Tony Martinez and Zazil-xa [no name given]

00:00 All right. My name is Jessica Davis Vasquez. I'm 25 years old. Today's date is March 6th 2020. I'm in Las Cruces, New Mexico with Tony and he's my new friend. Good morning. I am Tony Martinez. I'm age 61 today is March 6th 2020. We are on the beautiful campus my alma mater New Mexico State University home of the Aggies and I'm with my new friends to seal who is here to have a discussion with me this morning. I want to hear a little bit about your time at NMSU, but I'm going to start by asking you where you grew up and what that was like, I grew up with appear in the small town of the San Miguel. It's just

00:52 10 miles off the Las Cruces and I was born to to a father who goes Generations back in Southern New Mexico my grandfather and my great-grandfather my great-great-grandfather all buried in that same Cemetery there in San Miguel. My mom on the other hand was was an immigrant from Mexico for so that would make me up first generation immigrant, you know to the area so a little bit of kind of both can the historical long generational New Mexican with the other 50% of me being the the Mexican immigrants that came through. My mom was 15 when she moved to the United States and met my dad a couple of years has a few years later. My dad at that point was in the Air Force and that was boring than couple years after after that will my dad.

01:52 Still on the active Air Force what part of Mexico is your mom thumb from Durango, which makes it about a 6 hour or so Drive South see that? What is can you describe a little bit what growing up in San Miguel was like, I mean, it's a it's a small town. I'll be asleep part of the the one when you have to trail that been settled centuries ago and it is it was it was a bit more of a larger town that it is today much of the smaller towns have I started in a moving towards more urban life even the draw to Las Cruces as I as I somewhat look back most of the friends that I had at that in those communities. You don't know live here in the city just like myself.

02:44 But it was it was a small town and most of the folks that that live there had grown up in that same Community had gone to the same Gadsden high school and had been people that had just knew that have been family for for really several Generations.

03:07 Can you tell me like what did you do for fun? When you were a kid that just walking around the town really? It's just interesting that at the time as we going to try I'll let you know really go to anybody's house just walk in and get fed, you know play around out with the with the kids in the neighborhood and there was really no thought about that. It was just you rode your bike. You rode your bike ride with you felt like going in there didn't seem unsafe. It just seemed like that was a very normal way to to live out your day going to enjoy your day and into really build relationships. I think that is I recall as being a child or younger child in that 8 to 12 year range and I used to visit some of the older folks that lived in the community something I think in many ways. We just kind of got away from it.

04:07 To that social media piece of Our Lives that now the physical interaction between people is just seems to have been something of the past and something that I really remember 05 my childhood. Your dad was in the Air Force. What was that? Like when you were a kid growing up? I don't remember because I was born and my dad left left ear force, you know within that first year. So obviously, you know be months old. My dad was in in Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada and then moved here to you know to San Miguel after after he left the military and then shortly after that started working for Coca-Cola, but you know, he always talked about his military service. He talked about how much you learned and how it was so important to to serve our nation.

05:07 And also, you know just the benefits you get from being elsewhere outside of this community while I love this community. There's a whole Global world out there and you know, he he talked a lot about that aspect of it how the military kind of broadens your your whole perspective in in life and how we become more Global as a result of it.

05:31 So, can you talk a little bit about that with your service?

05:35 Oh sure. Absolutely.

05:37 So my military service was

05:43 Really propelled a lot by my dad's, you know, you know Air Force background when I was in high school. I didn't think I was going to go in the military. I wanted to go to university and the summer between my Junior and Senior year. I had the privilege and honor of being selected for New Mexico Boys state in American Legion project was spending a week away from home with other kids from throughout the state and it happened to be held at New Mexico Military Institute in Roswell. So I went to that for that week. We had a presentation about the corps cadets at the enemy New Mexico Military Institute and I fell in love with the idea of being in the corps Cadets start ended New Mexico Military Institute to your school to your military school here in New Mexico, and I

06:43 At that point wasn't sure if I wanted to make you play do did want to join the military. I just wanted this whole Corps Cadet thing and and then later on that came back after my two years there. I came to New Mexico state and I went into the ROTC program here and spent two years going through and getting my commission and is is it going to Lieutenant went into into the military for back in 1981? And so my perspective of the military early on was just I was just an all it was such a different environment that I had that I had to experience here. You know, you'd always hear the horror stories and how tough and everything it was in, you know, there were days that that it was it was difficult days, but

07:43 From my perspective being a young commission second Lieutenant. It was it was an opportunity. That was was both fun. It was challenging it meant a lot of the things that I liked and that's being outdoors a good portion of it. You know, you learn leadership you learn so many things about yourself and about about Society in general about being in the in group environments in the group dynamics. So I had the privilege of going through to Alabama first for McClellan has been my first stuff for months and in the in the in the Southeast from there. I went down to Fort Benning Georgia, and I I did Airborne school. I did Ranger school. So I got the ranger tab. So Airborne Ranger with a very prestigious thing to get for offer military for the US Army.

08:43 And so I really enjoyed that in that really had a huge impact. Probably my proudest moment was getting through Ranger school. That was to me was was a big you know, that's a big compliment. Can you talk a little bit about Ranger school? What did you what made it before? Well, it's it's very physically demanding. It's a small unit leadership course, you don't get a lot of sleep. I mean, it's notorious for going from 3 to 1 hour nights of sleep. And and you just you you walk very long distances you backpack gum long distances salt from that perspective. It was just very physically challenging was mentally challenging as well. We all had to rotate leadership roles and we were assessed and evaluated so part of getting the tab was being able to be a successful leader.

09:43 When your number came up when your time came up and and you had to to leave that group for whatever mission that that you were cast and so if it was it was a challenging and ordeal and so it was I'll stay with 60 days of hell for a good portion of it. We work at getting a meal a day which wasn't enough. I can tell you that I lost coast of 30 lbs when when I went through and I wasn't I wasn't the physical stature and I am today even even back then so you just lose a lot of body fat, you know being in that in that environment so well my initial assignment as a lieutenant was in in Germany, so I was part of the Cold War going up and down the

10:42 The Iron Curtain on doing the protection there and and so, you know, I got to see what it was during my Years is as the race to arms and the increase of of our defense in order to beat at that point the Warsaw Pact on I just as Soviets, but all the countries that that consult that compromise the Warsaw Pact and and it was it was heightened level of

11:16 A Readiness to we had in in in that Western Europe. Then I was still on active duty during Operation Desert Storm. And so does it storm was one where my expertise is in chemical weapons? I was chemical officer. And so we were very concerned about that portion of the Rocky.

11:44 Threat and so I spent a good portion of my time in the preparation of the of of that particular War then I looked active-duty 1990 at the end of 1991 after Desert Storm. And I stayed in the Army Reserves like the military enough, but I wanted to start my civilian career had gotten my Master's Degree at Don that the Army's expense if you will and so I at that point then went on to the Army Reserve because I still had a bit of a calling. I enjoyed the camaraderie that come out of here agree. And I also enjoy just the overall aspect of serving our nation in 2003. I was called back to active duty and went in and served in initially Kuwait as part of operation enduring Freedom. We send became operation.

12:44 The rocky Freedom a couple months after I got there.

12:48 The story that I would really like to tell is this those of us that serve our nation and have a compelling desire to serve our nation, you know do so at Great sometimes at Great cost and I will tell you the story of when I got called up for active duty. I was in Florida doing the annual 2 weeks training for the Army Reserve at that point is working for a pharmaceutical company Abbott Laboratories, and I was stationed with them in Costa Rica. We had started up a new facility there and I was one of a handful of Americans are gone that there to start it up.

13:34 So I got the call when I was in my two weeks and said that I had been involuntarily assigned and that I needed to report to Fort McCoy Wisconsin. I was at Florida my family was in Costa Rica and suddenly, you know just by met her phone calls is calling them up and saying I've just been mobilized we have to remember this is a few months after 9/11. Not even though he was but fourteen months after 9/11 and so our

14:08 Ability to respond to what the our nation was going through in in the sense of wanting some level of retaliation some level of healing meant that there were sacrifices that had to be made and then one of them was was my night. I felt that, you know leaving my family not even getting to say goodbye to them and then being shipped off to McCoy and then within a couple of weeks into I was in Kuwait, you know, that is quite you know, it's quite a story in itself by just it was it was difficult on on the family was difficult on my kids. My kids were Middle School age and then I had one who was in kindergarten. So they're relatively young children at that point loon in a foreign country at that point and so off off I went to serve my my year.

15:07 You know what became a show of force and then became a full-out war in March of 2003. And so we moved on in into the Rock and being a chemical officer. We are we are tasked with trying to go out and find the sum of the site that we were looking forward to identify whether there were any weapons of mass destruction. Obviously, we didn't find any or if that would have been publicized accordingly. So but it was it was an interesting time was an interesting time for me to to to serve in at that point, you know, 2003 was already 21 22 years into my military career. I could could have left a couple years earlier, but the reality is 9/11 hit and I felt a certain compelling desire to continue to serve in and then

16:07 I got the call to Nicole one in and do my part. So what are you what are some of your Fondest Memories are most impactful memories about your deployment?

16:18 Ordering. Well, I think you know, here's what I will say about the about deployment you're with a group of people.

16:29 You deploy over there and in my case, I was a newcomer because it wasn't the group that I had been assigned to for a. Of time. And so I knew I didn't know I knew one particular individual that I had served within that Chicago area a few years before but the other 220 I didn't know and so it didn't matter what color you were. It didn't matter whether it's male and female cuz we had a large group of female soldiers that were with us.

17:08 Our backgrounds none of that really mattered. It's a matter that we're going there as a unit and I think the most satisfying part of that whole deployment was it we went there as a unit and the entire unit came back. We didn't lose anybody in the process and it's not as if we weren't In Harm's Way because most of us were all over those that that country and in many cases in small groups because we were looking for sure night ends. Well, so I had folks that were dealing with the with the fires have been set to the refineries and then so forth. And so there was there was a lot of out of concern I received for every one of those those troops that went out on on a daily basis to do the route to do their mission to do the work and we went there with the whole group and with one exception of one of our our soldiers did

18:08 I have got the shot in the leg but apart from and there was no other major major casualties and I think to me that that has to be one of the most satisfying pieces is be able to go there indoor what isn't endured it was indoor by very few people in this country and yet return back complete and I end and I won't say anything that some don't have the PTSD and then other things that have but but every one of them came back to their families every one of them has returned back physically safe for for the most part and I think that that to me was most impactful thing that I feel you are very grateful about. Can you tell me what that process was like or how you

19:08 All coming back

19:12 Yeah, my my

19:15 It's interesting that when I came back.

19:21 The his the historical presence of when I came back was many will recall that in mid 2003. And remember I was there January 2003 mid mid 2003 President George W Bush when the board above on their the carrier and declared mission accomplished that we had won the war Trooper coming back home. I remember getting remember getting email from my boss saying, you know, okay great mission accomplished. When you coming home, you know, we need you basically need you back at work right back to regular work and I and I think that that that that aspect of I'm just

20:13 Feeling that there was an accomplishment that had already occurred and now we're getting ready to come home and then things started happening where IDs were being planted. We started losing more lives at the you know, if there is a Memorial Day in 2003, we'd only lost $192 result of the war and yet we look back today and we've lost close to 5046 hundred and some have been lost and they've all been lost since quote mission accomplished had occurred. So the majority of the loss has been with a whole different type of warfare not the Warfare that I went there for initially which was a force on Forest but rather, you know, it's it's it's a different type where they were setting up booby traps and and and IEDs along the way and we were starting to lose more and more of our servicemen and

21:13 And for me that that portion about coming back home was like Mission isn't really accomplished and we started somewhat reducing the four. So I came back in August of 2003 after having been only there 7 months and then lo and behold we started seeing the insurgents activity and then our numbers had to increase. So while you're partly I feel fortunate that I only had to serve 7 months out of a year 8 months out of a year, but turn all all is said and done. Now. We have people that were going back and know historically now we can look back and say well, you know, that was an 18-year War. I mean and we still have troops there today and that war has never you know has never ended. So coming back for me was

22:13 Was different because yes, I was back but my camera is

22:18 Aren't back there still several of them that are even serving serving there today. We have noticed in in in recent news.

22:29 So you said that did it when you came back. Did you go back to work immediately or what was that sort of transitional process good for you. So it happened that my corporate headquarters was in Chicago outside suburbs of Chicago when I flew back. I was going to go out processed in Fort McCoy, Wisconsin right next door about 5 hours north of Chicago. So I was able to actually stopped in our corporate headquarters was in my uniform went into the office. It was kind of interesting got a big hug from CEO my boss, you know, they were all obviously happy for me happy for my family that that we were home. That was home safe, you know, but the thing is about

23:25 Work at it that continued in that that went on and it was you know now having to reprogram oneself to go back to a civilian environment full has people around you that may not necessarily support the war who are not necessarily people that are on the agreement that we should be using Force, you know, two to settle issues of broad but for the most part for the most part it even though isn't that made politically feel that way there was a welcoming part that you know, because I felt that I grew up.

24:18 I was in my early teens in towards towards the end of Vietnam.

24:25 When soldiers are coming back from Vietnam, they were not appreciated and remember Vietnam veterans are those that were for the most part drafted they didn't even want to be in. I mean, at least we look at me I volunteered for this for this service and yet by the time Desert Shield hit in Desert Storm and then the rocky Freedom. We had a strong support for the for the military and been those of us that were coming back. It's not it wasn't our fault. I mean we we go because we are we are told the gold because that's what has been mandated to us. And then we go do what our nation has asked us to do and I'll talk a little bit about you know, what an exchange I had with the Ambassador US ambassador to Costa Rica before I went because there was a little bit of an unusual circumstance for me to being close to

25:25 And then the gold, you know serve because Costa Rica doesn't have a military. But anyway back to the point of returning back. It's your return back and you get back to work and then you start going back into your regular life and it is a transition make military life and civilian life is very different in the civilian life. I find I found myself more about what do I want hot? What's good for my career? You know, where am I going to go next is going to improve my life and I'm going to make more money and so forth. The military is not like that moved. The military is very much about with military needs what they want you to do because you have a certain expertise, you know, they pulled me out involuntarily to go to Ravinia Rock because I had a certain expertise in in chemical Munitions chemical warfare that very few people in this in this country had at that point in so at that

26:25 You know returning back and making that transition back in was was was interesting. It was interesting. You know that the Days Inn when you and your former long days 12 hour 14 16-hour day work days, you know, it's feeling a life. It's it's an eight-hour day, you know, you might work super hard in certain areas and I see that for the most part. I'm say that you know, everything across the board, but there is a certain level of you know, there's my personal life and I'm going to do this in the military with specially when you're reserving a wartime you you have little you have no personal life and everything is about you not doing that and so it became a transition there to with family. It's like my youngest when I came back, you know, I made 9 months that he had not seen me hid behind a wall because he was kind of scared of Y.

27:25 Why wasn't immediately rush out? He's a four-year-old boy was 3 years old when I left so he was interesting, you know that were part of the transition, you know, your wife gets used to doing things that she's been doing pretty months and it's out of your coming back trying to assume a role that in overhang. I'd like take care of that. It's an interesting transition and mentally you're still it's stress stress will die mean when your in a combat environment you don't you you are in a very stressful environment and then you come home and it's it's just not the same but it's it's just different so that whole Trend transition it occurred in in such a way for me that it was it was it

28:16 It took time for me to get back into a normal swing and I know you want to talk about that. Can you tell me how you met I was a young second. I was young first lieutenant at that point in 1983 station in Schweinfurt Germany, and I met her when I was there. She was working in the in the tour office in the in the tours office on post and and I walked in and we we met and we dated shortly after that and then we got married a year later. So had I not been in the military and I knocked in you know, that that had I not been in that situation, you know, we've never met she's she know she's from the Chicago suburbs and I'm from Las Cruces. So

29:16 Are our paths just happened to cross at that time, you know when she was when she was there for a short. Of time in the beginning of a relationship. I was like, oh it was it was a lot of fun. I mean when you're in Europe, the dollar was strong. I happen to be a young Lieutenant who is making money for the first time in his life of any of any real amount that I could spend. I bought myself a Porsche cuz you know, it was a dream of mine. So either they're not expensive, you know, so I were driving around the country ruin skiing and it was you know, Austria wine trips a lot of things that were just so memorable and so so much fun that we just really, you know, had a great courtship if you well during the during those early.

30:16 What were some of the best times in your relationship?

30:23 The best times have been when you know, we we really put things behind and just gone up and enjoyed our time. We love we both love to ski we have season passes you in here until we ski Wii skeet up in Northern New Mexico here this last week. We skied Austria was good, Switzerland Germany all over Canada all over the US. I mean, we we love to the spend our time, you know doing those fun things we go on cruises we go on vacation is down to Mexico or we'll do a backpacking trips in and hiking trips that you know, like a lot of that. We like a lot of the outdoors stuff and being out and doing things that we that we enjoy. Can you tell me about your first date sure. I invited her to go to a river cruise. It was my unit. We were having what's called a hail and farewell where we introduced.

31:23 Military people coming into the unit if people are going to be leaving we recognize them. So we did it on on a boat up on the Rhine River and ask her if she would go to it which is which was a lot which was fine. But if you are going to have your first date with all your work people and your friends may not necessarily always be the the most ideal situation, but that's what we ended up ice. What I asked you to and that's where we went.

31:56 She wasn't familiar with the military. So I mean, you know, obviously all the otherwise were, you know, quite much more in tune with things and she was asking questions our Battalion Commander was in the front. His name is John Lemoine who went on to be a four-star general great guy great guy and he turned around looked at it looked at her and says, you're your you don't have any clue about about a lot of the military stuff. He ended up being a very very very nice nice individual to us who went to our wedding and it was just a real fatherly figure and John to me ended up being has always been probably the the one military individual that I've always looked up to because I maintain maintain I did maintain a strong relationship with him is a mentor.

32:54 Throughout the throughout my career. He you know, after after 9/11, for example, he ended up going to to be the J one in in the Panic gun because you know, he is they needed someone up his character of his of his of his stature to be in 02 to help in the recovery effort, but wouldn't happen after the end of the plane had crashed into the Pentagon.

33:25 So you mentioned earlier about how?

33:32 Your time in the military was a little bit of a strain on your family life. Can you talk a little bit about any advice you have for other military families are couples filters different in it is going to require an understanding that the visit Usher. This is the same in the military that I heard early on then I use it with my wife a few times because she didn't understand certain things about why we had to do.

34:07 Turn things on certain days in certain under certain organizations, but the same goes like this if the military had wanted you to have a wife they would have issued you one. But while that may be humorous in anyway, there's there's a certain level of underlying honesty to it. And that is that your family's important. We want the family to be safe.

34:38 On the other hand is going to be times where the family has to be put second and your importance has your job is to go somewhere and do our nation's business. And so those are at those are difficult times, you know on the family and it's it's important to realize it that one's patriotism does come in in into play here and it's in it's important that that's what that's what we signed up for it. That's what we volunteered for. The family doesn't always and in my case. You don't mind my wife would say, yeah, but I wasn't married to you when you made that commitment, you know, but she understood what that meant. You know, she understood that was the the job that profession that the requirement and you know, she was glad when my time for retirement came up and I decided that it was time to you notice to move on to walk to retirement.

35:38 I'm an earlier were talking about some of the reactions that you had from civilians or you're the people in your community when you came back. Can you talk about or can you just reflect on what you wish the billions in general understood about military and Veteran?

35:59 I talked about the an exchange your head with Ambassador. The lawn. Evh who is ambassador to Costa Rica the US ambassador of Costa Rica the time he had sent me an email saying, you know, it's unicorn In Harm's Way, you know Heroes like yourself and you know words to that effect. I said, you know it is it's not about me and it's not about this, you know, I'm going to serve what the desires of our elected officials are. And in this case it means, you know serving out our nation's order on our order from my former president this not heroic. It's just it's just a fact of life, right and I think that a lot of people when you when you come back find that to be

36:52 Different they find that to be someone foreign that that we will do things that may be personally. We don't agree with you know, when night and I will tell you as I sit here and now, you know, 18 years later 20 and 17 years later. They necessarily agree with that War. I didn't miss everything we needed to go in and fight. Felt that if ganneston was what we needed to continue our fight and at that point we we didn't you know, I okay I'll go but on the other hand, I understand why you need me to go and I'll do it, you know without reservations but on the other hand it was

37:37 It wasn't like I was going there, you know, cuz I would have chose to do that. And so I think that when I come back and meet people start thinking that old because you serve you supported that well, no, not necessarily. I think that people have a right, you know to their opinions of what they think the the the right thing is in their opinions. What I will tell you is I close is there painting should be cast at The Ballot Box because if you don't like that, you know, let's listen to what the others are saying about what they would do about it and then lets you know, let's cast your vote accordingly and that's what I had said back to Ambassador Duvall and Mitch in my letter at that point in my reply back to an Isis. I'm I'm serving the will of the people in the will of the people was casted through a vote and it's up to the people to speak up. Even if it's not an election year to speak up from

38:37 From my standpoint of advocacy to tell them that that's not the right use of our military or the right use of our tax dollars and and so forth and so from from that perspective, I will say that that's returning back was one of the the key points and then I wanted to Costa Rica why we turn back to does not have a military so they didn't really understand in the plant. I was working. You know, they were just glad I was back but on the other hand, they asked a lot of questions cuz there's another country that doesn't have that and there's other countries that are that are kind of don't understand some of the things that we do and and I submit that there's a lot of Americans who don't really understand why were doing certain things. Why were in certain parts of the world, but but we are

39:32 Great.

39:35 I'm think we're done. Thank you so much for sitting here with me and talking. Do you have any other things you want to say? I think we only have a few seconds. But thank you for the opportunity that you've given me for for me to have a voice to have this ability to convey that for future Generations at the understand. I'm sure that there will be many that would that will follow similar type of backgrounds and and and philosophies that made me very much aligned and maybe hopefully I have answered some of their questions before they get into something rather than then afterwards. Thank you. Thank you.