Sierra Laverty and Suzanne Asha Stone

[00:01] SIERRA LAVERTY: All right. I'm Sierra Laverty I am 30 years old. Today is Friday, August 19, 2022. We're here in Boise, Idaho, and I'm here with my mother, Suzanne Asha Stone, and.

[00:16] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Hi, I am Suzanne Aysha Stone. I am 60. Today's date is Friday, August 19, 2022. We're in Boise, Idaho, and I am here with my beautiful daughter, Sierra, and we're excited to talk and record this.

[00:34] SIERRA LAVERTY: Yeah. Where do you want to start? Because I feel like you have an idea.

[00:43] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Well, let's see. I guess if it were up to me, I would start with maybe when you first became aware of what I was doing.

[00:59] SIERRA LAVERTY: You know, the pieces get put together over time, obviously. But a pretty good indication for me was when we had a literal wolf in the house, you know, picking me up by my.

[01:19] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: I. Oh, when you were sharing a play pen with a newborn wolf, it was coming from Mission wolf in Colorado, and they had just rescued this little guy, and he was heading. Actually, it was a girl, wasn't it? It was peaches.

[01:34] SIERRA LAVERTY: Peaches. It was peaches. Yeah.

[01:37] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: She went on to become one of their top ambassador. Wolves. Probably did educational programs for over probably hundreds of thousands of school kids. But I think you were her first kid, and you were such a tyke, peaches.

[01:56] SIERRA LAVERTY: And then coda as well, is who I was thinking of. But, yeah, there's that. And I do remember you being gone for a long time and talking about being in Canada and how it was so cold when you went there for the reintroduction of the. Of wolves in North America, that it was so cold there that if you drank hot chocolate and then smiled too quickly that you could crack a tooth, is what you told me. Or that if you went outside, you know, with your hair wet, your hair could break off. It was like just. It was so cold. And I remember seeing your big white boots that had all the signatures of people that were part of the reintroduction. I've been thinking about how thick those are and how those can't possibly be your boots because they were so big and so thick. They had to be some, you know, giant person's boots. But those are some of the early things that stood out to me.

[02:59] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: We were in Canada for about two weeks. I think that was the longest I had been away from you. And you were. That was 1996, was it?

[03:11] SIERRA LAVERTY: I was four.

[03:12] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: You were four years old then.

[03:14] SIERRA LAVERTY: Starting to put things together about the world.

[03:17] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yep. And we went up to northern Canada, Fort St. John's. And that was the second year of the Wolfray introduction, and it was cold. It never got over 30 below zero when we were there. It was in January.

[03:35] SIERRA LAVERTY: Wow.

[03:35] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: And the wolves were having no problem because they like that kind of temperature. Yeah.

[03:40] SIERRA LAVERTY: Why did you have to do it in January of all times? Like, why this time?

[03:45] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: It's easier to catch wolves in that time of year because they're in snow.

[03:48] SIERRA LAVERTY: Okay.

[03:49] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: So if you're tracking wolves by helicopter, which we had a hard time even getting the helicopters off the ground because the fuel lines kept freezing because it got down to 50 below zero and stayed there for a while. But once we got the helicopters up and running again, then when they were tracking the wolves, it was easier to catch them in snow rather than trying to chase them and dart them so that we could catch them and then bring them back, put a radio collar on them and then ship them down to the United States. So it was the. It was the best time of year for us, and it was probably easier time of year for them as well.

[04:34] SIERRA LAVERTY: Through their cycles and everything else, too.

[04:37] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: When we let them go, they had essentially a lot of elk and deer that had never seen wolves in their lifetimes. And during the winter time, it's much easier for them to hunt because they can run across the top of the snow.

[04:52] SIERRA LAVERTY: They get a running start. Yeah.

[04:55] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: The elk and deer kind of punch through the snow, and it makes it harder for them to escape predators that are coursing predators like wolves. So. Yep. Yeah. It was not my favorite time of year to go. No.

[05:10] SIERRA LAVERTY: How did you figure out which packs and, like, which wolves to choose? Because, I mean, that later became very controversial. But, like, what, how went into that process of, like, okay, this is the. Did you move a whole pack? Did you move individuals?

[05:22] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: We did both. So we caught 66 wolves altogether between the first two years, 95 and 96. And about half of them went to Idaho. The other half went to Yellowstone National park. And the ones going to Yellowstone were going to be held in captivity, what they called a soft release, so that whole families of wolves then could stay together. And then the thought was, if we do this, they'll acclimate to the area and then stay together as packs. And that did work for most of the wolves there. With Idaho, we just copied what nature does on her own, which is when wolves get to be teenagers, they often leave their home pack to go out and look for a mate to start their own family. And so we took animals that were more of the teenage years that would have been natural dispersers, let them all go quickly together in the different spots where we released them, they bounced around like ping pong balls, like around the state of Idaho, found each other. And then they had pups in dens the same time that the Yellowstone wolves did that spring.

[06:38] SIERRA LAVERTY: Really? Wow, that's cool. You could see the two different strategies kind of play out, but both were successful. I love the story that you told me about how the Idaho introduction came to be and how you were able to write all those letters of support or to request all those letters of support to make that happen. Can you tell me that again?

[07:06] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yeah. Well, the reintroduction itself almost didn't happen the second year. So I got a call in, I think it was late November, from the head of the Fish and Wildlife service wolf reintroduction team for the region. And he said, we just had all of our funding stripped from the reintroduction this year. So Congress had removed all the appropriations dollars that they had set aside to make that happen. And he thought that, you know, it just wasn't going to go forward, which would have been a tragedy because the first year wasn't enough to secure a population. We only got a handful of wolves the first year. So it was really important to do it again. And I think I woke up during the middle of the night and thought, you know, let's just send a letter out to everybody who's a supporter and see if people would be willing to donate to something like this. I approached my board about it, and.

[08:11] SIERRA LAVERTY: This was back when, say, the organization.

[08:14] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Name again, it was the wolf Education Research center at the time. And I said, you know, I want to ask these people to help fund the reintroduction this year. And the boards thought about it and said, well, you can't use our active lists of people who are giving members, but we have this really old list of 2000 people who haven't given any years. And you can use that list. And so I got that list. They gave me a one page back in front that I could send in the mail. And in that letter, I told people what was happening and the, that all of their contributions would go to their reintroduction efforts. And a few weeks later, maybe days later, I went to the post office, not expecting much. And when I opened the post office box, the letters just poured on the floor. And it was just amazing that so many people had sent. You know, it was everything from this young girl. And, I mean, she was in Arkansas and she and her grandmother had gone out for the weekend and collect the pop bottles and turn those in. And she sent me $5.86 to go toward bringing wolves back. And then we had a machine shop in New York that for some reason decided to send us $10,000. So it was everything in between.

[09:42] SIERRA LAVERTY: It was a lot of money back then.

[09:43] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: It was a lot of money. And we, when I went back again to the post office, they brought out boxes of letters at that point that were just full of checks and cash and everything. And we put it all into this bank account. And I called the official service wolf introduction coordinator and said, guess what, we're go. We raised over $100,000 very quickly with a letter.

[10:14] SIERRA LAVERTY: Oh, my gosh. I mean, that's incredible.

[10:16] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yep. And it wasn't enough to, like, pay for some of the, oh, just, you know, people's time, like the veterinarians and things like that. But then the vets decided to donate their time. And our lab guy that was running all our blood work up there came in and he had volunteered. He was from Yale University. His name was Duck Smith, and he was one of the top kidney specialists in the world, running our lab work all night long, you know, like an intern. So it just all pulled together. People donated their time, the local school, some of the students came out and volunteered. We had a local vet come out and volunteer, and it was just this massive, you know, community effort to make sure that this went forward. Wow.

[11:05] SIERRA LAVERTY: What a launch. Padded.

[11:15] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yeah. Yeah, it really restored, well, inspired my faith in people, that there were people who really cared. This was to them something that had been very wrong, that they felt like, you know, that this was an injustice of, that humans had killed off all of the wolves from this region, and this was a way of trying to make it right again.

[11:42] SIERRA LAVERTY: What did that tell you about being on the right track? Because it's been a bumpy road and it had probably been a little bit bumpy up until that point. So how did that help you, I guess, into the next decade of work that you were doing for wolf wolves?

[12:04] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Well, I kind of went into this eyes wide open. I don't know if you remember the story, but my first time to go out as an intern with Doctor Steven Fritz, who's fish and wildlife service at the time, we were coming back from a flight over central Idaho to look at potential wolf Habitat, and we were doing a howling survey up near Warm Lake. And it was my first time to do howling. And I howled, my first howl standing on this remote forest service road in the public forest. And then I got about halfway through my second howl, and we had rifle bullets just whistlesing right over the top of my head. If they'd been six inches lower, you and I both wouldn't be here. Right. So that was my introduction, and it was like I knew that the animosity and fear and the bias against the species has run deep for a long time. So we knew you knew what you.

[13:12] SIERRA LAVERTY: Were getting into at that point.

[13:13] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: You were getting into. Yeah, I did try to perfect howling behind trees after that. It was. We were jumping back in the car, and Doc Fritz looked at me, and he goes, I think I taught you how to howl too well.

[13:27] SIERRA LAVERTY: Yeah, I bet a little too well.

[13:33] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yeah. It was the people, though, and you got to meet a lot of them, but they were just incredibly special people that came together to make all of this happen. One of them that I'm so glad you got to have a relationship with is Levi Holt. Black beaver from the Nez Perce tribe. Yeah. And, I mean, he treated you like you were a niece.

[13:57] SIERRA LAVERTY: Called me pup.

[13:59] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Pup.

[14:00] SIERRA LAVERTY: Yeah. He's always, what's. What's happening, pup?

[14:05] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: I'm not surprised there were others. Pete Hayes was the chairman of the tribe when I was working for him as an intern. He was head of the wildlife division, and he would always talk about the grandeur of the day, just reflecting back on the really good things that happened that day. And that was such a beautiful, just way of looking at the world that no matter what had gone wrong that day, there was always something that you could reflect back on that would make you appreciate the gift of living in that day. So I learned, yeah, I want to.

[14:49] SIERRA LAVERTY: Go back to that moment where you were shot at in the woods as an intern, because I think there's a lot of people that would have experienced that and gone, that's not for me. You know, this is too hot. This is too confrontational. There's, you know, too much conflict here. Like, what about that experience? Did you reflect back on and go, yeah, okay, I can do this? Like, I can. I can handle this?

[15:17] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: You know, I think that it's interesting, but the thing that I think probably prepared me the most for all of that was having gone through my first marriage and the domestic violence that was involved in that. So I knew what it was like to be bullied and the center of abuse. So it didn't stop me from going forward. It just made me smarter about how to do it. So I was always really careful about making sure that you guys, as my kids, had different names in school so that you weren't connected last names with me, and we didn't post things about who you were. I always watched where I parked my car. That didn't always work. I still had a few tires and windshields that got lost. Yeah. And then really careful about sharing where I worked when I walked to my car, things like that. It didn't stop, all of it. But you just learn to be really attuned to the, you know, what's going on around you. So we had, like in going up to the wolf to release the wolves the first year, it was a hotspot. I mean, we were up in salmon, Idaho. There were signs in town that said, kill all the wolves and the people who were bringing them here.

[16:48] SIERRA LAVERTY: I remember one of the local cafes that I really like to go have breakfast at. We stopped going because they had put something in their window about, you know, the bounty for the ears of defenders of wild. I think they called out the organization you worked for specifically.

[17:07] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: And I was the only person here that worked for them in the northwest that was working for them at the time. So I was like, okay, I guess.

[17:13] SIERRA LAVERTY: We'Re not going to this cafe anyway.

[17:16] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yeah, yeah.

[17:19] SIERRA LAVERTY: Sometimes a big target, like litter. A literal target as well, right?

[17:24] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Well, the wolves have been too, but.

[17:26] SIERRA LAVERTY: Yeah, they're a much bigger target.

[17:28] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: When we drove the wolves in, we had kind of a convoy of people going in. And one of the other heroes of that time was a law enforcement officer for fish and wildlife service named Steve McGowan. And he helped secure the wolves into a warehouse where they could be protected. He actually showed up at a meeting, and I didn't know him. I was up giving a briefing for reporters, and he came into the back of the room and he was wearing a long black coat, and he had a heavy, what looked to be a bible underneath his hand, but I could tell it was too heavy to be a Bible. So I was really nervous watching him because he was standing by the only door entrance into the room. And as the reporters left, trying to get an update on what was happening with the. When we were releasing the wolves, he waited until there was no one left in the room. And I just, I thought, oh, gosh, this is it. And then he came up to me and he said, hi, my name is Steve McGowan. I'm a law enforcement agent for fish and waller service, and I'm here to protect you and the wolves. I was like, oh, okay. Do you slug somebody for that or do you just be grateful? I was grateful. So I had my own guardian angels along the way.

[18:49] SIERRA LAVERTY: Yeah, you did a lot of good people. Thinking back on those guardian angels and the people that made this possible. I'm curious. Who stands out as a pinch header to you? I mean, there's so many people, right? Without their particular expertise or without their service in that moment or without some action that they did, just. It wouldn't have been possible.

[19:34] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: There's so many.

[19:35] SIERRA LAVERTY: Yeah, I know that's a hard question.

[19:36] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: So many. I would say one of the first ones was Michael Blake, who was the author of Dances with Wolves. And before the reintroduction, there was a really hard push that was initiated by Senator McClure from Idaho to try to strip all protection of wolves outside of some very small areas where they would never have recovered and keep them maintained within just the boundaries of Yellowstone National park. So it never would allow the population to be a metapopulation again. It would be more like trapping them in confined areas that would require isolation. So you'd get inbreeding and all kinds of problems like that. But that plan was well underway when I got a call from Michael Blake, who said, hi, I'm Michael Blake. I'm the author of Dances with Wolves, which had just wonde, you know, like the Academy Award for so many awards a week or so before this phone call. And I thought it was a prank call. So I said, okay, who are you? And he goes, I'm Michael Blake. I am the author of Dancers with Wolves. You probably have seen the movie. I was like, uh huh. And which of my friends is this that's calling and doing a prank call? And he's like, I can see you don't have. Believe me. Here's my secretary's phone number in Hollywood. Please call her. She will tell you that I am the real person. And at this point, I was feeling about an inch tall and was like, oh, my gosh. This really may be Michael Blake. And it just floored me. But a week later, he was in Idaho. We did a press conference here at the state house, pushing back on that plan, and then jumped on an airplane. We had a little bit of an odd and funny incident where the fish and wildlife service here had made a mistake and told the reporters that I was traveling with Kevin Costner. So when we got to Denver and got off the plane, and this is back when anybody could come up to the gate, they were all. There was like 100 reporters. It was just unbelievable how many people were in there and yelling, Kevin Costner. And my name. Oh, that's exciting. I know. You know, I don't really like that kind of attention. And so Michael kind of grabbed me by the arm and he goes, just don't respond. Just, we're gonna walk right by, everybody. We're gonna go over to that coffee shop right across the way and sit and have coffee and wait for this crowd to thin out. I mean, they were literally standing on chairs and stuff. So. So we did. And the last reporter that was there, I think his name was Kit miniclair and he was from the Denver Post. And he, Michael went over, tapped on his shoulder, said, I'm not Kevin Costner, but I am Michael Blake, the author of Dancers with wolves, and this is Suzanne. And we are going to DC to try to save wolves. And so he got the interview. And I think the most important thing that happened to in DC is that Michael knew Senator Byrd, or had met him before we were able to get in to see him. And he was head of the appropriations. And the two of them, Senator Byrd was on the National Children's Literary Council. And of course, the two of them were just like their heads together, just talking about books and stories and just having a great time. And I knew we had about 15 minutes with him, so I kept looking at my watch and because we weren't talking about what we were there to talk about, and he finally looked over at me and he says, don't worry about that plan. I'll show you where it is. And he pulled out the trash can from underneath his desk and he said, it's not going any further than that. And that was the end of it. So those are the heroes. Those are the people that just step in for a moment and make all the difference. So, yeah, when wolves were reintroduced, it was as a metapopulation so that we would have an interconnection between central Idaho, northwestern Montana and Yellowstone National park. And we create this integrated population of wolves.

[23:59] SIERRA LAVERTY: I want to jump forward a little bit because now, like, speaking of people, people that are incredibly talented and dedicated to this work. So you recently started a new nonprofit with a lot of really wonderful people in it, the international wildlife coexistence network. This work feels so inspiring and so optimistic, and I feel like it's been decades and decades of just a lot of harm. And there is harm happening now to wolves and other animals across the world. But from what I hear from you recently, this feels very positive. And that there's just a lot of really great interconnection globally that you're seeing enabled the harness. Can you tell me how you're feeling right now? You know, it's been, what, a year and a bit since you started this?

[25:05] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Two years.

[25:05] SIERRA LAVERTY: Two years organization yeah, two years since you started this organization. So how do you feel like today.

[25:11] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: I guess, about it, it is one of the biggest rewards that I've had to be able to create this new organization with this community of people who are inspiring and have great faith in the work that we're doing. And just. I love the people I'm surrounded by. I am just constantly amazed at how much dedication that they have and how much clarity they have and what needs to be done and how much we are able to work in collaboration with each other. It's more than that. It's more like this. It's becoming a family, very harmonic type relationship. And it is, you know, we're connecting with people all over the world who are working, sometimes desperately to try to save the last of species. Sometimes it's, you know, trying to stop the loss of species so they don't become extinct. And it is incredible to be able to make those connections because despite the different species that we're working on and despite the different cultures that we're coming from, we have the same common ground because our goal is the same, that we want to help communities learn how to live with nature instead of working against her. And it's the only sustainable way that we can protect both the planet, these species and ourselves because we are so dependent on nature. And really don't. I think most people today don't understand.

[27:00] SIERRA LAVERTY: Just exactly, but the people that you're working with, you know, you're working with folks from Kenya to Australia, it's incredible. But they're the know, boots on the ground involved and so dedicated to these different animals because, I mean, your experience with wolves is a very personal one. And I know there's several moments you've talked about just your connection to them. I'd love for you to share one of those, but also share some of the moments that you've heard from the people, people that you've been working with in the coexistence network, too. Is there a parallel that you've seen those moments that are so special, those connection moments with animals?

[27:52] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: It seems to be universal, that there are people who have on our board of directors, Priya Darshani, who's this incredible musician, singer songwriter. And when she was only, I think, twelve or 14 years old and living in Mumbai and she was driving with her mom and noticed a crowd of people with, like, throwing rocks and stuff, couldn't see what they were throwing it at and made her mom pull over and stop. And she went over to the crowd and there was a jaguar that had wandered into town that was just terrified because of all the people chasing after it and they'd cornered it. And she put herself between the people and this beautiful animal and said, stop. We have to give him room to leave and, you know, let him to do so safely. He doesn't want to be here any more than, you know, then you want him to be here, right. He just wants to live, so stop and give him space. And she saved the life of that beautiful animal.

[29:04] SIERRA LAVERTY: The courage that it takes to do that, to be at both harm's way. I mean, in that moment, you don't know what a scared animal is going to do. But also the crowd throwing rocks, an angry mob.

[29:15] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: It's a lot of courage. Well, it just. It's part of, I guess with me, with wolves, it's gone so deep that I can go to areas and know whether they're there. I've howled with them in the background. Yeah.

[29:35] SIERRA LAVERTY: You've often predicted when we're about to see them, you said, and they're going to be here.

[29:40] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yeah.

[29:40] SIERRA LAVERTY: I don't know exactly when. And you've been right.

[29:45] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yeah. They just. It is such a strong connection that, you know, it's also hard to be connected to them when things are happening. Like what's happening in Idaho right now, where, you know, there's a bounty now which I never thought I would see in my lifetime. I mean, that's going back hundreds of years to the old wild west of brutality. And now they're even paying up to $2,500 for even newborn pups of, you know, wolves taken out of their den and killed and turned in for bounty. And so the state of Idaho just doesn't seem like it has the ability to be responsible for the wolves that was given, you know, restored here. They don't understand the value of them and they still believe that, you know, it's a mob mentality.

[30:44] SIERRA LAVERTY: Again, not there an easy scapegoat, but as someone who's actually seen, like, the last dying breaths of a wolf that was killed, that was poached, I mean, that's an experience that very few people have, but that connects you so deeply to them, that empathy. You can see that.

[31:09] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yeah. Yeah. So it makes it hard to be here. And I think it's probably where we live is the hardest, worst place in the world to be a wolf. And ironically, you know, that's where we are and we're doing everything we possibly can do to change that from, you know, I was in the white, at the White House a few weeks ago, Washington, DC, meeting with senators, bringing high.

[31:39] SIERRA LAVERTY: Schoolers with you and high schoolers with.

[31:41] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: You, which are the new voices.

[31:43] SIERRA LAVERTY: Yes.

[31:43] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yeah. And I am so thrilled to be able to help mentor that new generation because it is going to take everyone to ensure that we have a planet that is intact, because we are so close to losing, and this is the greatest extinction. And as you know, studying entomology now that we are losing species faster than any other time that humans have walked the planet.

[32:13] SIERRA LAVERTY: Be doing a talk on that in a couple of months. In this building, a biodiversity crisis is very scary, but it's also. It does also bring together so many great people. And that is the reason that, I mean, chose this degree that I'm working on, a degree in entomology masters. And I'm doing it largely because of you and the work that you've done, really, because I have been around conservation my whole life. From you, from my dad, and learning more about ecology and the importance of biodiversity, I learned that that is our ticket. You know, the more diverse species that we have on the planet, the better off that we are. The world. There's a quote from Eo Wilson, a great entomologist. I can't remember exactly paraphrasing, but basically, if humans disappeared, the earth would go back to a fairly normal state of being. But if insects disappeared, the entire planet would disrupt into chaos. They're the little things that run the world and the most diverse beings on the planet. So I do hope that. I think that they've largely been ignored in conservation for a long time. I mean, the monarch butterfly was just put on the endangered species. Listen, and it's incredible when an insect is. So I hope that the new environmental movement includes invertebrates, includes so much more. And I'm excited to. I guess I'm excited to be a part of that. And I feel like taking up the talisman in some ways, not quite what you had done. It'll be doing it in very different ways in urban areas. But I am doing it. I am doing it because of what you have done.

[34:15] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: And you will do it even better. Even better.

[34:18] SIERRA LAVERTY: Did you know that, though? Did you know that? That's why I decided on this degree?

[34:23] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Well, from the little girl that was saving grasshoppers and ladybugs.

[34:32] SIERRA LAVERTY: Sure. It's not surprising. Fair enough.

[34:36] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: Yeah. I'm not surprised. But I'm so proud of you.

[34:39] SIERRA LAVERTY: Thank you. Well, I'm proud to be your daughter. So that works out. Is there anything else you want to tell me that you haven't said to me? What is this question here?

[35:02] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: I think we actually just nailed it.

[35:04] SIERRA LAVERTY: Yeah.

[35:06] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: This was exactly the conversation I was hoping to have with you.

[35:10] SIERRA LAVERTY: Good. I'm glad.

[35:11] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: I cannot wait to see what you do. I know you're right at the beginning of all of this, and you're speaking. I mean, it's somewhat easier when it's fuzzy. Cute things that look like our dogs at home.

[35:26] SIERRA LAVERTY: You're right. Yes, that's true. It's easier to.

[35:28] SUZANNE ASHA STONE: They're beautiful and they inspire people. It's harder to get their attention on, you know, a prank on a beetle or a native bee or. I mean, when there's already some misconceptions there. So I can't wait to see what you do.

[35:46] SIERRA LAVERTY: Thank you. Yeah, that'll be an interesting part of it, for sure.