Tracy Yellen and Ruben Vogt

[00:00] TRACY YELLEN: My name is Tracy Yellen. I am 52 years old. It is January 13, 2023, and I am here in El Paso, Texas, along with my great friend, Ruben Vogt.

[00:11] RUBEN VOGT: My name is Ruben Vogt. I am 38 years old. Today is January 13, 2023, in the beautiful, fantastic border city of El Paso, Texas, being interviewed by my dear friend, Tracy Yellen.

[00:24] TRACY YELLEN: Thank you, Ruben, so much for being willing to come together to share your story, share some of what is our common story and kind of what brought us together, but then more specifically to share your story and your journey to where we are today. We met many years ago, and we've known each other for a long time, but I would say that we became forever friends by a very unique and difficult experience that brought us together. Many people know on August 3, 2019, there was a horrific shooting where a gunman came from 6, 800 miles from our city, drove to open fire at a Walmart in our community, purposely to kill, harm, scar forever our community. And I am the CEO of the Paso Del Norte Community Foundation. In that. In that moment after the shooting, so many of us wondered, what should we do? And in that moment, we helped set up a fund for the victims and casualties and family and friends of victims of that shooting called the El Paso Victims Relief Fund. That became one fund, El Paso, to provide financial support to victims and their families. And we had first responders. I mean, the immediate thing was the health and safety of our people and responding to the needs of that horrible shooting. And then to be able to facilitate this philanthropy and goodwill that people within our community from outside, all over the world wanted to do something with us in our community. And you were willing, in the aftermath of that, to chair a committee that took this $12 million of generosity to support the victims of families of 23 people who were killed, dozens who were injured, physically injured, and hundreds who suffered psychological trauma from that shooting. So that's what, to me, sort of cemented our friendship, that forever friendship. And that experience, what do you remember from that time and from that experience?

[02:48] RUBEN VOGT: Yeah, I think you hit the nail right on the head, Tracy, when it was a traumatic experience that will, I think, forever live in the history of our community and hopefully in the minds of people across the country and the world, because it's something that should never be forgotten. The unfortunate rhetoric that causes such hatred in the world that would cause someone to feel like doing this kind of harm was somehow justified in their mind. I think it's one of those moments where all of us who live Here and many others outside remember where they were when that took place. I was picking up my vehicle from a car dealership. It had had some issues, and I was sitting in the lobby watching the news. And at first I thought it was just one of those situations that you hear like, oh, there might be something happening. But in fact, there were. There was video clips of people running out of the Walmart. I work at our large public hospital here in El Paso, and it's the only Trauma One hospital. So I knew right away that there were going to be victims taken to our facility. So as soon as my vehicle was ready, in the next 10, 15 minutes of sitting there in agony watching this take place, hopped in my car, went straight to the hospital. And when I got there, it was an overwhelming. An overwhelming sight to see so many physicians and nurses. Everyone had come in, they had seen the news, whether asked or not, just to be there to help our community and be present. And so it was a day that will forever live in my mind and my heart. And as you mentioned, within that week got the call to serve as the chair of the One Fund Committee. Something that was a little scary when you first think about it, right? Because you have no idea what we're embarking on. We've never had to deal with something like this. Uncharted territory. But I knew that we needed to do something to help our community begin to heal. And the fact that we were seeing so much generosity pour in from across the world just made me feel so happy. There are a couple of things that do stand out for me from that work on the committee and that day, the committee members were fantastic. They were amazing, so committed. The generosity that we saw come in was overwhelming. I remember we held a community meeting. Several. And the thing that stood out to me the most was person after person that came up to share their need or their story or how they had been victimized by this situation. They were all thankful for the fact that we had gathered together to try to find a way to help them. And it is kind of the story of the border. It is what the border to me exemplifies, which is the best of humanity constantly coming out of El Pasoans to be there for one another. When someone is seeking refuge at the border, our community is there to help them. And it was no different on August 3rd. But I guess I shouldn't have been surprised of what the community response was going to be, but it was incredibly heartening to know that we were all in it together and trying to get through it.

[05:59] TRACY YELLEN: Yeah, that is such a beautiful recollection of what is so important about our community. The generosity, the resilience, the gratitude in the wake of something so horrific. I will also always remember being in that gym where there were hundreds of people that came out to give us guidance on how we might distribute this philanthropy and goodwill to be the most supportive and beneficial. And I just openly cried that day for the beauty of that gratitude, for the pain of the tragedy, and also with you. We're so grateful to all the people who came together to help us manage that. Hopefully history will tell us that, you know, we all did that very, very well, which, of course, we're proud of, to have played a small role in helping people heal and having the resources they need to heal.

[06:55] RUBEN VOGT: Absolutely.

[06:56] TRACY YELLEN: I was also so struck in that process at what a great young leader you are. Were a few years ago, you were even younger as a young leader in stewarding the volunteers, the committee, the community, through that process. And it's always stayed with me. It's never been lost on me just how good you are at leadership. And it just comes from a humble, beautiful place and very authentic and all the things you would want a great leader to be. So let's look at that a little bit. Let's talk about that. Why don't we just start. Tell us about yourself. Tell us about your family. You know, what was it? What was your family like? What was your experience growing up?

[07:46] RUBEN VOGT: Yeah. So many people who might hear this. If you do I look like your typical gringo, which is a Spanish word for a white guy. Right. But I'm actually Hispanic. Spanish. Spanish is my first language, and so it's very typical to many people living and growing up on the border. My mother was born in Juarez, our sister city here in El Paso, and came to the United States at 5 years old. My father was born in Canutillo Texas, a small community right outside of El Paso, and his mother is from Mexico as well, and my grandfather is German. So the German genes clearly came into full effect on my end. But my parents are high school sweethearts. They had me at a very early age, 18 and 19, and have stayed the course. As difficult as marriage can be, they have gone through all the ups and downs together and really did everything they could to provide as much as they could for their one and only son. I'm the only child. My mom got sick when I was young and could not have kids for quite some time. And when they told her that, she probably could consider that thought I was already a teenager and I Don't think they could fathom the idea of starting all over again. Had a very, very humble background. My parents. My mom is a receptionist. She's been a receptionist her entire life for doctors. The current doctor she's been working for, she's been with for 27 years. And so she's the face of the offices that she works for, and I think does an amazing job of being that for the people she works for. My dad worked for a convenience store as a store manager his whole life. And so they taught me a lot when it came to hard work and perseverance. They ended up buying a small little farm in Canutillo where they raised me. I had my chores, a list of things to do before I could see my friends on the weekend. And so it really fostered this amazing sense of doing all the time, always working hard work, ethical work. And so I really appreciate everything that they taught me growing up. They also gave me some really great lessons when it came to, like, not giving up. For example, I joined the basketball team when I was in high school, and that was absolutely terrible. Tracy, you have come from a family of great basketball folks, and so I'm so sorry to tell you that I am in. No, we can't play. I can't play basketball. No. They would try to put me in. I would ask them not to. They put me in at the end of a game when we're down by 20, and asked them not to toss the ball over to me. They did. I ran across the court as fast as I could, trying to dribble that ball and make a layup, and I missed. And I looked back and realized that I was shooting for the other team. Um, still missed it. So. But my dad told me, he said, look, you've joined the team. You're not going to quit. I'm not going to let you be a quitter. You're going to write out this season, and then you don't have to join again. And so all those things are really helpful for me. Little things like my mom telling me, hablando sentient. Through communication, we better understand one another. And that's how you're going to get through really tough situations. So that's a little bit about my family and how I grew up, and so appreciative of that background.

[11:07] TRACY YELLEN: So you grew up in Cano Dio, which is, you know, a stone's throw from the US Mexico border. El Paso is actually a very big urban city. People may not know how to visualize our community, but we have 800,000 people that live in the city. 850,000 or so in El Paso county, which includes Cana Tio. A million and a half in Juarez. So it is a, you know, vibrant metroplex. Canatillo was a lot more rural probably at the time and didn't have all of the paved roads and even water and sewer service. And, you know, it's grown since then. But you grew up in kind of rural America, on the border in a lot of ways, in this agricultural sort of setting. Your parents didn't graduate from college, but very hardworking. What was their hope and dream for you? Was college expected? Is it something that you talked about?

[12:02] RUBEN VOGT: You know, they always talked about it to me and it was always an expectation. You know, my dad went to college for a couple of years and didn't finish, unfortunately, because they had me. And, you know, you go straight to work and provide for your family. So the first in my family to graduate from college. But it was something that was really not a, an option, I guess. I mean, obviously I could choose not to go, but they expected for that to be something for me. And my dad always said, it doesn't matter where you go, you can go anywhere. I just want you to go and get an education. That's the way that you're going to build a life for yourself and be self sustaining. And he said even if you stay here in El Paso and go to Harvard on the border, as he would so lovingly call utep, because that was our institution and it was doing really great things. And so I did end up going to utep. I received a scholarship to attend. I got my bachelor's there in English and Political science and a master's in Intelligence and National Security studies. And so it was a great time. It was an awesome opportunity to still be at home, do a lot of really great things, and be a part of the transformation that we were trying to help create in El Paso.

[13:16] TRACY YELLEN: So you really could have gone anywhere. You were a really good student in high school. You could have qualified to have gone anywhere. So our listeners know were featured as one of the top teens in the country in Stephen Covey's Chicken Soup for the Soul that featured teenagers. And I don't know if it's ironic, but just for some perspective, you follow Donald Trump Jr. Alphabetically, at least in that book. But here you are, a young person from Canatillo, Texas. You know, a good high school student, you know, chooses to go to the local university. Tell us about utep. How, how did that help shape your life? And your careers, because there's some really remarkable things that happen, happened while you were there.

[14:07] RUBEN VOGT: Yeah. So I received a scholarship to attend utep and that was really important to me. I knew that I wanted to be able to financially afford. Going to college, I think is a worry for everybody. I, like many on the border, worked while I went to school. My first job was at a JCPenney, then worked for an attorney as a runner. But really the big thing that drew me to UTEP and something that I still to this day think about is the mission that it was on. Many people may or may not know that Dr. Diana Natalicio was a president of UTEP. And over the years, I think she was the second longest serving female president for a public institution at the time. And her big mantra was access and excellence and ensuring that anyone that wanted to go to school and get an education could do so, and that there's no reason why our university on the border couldn't be a fantastic place to get that access. She knew that in order for our community to move forward, we needed to have an incredibly educated workforce and local community. And so went to UTEP and really got on this bandwagon around that mantra that I also wanted to, to some extent, figure out a way to help move the needle when it came to our community. Putting El Paso on the map, putting UTEP on the map. And she really was a big inspiration to me. Such a pioneer in higher education, but really transformed our regional university into a top tier research university in the country.

[15:44] TRACY YELLEN: And in fact, before she retired, she was recognized by Time magazine as one of the hundred most influential people in our country, or maybe it was even in the world. Tell me some of your experiences at UTEP that really shaped your leadership and your journey.

[16:01] RUBEN VOGT: Yeah. So having grown up in Cano Tio, as I mentioned, very humble beginnings. But I had people when I was going through high school, middle school, who really helped me move forward. I'll give you one example. I was in elementary school, I think it was, and they had put me in a class where I wasn't necessarily advancing as fast as I was hoping to. And the teacher at the time, his name was Mr. Smart, met with my parents and said, he really is a bright student. I don't know that he is getting everything he needs. And so my parents asked him to give me more work, give him work during lunch, give him more work, send him home with homework, extra work even, and we're going to help him just continue this path forward. And he did. And along the journey, there are little stories like that of people who are just helping ensure that I, and many others I'm sure, were getting to a better place. And so while I was at utep, I wanted for others who had a desire to do more for our community to have the ability to do so. And so at 19, I was a sophomore at UTEP, started a program called Synergy Civic Youth Energy. And it provided underprivileged students just like me, who were not necessarily top 10 in their class at the time, but who had this strong desire to help their community build and do something, have the power tools and awareness to be able to take action around any issue, whether it was women's rights issues, environmental issues, LGBTQ rights issues, but that they had the power to believe in themselves and the tools that they needed, whether it was asset mapping, how to communicate with the media, you name it, and an awareness of what was already happening in our community and where the gaps were, and taking all that into account, coming up with their own action plan for doing something in their high school. So we would take high school juniors and seniors, we would train them over the summer to learn about power tools, awareness, and then creating that action plan and then helping them for a year execute that plan. And our goal in Synergy was really to create a generation of folks that were willing, able, and ready to take action around the things that are helping define our communities, whether it was here in El Paso or if they went away to college somewhere else, that they would always remember where they learned some of these skills and eventually, hopefully come back and share their talent with our community. Because we were seeing such a brain drain in El Paso and still to some extent are. But we're starting to see so many people come back. The goal was to create our small little impact in trying to get more people to have those skills to run for office one day, to come back and transform and continue to move El Paso forward. That was a really great opportunity. Some of the work around Synergy led to. As a junior, I applied for the Harriet Truman Scholarship, which is a national scholarship, incredibly competitive. It's awarded to 70 college juniors, and you're talking about students from Harvard, Stanford, Yale who are competing. UTEP had never had a student receive the award. And so when I was called in, I was called in to ask if I would apply, if I was interested. I had one week to submit this incredibly long and arduous application process, no offense to the Truman folks. And several weeks later got a call to interview for the scholarship and was flown to Dallas and a Couple weeks after that, received what I believe is part of the transformational news to have been awarded the scholarship. It's a $30,000 scholarship for students that show promise and public service for their higher level of degrees, whether law school, masters, whatever it might be. And was one of 70 students, I think one of maybe three in Texas that were selected that year, so incredibly honored to represent UTEP in that capacity. I believe, again, the first UTEP student to have been awarded. And after that came a call to maybe share a story. And Chicken Soup for the Soul, which I thought was a prank call at the very beginning, a friend of mine, they left a voicemail with a colleague of mine at the center for Civic Engagement, which is where we housed Synergy. And they said, hey, Chicken Soup for the Soul call. They asked if you'd call them back. And I thought, whose idea of a joke is this? So I called them back and I remember asking them, like, this is really Chicken Soup for the Soul. And it was. So they had someone interview me. We went over iterations. It is now in the book. And so proud of that. You know, I never expected any of this to come from just trying to do some good for our community, and so was very thankful for that. And some of the other highlights from utep. You know, as a minority serving institution, I did end up getting my master's at utep. I can talk a little bit more about the decision to do that and why utep. But in intelligence and national security studies, which afforded me the opportunity to travel across the globe, I was in the Middle east quite a bit, in Egypt, Tunisia, Israel, Jordan, Paris, learning about cultures and language. And the rationale behind UTEP having this program was 9 11. Part of what was discovered in the report around what occurred on 911 was the lack of imagination around an event like that taking place in our country. And they really wanted to bolster the intelligence community with more minority perspectives, quite frankly. And so UTEP was one of a couple of institutions that received a large grant to be able to create the program and start to train students not only in El Paso, but across the world. So those were some of the experiences that really helped define my experience at UTEP and some of the work that we did.

[22:12] TRACY YELLEN: So you graduate from college, you're a top 10 senior, you've had so many unique experiences for someone your age, and you choose to go to Austin to go fight for our community with State Senator Elliot Shapleigh You returned to El Paso to get a master's and work for County Commissioner Veronica Escobar. Who becomes County Judge Veronica Escobar, who becomes Congresswoman Veronica Escobar. But in an amazing journey and another testament to your leadership, when Congresswoman Escobar resigns to be county judge. And again, for our listeners, the county judge is the CEO of El Paso county, and they run county transportation and courts, the judicial system, and they oversee our county hospital. And, you know, so many important functions. You are appointed by the commissioners on that court. You know, there's no politician. There isn't somebody else, and they look to you as to be that leader. So we're kind of making a leap here to talk about this, but tell us about that experience or even sort of your career to kind of get to that experience.

[23:29] RUBEN VOGT: Yeah, so I took a gap year after undergrad, and to your point, took the time to really want to delve into some of the work that was happening in our community, and worked for Senator Elliot Shapleigh half the time here in El Paso in the district office, and then moved to Austin to served during the 80th legislative session, which is 16 years ago, which seems like, gosh, such a long time, and had the really phenomenal opportunity at that age to work on passing nine pieces of legislation, which was amazing. And I'm so thankful to the senator for the opportunity he gave me. But he really was an amazing visionary for our community and where we needed to go and to be. And just like now, Congresswoman Escobar really encouraging all of us to think bigger for what El Paso was, who we needed to be, and rise to the challenge of changing the narrative that had been created for us on who the border was. And so it was an exciting time. Worked for the senator, and then after coming back to El Paso, did get the master's degree. But I did so while working for then Commissioner Veronica Escobar and had intended to stay at the county for two to three years, but ended up staying 411. I remember the interview with the congresswoman now, and when she was a commissioner, she said, look, I want to do a lot, but there are three immediate things that I want us to achieve, and that's addressing ecotourism, mental health, and creating collaborative services amongst all of the taxing entities so that we are helping reduce. Reduce the property tax burden on our local community. And so worked on all of those items. I, interestingly, started at the county just a couple of months after the FBI had raided the organization. Unfortunately, the county had been marred in corruption for quite some time from leadership down. And so knowing that I knew that we were going to have, along with the county judge, the commissioner at the time, the big task of transforming that organization and rebuilding public trust and who the county was and where we needed to go as a community. And so for those 11 years, most of the work was working side by side with Commissioner Escobar, County Judge Escobar, and really ensuring that that's exactly what we did, transform the organization into something that we could all be proud of. And ultimately, at the end of the day, was asked to interview to serve as county judge. And I remember that day very vividly. The court was an executive session, mulling over a couple of names of folks that they were considering. And I was packing up the county judge's office, and she said, do you have any interest in interviewing for the county judge position? And I laughed and I said, are you kidding me? She goes, no. The court has asked if you're interested. And in fact, it was the Republican member of the court, Andrew Hagerty, and I consider myself a Democrat. And so I was even more honored not only for the fact that they had asked, but that it was from the Republican member of the court who was a fantastic community leader. And so I interviewed and didn't expect to be appointed. And I was. And it was incredibly exciting and a transformational opportunity for me and being able to work with an amazing group of community leaders on the commissioner's court, but also the opportunity to work with amazing public servants at the county who are just phenomenal and they bleed El Paso every day. And so for that year and a half that I had the chance to serve, we continued on the trajectory to move the community forward as much as we possibly could.

[27:27] TRACY YELLEN: That is, to me, just such a great example of, you know, just yet another example of your leadership and success. You are not someone, to me who is or seems ambitious for yourself, but you're ambitious for your community and our region. And also in that work with Commissioner Escobar, really fighting for honesty and ethics in government. It is one of those things that you exude, and then that trust and confidence in sort of bringing people together, which you did so well in the One Fund Committee, and you did so well as the county judge for El Paso. You have, you know, really been recognized and supported many unique ways and lots of firsts, of course, but that Truman award, that top 10 senior that becoming. I think you were even the head of the Texas Democrats at one point.

[28:24] RUBEN VOGT: I helped. Yeah, I helped with a friend of mine who served as the president of the Texas Young Democrats, served as executive director with him. I mean, it was kind of a title that he came up with, but really helping spearhead where the movement of the Young Democrats of Texas was going in an exciting time for us.

[28:44] TRACY YELLEN: And then in 2016, you were named by the El Paso Chamber Award as a breakthrough leader as well, for something we haven't talked about yet, and that is for your advocacy for the LGBT community. And you are openly gay and married. And, you know, that hasn't been part of our conversation yet. In terms of your identity and values and things that are important, you. Why don't you kind of share that and that experience with our listeners?

[29:16] RUBEN VOGT: Yeah. So I am openly and proudly gay. It is a part of who I am. It is not who I am, but something that I definitely never shy away from talking about. I think for many people in the LGBTQI community, everyone has a different journey and a different story around coming out. I had a unfortunate way of coming out, but still glad that it happened the way that it did for the sake of it occurring. But when I moved to Austin to work for Senator Shapleigh my best friend moved to Austin with me. And so we lived together in Austin. He was doing work remotely. He owned his own business. And unfortunately, while we were there, he was taken from us way too soon in a very tragic situation. And that situation caused me actually to move back to El Paso. I had received a full ride scholarship to go to UT Austin LGBT LBJ School of Public Policy. And I say full ride, but it was a very generous scholarship. But in light of what occurred, I opted to stay in El Paso, and I didn't want to take another year. I had already taken that gap year to work for the senator. And so I decided to go to utep. But when I moved back after the situation that occurred with my best friend Greg, I told myself that if my parents asked me, are you gay? That the first word that was going to come out of my mouth was yes. And so I went home. Was dealing with the loss of my best friend, which was incredibly tragic in and of itself. And I had never told my parents that I was living with my best friend Greg, because I was afraid they knew that he was gay. And I was afraid that if they knew I was living with Greg, that the question would come. And I wasn't necessarily ready for that. But when my mom asked me, I said yes, just came out of my mouth, and she ran to the toilet and started dry heaving, and it worried me. And we're both crying, and I was begging her not to tell my dad, and she tried to Keep it for as long as she could. But he knew that something was wrong, and she eventually broke and told him. So the day that I got home, and I knew that he knew he would not come in the house. I ended up going outside to him and I was crying. And the first words that came out of his mouth, where did you think you weren't going to have a dad anymore? So I, you know, crying even more profusely, thinking, okay, things are good. But the days and weeks to follow were incredibly difficult for us to get through that. And I knew it was going to be an education process for them and a process for me and patients, because you can't expect for everyone just to hear this kind of news when it's your own child and just be okay with it. And we move on. Unfortunately, that wasn't our story. So it did take maybe a year for things to settle in a bit more and be okay for our family. But my mother was a huge, amazing advocate in that. She told me, look, you're my son and I will defend you until the day that I'm gone. And even with family members. And so she. She held my hand through the entire process and thankful for that. But from all of that, from the loss of my best friend Greg, who I will say was this beautiful soul, this lover of life, who I asked at one point, don't you wish that we weren't gay? And he said, no, like, we live such colorful lives with art and culture and music and history. I wouldn't want to be anything else but gay. And so he also empowered me to think of being gay in this nice way, this great way. Right. And so when he passed, I really wanted to, in his memory, ensure that I and others from El Paso were a part of ensuring that our rights were always defended. Because I can look back 10 years ago and be incredibly thankful for people who are no longer here who fought for me to be able to have a better life as a member of our community. And so based off of that, I joined the board for Equality Texas and have been on the board for several years now in fighting for our rights in an incredibly red state. As you all know, in Texas, every session killing 26 pieces of legislation or more that are looking to erode our rights. I'm thankful for the Equality Texas team and everything they do day in, day out. We just started a legislative session this Tuesday, and we have quite the journey ahead of us. It is a traumatizing experience to go through what the family of our trans community kids have to go through to go to Austin and testify on behalf of their rights. But I'm incredibly proud of the work that we're doing and in protecting what so many people have fought so strongly for us to have. And I am married to Carlos Martinez, this wonderful, amazing human being from El Paso who I met through work at the. He lived in Austin for 20 years. He was visiting, doing work here, and the rest is history. But I would not be able to have that amazing opportunity and speak openly like this had it not been for the giants that came before us in fighting for our rights.

[34:48] TRACY YELLEN: Really, when you knew Greg and were friends and had this horrible tragedy, which is part of your coming out story and experience, there wasn't. There weren't many rights in Texas or in this country for LGBTQ people to marry. And even when you met Carlos, I don't think that was something that was legal or possible. And you remember that moment by chance and sort of how that evolved, you know, brought you to where it is, where you are today.

[35:19] RUBEN VOGT: I do. I was driving from my home to the county courthouse for work. I was driving on the border highway for. For those that are not from El Paso. That is a freeway literally along the U.S. mexico border, where you drive along the unfortunate border wall that has divided our communities. And I was listening to npr, believe it or not, and they were covering the Supreme Court decision, and they announced that gay marriage was now legal in the United States. I remember tearing up, smiling at people, texting me and calling me, saying, like, you guys can get married now. And everyone's so excited. Got to the courthouse. The county judge at the time, Veronica Escobar, who was my boss, was also thrilled. I remember that night we all went out and celebrated with many others the decision by the Supreme Court. And so it's another one of those moments where you remember where you were and how important it was. And I'm just. It sad to me to know that we are in a place where all of the movement that our community has made is threatened yet again. Not just for the LGBTQ community, but for women's rights and for rights of so many others, that our time for advocacy is just as important now as it was back then.

[36:41] TRACY YELLEN: Yeah. And so that driving on the border and recognizing progress, but knowing that we still have so much more progress to make. The beauty of the border is something that has defined you and all of us, and probably a good place for us to kind of end our conversation. And our time together today is really talking about this special place. There are people that have these, like, Horrible misconceptions that our binational tri state community, it's El Paso, southern New Mexico and Ciudad Juarez in Chihuahua, Mexico. Two and a half million people is beautiful, you know, over 4,000ft, desert, southwest, kind, generous, safe community, you know, a big part of who you are kind of and have become with opportunities in all the ways that you've described today. Any comments about, about this place? And as we wrap up.

[37:42] RUBEN VOGT: Yeah, I think for so many people, geography means opportunity. But I think for many that means New York, California, Louisiana, big metropolitan areas that offer what so many people would think it is what you need to be successful in life. And for me, geography does mean opportunity. But for me, geography and opportunity mean the border. So much of what makes our country and our world successful and tick every day goes on at the border. From trade, people crossing over, families, love. Everything to me is centered around the beauty that is the border. And I know that for me personally, I would not have had the opportunities that I had had it not been for growing up in El Paso and finding the love and the generosity, selflessness and helping one another get to a better place in life that is and makes El Paso such a beautiful and unique place. And every time I leave El Paso, whether it's just for travel, for fun or for work or whatever it was, I can. And I know when we land and we see the mountains and the skyline, I'm home. Because El Paso is to me God's country and a place that will always be in my heart.

[39:00] TRACY YELLEN: Reuben Vogt, you are a very special person. We're so grateful that you've shared your story today. I'm so grateful to you for sharing your story. The first chapter of your life is well documented in Chicken Soup for the Soul. This next chapter of your life is now part of StoryCorps forever to be recognized, recorded and maintained. And I can't wait to read that next chapter and wherever that will be published or located. Our community and our country and our world is so lucky to have you in it. And so for all of that, thank you.

[39:40] RUBEN VOGT: I appreciate you, Tracy. Quite frankly, it's leaders like you that inspire folks like me to do for our community. And I hope that people take the time and opportunity to learn about our dear friend Tracy Allen too, because she is quite the force here in El Paso. So thank you to to you and to StoryCorps for being in El Paso and capturing the really fantastic stories of the border. We appreciate.