Topics of Music & Identity with Carson and Jalen

00:03 Hello there, my name is Carson and Today's date is April 15, 2024. I'm speaking with Jalen, who is one of my best friends and is one of my best musical buddies and we are recording in Bloomington, Indiana and we are actually roommates. We're just in our living room just chilling and we've prepped up this interview and Jalen is prepared and if you'd like, you can introduce yourself. Jalen?

00:29 Yeah, my name's Jalen. I hope you like what I have to say.

00:34 Alright. And we can get on into it. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your relationship with music?

00:41 So I'm just a regular old 23 year old guy, you know, and I've been, I've always been interested in music. I guess my parents listened to a lot of music growing up and my dad was a singer and he played like a little bit of guitar and my mom played guitar a little bit. So when I was like 14, I think my dad's father, who, you know, he doesn't really have that great of a relationship with, but one of the things he did before he died was he like bought us all instruments, me, my sister and my brother. And I was the one who ended up like taking the most to it and actually like consistently playing guitars. I've been playing since around like 14 or 15 and that's kind of shaped a lot of my life since then.

01:29 All right. I love to hear that. It's actually really cool to hear. I haven't heard much of that like myself, so that's very endearing. I love that. And how has music played a role in shaping your identity?

01:43 I try. I think it's like a balance where I don't want everything I do to be about music. But at the same time, a lot of times it does come down to that where a lot of like my social life is based around music, you know, playing in the local music scene or just like hanging out with people I've met through playing music. And then also I feel like a lot of music kind of helps me like get in touch with my emotional side sometimes, you know, helps me have like a way to relax and sometimes it's just filling up space. But it's like always, most of the time like a part of who I am at that moment, whether it is I'm actively like playing it or it's just in the background.

02:27 Yeah, okay, I love to hear that. And how do you perceive the relationship between music and identity as a whole?

02:37 I think it's something that like obviously depends from person to person. But I think that like there's a lot of different aspects of your identity that's tied with it. Like obviously there's like the cultural aspect where it's like, you know, I grew up in the country and I went to a more, a more rural school. So a lot of the people there, you know, they wear like camouflage and listen to country music. And that's kind of like a cultural signifier versus like if you move to like the city or like even like the suburbs, it's a lot more like popular music is more so like rap or just like pop music in general, like you know, like Ariana Grande or whatever. And so I think it does like play like a very important thing. And it's also, you know, a lot of people bond over music and so it's kind of like it can like. I don't know necessarily if music influences who you are, but it definitely like represents who you are.

03:35 Yeah, I like how you word that. That's cool.

03:37 That's cool.

03:39 And have there been any specific genres or artists that have particularly resonated with you in terms of shaping your identity and if so, how.

03:48 I think it's like something where like as you grow older you listen to like a lot of different musicians. Like, I don't know, like my parents, it was mostly like, you know, like my dad's a very stereotypical dad. You know, he listens to like classic rock and like he was really into like hair metal band. And then my mom, she's very much more so like listening to like punk music and grunge and like very much like a person who grew up a lot in the 90s, so like that sort of music. I was around that a lot growing up, but for me personally when I was younger it was more so like I resonated a lot with like punk music, like the feeling of like rebellion and that kind of like aspect of like non conformity and. And then as I've gotten older I've gotten a lot more into both like more music in the sense of like, it's more focused on like the technicality, like jazz music and like stuff like that and like more like standardized like professional music. And I've also gotten a lot more into like just like folk, like singer, songwriter stuff as I've like learned to like be more in touch with my emotional stuff.

05:00 Yeah, I love that. That's really cool. And surprised you didn't mention Elliot Smith.

05:08 Well, yeah, that's probably like my. At least for a while. Was, like, my favorite musician, Elliot Smith, which is like, a very, like, folk singer, songwriter, like, pop in some ways. Musician.

05:21 Yeah. This is off topic, but I love his cover of Waterloo Sound. I saw that on Instagram. I've been, like, humming and whistling that, like, all day.

05:30 There's a lot of good covers.

05:32 He's very. He's a very catchy singer.

05:34 Songwriter, for sure.

05:35 I love it. I love it. And off topic of that. In what ways do you believe music serves as an educational tool?

05:45 I think in a lot of ways. I mean, like, growing up and, like, kindergarten and stuff, you know, it's like, a lot of times a way teachers, like, get to kids is just by, like, you know, like, making, like, little songs about, like, you know, so you can, like, memorize the Alphabet or, like, so you can memorize the planets or whatever. I feel like music is a pretty good educational tool because it's like, everybody learns in a different way, but for, like, 99% of people, everyone kind of gets music. It's kind of, like an unspoken language. So I feel like, you know, despite everyone kind of learning in different ways, music is something that everybody has, like, a inclination to. So it kind of helps. It helps you, like, learn things, because it's more of, like, a subconscious thing that, like, just helps you approach it in a different way.

06:37 Yeah. Okay. That's really interesting. And do you, like, in reference to that, do you have any personal experiences you'd like to share where music has taught you something valuable or expanded your understanding of a certain subject or concept?

06:54 I think growing up because I was really into punk music at first, a lot of that, especially earlier in, like, the history of punk music, it was very based around, like, you know, like, kind of defying norms, whether that's, like, gender, like, just, like, societal norms. So it's kind of. I feel like that helped from, like, a younger age, kind of gave me more of, like, an understanding of, like, I guess, like, lgbtq, like, people in, like, that sense kind of educated me on how to, like, be more accepting of people that, like, are different from me. Whereas, like, you know, maybe at that time, especially the cultural persuasive attitude was a little bit more negative than it is now. So I think that music can help you be more empathetic to other people because of how, like, universal of a language it is.

07:46 Okay, okay. And with that in mind, how do you think music can influence or change societal perceptions and norms in response to that?

07:59 So I think it's like, something where, like, music can both induce change, but it's also as, like, everything. It's also kind of like, at the whims of society because, like, I don't know. And, like, something I always think about is, like, how in a short time we've gone from, like, you know, in the 60s, it started out with, like, you know, very just, like, pop music, like the Beatles and, like, all that. And then it kind of shifted into more, like, psychedelic kind of music with, like, you know, Jimi Hendrix and, like, the Grateful Dead, more so like, getting into, like, the 70s. And then in the 80s, it was very, like, hair metal, like, very theatrical kind of music. And then 90s is grunge. And then recently, it's also kind of like, gone into a rap direction. So I think it's kind of just kind of, like, emblematic of, like, how society was at those points. Whereas, like, you know, in the 70s, when it was, like, more like psychedelic or the 60s, it was, like, that was a time of a lot of, like, personal change in, like, society where people were kind of fed up with, like, wars going on. People were indulging into, like, new, like, substances. There was, like, a whole new war on drugs. And then there was, like. It was becoming a lot more accepted for women both to, like, have, like, different roles other than, like, the gender roles they had been assigned. And also people were kind of trying to break out of, like, the cultural culture that settled in the 50s, where it was very, like, you know, you get a job, you buy a house, and you settle down and have children. And I think that music kind of furthered that kind of rebellion in younger people at that time.

09:43 Yeah, I love how you worded that in terms of, like. I feel like at that time, it was very. The perception of how to, like, control your life through music was very malleable, and it gave you a lot of, like, power. And I like how you worded that, and that's what made me think of that.

10:02 Yeah.

10:02 And can you recall, like, through, like, forms of transformation, like, with music, can you recall a specific moment or period in your life where music played a significant role in your personal growth, growth or transformation?

10:19 I think, probably, like, at, like, the end of high school and then, like, going into what came after that, because I graduated high school in 2019. And so, you know, that was right before the pandemic hit. So it was like, you know, I'm out of high school, I'm trying to figure out what to do with my life, and then all of a sudden, something comes along that just forces me to kind of stay in and not really. I'm not able to really take any steps in my life. So I'm kind of stuck in that place. And then I think that getting into the music I did, which I got into like, a lot of like, more so like folk and like emotional music. And then also at the same time I was also kind of getting into like, more like funk and like jazz based music. And I think that at that time I was focusing. There's nothing you can do but like, focus on yourself when you're like, locked up and you really know what to do with your life. So I think that at that time, music was helping me get in touch with my emotional state, I guess.

11:22 Okay, okay. I appreciate that vulnerability. And earlier you mentioned that cultural identity in reference to music and identity as a whole. And I was wondering, how does. Sorry, what do you. How do you think music intersects with cultural identity both for you personally and in a broader sense?

11:49 I always think of. For like, personally, it's hard to say necessarily, like, because like, I guess culturally there is like a lot of music, like, especially like grunge from like, you know, like Seattle or like Chicago and stuff like that. There was a lot of like, angst, obviously amongst like, people who grew up around that time because there's a lot of deindustrialization going on. There's a lot of like, steel plants closing. You know, all the jobs that used to be there for people like in those industrial areas are gone. And so there's a lot of like, confusion and like, angst about that. So I think that I kind of relate to music in that way where it feels like, you know, there's less of a direction for young people now and things seem harder. And then another way I always think of it is like, throughout musical history, at least from like the 50s to the 60s and onwards, I feel like, like black culture has always played like a big role in like what's shaped like a lot of what the Beatles did or like Led Zeppelin, it was based off of like gospel or blues music. And then even like popular music today is still based off of those cultural traditions. It's just now very more like rap based. Which still has its beginnings in like gospel and blues music.

13:10 Yeah, yeah. And like. Yeah, like, your ideas are really helping me like, confront such conflicting ideals. Especially like with such a time with grunge and the locations of Seattle and Chicago. I did. I wasn't aware of that. With that, I imagine like. Yeah, like, labor struggle in those areas. Areas. So that's really interesting. I didn't realize I wasn't too aware of that. So I'm glad you were like, able to shed some light on that for me and the listeners. And how do you use music as a means of self expression to understand your cultural identity?

13:52 I think because I feel like today, like, cultural identity especially, like, obviously we see like, a lot of, like, increasing, like, radicalization among like, young, like, white men, both, like, feelings of like, anger and like, loneliness, like drug addiction rates, like, shooting up, all of that. There's obviously some sort of, like, crisis involving like, how. I guess, like that population has both lost a lot of their privilege, but they still do hold, like, the utmost, like, privileged place in society. And I think that music kinda has helped me, like, come to terms with not really knowing exactly what the future holds, whether for myself or for like, the rest of society. Because a lot of the music I listen to or a lot of music I like personally write is related to that kind of struggle of trying to find your identity or come to terms with, like, what your place in the world is supposed to be.

14:59 Yeah. Okay. And with that being said, finally looking ahead, how do you envision music continuing to influence your life and shape your identity in the future?

15:09 I think that as I've gotten older and both like, better at like, playing music, and also my listening tastes have gotten more varied. I think that I've definitely been, like, I've been performing a lot more like my own music. I've been writing. I've been feeling like more of an urge to branch off and try to do my own thing musically, to try to find some sort of satisfaction out of that. And I feel like for me personally, music has ultimately become a very important part of my life. And it's a way where I can both like, bond with my friends and my significant other, both from just like, going out to concerts or like, playing music with them or writing songs about them. And I feel like as I get older, it can only bring like, more of a positive impact in my life. As long as I can stay disciplined and continue, like, focusing on it.

16:09 Yeah, I love that. I love to hear that. And do you have any final thoughts on what you're referring to or like, the power of music to educate, inspire, and drive such social change, like how it's done for you?

16:27 I think that ultimately, like, as I've said, like, music is like the ultimate, like, it's one of like, the most natural things. Like, almost everybody has like, a sense of rhythm or like a sense of like, melody. And so it's very easy for, like, through music, for you to meet people that you might not have other met because it's something that's, like, so easy for a lot of people to relate to. It's also something that I think has the potential to kind of bring a lot of people together through, like, different cultures and the way that, like, popular music in America has taken on aspects from, like, black culture, like Latino culture, all of that, and even, like, European culture. So I think the kind of synthesis that comes from merging all of those different beliefs and cultural identities can only ultimately have a popular or a positive impact because it's going to bring our cultures closer together. So maybe we can be a little bit more communicative and understanding of each other.

17:35 Yeah. Thank you so much for your words and wisdom, Jalen, and I appreciate it so much.

17:41 Of course. Thank you to having me.