Stephen Dawkins and Tinye Dawkins

00:02 Hello, I am Stephen Dawkins. I'm 60 years old. Today's date is June, 15th, 2021. We are in Atlanta Georgia, in our library at 3 Cascade Pointe. I am interviewing tinye Dawkins, who is my mother.

00:28 Yeah, yeah. Okay. My name is Tiny Dawkins. I am 86 years old. Today's date is June, 15th. 2021. I am in Atlanta, Georgia, at the home of my son. Stephen Dawkins and Steve is going to ask me questions and he is my son, my second-born. Thank you, honey for agreeing to do the interview. I think part of our goal is to try and preserve some information for your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren, and those that follow. So we can know more about you and your life. So first, where did you grow up?

01:15 I was born and grew up in Atlanta. Georgia was born at 157 Mason Avenue Richmond in an area called Edgewood at the time. I don't know what it's called at this point, but I was born there and we lived there for many years. I think that Edgewood area is now part of the old Fourth Ward. I'm leaving Atlanta or nearby there. I think it is that may not be accurate actually. So what was your childhood like for in Atlanta, if it was right after the Great Depression so so good. What was your childhood like brothers? And my childhood was, um, I was saved fairly happy. We I was the youngest child and my

02:15 My brother's often thought that I was a spoiled child, which was not true, but

02:25 I guess we grew up fairly. I would say poor and

02:33 But we've had my, we live with my mother's parents, her, my grandfather, and my grandmother, and my grandfather was a very kind person. Okay, and I think my grandmother was some more Stern person, and I'm named after my grandmother. Her name was Tiny. So jelly, Woods mom's name was Tiny, and I'm named after my grandmother tired. Maternal grandfather was

03:12 Not John, Wesley Cobb. Maternal grandfather was was Eddie would anyways, right? Right. And I had no relationship with my paternal, grandparents at all. I never met them and I think we have since learned were lived somewhere near Augusta Turtle, grandparents lived in Augusta, Georgia, but my maternal. Grandparents the ones that live with us and I live with them were from Mansfield.

03:58 No, I don't know. I don't think so. Are you? Well, as you were living in that home growing up, you'd mentioned that your brothers. Uncle James and Uncle John thought that you were spoiled that? They think that because you were the baby and the were allowed to do more or why didn't, why would they think you were spoiled? I think they thought I was spoiled because I was a baby and I was the only girl and I think they thought that maybe I got a little bit bit more privileged than they did and that's why they thought that was. So as you were living with your grandparents in that house. What what Memories do you have? That were very good about that time?

04:58 And living together, when living together. As I said, I thought my grandfather, Eddie Woods was a very kind person and he took us on here when he work for the Pullman company and he took us on train trips. Okay, the three of us, the three children and we enjoyed those chips. And I'm not sure where we went, but we were wet on the train with him. And those were nice memories of him. My promise me. You were young at that time. I was young, I do know. I was not a teenager. I was a young person and it seems like one of the things that happened on what are the chances that I had a hat and seems like the Hat got lost on the train? And that was kind of upsetting to me at that time.

05:57 My maternal grandmother was a very Stern person and although I know I feel that she loved me and had my best interests at heart, but she was very stubborn with all three of us, all three of the children.

06:14 So, I guess today, they obviously had grown up.

06:19 In a very different time around the turn of the century. So their upbringing, I wonder how much that played into her being stern or him being kind. I guess he was working at the Pullman Porter company, right? And then what did she work? She did not work? No. She did not work out. I don't remember her working outside of the home at all. However, at that time people would bring well.

06:51 African American people with do washing and ironing for people or white people and they would bring the clothes to the house and she would wash the clothes iron and fold them. And then they would be picked up by the person who brought that they also did. They had curtain stretches quidditch match the curtains, right? You watch the curtains and you would rinse them. And some tea, a tea water, which would give them a little of a look about them, the color red, and then they would stretch them on these curtain rods that you could adjust the size and they did that. And they were paid for that from various people and then across your father, John Wesley, and big mouth and your grandparents, my father worked for

07:51 Roebuck And he was on the truck delivering Furniture delivered, whatever was ordered from Sears at the time. He was a, he worked on posted that. He work from that Sears store on Ponce de Leon. And I know that in, in recent days, you say Ponce and I say Ponce de Leon. So we never just said, we always said that store, but she did, she work outside of the home. She did work outside of the home and she worked at Simmons company still exist, and they make mattresses in Beautyrest mattresses. So, that's where my mother worked. And my two, brothers and well.

08:51 Has worked at Simmons company, Christine worked at a mattress company. She did not work for Simmons and I can't remember the name of that company, but they mostly mattress is all I know that they may be. So in terms of your your grandparents where you lived, what do, what was that you talk about, then some of the nicer than you remember that day.

09:27 Well, I guess the worst thing I remember is my grandmother been angry with one of my brothers and she threw frying pan at him. It didn't hit him Lachlan and that's the worst thing. I remember about her and I do have a godmother Miss Miss Louise Smith who lives directly across the street from us. And actually I'm named for Miss Louise to but my name is Tiny the week, but that was from Miss Louise. And I have some very pleasurable times and trips with Miss Louise on the train. We went to, I remember going to Savannah Georgia with Miss Louise. She had a cousin there, who is married to a minister, the Reverend Knight and the wingspan of a week there with them. And that at that time I was taking piano lessons and

10:27 I went into this church by myself to practice some of my music so that was kind of scary to me growing up in the south in Atlanta, you know, the the Bedrock of civil rights and them when we go to the Civil Rights Museum, I know you. But do you recall recall first aware riding on the train or doing something else that that that are being treated differently. Do you do you have a recollection of that? I do have a recollection of that as a child and there was street cars in Atlanta. And when I went to a zoo and even in elementary school when we went on a field trip, or they would always have a concert at the end of the year, where all of the schools will participate.

11:26 And we would ride those streetcars. And of course we the street that their signs in the streetcars that said Negroes are sitting in that seat from back to front and white seats from front to back. So that that we were always. Well, I was aware.

11:50 That there was a difference and that there was segregation, also, the, the fountains where you drink, it were colored and white. And I thank the one of the whites with cool water and ours was water. Just as it came out of the spicket know, right? It would be warm in the summer time. We're always cool. So did you ever get into any trouble as John Lewis to say, you know, good trouble, you know, how long the way you know being in Atlanta or Uncle James Arthur John, or your family having, you know, sat in the wrong place or anything like that. So you better we we kind of knew better. We never got in that kind of trouble and there was not any movements going on at the time when I was growing up.

12:49 04 say, you know, as John Lewis said the good trouble on Martin Luther King started, all those things came later in the later years, okay.

13:05 And so I'm going to come back to this question. I'm going to say everything for the end but it is about how you would like to be remembered. I want to come back to that. But did you know when you were growing up that you always wanted to be a parent? I did I knew that? I always wanted to be a parent and I think I'm at some point said, I wanted five children. Look at me a lot. I know that was a lot, but I think that's what I said. And I was reminded of that, I buy some of my relatives as I proceeded to children. So but I always knew that I wanted to be a parent. So I know you and Doc had seven boys. So was there ever a point when you know, as you kept getting pregnant the dark ever say either way to Matt think we have enough kids here. Or did you guys have that conversation already? Have that conversation and

14:05 The last step pregnancy produce twins. So that was pregnancy. Number 6. And I myself had decided that this is a no, you know, not knowing that I was having twins. And I somewhere along the way, I always wanted a girl. And I was hoping that this last one would be a girl. However, I got two boys that time instead of one boy, and I remember my husband's mother saying for time. She has two more boys. So, but I couldn't have asked for a better group of children. These questions were your dreams for your choice?

15:03 My dreams for my children were that all of my children would be educated college-educated at least and that they would be able to maintain themselves successfully in life with their families. That was my hope for my children and was that

15:28 What does that represent from a generational perspective? For I guess you grew up with your grandparents, had your parents and then your life. So, but it seems like you were all.

15:43 Employed.

15:45 Maybe not educate and I guess for you, where you the first in your family, to go to college. I was the first in my family to go to college. And I did go to nursing school. Of course, I went to Spelman College for two years and I went to Meharry Medical College School of Nursing and requirement was two years of college. Before you answer that nursing school because I graduated with a BSN degree from that school. And I was along the way, I was always encouraged by my brother John. Okay, that, you know, you you can, you don't have to accept the, the worst things you can, you can do something in life, and he was very encouraging to me.

16:37 So when you say you don't have to accept the worst things, what what did that means? You admit? That that I should expect the best. I should not just accept whatever comes along, I say no, I should expect I should strive for, and accept interns right after a tional in it in terms of nurse of going to school, in terms of marriage, in terms of dating and all of that that you don't have to accept. You should. And he and he told me I was a pretty girl so, you know, that was nice of him. Yeah. So what what do you think you're attending Spelman? Who, what? What I know that what kind of sacrifice did that cause for your family for you to be there and the way I know a little bit about Dockside. Well, I'll kind of his true or not. But I heard was that, you know, they would all send 5 and $10 a week for him, you know, to get

17:37 FAMU when was told, but I would imagine that your family had a similar sacrifice to pay for you to get through Stone. Well, when when I graduated from Howard High School here in Atlanta, I got a scholarship to Spelman and the tuition van was you wouldn't believe how much it was but it's nothing like what you paid today to go to college. Anyway, that's tuition covered. My first year at Spelman and after that my fault I worked in the summer. I always had on those summer job, and I wish I was save my money and my father would give me some money and my mother and we saved enough to pay for that second year.

18:26 And when I went to Meharry, they but I went to Meharry. The first year was the only year that required a good bit of money after that. They give you a stipend because the nursing students did work at the hospital. So that's typing covered, most of mine, but my mother did Mother and Father did send money to cover my expenses at my hair.

19:07 And also I was since I could not go to the University of Georgia. I guess you would apply but I should let you tell the story about how you made it from Spelman to Meharry. And then what what's the state's role was? In that process? Okay. This is the state role in that process was I applied to the University of Georgia, if it has school of nursing, but as a black person or negro at the, we were call, nathacha Negroes were not allowed to go to the University of Georgia. So Georgia, paid the difference in the tuition that I would have paid at the University of Georgia and Meharry.

19:59 And they paid. Trained Fair two times a year for me to come home back and forth to my hair. So I was paying at Meharry. What I would have been paid had, I gone to the University of Georgia and that was Georgia's role in that the governor.

20:24 Talmadge Herman Talmadge was the governor part of that time at least. So as when you were growing up, what did you what did you think you were going to be when you grow up? Well, I always wanted to be a nurse and when I was in high school, English teacher tried to discourage me from being a nurse. He said I should be an English teacher, so but my wishes for bells. I want to be a nurse always, if you look back now and to do it all over again, what do you think you would choose to be as a profession? I would. I would have been embarrassed and that's the thing. I wanted to be. That's the thing I did for 30 more than 30 years and

21:20 I had good, excuse you have ups and downs and that you have good experiences with patients that, of course you lose patience, but one thing that I remember, one of my older patients at the regal matte was the young nurse and she said, honey don't live so long. She said all of your friends will be gone and I'm now at 6 years old. I find that to be very true that all most of your friends die. And you know, you do have some left for you. You learn to hold onto the ones that you have and family is very important to as you grow older. So, we know if the jobs that we all that, you grew up with someone work for Pullman Rick at Sears, you know, working at Simmons that you and, and horse, Uncle James.

22:20 John Michael Johnson, you know, but that your choice was a different one to go into medicine and health care. And now, if you look at, you know, at least my part of the family, first dog was a doctor and then I doctor your two grandkids.

22:40 The interesting thing about wine. How medicine has really stuck after 4 after you and Doc made that decision to get some of your salmon, boys? Two of us the doctors, but that's in been an interesting pivot from how you grew up which I guess was kind of the same 4.2, right? But we are parents were not professional sew ins and since I was the first one in my family to get a degree and I can remember Steve years ago. When you we were talkin about children and the choices that they make program profession when when your son and your daughter, I think chose medical school that you said this was what they see and what they know and and that influence damn man. I suppose you're saying you are and Patrick saying that your father was the position.

23:40 And let you in that direction. But for you and for Doc belt, that was not the choice. Me you, you you, you peel it away from what you drop knowing. Well, I true and handed out. I chose to. I always want it to

24:07 Have an education because I felt like to grow out of talking to y'all to have some semblance of

24:19 Whatever that education was the key and I still think that education is the key.

24:27 To a better life, for individuals, for anybody for my children, anybody's children, I think education is the key. Even to this day. Do you want us to put it under the bed to your religious beliefs? I know we grew up Catholic and you were catholic. And Doc, was Baptist right now. So, did you grow up in a religious or spiritual family? I did grow up in a spiritual family. But we were, we went to the AME Church, which is African Methodist Episcopal church. And that's the church. I grew up in Edgewood was. Well, you know, I started as a little girl with my family, but every, when I went to my hair and then and I seem to want some

25:27 In a little bit different from what that the AME Church offered, I felt that.

25:35 YouTube, it was quieter and it was just supposed to rain and it I could get more out of it and I became a Catholic at that point. Okay?

25:48 So so big mama and and John Wesley cop, we're not Catholic and I don't remember my father going to church. But my mother was a m me and my grandmother. All of them were AME and I was an adult. When I was baptized in the Catholic church in an afterlife causes you to have that kind of face.

26:31 And in that, well, you know, I'll I think I

26:37 As life progresses, and

26:40 I pray a lot and most of the time my prayers are answered. So it makes me believe that. Damn. There is a God somewhere, that is a been somewhere that and then I believe that it is God who who, who listens and answers. So given that what are your thoughts around buying? Are you afraid to die and you concerned about that?

27:15 My thoughts about dying or that. I know, it happens has to happen. It happens to all of us. And I think I called Diane, the great equalizer because the even the poorest person in this world is going to die. The richest person in this world is going to die. So they're in terms of that. It is equalizer. That's the great equalizer in my in my thoughts, and I know that it has to happen.

27:53 For myself. I hope it will not be a lingering suffering time. Now. We're going to be a long day. You're not increasing a person's life. You are extending their death. So I hope I hope that doesn't happen. I don't think I'm afraid.

28:21 I don't know. It has to happen. So it if you had as you look back over your life, what are you most proud of these 87 years? 86 years? I have to be but what I'm most proud of I think it was my children. I'm very proud of my children.

28:52 I always keep all of my children in my prayers and and the end. I've added my grandchildren to those prayers as well. So and I also pray for the world. I pray for World Peace. It seems like that will never ever happen, but I pray for World, Peace.

29:15 And I pray for all the people at this time, all the people who have been stricken with Colby. Pray for them. And for the family, that's of those who have passed away. So when when you say that you're proud of your kids, you know, met and your, you talk about your dreams for your children, that they would be successful in and then I'm able to manage on their own. I guess. That's the same dream that you. I don't speak for you. Before you have, if you had that same dream for your grandkids. I do it. I have that same dream for my grandchildren. And for my great-grandchildren, I have that same dream that they will grow up to be successful, individual TUEBL.

30:03 Baby, contributing members of society are there things that about how you grew up?

30:13 That helped you become who you are that. You wish that your kids, or grandkids or great-grandkids were able to to benefit from.

30:27 To help make them a better person.

30:33 I guess I grew up with a lot of structure from from my parents and my grandparents. And I

30:49 I'll, I think structures important, but I don't know, you know, you can't tell people.

30:57 How to raise their children, each person has to do their the way they feel in and sometimes people want you to do things differently from the way they were brought up and I don't know what, but I'm answering that question. Well not well if you think about family and Marvel at the fact that you know, all seven of us did well, you know, in life and her are doing well and are, you know, successful to different degrees and would look at that in the off and say well how did you do it, you know, so and the implication there is that there was something unique to how we were brought up that allowed us to grab success and be able to

31:49 Push forward and get there and do it if to the extent that that might existence. And guess you're saying that it's the discipline in the structure potentially that, you think you may have given to us. That may have helped us get there. I'm not sure of him. Well, I guess seeing you both of your parents work. Probably help some and it went when we were growing up. We were both very strict and you're up and Adam as I look at look back. Sometimes I think we were too stretched. So there were things that I would change about the way you were brought up. What would you do, differently.

32:41 That's just think we were pretty strict, Steven, you know, you

32:50 You know, you didn't have to tell you 5 times to do something. You know, you do you tell a child one time and and they do it and, you know, that's not the case. I'm times with. As I see Donald in my mind, children and their children, but other young people in their family, they don't, that's not the real. You do a baby have to say three or four times to do this and do that. Right? And and of course, corporal punishment was a part of your upbringing too and I think I would change some of that.

33:36 If I had it to do over I'm sure. I would change some of that if I had to do over again, and I think I would intervene. I think your father was Juno.

33:47 Third person, when it came to corporal punishment, I think I would have intervened more. Yeah, he learned that from his father and I guess people do they you do what, you know.

34:09 Why aren't you reflect back on on your life and in the mini memories at that? Come to mine? Are there any things that you think back on? But like you talked about riding on the going on the train rides, you know with your grandfather going over to Savannah with Miss Louise. And I are there any other memories that you cherish lot that you would like in addition to those that you think that we may not be aware of is that we should know of well. And another fond memory that I have is just of the family reunions that

34:57 We're on my maternal side. We went to Mansfield, Georgia. And there were big family, reunions day with always have a pig cooking, and lots of all kinds of food, as, you know, just as much as you could eat and the children would play games and all. And those were for joyous times when we went there and it was always connected with a church at that time, in Mansfield to. But it would just be a good time. A big family reunions. Also remember spending a week and Mansfield with some of my cousins to me. That was not a very good experience because it was I called it country and I was from the city. It was very different then, you know, there was no paved streets and

35:57 We were going Barefoot and all of that. So, and I was used to wear shoes. So

36:03 At, and they had a well, and they had an outhouse and did those things were very different for me. So I was very happy when that because I came back to Atlanta, or maybe that's why, you know, I I guess.

36:20 You know, it's good when we all try to get together now, I guess I may remind you and those family gatherings that kind of comes together and for my own family, My Hope for my family, my seven sons and their families, that they will always remain coherent and peaceful with each other and that they will all at some point gather together to it, to enjoy each other's company and as a family, when the, when the first son got married, but your Steven, we kind of try to decide that we would try to do Thanksgiving always together leaving Christmas for the for the wise.

37:20 Bugs out of the fan right? Cell phone number for a little while. It is still working for the little bit. I mean, a lot of people going to be at their own home at Christmas time, and then we've had to share Thanksgiving with other families. For the most part. We still try to get together at Thanksgiving. Well, what would advise us as we wrap up? What advice would you offer to your great-grand kids, Kimmy, and Palmer in and then that generation who will follow, you know, so I guess the whole new Army of

38:09 Dawkins at Nara soon-to-be-born. Yes. The advice I would offer to them was.

38:17 Go to school, get your education, just get as much as you can. And to be a caring individual and try to make a contribution to thought and I hope for my great-grandchildren that they will all be successful and smart little people with the ones I especially Little Canada seems to be on track.

38:55 I haven't, he hasn't answer acted with me much, but Little Canada is well on, I think, well on the way.

39:06 And I'm just happy for my happy for my grandson. That he and Ashley are seem to be a happy couple. And the children are doing well. So well and I I appreciate your willingness to do this. You know, I miss storycorps interview and I think we want to capture as much as we can have your lived experience for everyone and maybe you will do a follow-up. I actually thought about having either page, one of your grandchildren, you know, or one of the others, you know, do this in to do another interview with you, you know, because just an anorak, from their perspective with you and even I I would imagine you'd be surprised Stephen, Kennedy at Age 3, you know, she asked a ton of questions.

40:06 Record this for everyone to enjoy, and I'm very grateful to Steve it. And I must say that Stephen has provided me with experiences that I would like skiing traveling to Peru, to Africa, to do the things that I don't think I would have experienced, had he not provided that for me, and I'm appreciative of those experiences. I think your kids going on at Safari, d'africa, you know, your grandkids got as much out of that as you did, you know, being able to travel there with you are going to Machu Picchu, you know, with you, you know, till I think for us to travel is a way that we all can grow together, but it also reinforces their memory of you.

41:06 Because they'll have that forever.

41:09 Those were very enjoyable times and bird learning experiences for me. Thank you. Hopefully, I will look forward to in capturing this and sharing it with everyone and then maybe that will encourage young another younger person than me to interview the next time. Okay, it's been, it's been great. Thank you.