Shirley Hinton and Karen Hill

[00:03] SHIRLEY HINTON: My name is Shirley Hinton. I am 69 years old. Today is Saturday, September 21st, 2024. I'm at the location of Story Corps Atlanta, and I am interviewing a dear friend, Karen Hill. Karen and I are old school roommates, college roommates, And can we scratch this and start over? Okay. Just start over like I'm for. Okay, so you'll cut that out. Okay. My name is Shirley Hinton. I am 69 years old. Today is Saturday, September 21st, 2024. I'm at the location of StoryCorps Atlanta. I am interviewing Karen Hill. We are former college roommates and current sorority sisters. Karen, I have a question for you.

[01:09] KAREN HILL: Hi, my name is Karen Hill and I am 69 years old. Today is Saturday, September the 21st. The location is historic Kappa Alpha Sorority, Atlanta. The name of my interview partner is Shirley Hinton. Shirley Hinton, and she was my college roommate.

[01:31] SHIRLEY HINTON: Karen, have a question for you. Tell me about someone you consider family, even if not biologically related, and the impact they've had on your life.

[01:45] KAREN HILL: It is truly a pleasure and an honor that I'm given this opportunity, because the person that I consider family is you, Shirley. Shirley has been in my life we met at college, and I don't know when or where, but. And we dated best friends, so some things will remain Untold. However, she has been my child's. She was there when my child was born all through all of my marriages, divorces, just life period bursts of. My children, parents, sorority, death, everything. So I truly consider her more than just a friend. She's my sister.

[02:36] SHIRLEY HINTON: Absolutely. And that was totally unexpected. But thank you.

[02:43] KAREN HILL: Shirley, I would like to ask you some questions. And the first one is, Can you share a story about a family member who overcame adversities and paved the way for future generations?

[03:12] SHIRLEY HINTON: Sure, and I'll bet you can predict who I'm going to talk about too. And that, of course, is my sister Brenda. Brenda, first of all, she graduated high school at the age of 15. So at the dear age of 13, she was integrating the high school. This was in 1968. We're from a little town in South Georgia. I know everybody has heard of Vidalia onions. So my hometown, Baxley, Georgia, is about 25 miles from Vidalia, where those onions are grown. So it was totally segregated schools at that time in 1968. Brenda, no, it would have been 1966 back up. She graduated college in '68, I mean, high school in '68. So it would have been in '66. She and two other girls graduate, they integrated the high school in Baxley. The high school's name, of course, was not Baxley. It wasn't enough students to just have Baxley High School. So it was about three different little towns in Appling County that made up the high school. So the high school was called Appling County High. And they had the janitor from the black school, which was Alpha County Consolidated High School, that janitor that worked at the high school for blacks picked them up every morning and took them to the high school. In those days and in rural communities, races were separated By what, do you think? They were separated by the railroad. Railroad trains came through the town. And so on one side of the railroad tracks were white people, on the other side were black people. So we called him Big T because he was huge. He was well over 300 pounds, the janitor for the black school. He would pick up those three girls take them across town to the high school. When they got there, all the white kids would be lined the walkways every day. Go home, nigga. We don't want you here spitting at them, everything. And they had to endure that to go through, to get into the classes. Once in the classes, Of course, as they raised their hand and all three of those girls were very, very bright, mind you, all A's, et cetera. But it was a constant struggle for them to just to be able to participate in class. That occurred every day. Then for social life, these are kids, mind you, they're still young. They would try to go to the games at the black school, whether it's a, you know, it was a football game outside or a basketball game inside. And the black kids would say, what are you doing here? No, you wanted to go with the white folks. You go, go attend their games. Don't come to our games. So they were, they were just, you know, upside down one way or the other. She did graduate with honors. But she said she wanted, nope, she never wanted to see another, quote, cracker in her life, as she called, we called white people back then, crackers, just like they called us niggers. So she ended up going to college at Morris Brown in Atlanta. And of course, I dreamed of going to Morris Brown. But when I graduated, from high school four years later. We graduate. We're only two years apart, but she got skipped, graduated. Anyway, she graduated high school at the age of 15. By the time I was graduating high school, she was graduating college. And so, whereas I wanted to follow in her steps and go to Morris Brown, it was extremely high. And so I was able to get a much better financial deal going to the University of Georgia, and that's how I ended up there, meeting my best friend, Karen Hill. Thank you. Now, Karen, I have another question for you. What are your favorite stories, jokes, or songs from your family history? Why are they important to you?

[08:16] KAREN HILL: One of my, I have many, many favorites, but one that resonates and continues to this day is ever since I could remember, well, now she's passed, but my grandmother owned a daycare center and she was always family oriented. So it didn't matter every holiday, everybody had to go to her house. And for Christmas, Christmas was a huge deal. For Christmas, she would make all the children at the daycare, they had to bring three gifts, one for a teacher, one for the administrator, and one for a friend. And her thing was every child would end up with at least three gifts. And because she never wanted any child to feel like they weren't loved or they weren't cared for. And for the holidays, I mean, she just Christmas was her holiday. Every day, every Christmas, we would, everybody, I have, my mom has three other siblings, but all of her siblings will wake up in their respective homes with their loved ones, the children. You'd open your Christmas things. But that day, about two o'clock, everybody went to my grandmother's house. And my grandmother would have gifts for everybody in the family. Everybody got gifts. And then from there, we would go what we call house to house. You go, we started with my aunt's house and you go and see what her children got for Christmas. And then we leave and you ate something at her house. Then you leave there and go to my uncle's and you leave there and go to my other uncle's and then you leave there and come to our house. To this day, it ended my last living aunt passed. Guess it was about six years ago and that's when we finally stopped going house to house. But we would always still go house to house, even with our, with our children. And I think it just resonated to us because my family, and it is interesting, as I stated, Shirley has been there through many marriages, and I don't want to say how many, but anyway, during those marriages, I've dated a couple of friends, but a, I mean, a couple of guys and one of them to this day says that was the best Christmas he ever had because he went and it may not have been anything but a bag of socks or whatever but he said just that love of going house to house he just really appreciated so to this day we still go house to house and our family and my daughter say it's a disease we make sure if somebody unexpectedly comes you will have a gift. And we just love to give. So it has truly, truly impacted my life because I just love to give. I mean, so that's our family story.

[11:35] SHIRLEY HINTON: Yes, you do. And Karen, I appreciate that. And I guess this is where it comes from. But as you know, every year on your birthday, We have to do a service project. So that's a part of our journey as Alpha Kappa Alpha women. But I know you take it so much a higher level than any sorority I know by requiring that on your birthday, your family and friends, and I too include myself as your sister, but I go as a a former friend, but we know we're sisters, not only sorority sisters, but sisters at heart. But that explains where this 20-year history of us going out working on all of these projects on your birthday comes from. And I thought it was just because your birthday, ####### ####, is so close to Martin Luther King's. But no, this comes from Thelma.

[12:45] KAREN HILL: Yep, yep, yep, yep.

[12:46] SHIRLEY HINTON: And Mommy, okay.

[12:48] KAREN HILL: Yep, service is out as the price we pay for living on this earth. And I am, that's one of those legacies I'm happy about because even my daughter now on her birthday, she loves to do service projects. And so, you know, it's one of those that you can never get while it helps somebody else, it definitely resonates with you as well. And Shirley, I definitely appreciate. I don't care what we're doing. Shirley will always be there for those service projects. I'm like, oh, Lord, I know Shirley said, hit ain't going.

[13:23] SHIRLEY HINTON: Yeah, we've done all kinds of stuff from decorating nursing home doors to remember the year we were over. The Metro Atlanta Founders Day for our sorority, and we had to put around, what, 3,000? 3,000, we had to put together 3,000 necklace chains. We ordered them from China, but somebody had to put them together with the little lockets. Guess what? That was one of our Karen Hill birthday projects. So we had, what, 20 people in her, between her living room and dining room, scattered out on the floor making all these bracelets. But those memories are immeasurable. They really are, Karen.

[14:09] KAREN HILL: Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have another question for you, Shirley.

[14:15] SHIRLEY HINTON: And it is.

[14:22] KAREN HILL: It'S related. Can you share a time when you broke through barriers or exceeded expectations despite facing challenges.

[14:38] SHIRLEY HINTON: Sure. So I came out of college in 1976. My major was business management, and I ended up at Allstate Insurance Company. Insurance is a field. Most people don't study for unless you have a parent who owns an insurance agency or something. It's the most boring subject in the world. But I ended up at an insurance company five years into that, I landed in claims and in particular workers compensation claims. So all of my last 40-year history, well 35-year history, has been in the handling supervision and management at the middle manager level of workers compensation claims. So back in the 90s, I was asked by the chairman of the board, because of interest I displayed at various conferences and meetings, I was asked by the chairman of the state board of workers compensation to join what's called an Advisory Council. So the state board and that council continues to today. But the purpose of the Advisory Council, it is made up of seven or eight committees that make up all aspects of workers' compensation law. It includes members from employers, insurance companies, third-party administrators, defense attorneys, plaintiff attorneys, rehabilitation, case managers, physician groups, because workers comp, you got fee schedules and all of that, that doctor groups have to abide by. So it's made up of all aspects of the industry where people would be incurring workers' compensation claims. So I served on that advisory council for over 20 years, and I was one of the first, blacks on that council. So I've always been a first in my insurance industry field. The second organization I was the first I served on after that was Georgia Self-Insurers Association. I was the first black on that board of directors. But the one that gave me the greatest effort, well, I had the greatest barrier to overcome because it was supported by your peer groups who appointed you to that position. And so just from my dealings with everybody, I was asked to become and get involved in the board, the executive board for the Atlanta Claims Association. And that was, that ran from the 80s. But in 2005, I was actually appointed president of that organization. It was an 1100 member organization that, under my leadership, we grew to 1300 members. And it was a lot of camaraderie. And that was the most, it was the most difficult time because it so much to do, but it also gave me the greatest accomplishments as well as the greatest feeling of self-worth. So I enjoy all of those special moments, but in particular when I was president of the Atlanta Claims Association. Why don't we talk about When we met at Georgia, I'll never forget sitting outside on the stoop, outside from the cafeteria. What was the name of the cafeteria? The Bulldog. Not the Bulldog Room, but the one from Cresswell. Oh.

[18:49] KAREN HILL: Bolton Hall.

[18:50] SHIRLEY HINTON: Bolton Hall.

[18:51] KAREN HILL: Yeah.

[18:52] SHIRLEY HINTON: But we would sit out there on those steps late at night as we waited and reminisced and talked about our dates, who they were best friends, we were best friends, and we sat out there and solved the world.

[19:08] KAREN HILL: Yes, those were some, definitely some good days. And though the days that I truly cherish, and when we talk about, you know, every time I think about that, I always think about, and I don't know how we met, but And even how Danny, rest his soul, and Donna Bird became friends because Donna was from Athens and Donna Bird was a college student. And back then, the first thing they told you was, don't socialize with the people from the city. You're in college, don't socialize with the people from the city. But when I say, I know we went to a party or something one night off campus and we met And that just fostered that such a great bond, even between them and us. And I cherish it even now. You know, it's like both of us probably thought then that those were people we married and neither one of us did. But it's just they remained friends and we remained friends.

[20:12] SHIRLEY HINTON: But guess what? Both of them are now dead. Both of them are now dead. So thankfully we outlived them. Yeah. But those were some wonderful memories. And that brings us to when we joined Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority. We had been friends a couple of years. I don't know, I don't know why we didn't pledge at the same time. We were different majors. You were, of course, the big P.E. That was all you, you were into every sports event and all of that. But then we started embarking upon sororities. And as you know, my sister Brenda, the one I just told you about, that really integrated the schools in my hometown and made it so much easier for everybody coming after her to be able to go to any school where the kids of today now just take for granted.

[21:19] KAREN HILL: But.

[21:20] SHIRLEY HINTON: She had pledged Delta and she was at the very end of her pledge year in what back then they called Hell Week. And she was also a music major on scholarship. And they were getting ready for this huge concert. So her professor told her she could not miss any rehearsals. So she went to her big sisters and said, I have to practice. I have to attend this. My scholarship is based on it. They would not let her offline. So she had to end up getting offline. So she's what is called an eternal pyramid because she never pledged and went over under Delta. So I had gone to Georgia, planning to pledge Delta. I had met Marjorie Hinton, who, as you know, Ripley, the big church in town. But Marjorie Hinton and I were friends as well. And I was, she was pledging Delta. I was going to pledge Delta. But it was something about those AKAs on Georgia's campus. They came on board in '73, right before we actually pledged. And so in that process of checking out the sororities, it was only Delta and AKA on campus at that time. So I went AKA and so did you, a quarter after I did. I think we saw in those sororities something that emulated us, one of service. One of Sisterhood not being stuck up, you know, down to earth. And that is what attracted us to the AKs on the University of Georgia campus. And as we know, sororities and Sisterhood attracts differently on different college campuses. But for us, I'm so glad we met. I'm so glad we joined the same sorority. You will forever be my sister, both AKA as well as I consider myself an Adam Hinton.

[23:46] KAREN HILL: And that is so interesting because interesting when I went to Georgia and it's so interesting I too was interested in pledging Delta Sigma Theta. Yeah, because, yeah, your best friend, yeah. But Pat was gonna pledge AKA.

[24:05] SHIRLEY HINTON: Oh my goodness.

[24:07] KAREN HILL: Pat was typically what they typically considered being light-skinned, fair-skinned, and I was dark-skinned, so I was like, no, I cannot be. Because then they used to tell you, you had to pass the paper sack test and rumors. And so when I went to Georgia, I was thinking, okay, I will pledge Delta. Pat was going to pledge AKA at Tennessee State. And it was so interesting. When I got to Georgia and I saw the AKAs, like you say, they were so us. They were friendly, they were warm. They were smart. I think that's what pushed us to them. They were smart. They were the campus leaders. They were all of that on a bag of chips. And so we started actually in the Ivettes Club and then just migrated to AKA. And as I said, that was one of the better decisions that I made at Georgia. And I do not regret it at all.

[25:07] SHIRLEY HINTON: Absolutely. So, as you know, AKAs was chartered on Georgia in January 73. So I was the third line. You were the fourth line the following year in 74. So. This year we celebrate 50 year anniversary in Alpha Kappa Alpha. Alpha, that's called Goldensaurus. And we are truly treated as high echelon within the sorority. So I'm glad we made these 50 years, but I treasure my 52 year friendship with you even more.

[25:50] KAREN HILL: And I do as well. And I pray God gives us 52 more years. And I always tell people, you know, life takes you in directions you never know. I will always be grateful that Shirley took the job at Alpha. Not sure why, but I'm glad she took it because she met my brother-in-law at Alpha. And I love Burton. He was, I thought Donna Bird was it for Shirley, but no, Birdus is it. He's my chosen one. So I am so happy you took the job at Allstate because you met Birdus.

[26:30] SHIRLEY HINTON: Yes, indeed. Okay, so let's go to another question then, Karen.

[26:44] KAREN HILL: I want to answer, and I always think about what aspect of your culture, and it's not really my culture, but it's just a deeply rooted in me. Do you believe I often misrepresent, misrepresent it or underappreciated? And I always think about my mom was a single mom, heard my dad divorce when I was five years old. And we lived in what was then called Greater Home Projects. Of course, in Atlanta, they've torn down all the projects. But I always think, and I'm grateful for the projects, because they gave you a sense of community, a sense of Pride, a sense that you could accomplish things working together in unity. And I used to tell my husband, I thought every child he had, come from different background. He had two parents. They lived in South Georgia on the dairy farm. So they never had that struggle thing. But I always told him, I thought everybody should grow up in the projects because it taught you that strength in unity that you could accomplish if you work together. And it doesn't matter that one succeed, it's everybody need to succeed. So, and I really, that's one of those roots that even now, we're still close to a lot of people that we grew up with in Greater Home Projects, even though they've torn down the projects. And I'm grateful that the majority of the people that grew up around us are really thriving. And, you know, and I know they had to have that barrier, and we always reflect on that unity and that bond that connected us. I'm sure you had, Life, like I always remember Shirley telling me about the Puppwood. So share some of your stories.

[28:43] SHIRLEY HINTON: So unlike you, so we're, you know, coming up in Grady homes, communities, black communities back then were closer knit because you had to. You couldn't go to, well, it was Rich's and now Macy's. You couldn't go even go in a store like that. So the communities had everything in this metro Atlanta area where you grew up. Your communities had everything you needed right there in the community. Grocery stores, you know, little movie theaters, et cetera. Not so much like my hometown in Baxley, Georgia. Other than, you know, as I talked about when my sister integrated the schools, all blacks were on one side of the tracks, whites were on the other side. But I grew up in the city of Baxley. So it had stores. There was maybe 10,000 people in my hometown back then, but it wasn't rural country. But the jobs that we had were all, you know, rural and being in the wood industry. So I had, I called it Puckwooding, but I didn't actually do Puckwooding. That that was more a man's job where you cut down trees and then you get the pulp out of the tree for use and then the trees are cut up to make paper. But I worked at this and it was actually one summer during college that I worked at this manufacturing plant. And we had to take the wood as they were cut and it came down this assembly line, grab it up and put it in these things. Well, there was something in that wood that I got allergic to. And to this day, I have an allergy where anything metal comes on me, you know, I have that. But those are memories that you and I share that I hope we'll be able to pass on to our grandkids and great grandkids and beyond over the next few years.

[30:58] KAREN HILL: I agree, I agree. What words would you use to define yourself? How has that shaped your life, experiences and perspectives?

[31:30] SHIRLEY HINTON: Probably tenacious, just hanging in there. I had adversity. My father died when I was five years old. My mother became a single parent of five at that time. There's 17 years difference between me and my older brother, who my older brother, by the way, is still alive. He just turned 87 on ######### ####. I am 69, so you can see the difference there. But we had to have tenaciousness. My father died when I was 15 years old. So when I, as you know, when I got to college and met you, I had moved to San Antonio, Texas to live with my brother the first year after my mother died. Then I went back home to Baxley to live with my older sister for my 12th grade year. So I appreciate you so much because you had a big Lincoln car, that you had as air when your grandmother died. And we used to ride all over Athens in that car. But tenaciousness is what probably got me through it all. Just, you know, you having to take the hand you're dealt, the card you're dealt, and deal with it. So, but it was through friends like you. And I remember going home, coming here to Atlanta, with you every weekend that you came home. I was right in that big Lincoln with you. And those were, you know, we were so much smaller than I didn't take pictures, but you always took pictures everywhere we went. I'm going, oh, my goodness, no. But I didn't realize then how. How treasurable those pictures would be. So thank you for taking them. We gotta dig them back up sometime and. Through some of those old photos.

[33:34] KAREN HILL: And it's interesting you say we have to, the cards that we dealt. I always remember people just recently asked me if I knew how to play spades. And I said, I do. Only because Shirley was one of the best spade players in college, and she needed a partner. And so she just asked me, will you just go down there and be a partner? I can't tell you how many times I probably reneged on her. But I was a partner and I do know how to play spades thanks to you teaching me those things. But I was like, that was one of the, just recently I was talking about that. So that was a card I was dealt and I do cherish that. I do know how to play cards. And so it's a memory that I would take forever.

[34:24] SHIRLEY HINTON: Speaking of which, you know at Cresswell Hall, we lived in Cresswell Hall, both of us. You didn't play cards like me, and I can't remember if we were actual roommates then or not, but of course, Mama was dead. I was getting a little social security check from my father who had died, and we'd be up all times of night playing cards in the lobby in Crestwood Hall. We were actually there playing cards when the streakers came through. You remember streaking? So this went white, not there was no black person on campus participating in streaking, but this is when all of these white people people come running through the lobby. No, totally, dude. But, yeah, though, that playing cards that kind of got me through in between the studying. And so I treasure all of those moments. We're done. Do what?

[35:33] KAREN HILL: Shirley, I really appreciate this opportunity to just reflect and remember and capture our history and write our story. You know, it's important and I'll be the first to admit, I was kind of hesitant. And you've always been that encouraging person, even to this. You were like, Come on now, we gotta do this. It was like, oh my God, Jesus. But thank you, thank you, thank you for the interview. Thank you for the opportunity. Opportunity. And thank you for the friendship.

[36:03] SHIRLEY HINTON: Same here, Karen. And we brought up some old memories today that we cannot let go by. So maybe we need to document some of that stuff. And. And this will go far in helping us to do that so that our younger generation, my little Jade in particular, my granddaughter that follows me toe to toe. I will be able to reflect upon our accomplishments and what we came through to get to where we are today. I love you, my sister.

[36:35] KAREN HILL: I love you too.