Teaching Doubts - Isabella Clements

00:01 Hello, my name is Isabella Clements. I am a student currently studying in education. And all over the world, the one thing that is common in teachers is there are students all over the world wanting to grow up to be a teacher. Some of you listening may even be studying to become a teacher now. And one thing that everyone experiences is doubts. Whether it's doubts about oneself, doubts about the schools, or maybe even the students, everyone always their own doubts. However, what is a good way to get through those doubts instead of letting them conquer us? As a student who is studying to be a math teacher, I have those same questions. So today I have my uncle, Professor Travis McKinney, at Bellevue College in Bellevue, Washington, here to talk with us about what it is like to be a student with doubts, or even being a teacher with doubts as well. So we can possibly get some clarity on what to do now. Uncle Travis, thank you for joining us.

01:04 It's my pleasure.

01:05 All right, so let's start off by telling me a little bit about yourself, where you come from, if you enjoy where you're currently teaching, if there's anything that you are in view of doing differently, like you're thinking about moving to a different place or anything like that.

01:28 Okay, a little bit about me. I'm from Ohio, as you know, Barberton, Ohio, and grew up there for 20 years, moved around and never, ever had it in my mind to be a teacher. I was a very average student. Didn't like teaching. I didn't like studying. Sorry. Until we'll get to when that changed. Maybe later. But eventually I decided to. To go into education. So we ended up in Seattle. About 10 years ago. I was teaching at Rutgers University. I taught there for half a decade in New Jersey, and then we ended up out here at Bellevue College. Now I'm an assistant professor in the English department, and I also teach in the health sciences. And as far as where I teach, no, I'm thrilled. I love it. I have no desire to leave. I finally am on the tenure track. I should hopefully reach tenure within a year and a half. So, no, I'm thrilled to be there.

02:29 Awesome. Awesome, awesome. So like you said, it wasn't always your thought to be a teacher. What kind of led to being a teacher? Was there any, like, background in teaching or was there a personal reason for wanting to teach?

02:47 Well, when I was in secondary school, all throughout secondary school, I just didn't enjoy my time there. I mostly felt that what I was learning had no practical purpose. I think that for me, when I was in middle school and high school, the Education that we received just seemed to be for the purposes of education. It didn't seem like I could apply it much to what I was going to do in the world. At least that's how it felt to me. So I was an average student. I got through. I mean, I had like a B something average. And then I went to college and I worked full time for a year while doing that. And then I dropped out of college. I hated it. This was around 1999, 2000ish. And I quit for three years and didn't know what I wanted to study. Eventually decided to go back to school. And when I did, I went to a community college for two semesters to just get some of my credits going and then transferred to a college in Boston. And it was there where I encountered professors that changed my life. They had done something that I had never seen before, I had never experienced, which is what they connected what I was learning to my life in a way that education suddenly seemed to open up into this vista that I could walk in and actually like live forever. It felt like a warm blanket. It was just amazing. And so the professors at that college, it's Emanuel College in Boston, I am eternally grateful for because they were clearly so, so passionate about their, their field. And they made me want to learn forever. They made me want above all else to be a student. And I really think if you want to be a good teacher, you have to see yourself as the first student. In other words, you are always a student. And if you do not see that, if you think that you are the person that knows everything when you're standing in front of the classroom, things are probably not going to work out well in education for you. You have to share with students that you are a student first and will always be. And I think you have to really love that. That changed for me. And then I. And then I went into to study English literature and rhetoric composition and eventually nutrition science. But yeah, it was the professors that did it.

05:28 Awesome. Awesome. I mean, I'm the exact same way. That's kind of why I ended up wanting to be a teacher, was the teachers that I had growing up, it wasn't so much of always wanting a student, but wanting to be that amazing teacher for somebody else so somebody else could kind of learn. And especially with math, I know a lot of students struggle to comprehend math or just even get like the basics of it because it's so confusing. I kind of wanted to be that teacher that could break it down to them, make it simple, make it Easy and almost even make it fun. So I completely understand that. So, like, you, I know that you had said that you dropped out for a little bit, and obviously that was a struggle. What was kind of the struggle that occurred to get you to do that while you were, you know, in school at the young age? And now that you are a teacher, how would you like, what would you do differently? If you would do anything differently?

06:29 If I could go back in time as a student.

06:31 Yep.

06:32 Yeah. Well, what led to dropping out was I was working 45 hours a week, and I was taking classes at the University of Akron nights and weekends, and I just. I just couldn't. I just couldn't do it and maintain passion. I just felt like this was just a waste of time. Again, I didn't find. I don't know, it was. Maybe the instructors that I encountered, they just weren't very. It seemed interested in their field. This has nothing to do about how intelligent they were or anything like that. I just felt like there was nothing there for me. And so I thought maybe I would go into aviation. So I started flight training. So when I dropped out of school, my partner and I moved down to Raleigh, North Carolina. He got a job there. And I. So I started flight training at Raleigh Durham international. And then 911 happened. And so they were laying all these pilots off. And the forecast for becoming an airline pilot, which was what I wanted to do at that point, was looking bad. So I thought, oh, I got to go back to college and study. What? I had no idea. What would I do differently? You know, a lot of this is as a consequence of my social class growing up. I mean, we didn't have a lot of money. We didn't have much money at all. And so my parents really couldn't help with the cost. And so I had to do it, you know, and so many of my own students are in that same position, and I know that. That they come to class, they have, you know, tired, they have families, they have sometimes multiple jobs. They have a whole bunch of things going on, plus certainly more than just my class to worry about. So, you know, if I were to go back in time, what would I do different? I'd be wealthier, which you can't just do. Right?

08:20 Right.

08:21 Yeah, that's the best thing. So really, so what this says to me, at least as an educator, is that I wish higher education in particular were more accessible and affordable for students. What I see now is just that, you know, students are graduating with so much debt. I mean, basically, they have a Mortgage of debt. And then they end up having to go back home and live with their parents because they can't pay rent. And this is just not the way. The way I see it as a teacher now, I can't see this as the way that the United States should be handling education. It's. It's just putting an albatross around students. So what would I do differently? I would pray for, I guess, more affordable education. Right. I mean, does that make sense?

09:06 Oh, no. I mean, 100%. I mean, all that you could have done, really, in that situation, and even though you were in that situation, I don't think that really, you should have done anything different, considering the life you're living now. Everything worked out exactly how it was supposed to, regardless of, you know, if it was fun or not or if it was a struggle or not. I mean, you got through it and you came out on the other side even better, living, I mean, an amazing life in Washington and everything like that. Well, you kind of answered my next question about having a strong support system, helping you through school, things like that. You did say that you did grow up on the poor and you weren't able to have that help at home, which is. All right. Not a lot of students do. I mean, like, as you said, a lot of students struggle with that and struggle with now with finding financial aid because it mainly relies on your parents. And if your parents make a certain amount, but yet they're still not helping you while you're still, you know, helpless. And you gotta pay that. So 100%. Now, as yourself, as a teacher, as an adult, did you have any doubts about being a teacher like yourself? As in fear of failing as a teacher or not being like a liked teacher?

10:28 Yeah. I'm only laughing because. Yes.

10:32 Okay.

10:33 The thing is, when you are thinking, at least for me, I can only speak for myself. When I was thinking about becoming a teacher, I thought, oh, this is going to be great, because I'm going to do what I saw in the professors that I loved and channel my passion into the class, which you should do. That's definitely a good thing. And I thought, oh, my God, I can't wait. I can't wait. And then the day comes when you get some, you know, some institution contacts you for an interview, and you're like, oh, wow, I'm getting closer. And then you go for the interview and you get the job. And then you step into class that first day, and it is so different from anything you would ever have thought. First of all, I will say you will never feel older than standing in front of a group of students who are far younger than you, don't understand any of your references anymore, and you go, wow, okay. And you just feel like, wow, I don't really know how to teach. Like, even if you go through. Even if you go through teacher training and you have some experience in the classroom, I will just say this. I never. I didn't know how to teach until. I mean, I didn't even feel like I had any control over my teaching that I was happy with until my third or fourth year. Until then, it just felt like chaos every time I'd walk in. I mean, I have my lesson plans and everything, but it was just. It was extraordinarily challenging. And I'm not getting off track with the question.

12:00 My answer, no, no, you're perfectly fine. You're good.

12:03 Yeah. So my point is just to say that what I imagined teaching to be was not anything like teaching actually was until maybe the fifth year again. And then there was another jump probably five years later, where I felt even more confident in being able to teach. So now I'm in my 14th year of teaching, and it's quite different from the first five years. Oh, my God. That was really challenging.

12:33 Okay. Okay. And then how. With these doubts and stuff, how have you overcome these doubts and these fears and your students most likely hold because of how common, you know, these doubts are in themselves, whether they're studying, you know, to be a teacher themselves or anything in their lives. You know, everybody has doubts when it comes to their profession that they're going to choose. How do you overcome those doubts and those fears? And how do you almost help your student? Your students do those as well?

13:08 Well, there are a few. One is you have to stumble for a while, meaning there is no way out of stumbling around for two or three years at least to try to just get your footing so you'll enjoy it. But it's just you're always feeling a little disoriented because there's so much to learn in class. And many times you will feel that your lesson is completely failing. But the students don't know. You know, they just don't see it from your perspective. And so they think everything's fine, and you're. And then you're going back to your office or going home thinking, oh, my God, what disaster. So, one is you have to. You have to make mistakes, right? That is required. That will take some time. The other thing that I did to increase confidence was I remember I talked about being A student, as an eternal student. And I still feel this way. So I still attend lectures of professors around the state and the country when I can. I go to conferences to hear presentations around the country. I am part of, like, for example, the great courses, which is a. I don't know if you know that website. It's a software where professors from all over the world put together courses that people can access anywhere. So if you didn't study a certain subject, you can learn, like, you can go through the whole course and you can listen to how people teach and see, like, you can sample different people's approaches and then see, like, oh, that's how they do it. And that's how this person does it. You start to take a little from here and a little from there and put it together and you start to develop your own style after a few years. So in other words, you have to keep. You have to keep learning to keep watching, I think, and listening to other instructors who have done this and have been there.

14:56 Yeah.

14:56 And then the third part I would just add to this. And this might be my own neuroticism, or it might just be my own penchant for self criticism, but there are days where I go home from teaching and I want to quit. And the reason is not. It has nothing to do with the students or my institution or anything like that. But there are just some days where, you know, you get up in front of class and you want to deliver a lesson a certain way and it's not going well and you feel almost like your brain just is working, like I can't get out the words the way I want to, and it can make you really doubt yourself. And the only thing I have learned to do with that is to realize this is simply part of the ebb and the flow of becoming better. You know, like, one of the things I did growing up is I played pool and I eventually became a professional pool player for a long time.

15:52 Yes, sir.

15:53 And what I learned, what I learned from that though, was that before you get like, before you make a jump to get better at the game, permanently better, you often get a little better and then fall and you're in this rut for a while and suddenly you jump up and it's permanent and you're permanently better than you were. And so sometimes those ruts that you fall into can be a sign of coming progress. So you must keep the faith. You must stick with it. It will come. So I've had to really trust that. And that really comes from my training and playing pool which could come from any skill or game that someone plays.

16:31 Yeah awesome. Absolutely. Absolutely amazing. I love the fact of the advice of the perseverance and the keeping the faith especially if you want to be a teacher. I mean that's the main goal is to get there and to do it and to do it properly and to do it well and to be that you know that student's teacher that they remember in 30 plus years that you know it's that's why I'm doing it at least. But I cannot thank you enough for coming on here and telling us your story and advice on your doubts especially because they are something that can hold many people back me being one of them. I can say that your advice will definitely be very helpful to many who are wanting to or have already became a teacher.

17:17 Well thanks so much for asking Bella I really appreciate it.

17:19 Of course, thank you.