Sukaina Hussain and Zakira Jones

00:00 Go for it.

00:03 Play my name is sukaina Hussain. I am 35 years old make 35 today's date is Wednesday, February 12th, 2020. Where in Fresno California, my interview partner is a Sakura Jones and she is my friend.

00:20 My name is Akira Jones. My age is 22 years old and today is Wednesday, February 12th, 2020 and we are in Fresno California. The name of my interview partner is cicana and she is also my friends.

00:38 All right. Well Sakura, I'm really excited to sit with you here today and just have a chance to talk about each other's background stories. I know that there are similarities in our families and differences in the way to grow up things like that. I originally from PacSun. I was born in PacSun in Karachi. I was three years olds when I moved here. I lived in New York when I was very young. I don't remember this. But my mom told me it was very stressful in a house with like four families together and too many kids just being all like immigrant families who first came here and our uncle sponsored us and brought us until we are all living with him and we're really appreciative of him, but I'm sure it was tough on all the families. I moved to Chicago a year after that. I think it was like four or five years old and then grew up mostly in Chicago in the north part of Chicago for a while. Now we moved out to the suburbs and I went to undergrad there I Democrat school in Chicago.

01:38 And I move to Fresno about four years ago. So I've had a chance to get to know you since then, but I'd love to hear a little bit more about your upbringing and where you're born and where you're from. I was actually born here. So born and raised in Fresno, you did a lot of moving yet. I just basically resided here, but I've just done mostly commuting back and forth like Orange County or LA area cuz my uncle's of over there. So I would go and visit them but I was brought up in Fresno. I've we've only moved houses once and I think it was felt like maybe three years old when we moved and we've lived in the same house ever since I originally started going to the spa mix school private school when I was in first grade from kindergarten to about third grade thing for me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's when I started going to summer school and then

02:38 Third grade watts and the third grade than the beginning of my fourth grade here all the way to the end of my freshman year. I started going to I went through independent study. So I was basically he essentially homeschooled for like fourth grade to freshman year, and I would just go to school once a week to meet with a teacher and they would give me my homework and like she would tell me like what I need to do for the week, and then I would just make her the next week, so that was recently my life. So during that process. I spent a lot of time like with my grandma. She was basically my teacher and we did a lot of activities like to create kind of our own PE, so we could go to like parks and that's when I started getting into baking cuz she would help me like bake at home and try to keep me busy and then after my freshman year then sophomore year to senior year. I went to Clovis North and then I graduated from there in 2015 and ever since

03:38 And I've been at Clovis Community College. So I'm studying my business printing business and administration so I can get my degree. That's so full that such an interesting story. I didn't know you were that your grandma your mom's mom or your dad's but my mom your mom's Mountain whole I've met her very cool. I also went to an Islamic school in Chicago in the north suburbs of Chicago Morton Grove. It's called Mac and Muslim education center. I was there for kindergarten first and second when I was in second grade, they told my parents that they think that I should have gotten promoted to third grade was only two months and I got promoted to third grade which was not so great of an experience. I did not like cut third grade class. So then the next year I transfer to public school and my dad was like no you're doing third grade again because he felt like that school was going to be a lot harder for me than what I experienced before. So I didn't end up finishing early or anything. I ended up being back on track. So I did no second grade, but there.

04:38 Quite so yeah, it was it was it balanced out when I started a private school. My mom actually start me a year early. So I was a year ahead edgewise know everyone in my grade was already older than me and they would always be like, oh my gosh, like I had to deal with it all the way to high school together. So young there be like what like you're 16 and a senior and it was just like, you know, not normal for them, but I would definitely agree that in private school. It was a bit more like it was I guess easier to learn cuz the teachers were more one-on-one do they tended to you more and then also an independent study was like one-on-one with a teacher. So if I had any questions or anything like that, I could just ask her and I she had like my full attention. I have her full attention for a whole hour. So yeah, so it was pretty wonderful and then definitely going to public school. It was a different experience for me. Like I wasn't used to having like six classes.

05:38 The day and having homework do every single day. So that was for sure transition in and just kind of getting used to like they're being a dress code there being times when you can't do certain things like you can't leave campus. You can't like eating class things like that. So that was definitely a cool experience. Also, I liked it though because I've been so full since I was young so I like getting the chance to meet new people on be friends with new people and get to know other people outside of just like the Summit Community that I grew up with cuz that was all I was I was pretty cool that is really interesting for me high school was like a very formative time. It was when I kind of felt like I came into who I was and I learned a lot more about my face in while I was in high school and I was actually because the Sunday school I went to had amazing teachers and like older college students that I really looked up to and so

06:38 I used to go to Sunday school or I was the oldest and they were all little kids and me and I felt terrible and how to place and then I started traveling to the Sunday school. That was an hour away every Sunday because the teachers really took time to like teach you about faith in a real way and they were these college students who are Muslim that I never met before it like other students were Muslim. I didn't have many many more some friends. And so it was like a really important time in life were not only was the sunday-school important to me but even translated on like how I behaved in high school in like one I chose to work a job and things like that. Exactly. That's what I tell my parents because in the beginning I was kind of upset but they decided to home school sounds like you know, I want that experience at my friends are getting where they get to go to school and they can't have friends and do like activities with them. I'm just stuck at home butt and actually your husband was my teacher. Yes grade is my math / science teacher. But yeah, so it was just I feel like also being in the private song school they did.

07:38 An Arabic class so you did get to learn about Islam and learn about how to read Arabic so I can read Arabic now like tell the state because of that and also I just feel like I was sheltered from all the bad that was like in public school. So when I did start going to public school like I noticed that kids my age were getting involved in like really bad things and I was just like it shocks me cuz I was that's not something that I was used to being around her even seeing kids doing my age and so is just not normal for me and I was just surprised but that's why I told my parents I actually think them for homeschooling me because who knows like what would have happened if I had that same upbringing that they did where they were just exposed to all like the bad when they were at school and it's I feel like you're kind of more inclined to like fall into that when you're younger cuz you don't really know better. So I feel like maybe that's why but because I was home-schooled then I got to

08:38 Play be more focused on my religion and pray at home and do all those things like that. So I definitely appreciate it. Now that I went through independent. He was worth it for first. That's awesome. So it sounds like it really gave you the values and Foundation you needed to let be independent later on and find your place in like, you know, now you're in uniform like in a college and you're able to like to take on all these amazing things because you have that Foundation already has really yeah, exactly. So now I'm currently the president of rmsa at Clovis Community College and it's kind of like very important to me because it's something where I actually get a chance to make a difference and draw in those other Muslim Students are on campus instead of them going out and doing things with maybe people who aren't most of them or are bad influences. They can more use their free time to get involved with the club and do more things for the community then yeah on their own and do you think it's also good wait till I connect with non-muslim cuz I seen none of them come today then send their interested in.

09:38 Butter slime and and even like help students share the message of like what it got. So yes, so that's another reason why it's so important to me is because just with MSA as a foundation I my goal is to not with me like help the Muslim Students are on campus, but also the non-muslims who are on campus who may have questions for the Islamic religion as a whole or even just about Muslims in general and they may be too shy to ask or too afraid. So we just use it as an open space where you can ask anything you want and you can feel free to come to any event. It's not like if you're not missing you can't be here. It's open to everyone they can bring their friends and it's also just a way for like Muslims and non-muslims to be able to mingle and get to know each other without there being like this tension where it's like, oh no, we're not the same religion. We cannot socialize because it should be where everyone's just peaceful and socialize

10:38 Together so that's basically also are going even I noticed within the past semester in the semester. We even had like some people who were like a half their families. Half of them aren't cuz like their parents or mixture something so they have that little bit of diversity but like they identify as a Muslim but they haven't really been drawn like to their faith as much because they're not really, you know, practicing it at home as much so I even had one girls. I've never seen before started attending our club last semester and like she just reached out to me the semester asking me about like the hijab and how I feel wearing it because she told me she actually is considering starting to wear it and I was so happy and she was like you actually like inspired me and that will really like to touch my heart. So I was like, that's the what I want to do. Like I want to be able to reach people in a way that others can't where it's like they feel like they can you no talk to me or ask me questions and not

11:38 Feel like oh, I don't know if I should say this or that I just want them to feel like they can be open with me. So I really love doing being involved with MSA in the community in like planning events and making things happen. It's really great. That's so cool. So I love that you sure that someone even asked you like, you know, I love that you wear the hijab him and I'm proud to like or are proud to see him with some woman who wears it with strength. So I know that's a challenge for a lot of people like obviously in a son that his job is mandated but in a sign we said nothing is for spying on me. Like there's no compulsion in religion. So some people choose to wear it and some people don't just wear it and it's just individual choice and practice. So, can you share me be what brought you to wear the hijab? Maybe like why you made the decision to do it and like what that process and Jeremy was like for you cuz I know I struggled when I wore it to digest would love to hear your perspective. So actually when I was younger my mom have gone to hatch which is where they perform the pilgrimage.

12:38 On the Kaaba and when she came back she decided to wear the hijab and she'd worn it for really long time. But I always noticed that like when she wore it was like it would be like where it was. Maybe she wore like a beanie like hot and her hair was texting to it or maybe it was like tied behind like I feel like it was kind of two trying to make it more Modern Eyes like with her style and so I didn't really have that like she didn't really inspire me to want to wear it cuz it kind of just didn't seem like anything different to me like it was just like any other person and then maybe I would say just about like for three or four years ago. She decided she didn't want to wear anymore and

13:25 I like I didn't know one really said anything cuz it's like you said it it's not for so if that's your choice that's her choice, but my parents were never like forceful pain. So it's kind of like whenever you're ready type of thing you can wear it and basically I would say I've been wearing the hijab for about a year-and-a-half now and before that I honestly would say I never thought I would have liked if you ask me in 2 years are going to wear the hijab. I would be like no way like I just did not see myself reaching that level of like spirituality yet. So what inspired me I would say his first I was like in a really like rough time in my life and I was just going through some personal things and I would just say that like my life was not going as I wanted to and I just started dealing with a lot of depression and sadness and I wasn't like I have basically lost my purpose in life. So I will

14:25 It really like happy with the way my life is going and the people who were in my life. I guess I would say weren't the best influence either. So it was kind of like I was just going downhill and that's when like I reach my lowest point in the I like actually turn to Allah because I was like, I have no one else to turn to so when I did turn to him and I started I realized I started praying more and it was like he basically pulled me out of that like depression State and I was no longer feeling low and feeling you know, like I don't have a purpose and it was like I was like, you know, I want to wear the hijab because this is me giving back. This is what I should be doing. And I was like, I want to make God proud like this is what I want to do. So it was a decision that that was kind of what like was the root of my influence of wanting to

15:25 And then after that my husband my uncle's wife, she started wearing the hijab. I mean she's been wearing it but I would like be around her and she was in Orange County. So when I would go visit her in Orange County, she I just noticed how she wear the hijab and she wore it with pride. She embraced it. She was confident about it. She didn't like like alter how she should wear it. If anything she made it look more beautiful wearing it where she was fully covered fully clothed wearing loose clothing dress modestly. But like she still, you know, you matched her colors. She wore really pretty outfit. So it was like just because you wear it. It doesn't mean that you have to like dress like Robbie or you can't look as appealing like she still looked beautiful all in her own and she didn't have to be half naked to look beautiful. And that was one thing that like

16:25 I really like admired about her because I thought that was amazing. Like I was staying with her for a few weeks and I would just noticed how every day like she just went about her day like it was nothing and I was like growing up like when I would see other hijabis, I would think like do they feel weird cuz everyone just ride away on the spot nose. Yeah, you're Muslim because that's right invitation when you're wearing it and I'm like do they feel like, you know, someone do people treat them different. Like I always wondered that on my own and just being around her in like seeing how she just conquered like everyday activities and whatever was on her agenda and like she just went about her life like it was nothing and I was just like what I like that's amazing. And so she was definitely the woman who like inspired me to the point where I was upset that I wasn't wearing it when I was with her like I was like, why aren't I wearing the hijab like I want to wear it and I want to be also like, you know wearing it and people know like, oh, she's a Muslim girl, and I also noticed that

17:25 Before when I didn't wear the hijab, I wasn't very close like with my face. So if like I had friends who were most lemon they would say when it got to the point of oh, why can't you eat pork or why can't you drink alcohol or why can't you go to parties? Then I would let go because my religion and then it will lead to the question of course of what's a religion and then I would say guess like I wouldn't just be like, oh, you know, like why don't you take a gas or something like yeah, I wouldn't just come out and be like Oh, I'm Muslim and I felt like a part of me was like a shame to say it not ashamed but like shy I guess you could say where I wasn't really as confident to embrace it and so, you know, I'm Muslim in this is why I can't do these things. I kind of just wanted to fit into whatever they were doing. But then when it came down to the root of things I can't do for my religion. It's kind of like one now. I have to kind of own up to it and tell them, you know, I must them in this is my face and so

18:25 I was always worried. Like how are they going to treat me different now or how are they going to act? And so that is also something that you know, of course, I wasn't proud of and at the time I didn't realize it was like an issue. But once I was like I said going through that hard time in my life and then I spent some time with my aunt to kind of try and get away from Fresno and I like I like a new scene a change of scene and stuff like that. So when I spent time with her that's when I felt like I was more proud of my religion and that's when I was like, you know, I want to embrace it more. I want to be more confident and be like her where I'm not ashamed of who I am and as a woman like who I should be as a Muslim woman. So basically I cannot she didn't even know I never even told her like, you know, you're secretly inspiring me to want to wear the scarf. It was just a feeling and

19:21 So when I went back to Fresno, I decided to order all the jobs that I wanted that I thought would go with my outfits. I cleaned out my closet and I ordered like more modest clothing. And the thing is I'm in the only have to clean out like a quarter of my closet because even before when I didn't wear hijab a part of me was always still like modest inside. I never felt comfortable wearing like short shorts or like showing, you know, cleavage and stuff like that like it was I still had a part of me who had like self-preservation where I didn't want to just like, you know, my body inside just even though because I don't work a job doesn't mean I was like wanting to do go all out and dress the way that everyone else did so it was like I never felt comfortable even if I was where like a dress to an all-girls party, I would still wear like leggings underneath or something like that. So it was just something that was a personal within me and even a lot of people ask me when I start wearing it like, oh, did you have to get a ton of new clothes and I'm like

20:21 No, actually I didn't and like if you kind of have that mindset of like how to correlate outfits and where something is undershirt like you don't really have to get rid of a ton of stuff. So yeah, I basically did all of that on my own and I didn't even tell my parents and then when everything came it was in the summer like about two summers ago and I decided I want the first day I wear it to be my first day of school. So I was like then I will also feel more confident cuz it's not like one day I was in class not wearing hijab and then the next day I Shot Ya, so I was like that was my decision where I was like, you know, I'll feel more confident and calm if I show up the first day of school already wearing it. These people don't know me so it's okay and so I decided to wear it and then I came home that day and I told my parents I was like, oh, yeah, so I rather his job now.

21:21 Yeah, they hit they were like so shocked like what and my dad especially was so happy for me like he cheered up and he was just like I'm so proud of you like for making this decision in all on your own and even my mom was she was just like that's really good. Like I'm happy for you that you decide to wear it and I also was like surprised of how much positive feedback I received from the Muslim Community and even some of my non-muslim friends like they were just like wow like so they even knew like what this means to me and they said like, you know, that's amazing you look beautiful in and I got so much feedback from the Muslim Community of the girls. They were all saying like that's amazing like welcome to the job because of stuff like that just you know, a positive encouragement and feedback. So the reason I didn't tell anyone or my parents was because I didn't want anyone to be overly excited and joyous that I'm going to wear it and say I wanted to be

22:21 Down and then they feel like I felt like I'm going to let them down right and I also didn't want to tell someone and someone give me negative feedback right and then it gets in my head and I'm like, maybe I don't want to wear them not ready. And so I didn't want anyone's opinion and everyone was shot cuz I even like had seen some of my friends the day before and then it's like the next day. I'm wearing a dumb like you never mentioned anything and and I was just so excited like I couldn't contain my excitement. It was just something that I was like it was like for the first time I felt like I found my purpose and this was what I wanted to do for me for the sake of God. It wasn't like I was trying to please someone else or do something for someone else. It was solely for me and just because I wanted to make Allah happy and it was like my gratitude of I'm no longer in a bad state of mine. I am better and when I started to wear the hijab, I felt better like internally and

23:21 Turn only like physically mentally everything. So it was like a change of everything for me was like a whole new beginning. So it was definitely a different in the beginning. I am not feel like I was nervous. Of course, like my first day of school is like, oh my gosh, cuz it's like you look around the room and you can tell if there is any other hijabi and usually nine times out of 10. I was the only one or if I could spot maybe one more of her otherwise, I would mostly just be me and it's kind of like even small things like if I'm the one who's always late to class. The professor is going to remember me. I look like everyone else. Yeah. So yeah, I was definitely a little bit nervous in the beginning but it just got to the point where I was so confident and I even had some other Muslim girls who don't wear it right now ask me like do people start treating you different now that you know it and I was like actually know and I think that that is based on how you carry yourself when you wear

24:21 Because I've met girls who do cover and they are very like timid and shy and they don't like to talk about like their job or their religion and if anyone wants to ask, you know, they're very like standoffish or they don't like seem approachable for you to talk to them and I've seen some girls who aren't so it's kind of just it depends on how you carry yourself and if you feel insecure about wearing it people can tell and they will, you know treat you differently based on that because they can sense you insecure about wearing the scarf. So that's why when I saw how my aunt were and how confident she was it was like that's what I want to do. So once I started I was like no people don't treat me different because I'm still me. I'm still the same person. I will be vocal about it. I will say, you know, if you want to have any questions you can ask me when I'm at work. I'm still talkative. I'm so friendly with people. I still talk to people. I'm not going to be like, oh now all of a sudden because I wear a head job I can

25:21 Be social or I can't do these things and that's why I even like being a part of MSA. It's something I'm proud of because I get the chance to like Taco on big events and plan things and it's like just because I'm a woman people think because you're a woman and you're a head job be that there is like all these limitations of things that you can't do when they don't realize that it's not it's more of us spiritual thing. And also just how you carry yourself and how you are as a person and the things that you do, so it was just it was definitely one of like the best experiences of my life cuz I really am and I was proud that it was something I did on my own and it was a big step that I got to complete like by myself and it wasn't like I had someone encouraging me along the way I was the one like pushing myself telling myself, you know, this is what's right for you. This is what you should do and ever since then like

26:21 Of course, you know we all have bad days, but I realize like I wasn't ever back in that state of mind that I was before I start wearing the hijab where I was just very like stuck in like a dark hole Rajan. I really sad and depressed because now it's kind of like, I realize, you know, you can always turn to God no matter what you can always ask for forgiveness. No matter what so anything that's wrong like a lost going to be there for you. So that's basically what kind of helped me get through everything and even till this day. It's like I've even had some people ask me like are you sure like that? That was what like in the beginning there? Like are you sure you want to wear the hijab? I can show us what you want to do and I'm like I could not be more sure like it wasn't even like I was like, I don't know. I was like, yeah, this is what I want to do. This is this is what was my purpose and it's what I was looking for when I said I felt like I didn't have a purpose and then once I start wearing it, I was like I was so proud of so

27:21 Embraced it. And I would even receive compliments like oh, I love like your outfits and you always look so nice and I'm like, I never received compliments like that before but it's like because people see your beauty as modesty and it's your turn yourself in a modest way. You're not carrying yourself like where you have to flaunt yourself in I guess it demeaning way. It's just they see that, you know, this girl is modest and she's still beautiful and they they don't they're not looking at your body there more looking at your soul in your personality and getting to know you as a person versus before wouldn't even I'd be at school I'd feel uncomfortable if I would be walking by myself. Some guys would just approached me just because they thought like oh like she's pretty didn't even know me and then they were just try and like talk to me and I would feel so scared and like insecure because I

28:21 By myself, and I wouldn't feel safe walking alone. Just because they would approach me in that way and it was like once I started wearing the hijab. It was like I felt so much more respect. I didn't have to deal with random people coming up to me. It was like they see you as wearing the hijab and they respect you there. Like, you know, that's a woman you can't just approaching that way. It's like you don't you don't go after someone like that and it if you're not going to be respectful. So I definitely like I noticed her before when I would walk down a certain path if you know some guys would approach me when I was at school then want to throw another job. I could walk down that same path and no one would say anything and it was just like a relief like I was like, yeah, so definitely ever since I started wearing it like that was a big decision for me, but I've been happier against I started and I embrace it like more than anything, but I will

29:21 So why you also started wearing the hijab and what led you to that I liked your story made me think of is I liked how you talk to about your personal Journey. A lot of stereotypes we hear about for the Muslim Community are that women are forced to wear hijab or that Aslam forces this and that or that governments worth is not in. So I think the more were able to share stories of know this is a personal choice that women make and for the countries where it is forced that that's their government or that's all I'm sure that's not about religion and I appreciate you really talking about like this was a journey. I was on as an individual and something I struggled with as an individual and it has nothing to do with anyone forcing anything upon me. I really appreciate it with you talking about like how you gained a closer relationship with God because in my upbringing to I found that when I decided to wear hijab, it's because I was looking to see

30:21 How can I build a closer relationship with God and how do I go from just existing as a most women like going through these motions of like yeah, I pray and I fast and I go to the mosque but to having more of a spiritual connection into having more like awareness of God and have not feeling so in his family stay like God is closer to you than your jugular vein. So like how do I get that feeling of like God is with me all the time and I really saw a job is when is it was like steps to take to build that closeness and spirituality and not just because I want God we know God tells us to wear hijab or the head scarf as an Act of Faith, but you really are a flag bearer like you are very visible muscle and so I joke with my husband and let you know when people see you they may think you're just as regular guy like they don't know your most of them from seeing you all do men are required to wear beards what beers are cool. So like everyone has to do anything that distinguishes men, but with a women when they see us generally people recognize if we were a child that yes, this is a visible Muslim. So when you talked about like purpose it made me think

31:21 How when I show up in the work that I do, so I do a lot of work to support immigrant communities to pass policies on like issues like police brutality things like that. So when I show up at a rally for immigration for undocumented immigrants, or I'm at the Capitol advocacy group policy or like we're at a protest. I'm not just there as me as a person who cares about it, but I'm also there as a member of the Muslim faith who stands for this issue of justice. So when I show up and I'm like a visible hichabi in a big crowd people see that all Muslims care about this issue or this is something that the Muslim Community showing up for they care about, you know, that impacted by immigration Wilson's on their own documents and Muslim to there Muslims are impacted by police brutality. But like we are visibly showing up and standing with our allies of standing with our partners. So I think that made me feel connected to your I'm pulling about purpose because you are I feel like functioning in the world in a different way now like you're very intentional and you're leading with Faith Like A lot of times

32:20 You have to let go through the motions of like like to go to class little worried about their money and pay our bills and things like that. But like operating in the those kind of steps with the hijab. I feel like gives. Like intentional purpose of like I'm doing all of these things, but I'm also like doing it for the sake of God like I take care of my kids if I'm a mom because that's for the sake of got it right I take that I like go to work so that I'm able to make a difference in the world in some way and I'm also doing it to please God. So I really like that connection to purpose things like that. And then also like, you know, I eat I definitely want to like respect the women who choose not to or however women choose to carry about their lives. Definitely a huge part of his job is Modesty and like the way we carry ourselves with integrity and and I agree with you like I often tell people it's like when I wear hijab, I'm forcing you to get to know me as a person to get to know like my character and my values and not just

33:20 I has this physical being that you can look at and judge. I thought they got people who may just like not so modestly. I mean that's totally their choice and and we respect that too and no matter what like people should be treated with dignity and respect and everyone should feel safe where they are and Ideal World. So yeah and I like to share that with people because in Islam it's not just on the responsibility of women to dress modestly but men have a responsibility to act modestly as well to not look at women in a disrespectful way not talk to them or treat them just respectfully or to make them feel unsafe, you know, so it's definitely not something that's just on us like men have that role in our face to treat women with respect that they deserve and women have like such a high role in Islam that like definitely I think that that's part of our teachings that often times. We like people in from the outside. I think I don't know that about Islam and they often think like oh,

34:21 You know the women are forced to do. Those are the women are treated in this way and men don't have any expectations of men and their expectations for their decorum and Derek the way they carry themselves and how are they being modest in like we often say like also people should know you're my son by like your actions and character and not just like by you saying it goes both ways when I want to talk. So yeah, I'm really I'm really excited to hear about your story. Thank you for sharing and and I'm glad that you're in this like right place and doing all their awesome work. So thank you so much. Thank you for taking time to be here and talking to me and sharing with me and I feel like I definitely gotten to know you unlike a much deeper level. Thank you. Yeah, of course. It was my pleasure to be here and I really enjoy talking to you as well.