Shirkydra Roberts interviewed by Cheryle Gail

00:03 All right, well, we're going again. And this is part two. I'm Cheryle Gale.

00:08 And I'm Shirkydra Roberts.

00:12 Yep. I'm 59 years old. Why they care about our age, I'm not quite sure, but they do. I'm 33, and I am in Murphy's, California.

00:23 Okay. I'm in Suffolk, Virginia.

00:26 Suffolk, Virginia. Great. And in starting off where we left off, tell us. So it wasn't Abraham. It was lot.

00:36 Yeah, it was lot. So, Abraham's lineage. Lot had daughters, and they were scared that their lineage wasn't going like that. All the good men were going, so they was like, you know what? We're gonna get our dad drunk and have sex with him that we can get with child. So that was in Genesis. That was at the beginning of time. And to me, that. That's where. That's sexual abuse. That's not even, you know, that's not normal. And so I remember reading that story when I was studying the Bible, and then I just started combing through, like, lineage and who. How was marriage? And you see people with, like, you know, the 700 wives and 300 concubines, like, everything that was abnormal to what we have today. And I started looking at kind of my story, not just in a deeper view, but where, you know, sid entered the world, and now you have people just doing whatever they want, you know? And even then, when you hear the common stories where God wiped everybody out. Cause he's like, this is not how I created you guys to be, but yet here we are. And then he was like, but I'll never do that again. So those things were still sin and evil and darkness, and that didn't go anywhere. And so that's where it was like, you know what? These things were happening long ago, and they were looked at as normal. Nobody was there to address them, talk about them, nothing. Then in my culture, we're talking about slavery and how, you know, slave and slave masters and people having sex, people, like, it was normal or looked at as normal. And it's just like, we've normalized this to where now we're in a space where we're like, no, we're tired of normal. It's not normal no more. It's a crime. It's against the law. And so it was, you know, it took me to kind of step out of my own story and be like, well, where did it start? Yeah, you know, what did it really originate from? Based on my views. You know, everybody's not follower, and it's not for me to influence or alter anybody else's views. But for me, it was, let me study it all the way back. We talked about good and evil. Where do we start?

02:55 Yeah.

02:56 And then I went from there.

02:57 Yeah, great. And, yeah, what brave voices is trying to do now, and I know that you are as well, is normalizing the conversation of childhood sexual abuse prevention. Right. This is what we want to become normalized. And so that our children are raised hearing this discussed and knowing that this happens in the world a whole lot more often than earthquakes or fires. Right. Yeah. So part of where we left off from the last, the first part one was your mother. You told your mother and then you went forth to do your work. But I wanted to go back just a little bit as far as just to understand in my own mind was, did you get relief from the cutting, through the healing, from your relationship with Goddesse?

03:58 No, I didn't. When I was cutting, I was a teenager, you know, I was in high school, so it was kind of like a thing. And then one of my teammates grabbed my arm and saw it. So then it was a big deal. My coaches, the school people got involved, and that scared me. So I went, oh, I'm not doing it no more. And that stopped that. My coach, I always go home and see her, but they kind of hopped in and nurtured me right away. They didn't really know. I didn't tell them what was going on. I just dealt with what they saw, you know, the cuts and the marks. I was in track and basketball and volleyball. So my coaches, my teachers, I always go to the schools and kind of shed light on your coaches and your teachers are kind of parents when you're away from home and you can really find a safe space in them. And I did. My coaches kind of helped save my life, really.

04:54 But you didn't tell any of your coaches or teachers or mother at that time in your life? Okay.

05:03 Yeah, no, I didn't tell. I still, I was just like, you know, just dealing with some stuff and, yeah, they kind of just want to know why you did it. They didn't go into, you know, especially around that time, you wasn't pushing. You wasn't going to be pushing. They just wanted to make sure I wouldn't do it again, and I was okay. And they didn't want me to feel guilt, shame. They just talked and didn't, like, let me be okay.

05:25 Okay. And when you told your mother, did she ever say anything like, gosh, you know, I was wondering what was happening or I worried about that or no.

05:41 Because in the black community, that's not a thing. Suicide, those things are, like, frowned upon in the black culture. Like, hey, no, that's not a thing. We're taught, you know, a lot of the black communities is built on religious practice. You're taught adversity, and God will bring you through. So you're instilled with those kind of concepts early. Like, we don't break, we don't bend, we don't fold, survive.

06:12 And. And when sharing with her about being harmed sexually, she also had no idea. That was a shock to her.

06:20 Yeah, it was a shock to her.

06:22 Mm hmm.

06:23 Yeah, it was a shock to her just because, like I said, it was, you know, nobody looks like an abuser. Nobody gives off the sign. They hidden in plain sight. Most of the time, you just. When you're thinking like this, never. You know, it's almost. We have it in the military when people get in trouble, like, you have that mentality, like, this won't happen to me. It won't be my kid. It won't be me. And so you're not. You're not looking for it. And if you're not looking for or taught the signs, the symptoms, educate a lot of our parents, it wasn't educated on what abuse looked like. So a lot of my healing came with, let's step out and take it. Understand, and bless you. What times were my parents saying? My grandparents were, it was okay. It wasn't giving them an excuse, but it kind of helped me be realistic. Like, was. Was it a conversation I had back then? Were they trained? Because they go online and look for symptoms and treatment. We have that now.

07:29 Yeah. Yeah.

07:30 But they didn't have that. So it kind of helped me understand, like, what type of generation did they grow up in? Yeah. Especially with my family. Everybody was just trying to survive.

07:43 And so what were some of the observable that, in retrospect, you were exhibiting that we now would know was because.

08:01 Of the harm, the need for attention. Ah, the need for attention and acceptance. Yeah. I want it to be everybody's friend. I want to make everybody happy. Class clown. Like, I was that person that just needed to feel connected.

08:26 Can you give more? So you were a class clown. You were wanted to be everybody's friend, you know? Cause that just sounds like a healthy, lovely little girl, right?

08:39 No, because I think that a lot of when you look at what is normal for kids, like, being liked by everybody is not common because somebody's not gonna like you. Like, there's no one sided personality. Like, you know, Jesus had people that just, they didn't like him. You know, everybody's gonna have. But for me, it was changing to be who people wanted me to be.

09:07 Ah, see, I didn't have my identity.

09:09 I didn't know who I was with the. With the abuse, like, being what and who I needed to be in the moment of whoever I was around.

09:17 Uh huh. So you morphed and changed who you were to fit in with and be liked by everyone.

09:30 Yeah.

09:32 Hmm. So your need for attention and acceptance was there. I remember earlier in part one, you were saying that you wanted reassurance and comfort. Was that from food? Was that from what are some different ways that we would see or know that you were.

10:02 You wouldn't have saw that that came in because I didn't have it. I did it for everybody else. So I was. I cared for people. I nurtured people. I wanted to save people from their problems, issues. I wanted to be there. Like, I over. You know, even in adulthood, I overexerted myself so that people wouldn't feel what I felt. So it wasn't really you would see it. You would just be like, she has a giving heart or she has a big heart or she loves people. It came out in that way so it didn't look abnormal.

10:39 Hmm. This is so interesting because I see myself so much in what you're sharing. Yeah. So what if you weren't really liked by somebody when you were seeking attention and acceptance, was it super hard on you? Did you get crushed? Did you feel your feelings? Did you cry?

11:05 No, I removed myself. I was very big. Like, if you rejected me, I wasn't going to force myself on you because, remember, somebody was forcing themselves on me. So it's like, if you didn't like me, you didn't want me around, I didn't pressure you. I wasn't going to overdo myself. I wasn't going. Once you set a boundary, I wasn't crossing it, so I put myself out there. And then if I saw, like, oh, this person, don't rock with me or don't like me or I don't like them, I'm just, I don't need to talk about them. I don't need to, you know, argue with them. It was just like, it's just an understanding.

11:39 Okay. Hmm. And what's the next step? Would you say talking about forgiveness or is there anything before we jump or go into how your process of. Anything more about your healing process that you want to share?

12:00 No, I think the big thing was, you know, you find what works for you. Because everybody has inputs on what they did, therapy, counseling, medication, everything. You gotta find kind of how you want to heal. I think before you pick a path, it's like, what? You know, we all know why we want to heal, but how is it mental? Is it spiritual? Is it cognitive? What is it? Do I just want somebody to sit and let me get it all out? Do I want a response like, and then once you figure out the how, go, go to the right specialist, because you can't go to a licensed counselor expecting them to tell you how your brain is operating. If your triggers and self taught beliefs in brain functions and how trauma affects the brain, licensed counselors don't go through that. You need to go see a psychiatrist. Psychiatrist. So once you realize how you want to heal, now go to the specialist so that you're not that person. Like, oh, I tried therapy and it didn't work. Well, what type of therapy did you mind focus, cognitive behavior therapy, person centered goals center. What type of therapy did you try? So sometimes I find the results of ineffective therapy or counseling is because what the person needed, they couldn't. They were not the expertise in that.

13:27 And can you share what your path was, mom?

13:30 Was cognitive behavior therapy, learning, relearning beliefs and values and things that I kind of put in my head when I was little and saying, hey, you don't have to think that way anymore. Or is that a valid belief? You know, so it's, it helped me work backwards.

13:51 Can you give three examples of what were some exercises or practices within that cognitive therapy for those who don't aren't familiar with it?

14:02 One of them you have to write down, I have this in my, I put a lot of exercises in my book that I did. The biggest one was writing down, you know, your fears or your triggers and then saying, okay, what's the thought behind? Like, for me, it was like, well, I feel like I'm always going to be attacked, you know, at nighttime. I fear, like, I can't go to sleep because it's nighttime. Why? Because I don't feel like I'm safe at night. Why don't you feel? Because I'm going to be attacked. Have you been attacked? So it was going back saying, you know, validating or not validating or, you know, I, you know, when it comes to relationships, I don't believe that I'm normal. You know, they're not successful because I don't believe that I'm normal because of how I view intimacy. And then peeling that back, you know, saying, where did that come from? Okay, is this still valid? No, it's not, because that's not happening to me anymore. What would I want that to look like? And reframing my own picture of it. So a lot of reframing and resetting those belief systems saying, you know, like, if we go to the whole people pleasing. I am how people feel about me. No. Are you? No, you're not. You get to bring who you are to the table and people get to accept it or not. And if they don't, that does not mean you're not loved. It does not mean you need to put more people around you that accept you versus getting around people. You feel like you have to show why they should accept you. But sometimes it's just reframing your circle. So a lot of that was my process.

15:51 Okay, tell us again, because we're in part two. Now, the name of this book.

15:56 This book is called Dear Brain. You have my attention going beyond the hill hard. And I kind of tie in theology and psychology into a space because a lot of. A lot of people think there it's one or the other. But I bring spiritual and cognitive healing into one place and kind of take people through my journey, my sessions, how I felt when I got from it, why I believe that you gotta, you know, heal wholly in the heart and then go through the brain, work the mental work, because a lot of people don't know that. Hey, you gotta work backwards to change your set of belief for something, something you've been believing your whole life. That's no longer valid and you never invalidated it. You never stopped telling yourself that or thinking that.

16:45 Can you share three examples of who you are now? Having done all the work.

16:56 Who I am now, I'm very forthcoming, as in, I say what I want and what I don't want. Not just saying yes, because I feel like I owe it to someone. Spiritual first versus people first, spiritual being first, and then much more understanding of human behavior, saying, this person did this, but why? Like, I know the story behind my abusers. They were abused. I understand their behavior. Does it give them an excuse or remove the responsibility? No, it doesn't. You still got to take ownership and account for that. But I do understand how you got there. You know, just a history. You know, I go through genealogy, you know, just genetics and genealogy and history of, you know, alpha women or abusers and bad marriages. When you start going beyond your abuser and you start seeing what environments they were in, their parents, how were they parented, and you just start looking at things. We use things like genograms to map out family history of good and bad, but a lot of the bad, a lot of the alcohol, you know, substance abuse and verbal and psychological abuse. And you start looking like this experience is not just me.

18:23 Yeah. So it sounds like it was really helpful in not taking personally the. What happened to you. Yes, that. Yeah.

18:37 And a lot of people, like you say, will challenge that. Like, you're removing ownership, but it's like, no, they still have to. They're just not. They're going to have to talk to, you know, as one. You're going to answer to God. You're not answering to me. Yeah, you can apologize and I can forgive you and God forgives, but you're going to have to answer for what you did beyond me. But I just grew an understanding. So I didn't spend my whole life, like, angry and, you know, feeling, you know, I feel like a lot of people kind of put themselves in a vulnerable, disabled place. And I'm like, you're not disabled. You know, sometimes you can tell yourself that in your body, in your mind. I've seen so many people just, you're impacted by what you tell yourself. And that's what CBT really helped me. Like, I don't want to be wounded warrior. I don't. I don't have to be wounded. I can heal and go forth and do great things. I don't have to constantly be wounded. And so I am very particular about spaces I'm in when it comes to incest aware. Me too. Just because I want to refrain from being in spaces where it's just like a trigger space. You just going around story, hurt, story, hurt, story, hurt, pain, disabled, you know, and not saying that everybody comes out of that space, we have to respect that space for people. But for me, it was like, I don't want to be in that space.

20:06 Right. I describe it as getting stuck in the muck.

20:11 Yeah.

20:12 Getting depressed, getting heavy. All of the, uh, thoughts that continually circle around. And, um. As a practitioner of non violent communication, we know our feelings. If we are conscious and aware of them, can they lead us to know? What are we longing for? What do we value? What do we care about? What needs do we have met? So if we're sad and lonely, then, oh, I need some connection and taking the responsibility for how am I going to get some connection in my life? Right? So it's. I hear that, that similarity. And how do we help people who are stuck in the muck to learn to move beyond how do they. Yeah, yeah, great. So I would love to hear about the forgiveness process.

21:21 Forgiveness process. I talked to my abusers. Like, I was able to ask the questions. Why were you thinking, you know, that's how I got the backstories. You know, not everybody. I always say, like, this is not for everybody, but for me to confront them and have the conversations, it made it easier because now I got out all of my emotions towards them, my feelings. That's a lot of victors don't ever get the emotions out to the right people. They tell the world, but a lot of their forgiveness and healing is being stuck because you still feel like this person doesn't know how you feel. So for me, it was, I can't remove these people. You know, their family is family. So I'm going to tell them how I feel, how they made me feel, and then release them. You know, it was like, you know what? This, what you did, I'm not this, this, and this because of it. You take ownership for that. It's impacting my life. That can't change. But I release you to go live your life too, because that's something we can't change. I release myself, I release you, and I gotta go forth and do great things. So mine was confronting, as in having the conversation with the people, the actual people.

22:50 And how did you get yourself to that point to be able to do that? For me, it was after the cognitive therapy.

23:01 No, the cognitive therapy was just like 2022. I did that. I did so much stuff before I went to there. That's why when I was eight, when I finally got to actually doing therapy, my psychologist was like, I was the easiest client to work with because I had already been trucking, just doing a lot of, like, my spirituality, like, my faith drove a lot of my process. First, before psychology, my faith drove it. I studied, you hear scripture and just. I just learned how God wanted me to be. And then I replicated that in my life. So it was, I have found my dad who wasn't involved in my life, but hearing the scriptures honor your mother and your father so that your years may be long. What does honor look like to me? This is what I want to do. Hey, I don't know why you weren't around, but you got to take that up with God. I release you. I don't want you to think I hate you. I have any ought towards. You don't think you're going to die. You know, we didn't have a relationship, but I was able to confront you and release you, you know, hearing certain scriptures where it's just like, you know, we do not battle with flesh and blood, you know, but principalities of the world. So it's like, I'm not even in a fight with you. I don't hate you. I hate that you didn't make the right choice. You didn't choose the better half of the deal. So.

24:28 You hate what they did to you?

24:30 Yeah, I hate what they did to me. And so I was just going through, like, cleaning up my dark place, what's in the corner, what's in the rooms. And I felt confronting the people worked out best for me because I was able to release myself. And then I get everything I want to say and do out, and I think people don't take advantage of the person being alive that did you harm and being able to say, you know, get it all out. And whatever they do with that is on there, I don't care. You put in the letter, you face to face phone call, whatever you need to do to get it all out. And they may not say sorry, they may not respond, but that's what you got to prepare yourself for, is you're doing it to release the information, not to always get a response. But sometimes some people don't own it.

25:22 And did you do this after you told your mother?

25:26 Um, no, the confronting came before I told my mother. My mother was the last to find out.

25:32 Huh. Okay.

25:35 I kept it from my mother from the longest.

25:38 Did you have support or did you go to these people individually? And how many people were there?

25:45 Um, it was two. And I went to them individually.

25:50 Oh, you didn't have any support? It was you with them. And how old were you at the time?

25:57 Um, this was in my early twenties when I was having these conversations.

26:04 And. And it was through reading of the scriptures that got you there?

26:10 Yes, because it was like, as I was learning God, God was teaching me how to deal with my pain, deal with people. So I was busy learning God, but as I was learning him, I would read scriptures. Like, this is how he wants me to be. This. This is how he wants me to see this. And it allowed me to not, like. Like I said, over saturate myself with religion, but it was more. So I'm learning how God thinks about these things. And if I'm made in his image, even though it's hard, he's not telling me it's going to be easy, but he wants me to think about these things in the same manner. How can I do that? I'm not saying I'm there, but how do I get there then? How do I. How do I get there?

26:54 Yeah. Was. Was there any books that. That helped you, or was it a class within the spiritual community?

27:05 To be honest, I just started reading. Until I started writing, I didn't read books. I didn't read no self help books. Books on Trump. Like, when I say I didn't know about the community until later, this was really when I wholeheartedly, like, being God. Let's go. And as he showed me who I was and kind of show me who he was, that's when I started, like, talking and having conversations with people, not my family, but just different people. And then we would talk about it, and I was more. I was kind of already talking about it before I told my family and my parents I was in Japan, and I would do poetry or just having friend conversations. I wouldn't be, like, in depth, but I was having the conversations.

27:54 And what were the reactions by these two people that you confronted?

27:59 Sympathetic. You know, they. Apologetic. It was some, you know, reflecting and some denying. It was some crying. It was a roller coaster. It was a roller coaster. But to be honest, I. When I confronted them, I had already done some work. So it was just like, I'm only telling you this because I'm about to take this journey. And the last thing, you know, for me at the time was it was almost like a courtesy, like, hey, I'm finna go be great, and I'm sure I'm gonna be speaking and talking. Know that I'm talking about, you know, that it's not about you. It's not me targeting or taking a shot, but it's literally to tell my story to impact other people. It's nothing for you to take personal. You know, they did. Like, it was your choice, but it was me still having kind of, like, you know, operating in, um, kind of compassion, in a sense.

29:00 Wow.

29:00 Because I didn't want my story to. To me, I felt like I didn't want to be one ones where my story was just negative and dark. I wanted to have energy and impact, and I bring light. I didn't want it to just be, like, tears down dark. I didn't want that to be my story. So it's like I'm not in the weeds of what happened, who it was. It happened. Now we're here. Yeah, I'll talk about it, but then I go, here. Yeah, I'll get in the weeds up. But then I come here, and not because I can't be in that space, it's just, that's not the, that's not the intent here. And so I don't find myself indulging in the weeds of. Because I lived it. Yeah. And I can tell you the in depthness and go deep in this, but it's not for you to take from me because I've already healed. I've healed. I'm working through it. It's just for me to tell you so you understand that I can relate to you or that I'm qualified to be in the seat that I'm in talking about it.

30:13 I love that you describe it as a courtesy to them that, hey, dude, this is what I'm gonna go do. I'm gonna go forth and I'm gonna spread the love and the knowledge and, wow, it's so powerful. Yeah, wow. So what have I not asked you? What do you think?

30:43 This is the longest interview I ever done. I enjoy it, though. I enjoy having the conversations. I think the storyline, kind of, a lot of interviewers don't ask about how aftermath. Everybody wants to know the story, but they're like, then what's next after the story? How do you go through healing? Who are you before and after healing? What options? And I think that's where we get in our community. Like, we can all tell our story, but what are we doing to get on the other side? Not saying get over it, as in forget about it, but what are you doing to get on the other side? Not catering to it, not falling victim to it. Not re victimizing yourself, but what are you doing to get on the other side? You may not want to be a speaker or coach or, you know, you may not want to be advocate, but you advocate for yourself. What does life look look like for you? And I was constantly asked this in therapy, what does life look like for you on the other side? How do you get there? What are you willing to do to get there?

31:55 Mm hmm. Yeah. What does life look like for you? And for you? You are an officer. Tell us.

32:08 Yeah, I'm an engineering service officer. Been there 15 years. I've published three books. I do a lot. Like I said, speaking incest, where different organizations, metoo organizations. I mess with autistic children. Like any type of trauma altering cognitive behaviors. I like to indulge in it because it may be different than what I went through, but it still has some of the same impacts. Speaking to the youth, I speak women's conferences youth. I like doing full day programs at schools, just getting into the space and filling the gap at all ages in all groups, racist, ethnicity, it doesn't matter. Everybody needs to talk about it and hear it from a different perspective. And I just. You know, I have my podcast called beyond the vision, and it came from understanding, like, just because what going beyond what you see right now. And it kind of how. How I look at trauma is going beyond what you can see, what is on the other side of where you are right now. What does life look like? It can't just be what's in your line of sight. It's more. And so that's why I do the speaking, the coaching, and the book writing, and podcasting everywhere. If there's a place where we can spread hope, I'm there.

33:38 And you are doing all this while you're going off and being on a ship?

33:45 Yeah.

33:46 And working.

33:47 Yeah. I plan a lot of my stuff around the navy, but it's weekends, nighttime, you know, still getting my master's in mental clinical health counseling. So I felt like, you know, God gave me the strength and ability. He don't let me go until I tell him I can't go no more. So I always tell people I have this mindset. I want to leave the world empty when it's time for me to go. I want to have nothing left because I used it all.

34:10 Awesome. We only just have a few minutes left, and I just cannot thank you enough for your time and your open hearted sharing.

34:22 Thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed just having a conversation. It wasn't like, you know, you get the script and kind of robotic. I just love how it flows. So I really appreciate what you're doing and being the face of this community. I love it.

34:36 Thank you. So, after I stopped this recording, if you are open to it, I'd love to then send you the zoom link so that we can carry on for just a few more minutes.

34:56 Okay.

34:56 You all right with time wise?

34:58 Yeah, I'm all right. Come on. Okay. Send it all over.

35:00 All right.

35:01 Bye bye. Okay, bye.