Tina Dalcour and John Dalcour

00:01 Hi, my name is John delcore. My age is 43.

00:07 I today is March 5th 2020 in Las Cruces, New Mexico and intervene Tina. She's my mom.

00:20 Hi, my name is Tina dalcour and I am 69 and today's date is March 5th 2020 and we are in Las Cruces, New Mexico. And my partner is my son John dalcour JJ.

00:41 Some I'd like to ask you some questions. How did you tell your friends that you were going the military?

00:50 I went to my school counselor cuz I've been trying to get into college unfortunately back in the day 1969 women didn't have very many opportunities and the only college that would take me was up all male black college and I didn't qualify.

01:09 As a black man, so then I decided to go try the Air Force.

01:16 Unfortunately, I was too short and underweight to join the Airforce. So they sent me to the Army.

01:24 And then when I went back to my counselor to tell him that I found a way to get my college degree by going to the Army he panicked and told me that I could go to.

01:39 College in New Jersey for free as a teacher and I told him I didn't want to be a teacher and so started my journey then to join the Army.

01:54 And everybody was very surprised it.

01:58 Someone like me would join the army. They had a different vision of what women were like in the Army back in that day or else it was during the Vietnam war and they thought only men enlisted.

02:14 So that's basically how everybody reacted my parents were. Okay, cuz my father was military and he married my mother when

02:25 He was sent to Germany after World War II and met her married her travel to Japan where they adopted me. And so they pretty well knew what the military life was and we're okay with me going.

02:43 Cool

02:46 What was your basic training like?

02:50 It was very different than it is today because men and women had different.

02:56 Basic training's I got there on a very very hot day in.

03:03 I see we went from

03:05 In Alabama, and it was very very hot and they made us stand out in the sun while they indoctrinated us, basically.

03:15 And then we started our six week training.

03:21 And we did PT every morning which was a real surprise to a lot of people that they were not in shape enough to even participate but we all made it through.

03:34 And then we went through classes of I'm not even remembering what it was. We were being taught in those weeks.

03:44 All we know I can really remember is everyone really look forward to going to the mess hall to eat because whatever we were doing really drained our energy and the only thing we could do is wait for the

03:57 You can call that we can go eat and then eventually the end of the day we go back to our what would be called a dormitory, I guess because all it is is a whole bunch of bed with a whole bunch of lockers and a big giant room.

04:17 And then we spend our night until they told us we couldn't have our lights on preparing for the next day and then some of us would sit by the

04:30 Exit light because we never got our shoes polished and so we'd all sit there in a group and polisher shoes before going to bed. And then 6 in the morning off went the Bell again that we had to jump up get ourselves ready and go to PT before we went to eat.

04:50 And that's how I found out about Hamburg or what is called SOS cuz everybody ate tons and tons of hamburger with gravy because that was what they gave very freely.

05:04 Goku and that's why you get it every once in a while cuz I still love it.

05:12 I can you tell me about the person you served with.

05:16 Well, there is one woman dead after I went through basic went through school.

05:25 And went to our permit stationed at Fort Ritchie, Maryland, and her name was Olga Perez while she had another name before that cuz she did get married cuz that was another thing back in those days. They didn't allow women to get married. And if you did get married you had to leave the service and so

05:48 She ended up getting married because they did finally decide that people that were in the military did get connected up and fall in love and wanted to have a relationship and they allowed marriages. They didn't still didn't allow women to have children though.

06:07 And so when she got pregnant she had to leave the service, but we stayed connected because

06:13 We had gone through a lot together.

06:17 And the thing I remember most from her is that she did get a loan so that I could get a car.

06:24 And then the part that really makes me remember her is I did take time out because as I said when you get pregnant you are not allowed to be in the service and I got pregnant with your sister.

06:38 Got out had her but there wasn't very many options for me as a woman in those days. So luckily at the time. They were changing the regulation so that women could have a marriage and have a child and still serve the military.

06:56 So I had to wait until they got that log totally in.

07:02 My recruiter had me give your sister up to my parents so that I could enlist.

07:10 And I enlisted and went back to Fort Ritchie and met up with Olga again, and she found me a place to stay and found me a babysitter for your sister, which was a Puerto Rican who?

07:27 They are very close in their relationship. And when I finally went through the legal system to regain custody of your sister.

07:41 She took Jennifer in I had apartment.

07:47 And that was when I met your father cuz I needed somebody to pick me up from my apartment to take me to work. Well the first day that he took me and your sister Jennifer to the babysitter. He had a totally panicked look on his face.

08:05 And it wasn't till after.

08:08 He took me to catch the bus to where we work that I found out that my babysitter was his supervisor his boss. He got a big lecture about how he better never do anything negative to me or your sister cuz he would reflect in his

08:29 Evaluation and so I sort of felt real comfortable then that and then has you know, we eventually married.

08:39 Went to Belgium where you were born.

08:44 And brought you back to the States a.m.

08:49 Olga's always the one that helped me.

08:53 When I get got back into the service again to get everything in place.

08:58 So if Olga Perez is anywhere out there.

09:04 I remember what you did for me.

09:07 That's really wonderful.

09:11 What did you learn about yourself?

09:15 One of the things I think the military teaches which is something that some people accept and some people don't is it really teaches you where your boundaries are what you're capable of doing?

09:30 And the negative part of it kind of is is it teaches you to work through the pain?

09:38 But then sometimes you become so trying to be independent that you don't tell anybody about your pain and you hide it.

09:47 And so trying to break through that barrier to say you're not failing by telling somebody that you need help.

09:58 But it was always more of a group effort just like when we signed our shoes by the exit sign we did it together and whoever could polish the shoes best did it and whoever couldn't get their shoes polished just did the priming the first part of it and then we handed it to the person that would give us the final spit-shine. So we learned a whole lot about how to work together how to find out who had what strength and who had

10:34 A weakness and we try to always help each other and the people that never made it through basic training and school where the people that were really resistant to being controlled by.

10:49 Others but I think they just didn't understand that. We all need to work together to meet a goal and that was one of the biggest things. I think the military taught is you have to rely on each other and work together.

11:08 That's a good way to look at things.

11:13 What were some of the difficult times how did you deal with them?

11:21 Well the most difficult part of the whole military Adventure because I have gone through all phases of being military. I was a military brat with my father being in the service. I served myself for 11 years and then I also

11:41 I guess you could call it served as a military wife and at the time.

11:48 My your father and me were separated, but then Desert Shield happened.

11:55 And he was being sent away on Desert Shield.

11:59 And I took you and your sister down to Fort Bliss so that you could see him off and we still were not connected at the time.

12:11 But then after we got there and we sent him all the care packages all the time, and we didn't have what?

12:18 The servicemembers have now is easy access to communication it was letters and I had to print up mailing labels and envelopes that I sent to your father so that he could just put his letter in and mail it in that was about the only communication we had we didn't I don't even think had telephone calls during that. We did some VHS tapes. Yeah, and I'm looking for that tape that we made for your father when you're cuz that's when that's because once again, she worked with the military who had all of them newest equipment and that was when the VHS recorder came out and she had one for her office and she offered us to make the tape and we went to her house and we did a message to your father.

13:11 And it was a hard on me because of the time.

13:16 I didn't want to tell him what was happening at home.

13:21 Which way I was having a lot of difficulty with your sister at the time.

13:26 And I knew that if I told him what was going on it would affect his.

13:33 How do you say?

13:37 What he was going through over there, and so trying to make a video.

13:43 Betrayed us as kind of happy but not giving him the whole story of what was going on. So that's why I'd really love to find that VHS tape to really look at it. What is it almost 20 some years later now.

14:01 More than that are 25 or 30 yet you a real young at that time.

14:09 And all the problems I had with you at that time too and having to handle it all by myself is basically a single mom.

14:20 And even though I was married

14:24 I still didn't have the support of my partner to raise you both and then when Desert Shield turned into Desert Storm, it was a very hard day when we saw that announcement being made.

14:41 Because then it hit the real reality that your dad might not come back.

14:48 And I hadn't told him everything that I really felt about him.

14:54 And once again, you can't have any communication except through letters and you try to keep them as upbeat as possible.

15:02 I went every week to a meeting at Fort Bliss where the commander of his unit would brief all the wives about what the unit was doing and if there was any special messages from anybody.

15:16 And it was always hard going there cuz they would also read us everybody that got injured or killed and we sat there waiting to see if

15:25 Anything was said, but it was during that. Of time that you really didn't want to see a motor vehicle pull up to the house because you knew what that meant.

15:38 And since we hadn't talked before he left.

15:43 It was very hard until he was coming home.

15:48 And once he got home, we had a very long talk and decided to try to make the marriage work.

15:55 And that's when we went off to Florida because one of the perks was they gave military free access to anything in Florida as you remember, your mom was a drill sergeant turned that. Of time cuz I needed to go to everything. We need a vacation from my vacation from my mom. I got who didn't stop at all a whole lot of things for free cuz at that time they gave the military free access to everything and

16:28 Like I said, there's way more memories attached to it. But that was one of the hardest periods of my time and it wasn't as a military person but as a military spouse

16:42 And so I'm not sure what else you would like to ask of your own.

16:49 I don't know. You don't know.

16:54 Because one of the things I realized in life mostly at this stage.

16:59 Is it there's a lot of things that happened when before you were born while you are very young that we never really talked about.

17:10 And so a lot of the things don't think it's important except like we found out a few years ago that you got yourself.

17:24 Expelled from preschool and you've never knew that because that was where we met winnett because I was active duty at the time and I just couldn't take off work to go home to take care of you, but the school called cuz they tried really hard to cope with you.

17:45 But they couldn't do it anymore cuz you bit a child and they couldn't.

17:51 Hide that fact anymore. So I had to get off work and luckily the place. I worked was very understanding that I did have a family and I still was serving in the military the time took you and went to winnett to find out what can I do because before that I had met with net because another one of the little corpse that came with being a couple married in the service is when we came back from Belgium.

18:24 We were allowed to households to chip back but somewhere in.

18:29 The government bureaucracy things had changed and we were only allowed to have one.

18:35 So they charged us for the second load which then they garnished his paid which means we got no money for quite a while and we went to Gwinnett to get some help your father found a job down in El Paso that every day. He would go down to El Paso to work bring us some money so that we could even have any food during that time and then eventually I went through the regulations and confronted them that said we went to Belgium with the understanding that we could bring two households back cuz we were two separate service members and that just because they changed the regulation that we were only allowed one because we were a married couple

19:25 We shouldn't be charged and eventually we got all our back pay.

19:31 But it was a very hard time for us cuz we had no money coming in. They took both of our pays and the only thing we had was a house and I think at that time the electricity was paid at the house. So we basically had a house to live in.

19:48 And then your dad went to an extra job so that we had enough money for the food.

19:55 But it was a real hard and I don't remember how long it was until I finally convinced the military to give us back our money, but that was another hard part of.

20:05 Life for us as a military family, but then once again

20:11 The military does support and we got as much assistance as we could from what they call the Army Community Services.

20:21 And that was where your sister ended up.

20:25 Excuse me, working part time as a volunteer doing paperwork there. And so she was a great asset to them and they really loved her working there. You went to the scarboroughs cuz when you got expelled from preschool, I had to find somewhere to put you and luckily they were across the street and his wife wasn't working. So she said she take you in.

20:56 And you worked out real well with them and we've also kept up with the scarboroughs just like you met him at the bank the other day and it's once again what happens in military families you get really close to each other and even though you don't see each other for a long. Of time when you do see each other

21:19 All of that

21:21 I don't know what word to use for it. But there's a connection between everybody that has two.

21:30 Go through.

21:33 The military experience that just is not quite the same as in the savanna in life.

21:39 And I'm not sure how it is on the men's side with.

21:44 Going into the Battle Zone. I know your father.

21:49 Wouldn't talk very much about his Vietnam experience.

21:53 And his Iraqi he

21:58 Kept that sort of Silent for himself, but he did tell me a few things of those experiences and he remembers a lot of the people who made a reducer with he made a video tape of it or at least there is one out there somewhere a video tape of when he went to Desert Storm hard to watch it.

22:24 Because they were making so much fun of all the dead bodies hanging out of the vehicles and I'm looking at it from a point of a Woman They said that was somebody's son. That was somebody's husband. Somebody's family member. It's just not a dead body that

22:43 You the military forces killed.

22:47 But that was the only way I think that they could

22:51 Cope with what they were doing there.

22:54 But for my viewpoint watching it was a very hard because they were just being so casual about

23:02 What they were seeing and I think that's part of what?

23:07 Really hurts those people that went into combat.

23:13 Is they had to

23:16 Give up what they thought was right so that they could do what was needed to be done. But it was always a conflict in their mind.

23:27 And it was what he your dad had is a conflict in Vietnam because I'm not sure if it's really true or not cuz I didn't push on it.

23:39 But he cried in my arms one day because he had to tell me the story of how he killed a woman and her child.

23:46 And

23:48 He said that he had married me and taken in Jennifer cuz Jennifer was not his child because of that incident that he felt.

23:59 Did it made him feel better about having killed the woman and her child because in Vietnam, they never knew who the enemy was or who was the good people and at that time?

24:14 The woman was labeled the enemy and they had to shoot her.

24:18 And so it was a

24:20 Hard thing for eye thing called people who serve

24:25 Did they have to make these hard decisions?

24:28 Because they're there to do their Duty.

24:33 But then one day come back all of those memories never go away.

24:39 And they try to cope with it as much as possible.

24:43 And then we as the wives like I said, I had the I don't know what you want to call it the pleasure of being a service member's wife, which was hard to because

24:56 One of the incidences that I don't know if I told you when we were in Belgium since I work shift work, I would be at home most of the time.

25:06 So these women thought that I was an officer's wife.

25:11 Because I was at home and he went off to work and they never looked at his uniform to see what he was in that he would be gone before they got up while they invited me into their Circle.

25:23 Until they found out. I was also an enlisted person.

25:27 Then I wasn't allowed to come over anymore. And so it was

25:32 There is a kinship within the military but there is also the High Rockies it officers and enlisted people do not interact even though we were both wives they were officer wives and I was an enlisted wife and so

25:55 Once again, I guess let it go because

25:59 There's not much you can do but it also hurts the fact that

26:07 We're both in the military together and luckily with the both of our salaries we could afford what was considered officer quarters versus enlisted quarters.

26:18 Was that one on Hercules now that was in Belgium when we live next to the Belgium family and that was another point that

26:30 I got pregnant with you and had to find a babysitter within 2 months.

26:36 Are you at 2 months?

26:39 And went next door and she was more than happy to take in a brand-new infant and so I didn't have to take you over to the regular daycare and then our families became very close.

26:52 And we did the bad thing is traded cereal for your care because her children loved the American cereal, and they couldn't get American cereal. So I provided breakfast for you and everybody else and it worked out. We didn't exchange any money. She just wanted cereal for her children. And so you grew up there and Jennifer was a little bit older so she was going to school.

27:28 But then they watched you when we went off to the Canary Islands for what we called our honeymoon.

27:36 And you spent time with him during that. Of time.

27:40 And I don't think you want to take me to the beach after the canoe accident. They do ya do we have a tie for the canoe story? Well every year we got 30 days of paid vacation and we would take off to Italy to a RV park where one of the parts of European culture is all of the companies would give their whole company the same time off and so we'd meet the same people. They were German. They were English. They were all sorts of nationalities at the campground.

28:15 But it was a very close group too. And we were able to leave you and Jennifer to play and do whatever you wanted it this place and one day we were missing you and couldn't find where you went and everybody is out of the beach trying to find you where thinking the worst that you went wandering out into the ocean and we'd have to find a body all of a sudden hear you pop up underneath of a canoe that you had fallen asleep.

28:49 And woke up with everybody yelling your name, and we were so relieved to finally find you.

28:57 And so that's your canoe story of.

29:02 How we thought we lost you?

29:07 Rihanna's really cool. I think it's a remember it when we moved to White Sands. Yeah. Yeah, you still had to come we brought the canoe back to the States and it was over in White Sands that you went to I think the pool or somewhere with it. I know it wasn't the officer pool was the public when I guess

29:39 I kind of miss bikes. And another thing is the children also have connections cuz they're still has connections to the kids that he went to high school at White Sands with and they see each other every once in awhile in.

29:54 It's like a class reunions again.

29:59 And so

30:02 Not only do.

30:04 The servicemembers connect the families connect and the children connect cuz they have what is

30:12 On Facebook the White Sands Missile Range brats that they still exchange stories over Facebook. Remember when and they talk about their teachers about different events the lockdowns lockups that the youth center would have changed a lot since last time I've been there. Yeah. Yeah, you could tell him what it was like in the good old days at White Sands when the only people you had were each other because it was way too far to get to Las Cruces.

30:48 And since you all didn't drive you had to

30:52 Hang out with each other like a middle of nowhere. Yeah, I feel like you are.

30:59 And that's why we had the Bayshore van because I could load everybody up into the van and take everybody into town in the red pickup truck.

31:11 So once again, the military lifestyle is very different from civilian.

31:18 And they have a lot of challenges that is very difficult for civilians to understand and sometimes just saying thank you for your service does not at all.

31:35 I don't know.

31:37 As I told you one of the best things people can say to service members is is there anything I can help you with today?

31:45 And stead of saying thank you for your service because it's hard for service members to open up. But if you leave the door open, is there anything I can do for you today? You might get an answer and then if you're able to give whatever they ask for that is way more appreciated than just the empty words. Thank you for your service.

32:11 Jay-Z I'm going to ask do you have any favorite memories from growing up around White Sands? Do you remember what you used to do with your friends over there?

32:20 Oh, I know the reflector. She can tell you more cuz my brain is kind of.

32:26 I just remember walking back and forth from school.

32:29 By myself as you walk to school and walked home and Catch Fire and lot of things I told ya do you remember the fire incident? That's when they put up the wall. They went out into the desert to their quote-unquote Hideout set it on fire and came running back to the house acting as if nothing happened while I'm watching fire trucks going out to the desert and then they put a wall up that said you're not allowed to go out in the desert anymore.

33:06 So do you remember who was with you when you started that fire?

33:11 I have no idea. I know my sister was with me like always your sister was part of it. She might be the one that did it could be. Yeah.

33:23 And remember the days when you had to type in all these words in for the games, and I want to play for a couple seconds to go back outside.

33:32 I think you got mad at me a couple times a very different life being at White Sands Missile Range schools different.

33:45 And there was really nothing much to do out there. You got to invent your own games and everything else.

33:52 I mean by ground wasn't really that fun.

33:56 And is Marilyn little games?

34:01 Cuz we didn't really have an erection or nothing like that. Everyday was like a little Shack not like what they have today, like all some kind of thing. But back then we barely had anything.

34:15 That was back in 1980. So that's almost 40 years ago. It's almost like bootcamp no more true. And once the sun goes down you better be in the house. That's for sure. That was kind of the military rule that lights out was when the lights went on.

34:34 And always remember wearing my clothes first thing in the morning cuz I just want a girl.

34:41 Yeah, yeah, we really did too much out there.

34:46 You was not the easiest life to live. I don't know how it was and other military bases that I know why Santa is it was little more difficult as I find out. They were the atom bomb out there a shape Port Richey shape and White Sands Missile Range, which words are three major assignments were what is classified as isolated locations for twice as well as the best location I think cuz I think I went to Saw the space shuttle Guy Ritchie. I got to sell the shadow they shut off that's more important than the one day. We should go up there and check it out the Fort Ritchie go to see if Port Richey cuz you never experienced for Richie. The only thing I remember is my Sands knits it but I showed you the video on YouTube of somebody who went there cuz it's a deserted Camp that's taken over.

35:46 Buy a private company.

35:49 But they took cuz they were going to make a video game from all the things that it would be nice to go back there. So I could show you all the things me and your father experienced while we were there.

36:04 So any more questions?

36:09 Nana top of my head right now. I'm not on the top of your head or the bottom of your head.

36:23 And you have a great time you too. I love you. Love you too, Mom.

36:29 Thank you.