Standing Silent on a Bridge

00:01 All right, it's recording. That's lovely. So we're gonna begin with saying our names. So I am lux hedges. I'm 14 years old. Today is December 7th. December 7th, 2022. Today I'm interviewing my mother, Angela Hedges. She's.

00:27 I am Angela hedges. I am 48 years old.

00:31 And we are recording this interview in the Santa Cruz mountains of California. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Santa Cruz mountains of California.

00:43 Los Gatos, California. Redwood Estates community.

00:47 All right, so can you tell me about, like, just like how it was for you growing up? Just like, like not like a super in detailed thing, but just like a basic scenario?

01:02 Well, that's a very broad question, but I can say growing up, I grew up in San Mateo. We lived in the same house from when I was born, from when Vivon Viveau, your grandparents, got married until I was 17 years old, senior in high school. We moved to just a different part of San Mateo.

01:24 So Coco, that's our dog. Is that the house that they still live in today?

01:30 Yes, and that's the house they still live in. So, so very. My childhood was very stable. There wasn't a lot of upheaval and talking to a lot of people. I know that they had a lot of moves or divorces, a lot of, you know, financial problems or big dramas. And really, I really was so fortunate that to have just none of that. Vivan Vavu created a very stable, a very safe, a very steady home life for us. You know, we did not have a lot of money, but, you know, they saved. They always had money to spare for things that we needed. They just didn't spend any extra. They saved really well. They worked really hard. One thing that I'll say along those lines, too, is that they really emphasized our education. They really didn't want us working. We didn't do a lot of extra things for them. The most important thing was to get a good education. And they didn't push and push and push us for grades. They just wanted us to know that we were doing our best. And in terms of the neighborhood, when I grew up, there were tons of kids in my neighborhood. And we used to just play outside every day until the streetlights came on. But then as we got older, the families all sort of moved away. We were really the last family with kids in the neighborhood. Everyone moved away. And then people with younger kids came in. And so because we went to Catholic school, we weren't in our local area school, so our friends weren't close by. And I didn't have that many Friends. I was kind of a dorky kid, and I always felt like nobody really liked me and that I was different or weird. So I was really. When I was a kid, I had a really happy life in a lot of ways, but I always felt like a misfit. I always felt like I was out of place, that I was unpopular, that I wasn't liked. So I kind of kept to myself. I was very quiet when I was a kid.

03:35 Can you tell me about someone from your childhood or otherwise that you always remember who wasn't, like, a super, super close family member? Of course, you mostly remember your family members.

03:44 Mm. What do you mean? Like an adult or anyone.

03:48 An adult or a kid that could be an adult now, but a kid back then or whatever.

03:52 What is the. I guess I want to know, like, just someone that I remember.

03:56 Yeah, someone. Someone that you remember that maybe did something that really, really stood out to you that you don't. You don't think you'll ever forget.

04:02 Yeah. So my second grade teacher was named Ms. Enyart, and she really encouraged me to write. Would I write a poem or something to this nature? And she just always encouraged me to write. And even from that young age, and she took a real interest in me in the way that no other teacher and no one else really seemed to take. Vivain Vavaux were proud that I was good in school, that I got A's and B's, but they never took a particular interest in the things I was doing. And she was really the one. I felt very special that she pointed out that I was really talented at writing and that she encouraged me to enter a poetry contest. And she just. It felt so great to have someone to Someone notice and encourage, and I never forgot that.

05:01 All right, can you tell me about one of your most difficult memories, childhood or otherwise?

05:12 H. Yeah, I really. It really was a misfit. So at a Catholic school, it's first grade through eighth, first grade through eighth grade. So kind of who you are by, like, second or third grade socially is kind of who you are all through the rest of your school. So normally you switch schools at middle school and you kind of have a chance to reinvent yourself or find new friends and there's new people. That doesn't happen when you're just in the same class all that way through. And so kind of a real painful memory is just feeling always like I was being made fun of, just feeling like I was always, always teased. I always felt. I don't know. So I can't think of A particular incident, it's sort of all just a blur, but just the idea that I always felt, oh, actually can't think of one. So that there were only. There were only a few girls. There was like 12 girls in our class, and like, six of them were kind of popular girls. And then six of us were unpopular, and the popular girls all stuck together and unpopular girls. We were constantly changing friends, not talking. And I remember there was one time where all the girls just sort of. No one was my friend. My friend kicked me out of the group that we were in, of the three of us. And so I just remember being all alone and just how sad I felt. And I ended up going to the library, like, oh, I can go to the library and read, but. But I just ended up staring at the bookshelves, like, just for something to do, to not be embarrassed about the fact that literally no one wanted to play with me, no one wanted to be with me. And I just remember feeling like. And this was probably like third or fourth grade and just feeling like just absolutely unlovable, feeling like I didn't understand what was wrong with me, that no one wanted to hang around me. What was so terrible that no one wanted to be my friend, you know? And it took years and years to kind of realize that it had nothing to do with me. It really just said more about the dynamic in the class, that. More about the personality of those girls, because I would never have kicked someone out of a group. But I was very part of. The reason I just didn't talk a lot and was very. Everyone thought I was shy was just because I tried to put as little out there as possible to be as boring as possible so no one could make fun of me.

07:41 Has your life been different than when. Than you imagined, like when you were younger?

07:47 Yes. Yes and no. You know, definitely. I don't think I would have imagined that I would be as socially outgoing as I am now. I think people have a hard time believing that I didn't have many friends even through high school, that I was quiet and that I was sort of the wallflower type. That's definitely different from how my life was then. But at the same time, I always knew that this wasn't really my personality, that being quiet and shy and hiding myself wasn't my true personality. And this is definitely the life that I have, is definitely the life I wanted. I saw myself having family, having kids, living in a house, being independent, making money, good job that I enjoyed. And a lot of that has come. Has come to pass. I definitely have some things I wish I had done and still wish I will do, like doing more writing. From that early age, I thought, oh, I'm going to be a writer. And I let the idea that I needed a real job sort of stand in the way of that. And to some degree I still do. But, you know, really, this is the life. This is the life that I hoped I would have, and I have it and I'm really happy.

09:05 Follow up question to that. Do you think. How surprised do you think if you met. If someone who knew you only in that. Only in those couple years at the Catholic school saw you now, do you think they would even consider that you were the same person?

09:21 I actually did have an incident where that came true. Definitely. The way that I live my life, I think there's nothing surprising about it. It's, you know, it's a fairly normal life. So. But I did. There was a little reunion about, about 10 years ago with that class. We all got together at a. At a bar in downtown San Mateo. And I was just talking with everyone and chatting, and when it came down to it, this one guy, Kevin, looked at me, staring at me, like, so oddly. And he's like, you did not talk this much when you were at St. Greg's and I'm like, oh, absolutely not. And he was just like. Like I was a different person. Like, he did not recognize I looked the same. People said I look just the same. But. But he. He's the only one who commented on how different my personality was. And so that was kind of. But that was really in a positive way, you know, he was like, hey, you know.

10:23 Do you have any regrets, like, of. I might bring this question back a couple of times, but for like, school wise, do you have any regrets, like, my young school days from any time, let's just say from the cap. From the cap. From any of the years of the Catholic school, do you think.

10:40 All my years in Catholic school, I even went to Catholic college. But yet from my younger years, um, definitely. I think one of my regrets, you know, from that time, and this is. You're not talking about school, but just like the social. The school age, right?

10:57 Yeah, like, yeah. Do you have any regrets? Maybe. Well, from, like, from any aspect of your life, including maybe even including academics from first grade to eighth grade, specifically.

11:07 I can think of one in particular, and this is something. I was always very ashamed of that when I was in either first or second grade, I was friends with a boy in my class named Michael. And we loved talking and Hanging out. And we were good friends. And then my friend Amber started basically making fun of me and saying that I liked him and teasing me and saying that he was my boyfriend and basically saying, if that's not true, then you shouldn't talk to him anymore and you should be mean to him. And I was so afraid of people making fun of me that I basically stopped talking to Michael. I let kind of peer pressure and that worry about what other people thought of me stop me from being friends with a person I really, really, really enjoyed. I ran into Michael at the reunion as well, and he was just as nice as he was then. He never, you know, he never. He never resented me or anything. He was just, you know, and I. And I. And I look back and I'm like, what it would have meant to have a friend like that. But, you know, back then, boys and girls weren't supposed to be friends and. And you know, it. I especially am embarrassed because Tia Lilly is so opposite of that. She absolutely. When that same sort of thing happened to her when she had a friend and everyone was like, oh, is he your boyfriend? And she just stood up like, no, like. And they would make fun of him because he was on the autistic spectrum and she would just defend him. And she just had a courage of her convictions of doing what is right, not caring about what other people thought. And I did not. You know, I've had to develop that over the years, and it still sometimes is a struggle. I still worry about what other people think of me rather than standing up. You know, now I stand up for other people. I still don't often enough stand up for myself. So that's a big regret that I had. I wish I'd been the kind of person who. Who didn't care what other people thought. Who. Who was brave enough to stand up to peer pressure and being made fun of and not care.

13:12 Is there anything that you've never told me before, but want to tell me now?

13:19 About what?

13:20 Anything is there. Is there anything. Is there. Is there anything about my life that maybe you haven't told me? Not necessarily just like, oh, about your life. Anything throughout my life that maybe impacts me in one way or another. Not necessarily like, directly impacts me, but might even just minorly impact me? Not necessarily that you forgot to tell me, but that you've kept from me that you would want to tell me now?

13:48 There's definitely nothing I've kept from you like a secret. I'm sure there's plenty of things I haven't told you. A lot of times, I think more often than not, it's that we don't realize that we haven't said it, that. That we don't realize it's important or that would be interesting to you. You know, I think there's a lot of things you don't know. Like I was editor of my high school newspaper or that I. I don't know. Like, things like that. You know, things that you. That you. That you don't know that I did.

14:30 I was. I was thinking. No, I was thinking more of like. You know the song Home by Edward Sharp?

14:36 Yeah.

14:37 Where she's like. He's like. He's like. And I never told you something about that. Like that.

14:42 Oh, that kind of thing.

14:43 That kind of thing.

14:43 Something that I never think about that.

14:47 Like that you didn't mean to keep as a secret forever.

14:50 But I just never. Yeah.

14:52 Withheld it circumstantially.

14:59 You know. And. I don't know, maybe you do know this, but how utterly delightful you were as a child. The way that you spoke and thought about things and logically put things together from the age of two, even the way you would play with words, the way that you approach the world was so unique and so creative. And I think in particular, the way that you. I mean, from the earliest age, it was always princess dresses. You loved dress up and you never wanted to dress up like a boy.

15:36 Gay stereotype.

15:37 Yes, Gay stereotype. But. And it was this thing of even as you got older, you know, you're no longer two and three now. You're four or five now when you lived here. And. And I think that there was that. That pirate and princess party that. Violet. Have we moved when you were four?

15:54 Three.

15:54 Three. Well, just about three. No, no, you would have been four. Oh, you're right. Three and a half. You turned four.

16:00 Adele hadn't turned two yet.

16:02 You're right. You're right. But, like, I think you were about five. You were already at Pre, at Tree House. Violet had that pirate and princess party down at the park. And you definitely were like, no doubt you're gonna dress like a princess, not like a pirate. And. And you never lost that meaning that at no point did the world's judgment or expectation deter you from dressing exactly the way you wanted. And you're still like that in a lot of ways, which can sometimes be frustrating because what I need you to do or want you to do isn't what you do. But again, it's back to that same thing of, like, I never would have had the guts to do what I wanted to. You know, there was a outfit that I had that I loved, and I would wear it every time we didn't have to wear a uniform. They called it free dress. And whenever it was a free dress day, I would wear this outfit because it was my favorite and everyone made fun of me. And so, like, you just wear that outfit. Is that the only outfit you own? And. And I was like, well, no, it's my favorite outfit. So I wear it whenever I get the chance. And so then I stopped wearing it, even though it was my favorite outfit, because everyone teased me and made fun of me. I don't think you would do that. I think you would just do what you didn't care. This was something you liked. And, and how much I admire that. I don't know if you know that, how much I admire that. It's very courageous to live your life that way and it sets you up for. For success because I think, you know, it's not a thing of. I don't care what other people think. I'm going to do it. And it's something that annoys or bothers other people. But it's the idea of, what does it matter what you wear? It's not as if you're being rude to someone or impacting their life. You're just living your life on your way. And that's really admirable. And I don't know that you know how much that means to me to see you live your life so honestly.

17:56 So here's. I would like to add on to that. Okay. I actually sort of disagree with you on the thought that I would be so very different from you because definitely growing up, growing up now, like, the thing is, kids don't really comment on my outfits other than to compliment it, like, when I wear certain things. But, like, I'm sure that if I grew up during your time, I would have been even more severely bullied than you were or even, or even just ignored than you were.

18:29 Yes. Oh, definitely. Definitely. You would have had a much different experience growing up in my time. And, and, and I. And it's true. I don't know if you would have been able to withstand the. The what would have been essentially abuse. I mean, because it's. Eventually you would have gotten beaten up. You know, these things would have happened. But, you know, but for me, thinking about it, it wasn't like anyone did anything to me. They literally just teased me a little bit, not a lot. It wasn't like it was merciless. I just. I just was so afraid of being an outsider, which is what I already was, that I. That I hid myself.

19:15 Are there things about me that you want to know but you've never asked me?

19:27 That's a hard one. I don't know.

19:34 How about we start with. Is there anything that you feel you don't know about me?

19:37 Yeah, like, I don't know your friends that well. I don't know, like, your romantic interests. And. And there's a part of me that.

19:46 My romantic life just doesn't exist.

19:48 It doesn't exist.

19:49 Okay.

19:49 So that's the thing, is that I don't. You know, it's a weird question because those are definitely things I don't know that I am curious about. But at the same time, it's not like I'm. I've always wanted to ask you, but never did. It's more like I. I don't know that I need to know that much about it. I feel like we have a pretty open relationship. Like, if I was curious about something, I would ask you and whether or not you tell me the truth. But I don't think that there really are a whole lot of things that I wish I knew about you. I mean, I definitely think. I definitely wish I understood your thought processes and your, like, personality better. You know, we have this discussion a lot about your. You. You have a personality that's very similar to your father's. And so there's a lot I don't get about it, and there's a lot that frustrates me because I tap into that sort of mode. But, you know, I do spend a lot of time thinking about how your approach to things is different than mine and that mine isn't better, and my lack of understanding isn't necessarily something you're in charge of. But I feel like.

20:55 I don't know.

20:55 I feel like we do a pretty good job. I pretty much ask you things. Maybe I should ask you more. You know, I don't ask you how you feel about things like our divorce or the current situation or how your social life is at school. Are you feeling, you know, like a misfit? Are you feeling like you're. You've got friends and all these sorts of things, and. And I suppose I should ask you more of that. But I also. I feel like I have a good sense of it and that I. I don't need to. I don't need to know every single detail of your life, and I don't need to be involved in every detail of your life. Because you're growing into. To be your own adult, you know, and that I'm. I am very interested and curious, and I want to be a part of your life, but I'm also very conscious of not wanting my interest and involvement to overshadow you developing on your own in a way that will have to develop eventually without me being involved.

21:53 Okay, so now we will get to the part that will probably be a little bit more difficult to talk about, as I know this was an experience that definitely had its effect on you. So I don't know when it was. It was during. During, like, during pandemic. During the middle of the pandemic, but not.

22:16 It was October 2020.

22:18 So it wasn't. It was like summer. It wasn't. We weren't spring 2020, where everyone was just stuck in their houses, couldn't go out except for, like, groceries and doctor's appointments and stuff, but we were wearing.

22:31 Masks every day, I'm saying, but.

22:32 And it wasn't summer where we were, like, starting to, like, sort of not wear masks again, but everyone was still really confused. October came, so everyone. We were wearing masks again, but we weren't. We weren't like, we weren't just ever. We weren't just sitting in our houses. We were. Things were starting to open back up a little bit. Like, I think restaurants had started to open up at, like, the, like, the tiny capacity and things like that, and, like, restaurants take out whatever. So I wasn't there. I remember actually asking whether or not I was gonna go, and you said no. So can you just explain first, like, what happened there?

23:16 Okay, so I'll start kind of at the beginning. What happened? Trump was running for office, and. No.

23:30 He was already in office, but it was October, so he was definitely running for campaign because.

23:36 Yes, he was running for reelection. Sorry. For reelection. He was running for reelection. And every Saturday morning, there was a group of Trump supporters that would gather on the freeway overpass at Bear Creek with their signs and do a little rally. And. And it bothered a lot of people. I mean, we're in a very liberal area. That's the path from Santa Cruz, which is like the most liberal place in this. In the. In the South Bay, for sure. Probably Maybe even the greater Bay Area, except for Berkeley, it's pretty liberal. And so it bothered a lot of people. It was a small group up there, but they were really outsized in their. In their protests. And that group had been harassing local businesses who wouldn't support Trump. And it was just a. You know, it was an unpleasant thing up there. But, you know, it's a free country. People are allowed to gather, so whatever. Well, this was one Saturday, it was Unity Day. And so a group of high school students had completely covered the freeway overpass with all of these amazing signs with, you know, unity. Black Lives Matter. Ruth Bader Ginsburg had just passed away. There were all these RGB stickers or signs. There were Science is Real. There was, you know, LGBTQ rights, like Love is Love. It was just. Was this amazing counterpoint to the kind of the, you know, patriotic Us is best Republican Trump supporting that was up there. And Lisa had gone. She could see it from her house. And she stopped by as they were putting up the signs, and they said, oh, yeah, we're just doing this. And she sent a message out to all of us to say, hey, this is. You know, these. These kids are out here, and I'm going to come later with my kids and stand and support them. And does anyone want to join? And a few of us did. And I actually posted it on the local. On the local forum. Yeah. And to kind of say, hey, this amazing thing's happening as a few of us are going out there if you want to stand in support. And we really thought, you know, I knew that the Trump supporters would not be happy that we were there, but I did not expect what happened. And so what happened was it became very quickly that apparent that as more and more Trump supporters arrived, at first they just sort of came up to us and tried talking to us. But as more and more showed up, they became more and more aggressive to the point that Lisa had to take her kids away. The high schoolers ended up leaving. They were gonna. Planning on coming back later. You know, I have a hard time talking about this because it was so. It was such a devastating experience. But we just stood there. I had a. I had a flag with an earth on it that I was holding. And they just came up to us over and over again in waves. And there was everything from people praying over us because we were such sinners. You know, all we were doing was standing there. We weren't chanting, we weren't saying anything. We were just standing in front of these signs, people with megaphones talking in our faces, people telling us a big thing is everyone's just saying, you guys are Democrats, you're pedophiles, you're child molesters, your kids should be taken away from you, literally, because we were Democrats. And it just got more and more to the point where they would make fun of us. For our masks. They started pushing our stuff over. They started slowly sort of tearing down our signs. They were trying to engage us. They were trying to talk to us, get our names, get our information. They started blowing smoke in our face. And we were wearing masks. None of them were. And the pandemic is a hoax and blowing smoke in our face. And as the time wore on, they just got more and more aggressive, walking up to us, invading our body space, sort of pushing us away. And then eventually sort of like slowly tearing down our signs and. And there was four of us moms up on the bridge. And we just stopped engaging with them. We just stopped talking to them entirely because they were just, I mean it was just a. It started to be just this barrage of hate, just yelling, calling us sluts, calling us, just everything, every name under the book. I mean, we literally weren't doing anything but standing there saying, why are you here? We are here all the time. Why are you here? You could stand anyway. Why are you here? And I remember I did say to them, this is where I live. And this idea that I didn't want to leave that bridge in fear and that. So we talked and we decided, well, we're just going to stay and protect the signs. Eventually they just. This one guy had told me, no, we're not going to do anything. I don't believe in vandalism. Then eventually he came over. Half hour later we changed our minds and they had all had talked and they all came over in a big group and just tore down all our signs. And at that point we were like, we're just gonna stand here. And we just picked up the torn up signs and like stood and held them like shields and just stood up on that bridge and just decided we weren't, we weren't gonna go. And then at that point they started knocking over my speaker. They started sort of shoving us, spitting on us. And I called the sheriff and said, hey. And they also were blocking cars as cars were driving by. If they gave them a thumbs up, they would cheer. But if they gave them a thumbs down or flipped them off, they would actually block their cars, throw water bottles at their cars. So they were actually blocking traffic. They were blocking traffic of anyone who didn't support them. So I called the Sheriff, I called 911 and I got transferred to the sheriff. And the sheriff basically said, well, if you come off the bridge and talk to me, you know, we'll talk. Come out once you meet me off the bridge and we'll talk. And then I kind of just Realized, like, oh, I'm the enemy here. Like, it doesn't matter that I'm just standing here doing exactly what they're doing. I'm the enemy. And that he wants me off this bridge. And it occurred to me in that instant that if, you know, here I am, a white woman, you know, if I go off that bridge, he's just going to tell me to get in my van and drive home. That's it. But if I was a person of color, if I was someone trans, if I was, I. You know, I might end up in the back of that car, or I might end up dead if I resisted, if I had the gall to not to refuse, if I tried to go back on that bridge, which was my right. And it. And it kind of was this idea, like, I need to stay up here. I need to stay up here for all the people that can't. So it got to the point where a couple people decided they were going to join us up on the bridge. And I kept telling them, do not come up here. One guy came up, and immediately the crowd. When someone new would come, the crowd would descend on them like a mob. And to the point where people would just literally run away. And then the worst thing that happened was in the afternoon, a group of kids came up, friends of the original first kids, group of four high schoolers. And when they showed up, I mean, it was like a mob. Every person on that bridge just surrounded them and screaming at them. Queer, fag, whore, slut, liberal. I mean, just the barrage to the point where they were pressed up against the fence. So, you know, that keeps you from going over the bridge. And the four of us moms with our broken, torn cardboard signs that we were holding up, like barriers, like shields, standing in front of them while they just turned and looked. And we just stood there and told them, just don't say anything. And for 10 minutes it was this trying to scream at them, trying to get them, trying to provoke them. And in the end, they just slowly, one by one, left. And then occasionally they just come by and yell, horror, slut. Or videotape one of these trying to talk to one of the girls and. And videotaping her chest. And it was just like, you need to get away from here. Please stop filming her, like. And it.

31:42 It was.

31:42 I had never seen that. And I am. I'm so glad we stayed, that we were there to be able to stand in front of those kids, to. To protect them, you know, as best we could. And then later, the sheriff did show up. He Drove by, and then he gave the protesters all up there a big thumbs up. And the organizer of the protest came right over to me and stood and stared me in the eyes. And it's like, did you call the cops? And I didn't say anything. And they said, well, you see for yourself, they're on our side. And that was absolutely true. You know, these guys knew they could do anything. They could destroy our signs, they could spit on us, they could threaten us, they could stop cars, they could do whatever they wanted. And the sheriff was on their side because as liberals, we were the enemy. We were in the wrong, and our rights and our lives didn't matter. And so eventually, one by one, the protest ended and everybody left. And we just were like, I'm just gonna. We're just gonna be the last to leave. We're just gonna be the last to leave. Like, at the very least, we will not be moved from this bridge. We will not be intimidated. But it was just. Terrifying isn't quite the right word. I never felt physically threatened.

33:08 I'm gonna guess that they. They had taken the pragmatic. The pragmatic calculation that if they actually tried to hurt someone, it wouldn't end up.

33:18 They would need to goad us. They were trying to goad us into taking some sort of first action. And there were a few cases where, especially when. When the crowd sort of dissipated and the. The kind of, sort of scariest looking guys were coming over and screaming at the high schoolers, screaming at these minors, you know, calling them sluts and whores. And an older guy did come over and like, hey, hey, that's enough. You don't need to be talking like that. And, and there was a little bit of that. There was too much of an audience for, you know, and they were filming us the whole time. They said. And that's when they came over and said, basically, like, we're gonna dox you. We're going to get your information. We're going to ruin your lives.

33:52 Oh, boy.

33:53 And, yeah, so I was really lived. Lived in terror. I was terrified of that. And then what happened following that? Oh, one thing that happened, which was really heartbreaking is a friend of ours was on that bridge. We knew she was a Trump supporter, but, you know, whatever. Her politics had nothing to do with her friendship. But she didn't say hi to us, and she stood right by us waving this American flag. And one of the guys, the more aggressive kind of abusive guys, came over and was calling us all kinds of names and then turned and looked at Her. And she was standing right next to us, smiling and waving her flag and said, you see these ladies here? You see this lady? She's a pedophile and a whore, and her children should be taken away and all this stuff. And our friend didn't say a word. She just kept smiling like she hadn't heard what he said. And that. That was like a gut punch. Because I tell you, you know, we have not the same politics at all, but it doesn't matter. If someone was talking to her like that, politics aside, I would have stepped in and said, this is my friend. You back off. And she just stood there and let it happen. And she made a choice. And that hurt probably more than anything. So after that, I ended up following up my original post on the forum, kind of telling what happened, telling the story I just told you. And that ended up going viral in the community here. Not viral, but it ended up going out in the community. And some people especially. There was a group in San Lorenzo Valley that really picked up on that. And they began making a point to go to counter protest on that bridge every weekend. And I know of at least one woman who went and stopped and talked and did get doxxed. And they found out her driver's license said that she was a nurse, or her driver's license, her license plate, and that she was a nurse. And they actually reported her. She lost. She temporarily got suspended because they reported false claims to the nursing board. And they were. They were serious about ruining people's lives. And I. And I lived in fear of that for a very long time. I could not go back to that bridge. I. I didn't. And what I wouldn't have expected you to. What Jessalyn had said to me when I said that, you know, I felt like they had. They had succeeded. They had frightened me from the bridge. They said. They said, no, no, no, no, no. She wasn't part of this. They had said, she said that your. Your. Your duty, your obligation isn't best served. Going back to that bridge, the. What you wrote and the fact that you inspired and encouraged other people, you can write about it, you can talk about it. Like that's where you're. That's what you need to do. And going back there, you did it. You took what I did. It shattered me, the experience. I mean, I was weeping for days, just. And I don't know that I'm telling the story even that well, but it.

37:01 You remember what I remember the day. I remember that. I remember. I don't actually remember that. Day very well. But I remember because we had recently gone to a march. Not. Yeah, not, not too long before then.

37:15 That's right.

37:15 I think that was like in early September probably. And I remember, I'm like, oh, am I going to this one too? And you're like, no, you're not. This is like, it's not really four kids. And I think that had I gone, it. That would have ended differently because, well.

37:38 If you had gone, honestly, I would have left with you. I wouldn't have kept you there. I wouldn't have stayed. I would have taken you away. I wouldn't have let you. I wouldn't have subjected. Because they were, that's the thing is they were, they were, they were yelling all this stuff at Lisa's kids who were a little younger than you.

37:54 Lisa's kids. You're telling me they yelled at them? At Wyatt Keller? Was Wyatt Keller?

38:01 Yeah.

38:02 You're telling me they.

38:03 Yeah. No, no. I mean, yeah, they. Yeah, they. And it was, it was. I mean, they knew new. They know new. New. New restraint. None of like it. It. It was a. It was a. A slice of the most vile parts of humanity. The idea that what people who are power hungry did. And then, you know, they. I can go on and on about this. It's not really about that.

38:28 I think we've exhausted the topic a little bit. Let's.

38:31 But the thing I want to say is the thing that the takeaway that I had was that there are a lot of different ways to stand up. And some of it is literally standing up and some of it is sharing a story and some of it is writing and some of it is. You know, again, I do read and think a lot about sort of the idea, what is it? It's so easy to dismiss someone. They're evil, they're awful, they're stupid, they're small minded. Where is the compassion? And it's all based in fear. They're afraid. They're afraid that their way of life, that the things they've always been able to say, they can't say anymore. And they can't see how it could possibly harm someone else. They see that if someone was arrested or killed by a police officer, they clearly, they had it coming. Of course they did. So this idea of trying to hold compassion for those very people, and that was one of the most difficult places because. Because it is too easy to return hate with hate. You know the quote from, from Dr. Martin Luther King, right? You. You can't drive out darkness with darkness. Only light can do that. And you can't drive out hate with hate. Only love can do that. And that was the. What I had gone onto that bridge thinking. I am not here to engage or debate. I am just here to stand and to remain loving. And, you know, whether or not I succeeded, I think at the very least, I did my part.

40:06 Yeah. That reminds me of a quote that said. The thing you said reminds me. I can't remember what the quote was, but there was a second quote that I heard of when you talked about, like, fear and like, people believing that, well, if something happened and the police did it, well, obviously the person opposing the police had it coming. It made me realize a quote that I heard where it's like, after there was a. It was a thing where there was a police report after a toddler stole a Barbie from a dollar store and the Phoenix police hitman ran on them, like there was a gunman or a bomb threat. It was unreal to see. There was a video filmed where.

41:03 Well, this isn't really pertaining to anyways.

41:05 But the police report. The police report strayed very different from what the footage showed on security cameras and phones. And it was a quote that was said, and it was. It makes you wonder how many people have been taken away because we assume that the police version of the events is always the truth.

41:25 Yeah. And it is. And that's really what Black Lives Matter. And this sort of, like, you know, me too movement. And a lot of this sort of, you know, what gets dismissed as woke culture is really about is the idea of none of this is new. It's just now being seen. And I think that's the important part about remembering our responsibility, you know, to move beyond the way things are always been and envision something that's better.

41:56 All right. And with that, I think the interview shall end.

42:00 All right. Thank you. You're welcome.