Tiffani Martin and Lisa Winkley

00:03 My name is Tiffany Martin. I am 31 today's date is November 6th 2019. I am in Dallas, Texas and I am here with my friend and Lisa Miss wink wink Lee.

00:20 My name is Lisa winkley. I am 39 years old. It is Wednesday, November 6th, 2019. I am here in Dallas, Texas with my friend Tiffany.

00:35 My friend Tiffany, she's pretty cool. What is your first memory of me, though?

00:43 I have never seen you in my life before. But you're not joking.

00:51 I can't I can't really pinpoint my very very first memory my very first funny memory was the nice concert when we got to see the bomb Factory out here that was just a fun night to me and I got to get out the house and everything and it was just kind of exploring Dallas meeting the delivery driver having fun talking to random strangers and stuff like that. So that's like not my first memory but my fondest memory of me, but like I enjoyed it with you though, like okay, I understand. I understand. Let's see. I'm trying to think of my first memory. My first memory of you was not a memory of having seen you but hearing of you your reputation preceded meet meeting you because I had

01:51 I heard that there was this really cool girl named Tiffany at my job and she knows this and she travels here and she's been doing these cool things but then like she's sick right now. So we need to pray for her. And then that that was my introduction to you in my life was there was this wonderful Tiffany out there somewhere, but I haven't actually seen you before but I pray for you even before I knew you did, you know, I was blind I did not I just knew when you met me that was like that was when I found out you could not see with your eyes.

02:29 What else was all I all I knew was there was this person at my job whose daughter had fallen ill I didn't even know what you were ill from which I think that was probably no good. They kept your privacy and things of that nature and we should make sure we stay in prayer for her and I just said, okay, so you just got General prayers of getting Wellness because I didn't even know what to specifically pray for for you and I was blind correct because that is how much it was not shared whatever was going on. It was just generally described as she is ill and then somewhere along the line, you know, I didn't really hear specific getting better reports. There was a mix of you had to have surgery at some point, but I didn't even know what the surgery was for it was

03:29 That much kind of out of my radar but you know, just trying to do what I could with what information I had was like, well, I'll make sure I pray for her because at this point, I've been hearing you about being sick for a long time now, so yep that that was my introduction of you in my world. That's why I also say before that. I only heard of how cool you were from several different people and I just got a description of that is it I would describe you that way before now and I'm sure even in future now, but I only heard good things so that's where

04:16 I made sure who let me pray extra hard for her because it sounds like she sounds like me because that's really what the description of me of you Tiffany you are in the world and it sounds like she needs to get back to her regular life.

04:33 There's really funny that we like I just I don't know. I guess I assumed everybody knew.

04:39 But you have to remember I can move back here that long before hearing all of this when I first started my job. So I didn't know who anyone was to have known to put any kind of history behind it. So that was my first impression sort of and then my first in real life impression, I believe was in a meeting and

05:09 I just remember thinking like oh, she's smart. I feel like I am terrible at meetings because I'm all

05:16 Like in my

05:17 And I can't really pick up shoes from other people. So it's just like I'm just going to toss it out there, but then I know with like you and several other of our mutual friend is it would be like yes, this is always so and I'm like, yes, we have support like and I beg to differ. I think you pick up cues just why you make a point to sit by certain people cuz you're received those who choose whether you want to or not.

05:44 Would you believe me? If I said I said by certain people as like a method of comfort as opposed to trying to make a strategy sure cuz I do that to you. It's not intentional to be like

06:03 How old is how I get my points across it's almost like I need somebody to kind of like nudge me a little bit to be like hey either cut it short or hey.

06:15 Maybe bring it back in or what not and then I found with you that you can do very subtle cues that like is like okay and then I can just keep going or at or maybe

06:29 You know not go against but kind of like give a different perspective that challenges something that I've you know said that make me think like well, maybe that's not the end-all be-all solution. So I try to be diplomatic. Is that how you would describe me know? You're very diplomatic. I am not I feel like reckon we and that's why I think a lot of my friends are like

06:54 Very peaceful very neutral

07:01 I'll Alex of that description of me. You don't think your people know I do that's why I said I'll accept it. I I think that you are such a plotting radical good-intentioned person that it makes it exciting and that's just one of the reasons I love being your friend because I'm not that person. I'd like to think that in my mind and my own like

07:33 Comic strips, I make up about me that I'm some radical person, but I don't see that you're very meticulous and calculated that is with a good or bad, But I also think like you're super responsible in the most disgusting way. Will you are responsible as well? Absolutely not. I am Reckless and I embrace my recklessness you turn in library books on time excitedly. That is gross and here's the thing. Let me tell you how more excited I was I went to the library when I got my new iPad to purposely have them show me how to use the app. So I got all synced up to be able to check out books from the app. No check out the audio versions of books on that, but then I still went and checked out actual books to take home. I just want to look. Like why

08:31 Kind of sort of like I know it sounds real cheesy. But you know, there's that line in Sex in the City when she's in the bed and she opens a book and she's like I just love the smell like there's something okay. I have his bookmark when I was younger and it's stuck with me and it said a book as a present that you open again and again and I always feel like that is like a Hallmark card. I love that. I do get to open it again and again and it's just like this present that keeps giving to you with more of a story The more you really really sad about this is you finally believe this I like this completely like even if we weren't in a library parking lot, I would still be enthusiastically talking about a library in books unicorns book Sinclair. That is you're welcome. So, I mean, you're not reading books. What are you doing?

09:26 Spending time with my new nephew my friend nephew.

09:33 My family

09:36 We spend a lot of time like

09:40 Kitchen dinner dinner table Sunday, you know after church like we're that family. Mom. Dad my sister her husband and my husband and we just every Sunday we meet up we have dinner and we discuss

10:07 I mean an array of things that could be some serious topics to most like you no more light-hearted things, but we just we talk like it's everybody kind of says it's like this anomaly, but I'm like not really like this is what people used to do and it just it would be foreign to me to like not

10:30 See my family.

10:32 Really? Nope, but that's a late visit my family at any point, you know throughout the week or the month or something like that. So

10:44 I go home on Sunday, and I'm very excited if I don't have to go anywhere else. Not that I don't like doing things but it is a day of work that shorter for me. So I have the luxury of leaving work and seeing daylight hours and

11:09 My family, they're not all here. Like, you know, I grew up in a military family. My parents are divorced now my sister and brother-in-law are stationed in Las Vegas and they took my niece with them fancy. And yes, I mean, I am so fancy Auntie from afar for sure, but we got spoiled when they were new here in Texas with us while my brother-in-law was deployed. So they were around for me to at least be able to drive to and see or I would have her come up and hang out with me for the weekend and I loved it because I didn't get to be that nice to know I grew up in a military family. So we only saw cousins and aunts and uncles and grandma and my grandma is the best person in the world and I am her favorite and I really wish my cousin would try to challenge that but they wouldn't dare.

12:09 I have that even though we were far so that sounds lovely what your family has every Sunday, but it's not even physically possible if we wanted to do it. Well, my dad is with your dad. Songs about the same like your I do y'all go out for like Veterans Day I go. My dad is not far. He's about a good living 30 minute drive from where I live and it's cool how close I am with my dad now not that like we've never had a bad relationship or anything. It was just hey, it's my dad. He's a parent here in the house and I was more interested in hanging out with my friends and things but when I moved back from New York a lot of it was for him because my dad he is retired twice from the military and from his government job.

13:09 And he also is schizophrenic and it was a lot learning that about my dad but such a relief when we learned that about my dad can put

13:24 A diagnosis is sassily and it made all the difference of going forward with now hanging out with my dad. And that is where we come to this place of going to Golden Corral all the time or me, making sure that he's eating green vegetables or challenge apparent almost as he would never ever say that but I actually I'm pretty comfortable with that at this point because knowing things about my dad now is what makes us closer cuz we never really were close close. We were just like regular parent. So did that like child is start after his diagnosis was this like college did it? I would say it was

14:15 Going that direction even before the diagnosis like that. I can honestly say that but I was more intentional about it after that and just kind of stepping up to the plate of the oldest child, you know kind of you. My dad is not remarried or anything. So hey, we going to be best friends whenever you want to or not. Dad and I respectfully still clash about all kinds of things and that is actually perfectly okay because the understanding comes before that and the clashes actually remind me of the clashes with my sister as well because she's turning out to act similar to him despite the schizophrenic parts of it. Like my sister is not diagnosed with schizophrenia, but she just asked

15:14 That is the same with my sister. What is up with your sister? Cuz your sister is younger than you like mine is right. Yeah, but like you seen have you have you been around like they're going to actions not that person and it is the worst or the best cuz you love your dad really love my dad. But like she'll say something and I'm like, you're like a little female.

15:47 Trinket version of bad and she's like cuz we're going on like does that mean she's like seriously like the similarities between like our sisters are like is uncanny like so your sisters married. My sister is a married sister. Just had a baby. My sister had a baby almost two years ago to take both act like father's name.

16:17 Like I'm fancy and see what your aunt named TT TT. Okay. Alright, I don't Envision a baby trying to say auntie Tiff and it's just like a lot of work and phonetically like too much for a child. So I have not met a child that can say the L and Lisa, so I'm always Issa so I understand.

16:38 No.

16:41 Yeah, it's just like crazy and I know.

16:45 Like I'm super close with my sis like that is my best friend and we talked about like pretty much everything. Is that the same with you and your little sister or not so much. We definitely became closer when she had the baby but you needed help. I don't know if she would claim that my mother and I were going to give her the help if she asks whether or not there was a two kind of stages. I guess you would say of my sister Megan and I we actually grew up with a family of five there were three daughters. So I'm the oldest we had our middle sister Regina and she passed away interesting ly enough, her birthday is next week and I was reflecting on that and it has been V know when it's been 19 years.

17:45 19 years. I was 20 when my sister was in a car accident in the middle of college in the middle of college. I was away at TCU. I was in TCU, but I was actually home for the summer. You're just on summer break and I was almost time for me to go back cuz it's that car accident happened in August. And then I'm 20. My sister is 16 Reginae and then my little sister Megan is 10. So we're just bouncing along and our lives, you know, college students middle high school basketball player or after-school job at a fast-food plays sneaking in and out the house because I caught her and bribed her many times because that's what we do and you know, definitely with both of my sisters as I'm sure you relate to these are my kids half the time not my parent.

18:45 Kids and I'm just helping us all try to figure out how to raise each other for sure cuz only take did you get the you're at the store and someone thinks this is your child situation never got it. Really? That's what you got. Well because I got high and I was definitely a blossomed in developed preteen teenager. So yeah, if I'm at the store they went think Regina was my child but oh it was definitely a possibility that maybe it might have been my kid and we both joke about it now like I want to stay there was my birthday one year and she like fake gave me a Mother's Day card trying to be funny about it, but she's not funny. Not funny don't laugh. So anyway, so my sister Regina she was in a coma for half a year did not know yes part of the story at all. Yes, so that was a very interesting.

19:44 Perspective on life and death because we really that whole entire time things were completely back and forth like was going better was not and I don't remember the medical term of the type of coma she was in but it wasn't that was a whole thing, which is why we didn't know with all of the brain damage. Like how was this going to turn out because her eyes were awake. She did slight turns but she had like her feeding to some days. She was completely sleep all day and then some days she was like mildly reactive to what was going on cuz like she had to go to physical therapy to make sure I mean here was a real thoughts across their mind of course was hey, you will wake up like you see on TV shows and snap out of this coma and we're just going to have her old sister Regina back.

20:44 Or things would not necessarily get better and we just needed to learn this life of this different version of Regina that we were going to have and there really was no true conclusion of that. So we just lived in this limbo place of Hospital home and just kind of tracking her progress. Okay, cuz I'm curious cuz I know my health how they played a huge factor in the dynamic of my family. But how how did they roll out for you? Because it it altered I was out like a light and my family from my sister and I how she handles anxiety is

21:34 Limmy, I can't control what's going on. So let me work out because I can control that so she separated herself and not in a bad way. Like let me let me phrase. It. It wasn't like this is too much. Let me leave it was I need to find an anchor there is none. I'm in the middle of school my sister cuz they never told her how bad I was. So the only time she saw me cuz she would call and I would literally be at like cuz she was awake. So yeah, and so they never told her we never seen pictures. So the only time she wow, I didn't realize that the only time she saw me is when she graduated and when she saw me I went from realized 65 down to 109 and my vision has started to leave my hair fall out. So when she saw me and I remember seeing her face in my eyes. I hadn't fully left she

22:33 Otterbase like she look like somebody just wow shattering a chest and I'm getting on like a you're graduating what you do math, like, you know focus on that, but it was like very evident that like she is like somebody hit her with a bus and I feel like a caged my parents because you know, there will be times like, you know, when I start walking and then I had to like relearn how to walk I would hear my mom just like sobbing in corners and I'm like, you know, it took a toll on everybody. My dad will have to like

23:13 Walk and come back and you know, you know, my dad talks like he's never want to be at a loss for words, but he was it would be a lot of Silent times and I how old were you

23:28 27 with everything kind of like hit and it was fast. Like nobody said I was like literally like in September I went to LA and in my head, I like that. I got offered two jobs and I was like, I'll just commute back and forth from Dallas to La like that. We got it like that. We have it like that and that's what I'm going to do and I woke up one morning and my eyesight on one eye. It was just blood just like wow and I just remember screaming and my dad called me and he's like, well, let's go and that started.

24:04 Just a series of doctors appointments finding out what's going on and I kid you not it's like December came. I was down to a buck nine and wait January came. They're putting me on to talk about dialysis by March. I was on dialysis lost the ability to walk and April fully line. So there was never a grieving. I didn't realize that was that it was sort of a time span so fast, there was no grieving. I don't even think my parents had enough time to catch their breath by the time my sister graduated and came back home. It was like she came back home and went right into like responsibilities like. You read this to your sister take your sister to the doctors and just it was such a whirlwind in a matter of like

24:57 All together from when things really kind of, you know hits the fan to like losing my it was like four months.

25:05 So like when people like you know, how it how do you you know kind of like crap? I'm like that was a quick thing where you just kind of becoming a Hermit or anger is just like not just affected everything quickly and my family it was just like to sit back and kind of feel like your body betrays you but your family night.

25:30 Being able to grab a hold of anything yet my family like questioning faith and then pulling on it at in there, you know, it was just like and it's nothing you can do about it. It's like being in a in a like I kind of like the Ghost in the Shell where you just sitting back and it's just

25:49 Things are happening. You can't do you know when you mentioned that you know, your sister was in a coma for you. I'm like I can only imagine what that is. It's interesting. I know you were asking about how your family was.

26:06 Doing all of the things it was more.

26:10 The more difficult part almost was that coma of six months because I know it sounds very mature to stated in this way. But you know, we are aware that we are born and that we're going to die. So accepting that my sister made. I wasn't that wasn't the part that guess laugh left me with nightmares or anything. It was those flashbacks of Hospital scenes the see what it's doing to my parents the, you know, taking care of my little sister and trying to make a 10 year olds life normal. Like I will never forget there was one day because I'm sure this was with your family as well cuz this is so us what we do as black people, but we are on watch at a hospital at all time. So there was never someone not there with my theater. So yeah, so it was Mom in the daytime my sister I would go.

27:10 Her after school and we would come in the late afternoons and evenings. And yeah, we're doing homework there and stuff and then my dad would come when it's time for us to go to bed and he had overnight and then when my grandma did drive into town so she picked up whatever ships at that time and then of course other family members came in and out as well when they could but you know, remember we are military family. So this is happening in the last city that we were stationed in so we are still a drive away from that whole family situation being there. But that is the stuff that makes you do the pause about what the heck is going on. It's not the fact that someone had to like die like we all are going to it was this was a real sucky process to get to that like why my sister have to go through all that so you don't say it out loud, but it almost is would it have been better if it had been a fast

28:10 Process if that was what was going to happen, but I have no idea. I mean it's not funny but I literally just had this conversation with my dad maybe about two weeks ago and we were talking about like the the week that I got my transplant which it was very much. What did you get transplanted? I got the Isadora translate. I got a kidney and pancreas so it cleared up my stage 4 renal failure and type 1 juvenile diabetes for okay. I had it at that time for 24 years. So I was the sick kid, you know, but I always kind of in my own world. But the one thing he said that like it just resonated with me and it made me look at things from a parent's perspective, but I was on dialysis and I had to do dialysis every single night for 9 hours. So I was pretty much.

29:10 Confined Isley imprisoned in a room for 9 hours. Nothing I want to do for 9 hours, but you can't sleep because I couldn't sleep because at that time the medicines I had contracted each other. So my muscles were literally deteriorating and I could not take anything for it. So you're just suffering and it was to the point where and I know it's a taboo Topic in the black community, but it's up to me is an epidemic now, but when people talk about suicide and especially like ask Christians, you know, we kind of just you just don't do it don't hide when I explain the people that like my mind went there. It wasn't more so of psychological thing then it was a physiological things. Like I wanted the suffering to stop and never did. I have an idea that like, okay I want to do this because it's too much but he just kind of mentioned he was like, you know, it was one day where I just kind of asked.

30:10 I had to take my daughter because of the suffering and I was like they had you like let me go. He said he said it wouldn't let you go. He said it was just as a parent to see something that you love and created just suffer the way that you did. He was like I couldn't bear that I didn't want that for you. So my mom said those exact same words and that was my daddy is to let you know something was the point of you know, she cuz of course we always talked to my sister while she was in the hospital no matter what reactions we were getting back from her and at one point she had that conversation and it wasn't even necessarily at the end of things. She just was like listen. This is my child and I want what is best for my child and my selfish want and need may not be what is best for her because there's pain associated with what happening right now, but you know, I

31:10 I truly believe that.

31:14 This is why you talk about these things because yeah, we're friends and we're cool and we do all of the good fun things, but it's also related are rooted in related experiences that we are still discovering that we've had that are so closely like each other like like sisters getting on your nerves but on the on our nerves in a loving way, but what I will say about like struggles like that it did ultimately bring us closer together and in the beautiful thing about that whole thing when he said he kind of made that confession that you know, a guy that died the next day is when they talk about my transplant. So it was like that's how the Lord works. So I was just letting you know, I'll let you know. That's cool, but he had never said that to me and when he he told me I was just like my husband.

32:14 Oh my gosh my life, but it was just you know, I was just kind of like

32:21 Knowing like knowing that about you and it was your family experience kind of like, oh, well, you know and knowing the things that you have said about you makes me say, oh wow is I don't know. I just appreciate the conversation that's being had within black families now.

32:43 Not just black families but black friends because it is amazing but not amazing the fact that we were on a phone call for like 3 hours and it wasn't as if I didn't see you the day before and we weren't having lunch the very next day, but it's you know, I hope and pray that everyone has someone to have that kind of ease with because we need it more than real life person in person and I'm great at long-distance everything because my friends are all around you or socialite and your friends are all around not just the country but different countries, but you really can't replace like the person that you see and touch and breathe the same air like I have no choice. That's true.

33:43 People can be like, oh, okay going back to the nas concert and this is our first concert of just us two. Was it the first time just the two of us going out because we really were kind of introduced through other through mutual friends. But this was we are hanging out with each other and just like booty bump and dancing alongside, but I don't think you get a stronger Bond than good beats at a house and I have all the best parking spots. It's true and line cutting and I don't know why you're going to have to stay my friends. Everybody uses me like you offer it before I even think of it. I do the things that you suggest don't occur to me until you say something and then your insistence or upset if we don't regard or what the security lines at airports.

34:43 Driving through Cox cable that restaurant at restaurants. I don't know why people feel sorry for the blind person. But you know if I don't because I definitely absolutely have no respect for listen to officer shoulder. And I also let you know you are running into things that's untrue. I know that you have this into a sign which I'm guessing is it handicap found out that on your own because I saw it. I let you know that there's a step or a hump there or that there is this doorway coming up and I count the steps are coming up ahead. I mean, I might be counting them afterwards, but I have done it you are saying this because you don't want to be judged by the general public, but I'm here to lit.

35:31 Everybody and still yet. I am your friend. You are I am very cold to paint it the way it is. I'm not trying to be funny but you know the whole my friend that's blind makes me see the world differently.

35:53 But it does but then more importantly it just makes me see it the same / how it could be better though. The world is not accessible for body with disabilities. So like if I can bring that kind of respect anybody crank, so I think that

36:14 That's just wonderful. I have Vision. I don't have site, but I do have Mission and I thank you for it.