharing following. Not immediately because I couldn't do it, but I think some months later, I end up going to grief sharing. And there was a lady there who, son, he took his own life, but he struggled with addiction. But she talked about how the people who were supposed to be her friends, they were not there for her. And the whale that she had, recalling how no one was there for her outside of her immediate, you know, family like her husband and her daughter. It was so gut wrenching. I'll never forget it. And I felt bad because I told my friend it was my birthday, and I was like, hey, will y'all go with me, you know, to support me as I go, you know, go to this grief sharing class? And I showed up with like six people, and here she is crying, you know, this gut wrenching. Well, about how no one was there for her. People who she thought was her friend, how they, you know, abandoned her. And I looked at my best friend and I was like, oh, my God, I don't know what that feels like, but I can't imagine not having my support system, not having my. My friend, my family, not having my friends, not having the support of, you know, all these. These individuals that have helped, like Drayland's karate school, his. His. His school, his music program, my job. Like, all these people surrounded me, and that means so much. Like, that's overwhelming. Like, that's. That's, to me, was like an example of God's love. And I had that and she didn't. And I felt so bad for her. And I. Me and my friend and my best friend, we was like, I don't know what they look like, but that has been a major Major part of helping me through this process. And I really. And really before that, I need to say my faith in Go. My faith has definitely kept me. That is really the number one. That's. That's the spiritual, Let me say that's the spiritual that has kept me as my faith. Even when I questioned God, even when I was mad at God, I still was able. I know that he kept me and he showed his love by all these people. And that like, his love is so overwhelming. And I know it is because he put all these people like people I didn't even know that Draylen had come in contact with was like, hey, you know, we're here, you, whatever. I don't know how we can help you, but we can do it. Like even five years later. I think we're coming up on the fifth year of his anniversary of his death. And I'm still, you know, getting that support, which is important, you know, that's important. You know, like the people don't forget, get you. Like, it was like a one time thing. I always say that I, I'm glad that Drayland's story didn't die when he died, the day that he died, that his story didn't end. And it's because there are people that are around me that are supporting me, that are supporting his legacy. And you know, those are major things that you need. So you definitely need. Well, for me, my faith, my, My support system. And then I go to therapy. I've been going for three or four years now. I'm. Look, I've graduated where I'm not going every week. I think I made every three weeks to four weeks. But I, I'm def. Definitely therapy is helping me. Definitely. Grief is work. You gotta do the work. And it's hard work. It's ugly work. It's like gut wrenching work. Sometimes it's so ugly, like you don't even want to look at it work. But I always say, now I'm at a point where I gotta. I can say I have to meet grief as a friend. Because if you don't, grief will whoop you. It'll take you to some dark places. But if you meet it as a friend, when you tell it to get out, it'll go. Now it may. It's that friend to come back. Sometimes when you don't want to come back, like, I didn't ask you to come back. Yeah, you're like, okay, come on, come on in. Let's get this over with. It's so. That's how I look at it now, but, yeah, therapy and doing the work, because it not only helps you with the grief, it just. You discover things about yourself, and that helps you with, you know, with your healing process. And there. And then, I'm also. I'm not ashamed to say there was a period of time where I needed medication, because it was a lot. That was a lot to bear. You know, that's a lot to bear. Like, that's all I got to say about. That's a lot. And I don't care how strong you think you are, like, you know, losing your kid, and Draymond was my only kid, so. Losing your only kid at the prime of his life, where he was about to take off and do great things, that. That sucker punched me. And then the method in which he left and was taken, that's added to the sucker punch. And that. That was my only baby, that triple sucker punch me. And now that I. I have to rebuild without him, rebuild my home, rebuild myself. That's another gut push. I'm like, I'm. You know, I was beat down, and it became overwhelming sometimes. And, you know, I would have these anxiety, you know, attacks out of nowhere, especially in the beginning. Like, I never thought. I'm. I've always been a strong individual, even prior to Dr. But this, you know, this tested my gangster, definitely. It did in the worst way. Like, it. It drugged me. Like, it drugged me. And I. There. There were times I just felt like, I can't. I don't. I don't know how to deal with this. And it was just too much. And I was out of my home, you know, debating on whether I wanted to go back to my home. But I, you know, made a choice to go back to my home. And then that was a lot like going back to the place where everything was. And there would be times that I walk across the floor where, you know, he laid, and it'll hit you sometimes, and, like, you just can't deal. And so I needed, you know, medication for that to just stabilize my mind, because I was like, do you want me to function? I. You know, and I know that when things happen, sometimes people will gravitate towards, you know, there's something. Drugs, alcohol.

[33:19] JILL HENDERSON: Overeating.

[33:21] SHAMIKA WILSON: Yeah, overeating. Mom was shopping. Shop like no other. I would just be shopping, and it would be crazy. So shopping, you know. Yeah. So you. There were habits that could be picked up, so I needed something to just take off that edge because it was too much. It's. That was too much to bear.

[33:47] JILL HENDERSON: So we have just a few minutes left, but let me just ask a couple other quick questions. How do you think Draylyn would want to be remembered? And how do you want to be remembered?

[34:02] SHAMIKA WILSON: Draylen will want to be remembered as just a, you know. Oh, Draylen would want to be remembered as famous. Draylen has always said that he was going to be famous. And he told his godmother he was going to leave a legacy. Watch. And she would be like, draylen, shut up. You don't even know how to spell legacy. He was. It was the year before he died that he told her that I didn't even know it. And I found a book in his. In his stuff, like a notebook that he would, like, write his notes in his music and stuff. And, you know, he had a list of things that he wanted to accomplish, and some of it he accomplished, but some of it he's like, you know, when I be famous, this is what I'm going to do. So he would want to be, you know, he would want to be known for being that all around good kid, that great musician, you know, that all around renaissance man. Like he liked to be. He wanted to be talked about and he got it, you know, unfortunately, he got it in death, but he got it. And he, you know, he. A legacy is being established. And so I think, you know, he would definitely love it. He likes to be the center of attention, and that's who he is. That's what he is. And for me, I just want to be known for being Drayland's biggest fan and supporter. And that's what I did, and that's what I'm still doing. You know, I'm in awe of some of the things that he accomplished. A lot of times Draylen would say stuff, you know, your kids, he would always tell me things, and I'll just be like, oh, really? That's great. And I'll be like, he lying or he's over exaggerating. But in reality, it come to find out, like those, you know, he met these people that he was talking about. He did these things that he was, you know, did like I do know sometimes, you know, he did exaggerate to an extent, but I know my kid, but at the same time, a lot of the things that he did, he did. And you know, in the beginning I felt like, oh, people were just saying stuff because he's, you know, deceased. But no, these. These were. He accomplished great things. You know, he amassed a lot at a young age. So he want to Be known for that. And he was. He's definitely smiling.

[36:40] JILL HENDERSON: Oh, yeah, that's good. And he will be famous. He is famous already, but he will be more famous because he has a great legacy. So tell us briefly, I have two other questions. One is how you celebrate his life. And then the other one is, what would you tell another mother that's on this journey that we're on?

[37:01] SHAMIKA WILSON: So how I celebrate his life. So we definitely celebrate, like, on the day this death, me and my, you know, I make it intimate. It's not a. You know, it's personal for me. The day is dead. Me and his, you know, my family and friends, we celebrate. We recently. And then we celebrate his birthday. Like, we go between his family and the Mason family. Like we started prior to the pandemic. You know, I'll do one year, their family would do another year. Like, how we would celebrate. We recently celebrated his birthday in the music studio that is named after him in his fashion. You know, got dressed up, celebrated his birthday. But we also celebrated the cohort of the Draylen Mason Fellows program, their capstone performance. So that was a really great thing for me. I felt real good, and I felt like he would be proud that we're celebrating in his fashion. Like, everything we did, you know, he was over the top, and that's what he wanted to be known for, and that's how we did it. And so that was a bit. That was very pleasing to me, like. But, you know, like, you do the same thing you have, you know, with your son and hit with your foundation and how you honor him. And so I want. That's something that I endeavor to do, to have a foundation. I'm not in a rush, but I'm in the thinking phases of it right now. So that's how I want to, you know, continue to honor and lift him up. As far as any advice I would have for a mother going through this, I would definitely tell her to find someone that has, you know, connect with another mother who is going through the same thing. You definitely need support. You cannot make it without support. If you are a person of faith, continue to believe. Even though circumstance, you know, we cannot go by what we see, but we know based on our faith what God is capable of. So continue to steadfast in your faith. And then, you know, don't give up. You know, days are going to be hard. They're going to be good days, and they're going to be bad days, but that's okay. That's natural. I think what I find with other people that I come in contact with is they feel like they're going crazy because it's something they never experienced. And everybody's experience is different. So you can't compare your experience from one person to another. But those good days are good, and embrace them. And then when they're bad and they go back, you have good days, and all of a sudden they're bad. That's normal. That's. That's that grief cycle that you just. You can't prepare for. Know that it's coming, but you can't prepare for it. And then just take it. Take it step by step, moment by moment, minute by minute. Sometimes that's all you can do.

[39:58] JILL HENDERSON: All right, well, thank you so much, and I appreciate your time and your honesty, your transparency, and just love you always.

[40:11] SHAMIKA WILSON: And thank you. Thank you for being not. I don't want to call it like a mentor, but you have been an example for me because I remember when we first. When you first reached out, I was like, I don't want to talk to nobody. But you need that. You know what I'm saying? Like, you need that person, and sometimes you have to be ready for that part. You have to be ready for it. That's the thing. You gotta be ready. Like, anytime somebody asked me to speak to someone, I'd be like, are they ready to talk? Because, like, you gotta be ready. You can't force feed any of this.

[40:44] JILL HENDERSON: That's true. Yep. All right. Thank you.

[40:49] SHAMIKA WILSON: Thank you.