Sonja Livingston and Gregory Allison

00:01 I'm Sonja Livingston on 53 years. Old. Today is Thursday, July 1st 2021. I am calling in from Rochester, New York. I'm here with my friend, Greg Allison.

00:16 I and my hi, my name is Greg Gregory Gerard House in the whole thing. My age is 55 to turn last month calling in from Rochester, New York. And the name of my conversation partner is Sonya and she is one of my best friends. Since 1994 of July. I'm okay, great. Well, I know we both have an interest in memory. We're talking about two things we have in common. We both have written Memoirs. We both grew up Catholic and we both eat too much.

00:58 How would you if somebody asked you to summarize your childhood or your background in a sentence? How would you do that?

01:07 What? I feel like I kind of had to do that one. We have both published Memoir. So I, you know, you have to summarize, might go to tagline, is a gay Catholic, kid who grew up in the 1970s. I'm one of seven children from a single mom who grew up in various places in Western New York. In the common feature of all those places is that they were always the poorest, feel like we lived on an Indian reservation in a motel room and then ended up in Rochester where I am now,

01:48 Yeah, yours was better than mine. And you know, they started a diary and I wrote on the first page, the names of all my siblings and I exploded the bottom. This is. So my diary readers will know who I'm talking. So do you want me to?

02:16 This is this is something that I think about a lot because I teach writing and a big question for people is like when as a kid, but you could answer this. I do answer. Anyway. You want. When is the time that you felt like an outsider or like you didn't fit in?

02:38 I wish the baby. I was the youngest of six. Kids, three, boys and three girls. So I always felt like we were the Brady Bunch. Cuz those course the time and I'm Mr. Pop Culture. Definitely.

02:55 Why my hands down when I you know, when to adolescence and started to recognize that I had attractions to other boys in the class. Where is all the other boys were talking about the girls in bikinis for growing and things like that? And that's why I put a name on everything. At that point. I'm going to be all day.

03:31 I was thinking about when you were a kid and of course, I know Lisa. I'm just curious when you are kid. Who did you count on like, who the person you,. Damn your kitten and why, you know, it it's funny because like, you, I had a lot of TV fantasy people. I counted on, I mean, that they were has real lips, too strong women on TV and books, you know, like we talked about Nancy Drew. I love you a lot. And I think, because I was a kid who came from a family where there wasn't the adult was just really busy and didn't have a lot to give I counted on people from church. I counted on anybody. I like Mister Rogers. I counted on Mister Rogers to be this nice presents, but mainly and counted on my sister staff. Who is a year-and-a-half older? In very top. I was like the sensitive kid, and she was the one who would like beat up, anybody who mess with me or, you know, a lot.

04:31 It was a rough. We didn't always have food to eat for instance, and stuff was the one who would figure out like how to make a meal out of a few potatoes. And you know, some Crisco or something to Stephanie was a Lifeline for me, for sure. And I want I want to follow it up with now in today's world. Could you depend on learned to depend on myself which sounds a little sad and lonely and cold in Hawaii? I depend on you. I think. Yeah, I mean just there are depending on the situation. I know that that I have my go to people and their people that I know will be there for me. You're certainly one of them. Stephanie is still there. I mean, Stephanie is one of those people who's good in a crisis.

05:31 So are you. Anybody could call her, who, who do you count on both now and in your past?

05:41 I mean, so I'll start it now go backwards. Take my husband is Mike going to go to rock and sometimes I don't think I even recognized that from day today and work away from each other for a while or something happens and he's not available. I recognized and I also try to help myself and it's really important to you and don't take, don't take that for granted cuz it won't always be there for the hostage situation or one of them.

06:23 Most likely the lone man, standing at some point. And I think about that a lot. These days.

06:35 You're looking at their kids and I'm thinking man. We got to round up some tonight. Go back light years later and say we're going to visit nursing home. I mean, I love Steve Austin on Friday nights and I feel like my older brothers and sisters. I feel like I depend in the mall and I feel like an certain way. It allowed me to grow up.

07:18 Is always feeling Richard like even today. I feel like I don't have to worry about. I don't hate your life. People have anxiety about tomorrow. And I don't there's a fundamental part of tomorrow because I feel like I can always depend on what was then my siblings and what is now my extended family and friends the chosen for my life would have been without him, but I don't feel bad about Catholic and I love going to mass and stuff. But I never counted on God to me. God was just like if you can't see a person that they're not going to bring, I loved I love the comfort of the community of growing up in a titanosaur when we lived in in the inner city of Rochester.

08:18 But they weren't it. What? I'm thinking is I'm a little jealous that you say, you don't worry about tomorrow. You were so nurtured. I'm glad you had that. But I definitely has taken a lot of my life to come to the place where I tell myself, you don't have to worry about tomorrow. You're going to be okay, but that does come down to me believing that I can handle it. I can handle it or I can and it is still not going to change a whole lot. So most people go to therapy to get there. It's good that you had that. So what would you want to go back and tell your younger self?

08:59 Oh my goodness. I just I feel like I don't worry.

09:10 Because one of the things it's funny. So we, so I grew up without a father. There were there were seven kids from five different men and none of the fathers were ever around, and that was good cuz in our neighborhood, father spot, so I feel like I struggled with that clearly and I've talked about food and stuff. The thing I would tell myself is to lay off the sweets and take better care of your teeth cuz Dental in real life and I think it would be something.

09:44 And I'm going to answer that if you could go and do your time machine to go back and give yourself a gift, any age. It's like a physical object. You like, take this chair, like a gift for a birthday present. Probably, some sort of piece of jewelry or symbolic item that says, you are loved or like some symbolic bracelet or something like that. Psychological. If it were magical I would give myself. I once read a children's book about this man who is given by an Angel or somebody a cheese sandwich that whenever he did into it. It popped back into it was an endless.

10:44 If you don't have the people around, you you need something, whether it's magical or not. So what would you bring to yourself?

11:01 I mean, cuz I'm kind of computer geeky. I feel like

11:06 I would be, I mean, in Science, Fiction, guy would be like, give him an iPhone and I would have fun with that and I would teach you how to use it or what to do with it. I would also explain that it was from the future so he couldn't tell anybody, you know that I think more bucks. I saw the detective stories that Hardware also love. Nancy through, my big thing was the Three Investigators and I actually, you know, I do everything I can, I come torn between two questions. One is but the related. So my question is given the challenges and joys of your past. What do you bring from that?

12:06 What do you bring like, I mentioned having bad teeth or whatever. What challenge do you have as a result of your background in the way that you grew up, and what Joy? Even if it didn't feel like, enjoy the time, okay.

12:21 The Joy from my background is,

12:26 The I hate to get them some stuff but like I had to work through them in there. I the joy of that I think there is still a joy. I have six siblings and we don't you know, we've had some bumps along the way but we don't hear stories of people that have abused and their families and things like that and we really didn't have that. We really can count on each other and stick together in a way that feels Brady bunch of shit to me. So I like that the Catholic thing I think.

13:04 Getting over the

13:08 The fact that somebody some other in this case, God or his representative God, the institution that I learned of the Catholic Church.

13:17 Telling me how I had to, I should live my life. That was such a nightmare struggle for me for over four years. And so, to be on the other side of that to have to release myself from that burden and accepted that I get to choose what I should be in life. And what I want to be in my life is okay, in a circle, circle something similar back to you, okay?

13:52 I wanted to ask but this time, what would you like to tell you some twenty years from now?

14:02 Dear living, I am with Jim on this. Maine coast in a nice little cottage and there's flowers all around.

14:14 Really? I think that I hope I that time I am just even, my goal is to just become more and more comfortable with myself and my place in the world, to be honest to connect with people. I mean, I don't at the boring answer but that's kind of act. Like I don't have anything. I would really. I don't I'm not sure what I could tell myself, but because you asked that question. Maybe you want to be at that.

14:36 I just don't know how k.

14:44 But something about processing, let's talk about what who are we talking to them that you and I do we love to do a processing. And what does that mean? Stupidest thing? And spend three hours, literally add to list code word. So we can say we both went in and sent her a friend request, and she didn't respond didn't respond, didn't respond. So then it became a

15:44 Ms. Ever befriend her and I ended up having a friend who was a friend of hers. So I tried to get in the door that way.

15:55 Walmart.

16:02 Look at, is there anything that you actually wonder about or do we process so much that we already know too much? Like what are your dreams before you die? What would you like to accomplish before you die? Like you said, what am I doing?

16:31 I'm like, yeah.

16:43 Michael Buble that he stole my stuff and singing I always wanted a family. So I feel a little bit. I'm going to go down this Crystal Road here, but I feel sad that I never procreated and I know you know this but I told you when I was 49, I'm like I'm never going to have a baby. So I tried to convince his room back. There will be a little guy got there somewhere and we don't want your Spurs. So that's, that's not a dream that you have anymore or you see? I let it go which is the last Runway. Come on a night, like that.

17:35 I am able to say, okay. I have you 10 things cuz I had like 10 things that if anybody can do something after learning to play my grandma, my dad's piano that I inherited. But the thing is, I don't

18:12 I don't know if I have dreams and what I'm realizing is that whether they're impossible or not. It's really cool to have them cuz it's fun to give you something to think about. My latest dream is to write an open letter to Pope. Francis saying, I want to be, I want to be a deacon, and to tell him that I would like to give him some personal details. My favorite flavor ice cream, all bad. And then just say, can you really say that? I shouldn't be a deacon at church? Just cuz I know when a woman and I don't know, Pope Francis, but somehow that's the crazy dream that my letter will sway him. So what's your what's your imagined? Best case scenario? Lighter back from them?

18:53 Well, then I guess.

19:02 Before it was all theoretical. But now I see that you're a human being too, and you have a right to this. But the reality is the best thing I've got would be just like a letter signed by him, but Kelly, written by some clerk in letter to Pope Francis because I'm not super religious. But it but I love I love going to church a lot of the community there. But I I do sometimes resent. I look up and I see all those men and I'm like, well, I respect them, but they're not better than anybody else. In fact, sometimes they're really lousy creatures and their women sitting right there could be telling them. They said this is nothing new but it's just this thing that I continue to try to figure out how I just looked and I saw one of the things I was going

20:02 Is it Saint Michael School in Newark, when I was in 5th grade and Catholic school? And we were supposed to be a girl named Patty. Caesar was in sixth. Grade came to join our school and she was Jets, Reba palsy. So she was kind of large just physically. I'm like, taller and stouter than most of the kids. And she really struggled to walk them how I was like oh, and they are her parents and sent her to st. Michael's because she had been mocked and made fun of in public school, and I don't know if I knew that.

20:51 So one day she is walking down the hall and Danny Torres who is also a sixth grader, tripped her and she smashed on the floor and dropped all her books and I was so mortified by that. I was like, why can't we be better? This was supposed to place where she can come and be accepted and she ended up not coming there. That is that's like a memory that if I feel like I need to get in touch emotionally with stuff that that might fit something, I try to think of it.

21:28 How many things we have to lose?

21:38 Do you want me to say a painful memory? That I've learned some?

21:42 A painful memory.

21:46 We can talk about more than we think we are addicts.

21:51 Sure, let's go with that. Oh, no, I didn't want to pay for me. The most painful memories have been. It's it's tough cuz I think I think I have a lot of painful memories. Not that I have more pain than anybody else, but that's what I hold onto. But I will say, one of my regrets is is not a childhood memory. But when I was younger woman and I was a school counselor at that point and during a fire drill, the gym teacher, you have to call them PE teachers. Are they got really pissy? But the size fry color it since I was with my friends and I said something, it's a funny cuz I'm talking about this as working in high school, but when you were going to high school, you learn that the people working. There are a lot like the high school or so. I wasn't my group of friends and we might have looked dirty at her group of friends or something, but she came

22:46 Your friend. I don't know who they were. They're just people that I liked and then she was with her people. And this is what really happens during fire. Drill is not like when I'm 12, I probably like, 30 and Ice. I forgot, I said, I tried to be tough, but the bottom line is she was challenging me. And instead of saying, I don't know if I can swear. I'm sorry car, but instead of just a visit a part of my face or standing up for myself, back down. I just said, nothing nobody or whatever. And one of my big regret is that I did not stand up for myself. So I think of you a lot of painful memories like oh it's embarrassing to get food, baskets are all this other stuff, put those bright things in my control. The things that stay with me or this decisions that I made, or didn't make that I could have made. Like, why did I just say, get out of my face? And it seems really small but I think it's that standing up for myself for speaking up when somebody's, you know, so they're abusing Tower. I guess that I wish I was.

23:46 I think of it and cringe, I'd like to track her down.

23:53 Maybe so. I was like an external thing with that. It went to the Star Wars premiere with a friend weed, like four friends.

24:27 After the movie, one of the friends who were really pretty, what I would consider very, I want to label people but like, democratic-leaning liberal like he had brought these little stickers and up people that said resist and it was like a trump website was resist. Trump was what kind of a joke but kind of in the theme of The Resistance from the Star Wars and my friends from high school was there who I know was supportive of trump. So I hate was struck. I really struggled with it, takes me by surprise and I'm really bad when stuff happens quickly and then I'm really good later when I think about it in the movie loving Star Wars, talking about Star Wars and all the sudden. He's giving you this resist. Trump sticker.

25:27 Don't give her one. He's like What She Likes Trump and he

25:34 Got in her face and was literally in the lobby at the movie theater saying, how can you have great friends and do this? And how do, you know it was loud? And I was so shocked, and I was, I, I, I, I stood there and didn't say much, I sort of intervene a little bit but the pain part here is that I regret that I didn't hear me more. And I think on her, even though I don't necessarily aligned with her views either politically, or where I appreciate it, but I didn't defend my friend against a bullying incident. And I found that I thought that if 53 years old, I would be more open to that or be smarter about doing that. So I feel like, okay, at least I learn next time that happened. I got to remember.

26:25 So that's a question, what else? Cuz I also look at people remember being a young person in thinking will surely by the timer on that age. I'll have this figured out, or surely, these people are not worried about this. What else did you think that you would have figured out in your 50s?

26:47 I think I thought that 50 would be.

26:57 And I think it's actually still going to happen. That's a sane. People say that in your sixties and seventies. You come to exceptions peaceful if they'll have time and I think I still feeling my music and I still don't know.

27:17 As much as I thought, I would know by this time. I thought I would be the wiser. Older guy. When you get older you just get wiser, but I've run into some people in their 60s and 70s who I think are immature and embarrassing.

27:30 So it's not necessarily you get old and you know, everything, you know, I can go into a room in and with a generation span of people and some of the wiser people are people that I might be of a lower age. It does not equate with, you know, this Guru, wisdom about how wonderful life is now that I'm glad Unit 13 time or if your friend. Yeah. I mean, I do feel myself even though it's lower. I guess I am still in progress. That's how it was when I was younger. I saw older people as sort of static like they were either good or bad.

28:30 Annoying or wise, but they were just be static, kind of and I still feel I feel as confused as ever. However, there is some real wisdom that comes with understanding that. It's kind of a human condition to be confused. That's kind of The Human Condition to feel insecure or two still like right now. And I just shared that memory of want me to like track down at gym teacher.

29:00 He totally did, he Jared. But yeah, so both that there is some real Humanity. That doesn't change. We have it a different perspective. But we said this earlier, could we do not have children? I think my friends who have children and most of them do.

29:21 They know different music than I do. They have a whole different perspective. There, the parent have to be the boss or the older. Yeah, I think not having children means that you don't have your never the one who has to. I noticed that when I used to babysit all my nieces and nephews, I would suddenly have to not care about my hair when I look like or anything, it was all about them. And I was sort of horrified or something. I'm like, but there is a real learning in that that it isn't all about you. And I don't necessarily think that we're in the same way, but I think we've also learned another ways. I think you find ways to learn that with your friendships or whatever it is.

30:08 I think we should look at our list. I want to ask you a question, but I'm so solid right now in Media.

30:13 What are you afraid of like, are you afraid of anything? I am afraid of centipedes. I'm afraid of a lot of different things. What are you afraid of that? I can at least be in the same room with them.

30:31 I am afraid of, I see my older brother who has arthritis and he's in a wheelchair. Now. I see my sister who has breast cancer and I am

30:44 So, I'm afraid of, I'm afraid of declining Health that I can't be me anymore in some way. Like, if I have a stroke and I'll send. I'm stuck inside my head. I have a fun time cuz I am thoroughly entertained myself.

31:01 I mean I would have never put on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I'm nice. I mean all tonight. We probably all up. I lost control coz I'm a planner. So to have all those things loose, lots of Independence.

31:30 You know, I also had a mom who lived 81 in cancer, took her out in, like, six months, but prior to that she was so happy. She didn't want to live in a nursing home. She didn't have any of that. So I would maybe I'll go that way and then again, I don't know. What about you. You said some things that what I fear most is not necessarily illness, although, that's that's certainly their butt paste because I teach and I feel myself when my students say, things kind of becoming a little clothes, like what do they know? They have no sense. They they, they're on their phone. Whatever it is. I feel myself, becoming that person who used to dismiss me.

32:30 And I worry about that. Like I don't want to be so caught up in the way things were for me that I'm not open to people. I really want to remain open but I it's funny. I see the challenge in that because the truth is it's easy to glom onto like you or decade by covid-19 80's. Music was so good. To see if what they do. I have to say, I am really glad we need to go out for the day. You can't get your mom and to take my dog to go down by the creek and imagine an island where I am strapped like Gilligan's Island or something. And not be in constant touch text or not have a video game when I get home, but actually, a Stephen King book or just head down time, and I'm glad

33:30 Because they will be the cool.

33:36 I want to be like, I don't want to shut down their experience of their. You said, video game, whatever it is, because to them, that's their. But grandmother said there's a, I think we should look at our list and do it,. Okay. Okay, and that was from an underground tunnel on my current farm and there was a cave paintings in there and there was actually a living caveman down there and he takes my friend hostage.

34:36 Saving rescue my friend Dennis and saving his life and then meetings that are like his historical from back in ancient. New York Times. My family always have, we discovered some secrets of our ancestors? That's cool. You always have a good sense of yourself as the hero.

35:10 I'm good. I don't think I would have ever written a book where I'm like, the hero I would have been looking for somebody to come save me, but you have a good.

35:20 Like pawns that were really terrible about, you know, the dead cat in the back lot. I think I was just trying to like, get through and share my emotions. Be a writing but I didn't write when I was a kid like that. I mean, I liked it. Okay, but I didn't do that. We told stories staff and I would tell stories. But yeah, I love that. You have that.

35:50 Letting you on your list. I know. I don't know about rejecting process. I know. I know what we could do a process thing or we could do one last question here.

36:17 You can have one of the superpowers of the superheroes by you. What would the superpower of choice be?

36:26 You get one power from one superhero from like a 1970s. Okay. This is a good example of how a process. When we take long trips. We ask each other questions and we don't get bored of them. Like I said, I would totally have Wonder Woman's truth lasts out. So I could tell him. People were lying to me, that be really important. I like in disabilities. I don't know if you're going to go, let Erica, you're asking me a supernatural.

36:57 Supernatural powers. Super powers from a superhero.

37:06 I want to fly. I think Superman's ability to fly with us. He's cute.

37:17 Yeah, it would be so cool to fly. And you know, what time does I had a dream one night where I was flying around and it was the coolest experience and I still remember how fun it was. Feel like a sloping around and over the trees and just hanging out and the freedom of it and the breeze and I only have like four or five of my life and stuff, but it's just like the dream is that I'm flying usually / 392.

38:17 Flying is the thought to myself like hey, you're flying. And then I think once I have the subs awareness and I'm flying, it's over. I don't know what that really means.

38:28 Last word. So we're wrapping up here, but I want to say, if we're doing something. I'm going to get a seat for. Magical one for each other. If you could do a magical wish for me, what would you? What would you get to me? And I would give you long life and a magic wand long life and the ability to look like Superman ever read? Okay, how about you mean, quickly serious, but I want to give you. I would love for you to

39:02 Experience that I think you're really sensitive to other people. And I think that preys on how you live your life and you often are, are looking out for other people. I want a magic wand you. So that you have the Comfort to recognize and realize your own needs psychological. No, it's fine. It's fine. In part of me is okay with that. I don't like it that I worry about like my family members, but, you know, they really are in danger sometime. So I would take that magic gift from you, but I would also want to keep just a little bit. Let me know. I think a little extra cookie always half of it.

39:53 No, there's no cookie. I would only ever you to have a

40:02 Thank you, little bit like my diary.

40:09 Thank you. I appreciate your friendship.

40:13 Oh my God.