Sulique Waqa, Juan Sanchez Marin, and Gigi Baxter

00:01 Good morning. Ladies. Good morning. Good morning me to pick lahia, and I'm really glad that we got this invitation from sorry card to be able to chest engage in these Sino at Tylenol as we call in the Pacific. It's sort of like a way to convert but I need to dialogue. So that's the concept that we often use a lot in the Pacific. I'm glad we having it this morning to include us and we part of this all the time and I can't think of anyone better. So let me first introduce this. Hello. Everyone. It's listening to this today is December 12th or 2019 and we are recording in New York. My name is Juan Miguel Sanchez Marine. I go buy one and my friend.

01:01 Ansar he him his I'm gay by birth in Spanish by nationality British spies residence and Asian by almost marriage and I'm here with two fantastic. Ladies are going to do some jobs now hiring B1 and Bulova Naka. I am Sleek Wonka from the Fiji islands. I am a transgender young feminists and activities human rights Defender. I am also and it dangerous to eat. Okay Fijian and it's so good to be here in New York. And also I'm with an organization called at the house of chameleons. I am transgender let feminist movement in Fiji that was formed in 2012 to look at the issues facing transgender people in Fiji, but also probably in the Pacific so I've been engaged in this work since 2012, but also back in high school.

02:01 I started stepping into the Civil Society movement particularly in the work of Human Rights and social justice movement.

02:13 Hello guitar. My name is Juju Baxter from the Republic of Vanuatu in the Southwest Pacific. My pronoun. Is she hurts and I'm very lucky to be here in New York from Vanuatu and being in a big city. Like this is also like I'm a little bit scared. But yeah, so representing fee Pride, which is the only LGBT organization back home who is mission is to you know, mobilize empowering advocate for LGBT people vs. So loud. It was interesting. Like I picked up when you said that you're feeling a bit scared and I'll be here and I really wanted to also chess can you know go around the room and really talk about the emotions that we have at this moment, but also in

03:13 Oceans that we bring into this table and then we're going to be taking back with us and all of those things. I know that we're at different levels of a energy of us. And you know everything in between and what's also coming and it's been an intense week for all of us and past few days with the training and I'm going to quickly go on to Wanda's going to talk about part of the reasons why we here in New York as a spot of the outright action International advocacy week for 2019 as the new cohort and envoys from the deepest parts of the world. So yes for you one here in New York. We are three of the 15 boys for more than 25 countries are participating in New York this week in the international bucket and what is international?

04:13 National which is one of the biggest LGBT LED Global organizations working for the advancement of LGBT rights over the world together activist still be able to create spaces and dialogue with the UN directly and we hear something around communities, but also I will treat you so I work with kaleidoscope trust which is an organization that works particularly with LGBT rights in the Commonwealth. I've been looking for a very long time in a shop. So I feel that I I have that moral obligation to go back and share with my community to ask about how we feel have to say that I feel dreams because being extremely intense, but at the same time super re-energized I have this

05:13 Feeling that this was so worth it for all of us right now in terms of what we've learned but also the people that we've met we have come together as a group of factory setup realize that we're in this together that were challenges are common and that the solution is to become as well. So we're here to fight the feeling today mentioned. I mentioned a lie about how I feel scared about. Well, I have to be honest. I'm very very fortunate to be here. And this is through outright action International that you know, you know gave me the opportunity to come to New York and to learn more about you know, like what you mentioned who want about engaging with the Diplomatic mission to the UN agency.

06:13 Rifle scopes with a systems of the mechanisms in place and how should we eat navigate our way around the mechanisms and

06:22 Yes, the weather is well. Oh my goodness from the islands. Like I mentioned in one of my emails that I didn't bring any winter clothes. But yeah, but what is so kind to me I have to be honest. I am, ties to New York weather and then use the mechanism a lot of influence more and then bring the good positive I back to the Pacific. Yeah, we made some progress in the UN for me really? It has been an intense can a weak battery for me yesterday. I was sharing with the Gigi. Let me know what I woke up and my body can't take it anymore. That's why we came late because I really couldn't take it any more like just you know a week ago. I was before coming to New York. I was at the Beijing + 35 in to cut metal.

07:22 Review process for the asia-pacific region and that itself was a very intense, no space to be at when we talkin about shrinking spaces for civil society. We felt it at that particular space particularly when we are meeting with member states and then Civil Society convening together and noting that all of a sudden the modalities for escape has totally changed and then we will not allowed to go into the room and Goshen speak. The negotiation has become very closed and that it drains out a lot of that intense energy. But even before that coming to Beijing I was involved is all in the one week and we'll event for the house of chameleon, which is our biggest event ever the annual transgender pageant call The Alley Seneca pageant that was intense. No rest at all. I came into

08:17 Best space and now I'm in New York for two weeks another very intense. So the emotions it's it's it's a lot for me but I must say I'm actually adapting very well just come into the room and sort of like, you know, I'll listen to the hopes and dreams of all the other activities in the room. I was really inspired to just get out of bed and continue to work but also, you know like you would Shake while sharing and say it's not a responsibility also a huge responsibility for all of us and if I may share a quote from Maya Angelou, you know, when I walk into the room on the when I come into a room I don't, this myself I come as 10,000, you know, so we come with that responsibility into a space. We don't come as individual we come as a reagent is a constituents were back home who couldn't take the trip to be here with us to be able to have their voices heard in the room. So it is a lot but

09:17 The responsibility that we've we've chose to take on, you know as activist against human rights Defenders and I'm always be energized when I'm surrounded by you want to buy you Gigi and activity like to thank you for what you need to inspire me. Is it you know personally that I wanted to bring up something that you brought up already and it's all about resistance of the status of women. So isn't the governmental body that sort of goes back to the seat or which is the the treaty for the right of the women at protection of Americans. So I would like to ask you guys because I'm I feel very lucky to have two amazing trans activist from the Pacific and I want to use this opportunity for you to bring more about

10:17 How do you perceive the system? How do you leave resistance nowadays?

10:23 I was going to take at 3 go to sleep earlier when we had the Equal justice Alliance coming into the Pacific. Can we convince this along with LGBT activists and women's rights movements are representative that one of the question was what is resistance what is resistance in your work? And how do you navigate around resistance to me? I always look at resistant in so many forms, but two in particular would be the resistance / resilience of activities to be able to navigate around oppressive systems the resistance that we're able to continue the work. I think that's something that we often don't have a conversation about that. Just having to exist within this very in a patriarchal capitalism neoliberal neo-colonial.

11:23 White supremacist kind of system is a way of really surviving as we're bodies as people of colors as black bodies for me. That in itself is a resistant that is this wonderful saying that every breath a trans person takes is an act of Revolution the fact that you breathing affect existing knowing that throughout the world the killings of transgender people and particularly people of color and here in the United States the statistics so far as of December 2019 is 23 that is disturbing and every year. I'll hide number of transgender women getting killed, but at the same time the movement is dancing.

12:15 You know, it's not a revolution and resistant does not happen in isolation on in silos. It happens within a collective. It happens within a movement of people with the same passion with the same drive with the same in a can of whoop-ass to be able to dismantle the system. So when you have that you are resilient and to me that is resistant and other resistance would be just the impression that we get on a daily basis throughout the world. We know as we never gave people are still facing I know about violence attack the weather is online on Spaces of work at home or in schools. That is the resistor that we are receiving at the same time as we navigated around clear bodies.

13:15 Wbcable, it is important to be visible. But visibility also comes with a lot of security risk. When you choose to be seeing you. Also putting your body in a very compromising easy target compromise way because people see you and they say you don't you know, you don't belong in gender Norms Ojeda, So when you get out of those labels categories the Norms of society is going to question you and they're going to come after you so they want to put you back into the box. I feel like I'm talking about girl sister.

13:52 Assistance with the word resistance in the movement is more about how we communicate as well and how we engage with one another, you know in political or in the work that we do and how we come to you no have time for ourselves to is just very important because doing this work, you know, I'm a majority of us freaks like for us in the Pacific still sleeping around the globe activism is how to pay Sprint for a living. So we need to have time for ourselves as well. And also, you know, we need to go pretty one with one another and stand in solidarity with. That's for me about resistance because I need it for me. We need to see how we know we're not going to do this work for a half hour.

14:40 You know, I mean sometimes if we were to be no transition to another planet like how you would say how have people do, you know people to be already in line and Provino's in this platform already fully equipped to carry on the fight building have to go on that sexual The Show Must Go On so that's more than just show ya something that you mentioned about resistance and into linkage of resistance and taking care of our bodies and I really wanted to ask this question to you for one and two when we talked about self care in the work that we do in the context of the work that we do self-care is a political Act. Of course, how do you

15:40 Take care of yourself and I took it cuz I know you be for you, you know, you're working throughout the regions in Asia in the past. And now you know London you have a brother kind of scope of global work in the Mandate that your organization is doing as well as your own personal kind of challenges that you never need around. How really do you take time off to just take care of yourself? I think that needs to be principal acknowledge one's self. You need to be aware when you are reaching your limit. Annually. I don't know your limits. I think that fundamental when you know that you're not absorbing any more information when you know that you are actually but they work is taking a toll on you or your relationships. You can use affect how we interact with our families with our friends. That's the time when you need to be aware of okay, I need to tip a cab in I need to take care of myself. If I'm not taking care of myself. No one is going to do it. That sounds

16:40 That I've learned for example when it was working in Myanmar because you're in such a hostile environment that you have these urge to keep working to keep working to keep working because you feel that if you sort of relaxed if you take a minute, it's going to eat you so you need to be there to keep on pushing keep on pushing. It doesn't work anymore. You need to be aware of your limits. You need to relax you need to find ways how to reconnect with your roots to your grounds you to ground yourself and the best way that I do it is through my family through my friends. I've learned a lot of fishing techniques. I do a lot of yoga for me sports or doing sports is a fantastic way of relaxing. I love cooking is like such a good fit up baby cuz you're so focused on your June doing there that you forget about everything else.

17:40 Yeah, of course love it. And for you miss Baxter, what do you sort of like to see how do you perceive for self-care and in the context of you work particularly in 112 as well as in the Pacific, you know, so they could you come to my country. I love to go to the beach or God why the hell it beaches swaying palm trees in tropical ocean? Oh my God. I want to come back. You just know when you have to wait to put your foot into sending its instant. Nice Can You Feel the Fire by hundred-handed pages on my God. It's the blue sea-water and the Beautiful Allison from so Majestic and I have to be honest that time when we went weekly over to another Island in central Islands in Vanuatu, and we went to this beach called pot already beach in Van Wert Soul. Oh my God, it was a mixture of seawater and freshwater.

18:40 Freshwater is actually blue. It's like what the hell is going on here? Like this is not a planet of it's so beautiful and I see how to really appreciate our surroundings nature our environment like those little things. I mean, it's like big things because you don't have access to it specially when you in big cities with over 8 million population and you know, it's not around here, but we often take that for granted in the Pacific like we have the beaches are we have fresh air fresh everything in order for us so we can going high to swim in the river. And sometimes you just need to take into the Blue Hole. Oh my God. It reminds me of that song. I keep going to the river to pray very spiritual in a way like you're Going Back To Nature to give you that energy and but you're not just depositing bad Vibe, but you also just honoring

19:40 Well, I'm at the planet that we all have a responsibility to take care of and I think a lot of us are not doing that which comes to that question of climate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so they can go to My Country Grammar organized a big fan. Of course. We have a lot of Nature and of course.

20:26 I'd like to know for me. I just want to just go out there and no disconnected from the world, especially with all this in technology the schedule that we have in everybody's very toxic. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you mean it's toxic? Cuz I know like if you talkin to like a millennial and someone who uses like they were Gadget the phone on a daily basis. Like what the hell are you talking about? I leave by this. I cannot live without my but what do you mean he's going to talk to me. I really want and I know you came from I just want to listen to really understand like what do you mean when you say talk save me but I got you some technologies the islands. We do not live with them and leave and have to go through with the cology daily. We still have a traditional value of neo traditional ways of communication that we still can't like in The Preserve at least they want to practice last daily, and I want to do is lay in

21:23 Catskill generously so that's what I mean by you know, I went I just wanted to say is disconnected. I find it very toxic and enough up at the upcoming generation like who knows probably 10 years from now, you know some of vernacular language R&B, you know slowly fading away and some of the Traditions to practice disappear instantly in the family with Facebook and other social media I go on a sabbatical and I feel like I have to just detached from you disconnect. I install the app Instagram and all that and I just Coolin my sabbatical cuz I need it. Sometimes you get so consumed with whatever is coming on your newsfeed like this a lot of energy. I look at you sister and just yesterday. I was thinking in 2020. I really want to delete everything just deactivate, but I also don't want to be

22:23 Like that because I know we leaving a digital world and that's the kind of dilemma that I'm exactly. I mean it's a difficult conversations to have because you do got a lot of good things but also at the same time if you did you would you like to give a snapshot of The Narrative of the trends in Pacific Okay, so

23:03 You know what? The term trance is Pacific. We don't really acknowledge or welcomed the term trans. We have a traditional identities of cultural identities than your Embrace and celebrate and we still you know, I can watch that and use that daily. We don't see if another sister has a trans girl Transformer. We see them as you know for Fiji to have a couple of teenage sexual. So we see each other as you know that those terms and I never narratives like the issues faced, you know, it's very funny because he not culturally it's accepted in a way but religiously it's not respected as much as you know, what's culturally any kind of clashes with each other and that's when he creates, you know, a lot of violence.

24:03 A lot of intense of access ability to Public Services is a little virus in place. So yeah this two things to do off of a form of colonialism Bethesda. No backlash into a way of living on a Raticate don't know a traditional practices back in the day. It's a nice life quote Sleek, you know, we would like to celebrate and where can I buy ancestors dreams like to revive but practice of his dad back in the days until exact quote. I will always love you no want to take with me around the world runs over Scorpio man, and you know very well that just the reason DJ that we have in Fiji. I celebrated events in the in the space. So coming back to this question like I mentioned earlier when we was not the backing up with translate who will continuously to Advocate and fight for the back of a future generation are our future generation, but also our generation 2 because the issues of

25:03 And we went to a notary around Aspen beautiful France, especially trans life or your tax return that we used in the foreign lands. And that is an important conversation particularly when we talkin about indigenous square body. Like how do we get we can talk about cultural identities and you know, I celebrating a cultural industrial venues. We not having a conversation about decolonization we come from a region in the Pacific and you can share two free to share your part of the region of the world way. We inherit a lot of these colonial-era laws, and those laws came with the criminalization of our bodies. We were labeled when our colonizers came in.

25:59 As one parent has came into our lands as sex objects or as soon as an introduction of Christianity and was interesting when Jesus share with me one day one when she came to that guy my God, I was in the library in Vanuatu the other day and I came across this text and it was the the Journal of Captain Jake Kaplan Jaguar coupe who sailed into the Pacific but did not discover the Pacific because I'm Cecil D discover the Pacific just like how Columbus did not discover America indigenous Americans are they did discover America so

26:41 And I think that's the very important, narrative in conversation to always have like you can talk about indigenous queer identities without talking about the colonization that things like that. So yeah, I think we need to really revive like that and I keep you know sharing the message that it is the reason why we are here particularly in Beijing in the conversation because we have the responsibility to our land Avenue and Avenue a but we'll eat our people our ancestors. I am part of the ancestors who did not give Fiji away because we were given away by certain shoes for to the British and that's how we became a colony, but I was not come from in dentistry who did not give Fiji way and to me and moving around navigating around it's always at the top of my head that I have that responsibility in that message.

27:41 To always make sure that their dreams is alive and we are celebrating who we are and not who they said. We should be. Let me see entire world. Are we seeing how gender definitions are being narrow down where we see how gender has been completed when sex in the UK, for example. Now we have this massive discussion about Arabs. Discretionary feminists.

28:15 I don't know how we have organizations that advocate for the Erasure of trans people and that's happening in Europe in 21st century. And this is by feminists or by generally LG lb LLC community. So I'm not able to see that nowadays Racine out how you bring together your transness, but also you didn't eat enough sweetness how you feel Drake yourself and how your culture allow you to do. So, so, how do you how do you fight against East Colonial discourse? What's happening in Fiji now?

29:08 Or what's happening Vanuatu?

29:11 I think I'll stop at 12 with no.

29:14 Thing 1 Thing 2 between highlights in the beginning is how you know, the Pacific the Pacific is it separated into three different regions itself? So we have to put on usually after Micronesia and we have melanesia that I'll speak for. Melanesia Polynesia is Vanuatu Fiji in New Caledonia, Papua, New guinean Solomon's novel Papua New Guinea's to Amazon Vanuatu.

29:44 If we're talking about

29:50 That what you called let you know the chance.

29:56 The way of living in in in in in current times is very hot, and you know the British action with Aloha the colonizers I should eradicate it from for traditional practices and they made the people think that you know, the kind of compel the people to see it as being bad and love full and religiously and Christian is a sinful, you know, so, you know, we cannot be celebrated as in lgbtq people respectively in our own country to another account, speaking of being particularly Fiji, but it's just what some of the volume at 2 and 4 / New Guinea and practices that it still exists. Like for example play Black Magic and pizza place in Cecilia exists. And we believe that you know, those are the people that cannot see no erase because it's part of something that is on your generation to generation.

30:56 And I think you know because of a Superstition the power around 2, but they managed to take away the erase, you know, Timmy ologies of what cultural identities and that is something that we really try to you know, revive reclaim and you know, we don't have two are enough space because we already in the space in our contract, but we need to knock you know, and I respect people Tree Service victims and ensuring we like to know to be remembered that we are part of the community of the conversation is recognizing that the construction on definition of the gender binary gender Notions of gender and the theory of gender that we continue to navigate around is Western and that was something that was kind of forced upon us. So recognizing that yes, we are, you know culturally

31:56 Braided throughout our own Allen Sinatra on Pandora is important because it kind of a question that binary notion of gender because when you know that, you know you as a place of indigenous queer person, you do have a place in your culture in your land in your van or in your playing in society you in a place to be able to kind of question that sister but also really to construct binary notion of gender and I seen that the value of knowing who you are but really celebrating who you are as an indigenous queer person, but also reclaiming that part of Who You Are

32:44 So a lot of these systems that we're facing particularly within General in societies, but we've also found out in our own movement in our own spaces, like you mentioned the trans exclusionary radical feminist, but we also have very ethno-nationalist conservative religious so-called families in the Pacific who do exclude us from women's faces and who say that we don't belong in those places because we are in a biologically born male and male birth and that we shouldn't be in women faces and then we are willing to watering down women's agenda women's issues and it's really not discouraging and it it it brings a lot of anger to it sad to say that, you know, are you have feminist who's talking about dismantling systems of patriarchy but at the same time they are displaying

33:44 System over pressurization metric units so in a way they become the oppressor was talking about equality and Liberation for certain groups of women because equality Liberation should be about all women women of all out diversity is as much about certain women. So that's the kind of conversation that we're challenging lyrics to Beauty challenge not just in the women's faces even within the LGBT spaces are people saying that all transgender people are just too much or they just making a lot of noise all they taking over the movement. All these shouldn't be but if you look at it and in reality most parts of the world transgender people face a high level of violence murder happening is happening in front of your doors and you have to take that into account. Do you know taking over the movement? They are taking the right to play?

34:44 In the movement where they belong they should just like any other of our lgbtiq folks. This is about no ass coming together is not about certain identities taking over. This is about solidarity movement building and I think we need to take that into account. This is not you know, it should be about competition. It should only be about my visibility should make you are so let's fish. Let's visit Brighton Co make you feel intimidated know that has nothing to do with me at all. Remove me out of the conversation that has to do with you and how you feel towards me and that is something that we need to point out. It has nothing to do with being a trance. It is something to do with the way you feel about being around. Trance. Now. This is more like, you know and packing

35:36 We need to unpack those feelings to attend 11 that also comes back to self care of you because we need to start. You know, how many is the conversations around how we filled with one another the energy around us underway in Black. We need to start unpacking those things those so you know those issues are the pirates that we feel and then we can stop, you know, laying out or cementing out to know solidarity and how we can work together to bet, you know to better our line of work and also the visibility of us in the in the in the movement. Absolutely we all are together. So I'm just I think we have only 5 minutes left. So I just want to touch you guys, but what can we do in order to better Center trans issues than what's the lesson learned here would like to share from your own contacts because it is not only about trans people in feet.

36:36 Results about two Spirits in North America. This is about the heater has in Central Asia. And so there's an issue around trans issues around the world. How do we Center trans issues?

36:52 The global North movements particularly here in North America, but also in Europe have a lot of privileges in terms of accessibility access what we've talked about exes. I'm going to particular point out access to resources for example, a lot of back of the resulting in the fund to advance LGBT rights globally is sentence in the global not but also most importantly the decisions are taking place here or where the money should be taking place right here in New York is taking place in London is taking place in Brussels or anywhere else and I think what's the global North and they've been providing that's why I'm very grateful to organizations such as outright action International equality Justice Alliance Kaleidoscope because they

37:52 Continue to Center and bring in a global South activist into the Spain and this is providing that opportunity for us not just to be hurt but also be part of the decision-making on where the results should be great, but really setting the agenda for the movement and what we need to be prioritising or what we need to be strategizing and refocusing and I think that's important step the recognition that a yes Global self has voice that is just a legitimate as you own and we need to be bringing that mean to the conversation to the old so, you know having them at this place has to be able to contribute.

38:38 But I also feel that there's a lot that the global North should be learning from the activism in the organizing in the global South which is very important. It is not just about us looking at the global North and say oh that's how they ride do it like a civil union and marriage equality is what the global North agenda is politically with cisgender white men and that's Global South shoot between that no, it's not that it's totally different. If you don't understand the context of complexity of our region than I think we won't be able to meet at a place where we can understand each other. So maybe have a place and understand each other is about that making sure that understanding that the issues a different in every chains like the issues than Asians are totally different from Asian groups. That is Asia or not. You know Bill is that the amount and I think by making sure that we have any

39:38 The sectional representation of the different queer bodies around the world into the moment. We'll be able to you know, it will amplify at work but also a message and I got and I think and I think it must happen it is taking place but it shouldn't be about okay. I'm pouring resources that I'm still helping out. It's not about taking over. It's about a holding a partnership and collaboration and we seen very important collaboration that has taken place like a mansion with his organization. I don't know about you girl. How you feel about that?

40:22 Global North and the global South sometimes I just wonder if you have to fly to be my age of Bangkok of Singapore.

40:39 Do you ever think like in the ocean? What is the ocean? So that is specific. Like don't you ever wonder what's down there? I think people living there or their islands of do exist. So that's just for me like, you know, if some of the seats in the plane, no looking at that navigation, whatever you call it on the video. Do you ever wonder why do people live down there to their Island? What is the issues are there similar to my issues? I would like charge of the buffets daily. Yeah, so I'll just leave it like that. We don't just want people to think we should really interesting because we are not just about beautiful beaches with palm tree beautiful shorelines and lovely Seafood know that we more than that. We have really existential crisis issues that we facing in the region.

41:39 You feel about climate change and we also come from a region of growing religious fundamentalism militarisation and you know, a lot of really depressed since that are happening in there. But the reality for the United reality for all people particularly LGBT people is getting worse and was still trying to recover and hangover from this colonial off at 1 and we are continually face a lot of setbacks oppressions. Then she came back from our governments are only does. So do take the time to not just visit for relaxation for really hear what the Grassroots activism Community leaders are saying and I wanted you to hear because they can't do this alone. To be honest. We can't there's a reason why we live on this planet and we are asking all of you Americans Europeans. Whoever Asia

42:39 Just listen to us move tell you how it should be. You know, and I think we will be in a better place and I hope to come back and talk about some positive vibes and some progress in the future if we get the imitation of sure, of course, maybe much. Let's come back in my chip top you just discovered. So yes, I do. I just want to say quickly. Thank you too. Sorry for the hold up Trinity and write outright action International for the three of us to be able to deal with this till amazing x-rays.

43:39 32r on how much you like off of room when you get into it. So thank you so very much and I think you two have already said everything a big Pacific Tatiana, and thank you to you know this opportunity and looking forward for the weather in Cape May. Thank you.