Wendy Gordon and Loretta Washington

[00:02] WENDY GORDON: My name is Wendy Loretta Gordon. I'm 73 years young. Today is October 18, 2023. I'm at the Florissant Valley Library in Florissant, Missouri, and I'm being interviewed by Loretta Washington, who is one of my dearest friends.

[00:28] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Hi, Wendy. Hello. Hi, Wendy. Loretta. I am Loretta Washington. I'm 78 years old. Today is October 18, 2023, and I'm at the Florissant Valley library with Wendy in Florissant, Missouri. And from that, I guess we'll get started. Okay. Wendy, can you tell me about the important people in your life?

[01:00] WENDY GORDON: Well, there were so many, but I would say, first and foremost, my parents were some of the most important people in my life, and also my children, Sean and Tiffany.

[01:15] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay. And I would like to just mention one person for me, the most important, influential person in my life was my grandmother. And she had the weirdest name. Her name was May Tanky Belle Walker. And on that note, I'll go to the next question. Okay. Who has been the biggest influence in your life? What lessons did that person teach you?

[01:48] WENDY GORDON: I would say to that my father, and I think the biggest lesson he taught me is about getting your education. He used to always say, no matter what you learn, even if it is the teacher's name, you've learned something. He said that education is something that will stay with you, and it's something that will help you grow throughout the years. And I believe that to be true. Could I turn that question around, ask you the same?

[02:26] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay, probably education also, because growing up in a time where it was not as easily done as said, you get an education, get an education. The doors were not open. The doors were. And the things were not there for us to do that we could apply for schools for us to go to. I remember when I graduated from high school, they opened up the first two year community college here in St. Louis. Nobody had ever heard of a two year college. And it was hard to get into. And we had one person from our class to be able to go, and she got a scholarship to go. So education back then was really, really hard. And it was something that people. We wanted our kids to do, our parents wanted us to do better, but it was not that easy.

[03:17] WENDY GORDON: Could I ask you what the name of the college was?

[03:19] LORETTA WASHINGTON: It was the St. Louis community College. The very first one was in south St. Louis and Cleveland high School, I believe. And it was not, you know, we were all north city kids. We had no way to get there. They were night classes, and it was just not a convenient thing to do. And at that time, a lot of people could not afford to go away to college. Or if you didn't get a scholarship, you know, your family didn't have the funds to pay for it. Loans were things that you filled out the application, and the person came to your house and talked to your parents, and your parents had to sign the loan. You could not even apply for it yourself. Your parents had to do it for.

[04:00] WENDY GORDON: Yeah, I remember the junior college. Cause I was some. I guess, of the many, I wouldn't say I was the first, but the first year that forest park college, I was one of the counting. And the first students that attended there.

[04:18] LORETTA WASHINGTON: That was the next one, because the first one, I think it was like a trial thing, and it was in a school that was already open as a high school, but you were, you know, a baby. You were five years younger than me. So five years after I couldn't go to the community college, they had built.

[04:38] WENDY GORDON: Forrest Park, I had it in the works there. And making the groundwork.

[04:42] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Exactly. Okay, are you ready for the next one? Can you tell me about a moment when a person's kindness made a difference in your life?

[04:56] WENDY GORDON: I think, yes. Looking back, I think I was in the 10th grade, and I used to always write poetry. But at that time, poetry wasn't popular for people to write. You know, African Americans, I put like that to write.

[05:16] LORETTA WASHINGTON: I understand.

[05:16] WENDY GORDON: And, you know, so I would write it and hide it, you know, and just, you know, have it, you know, because it wasn't a cool thing. I put it like that, the cool thing. So I had left my notebook in my room, and my teacher found it, and she opened it, and she said, did you write this? And I reluctantly said yes. And she said, it is fabulous, you know, and I wasn't expecting that reaction. It made me feel so proud, you know, that? And so she had me do it in front of the students, which I don't know if that turned out good or bad, because I was so nervous because, you know, you was worried about what your friends thought about you more so that, you know, what, it was the right things to do. But it stuck with me because I had been writing poetry for a while, and I never had the nerve to show anybody or present it in public, you know? So that was the first of my, you know, start of me reciting my poetry.

[06:31] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, okay. In high school, you said in high school. Oh, okay. Very good. Oh, my goodness. I didn't know it went back that far with you.

[06:39] WENDY GORDON: Yeah, well, I wrote always, you know, it used to be love poems. At first to my little boyfriends, and then it start, you know. You know, the roses are reduced, whatever, okay. And then it evolved, you know. Cause I've always, you know, like, poetry, you know, even Edgar Allan Poe and all that, you know, I just. But you didn't say that out loud.

[07:07] LORETTA WASHINGTON: She gonna be cool, you know?

[07:09] WENDY GORDON: And I wanted to be in, you know, with the. With the in crowd. Yeah. So.

[07:17] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, I've always admired ports because I thought I was going through some changes at one point in time in my life, and I decided to write take it all, put it all on paper. So I wrote it down, and then I looked at it, and it's like, oh, I could make these rhyme and I could make some poems out of these. So I did all of that. And I did. About those little spiral notebooks. I did three or four of those with my poems in there. And at the time I did them, I. At the time I did them, I thought, oh, my goodness, I got to save these because these are really good. So I packed them away. About 20 years later, I looked at those poems, and it's like, what in the world did I write? This does not make any sense at all. So I don't have that talent. You know, it's a gift. And I admire people who do have the talent to write poems because it seems so easy, but it's nothing. They have to. Poems have to come from a special place in your heart.

[08:15] WENDY GORDON: But you tell stories, you write stories. Everybody got their gifts. And that's true with me, it's hard not to rhyme. It came, I guess. I wouldn't know when it came. Popular, I guess, about in the eighties, nineties, when they call themselves spitting or whatever they called it. I could not do that because I always had wrote poems that rhyme each of the area of the line or every line, you know, so it took me a while. So it was something like had to. I went to class, took a class at the junior college. And I remember the teacher, Richard Newman. He was very, very good. And he was with that. The laureate guy just died. Not to Castro. Yeah, Castro, yeah, he. He was with him. And anyway, he showed me how to do it a while because it was a habit, you know, you get in the habit, but you. Storytelling came to me when I went to class, which you all, you know.

[09:27] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay.

[09:28] WENDY GORDON: Because it wouldn't make no sense. I couldn't keep it in sequence, you know, to me.

[09:32] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay, okay.

[09:33] WENDY GORDON: And now, I mean, I ain't gonna say I'm a nurse, but, you know, I feel more comfortable doing it well.

[09:41] LORETTA WASHINGTON: With me, storytelling and I guess it's like poetry is to you. It came so easy. I always enjoyed it so much. I never called it work. And when I used to travel out of town to do programs I used to travel with a couple other local storytellers and I would always say, oh, we're going on vacation. And they would look at me like, you're crazy. It's like, we're going to work. I said, no, it's a vacation. Because I enjoyed it so much. And I still do that. It has never really seemed like work to me. But once again, like I said, it's not something I forced myself to do. I didn't know I had the gift until I was 50 years old. So I got a late start in storytelling.

[10:25] WENDY GORDON: Well, me, I think that's when I started telling the stories after I retired and I met Liz. And that's when I met you at the storytelling festival. And, you know, I was like a kid in a candy, candy store asking questions and, hi.

[10:41] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Hi, how are you?

[10:43] WENDY GORDON: But it was so fascinating to me.

[10:47] LORETTA WASHINGTON: I remember meeting you back then and I didn't know what to think about you never told you that, but you kind of grew on me. And then I think you came to my church one time with the senior acting group and you all performed and I came up afterwards and reintroduce myself to you. And I think that's when we really start talking. And it's like, oh, she's not bad.

[11:11] WENDY GORDON: Yeah. Because people, I have this. I frowned a lot and I noticed that the people in my, the women in my family frowned all the time. But I didn't notice it until Liz told me. She said, when you sing, you frown when you, you know. And people are scared to approach you because I frown. And I've been trying to write a poem for, I mean, it's, I would say, the last 15 years about why I frown.

[11:40] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, my goodness.

[11:40] WENDY GORDON: You know, and it's really hard for me because it's kind of deep, you know, I'm going, oh, that's too deep. Nobody won't understand it with me, you know, so I gotta get it. I want to present it, you know, in layman terms, you know, so people can understand everybody. Be universal where everybody could understand it, you know, not just, you had to, you know, some poems like, you know, what did they mean? You know?

[12:05] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Well, when you do that poem, make sure don't keep that one a secret. I would love to hear it even before you decide you may want to publish it or what? I would still like to hear it. And I know how you can keep things quiet sometimes when you're not really sure that they are perfect to the point where you want other people to hear. So. I understand that, but I want to hear that point. Okay.

[12:27] WENDY GORDON: It's not done.

[12:28] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay. Work in progress. So I can't. I'm looking forward to hearing that one. Okay. Now I would like to ask you, what are some of the most important lessons you have learned in life, for.

[12:43] WENDY GORDON: Me is you get things in life when it's your time and not before.

[12:53] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, I agree.

[12:54] WENDY GORDON: I was always an anxious person. I was very hyper. And you're still hyper. Yeah. You know, but if you knew the day you like, girl, are you on something? But I always want it now, you know? And then I had been working in this job. I was a human resource associate, which is another name for secretary. That's what it was. And, you know, they just kind of clean it up. But I had been training people and training people. Everybody was getting promoted, me. And this one job, I just knew, you know, how you just. It's my time and didn't get it. I mean, it tore me down.

[13:43] LORETTA WASHINGTON: I understand.

[13:43] WENDY GORDON: It tore me down. And I had to, you know, sit down, calm down, reflect, and realize. I had to talk to some people because it hurt me just that bad, you know? And then they realized you don't get things till it's your time. Because I didn't get that job, but I got one better making more money.

[14:06] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay, so he put you in a place where you need to be and.

[14:11] WENDY GORDON: To build you for something else, right? Because I know I was qualified for the job, but I thought about it afterwards. I still would have been sitting in place. Some places, you know, you don't have no way out, right? You know, you're just there. So he put me in, and then I just, you know, went from there, you know, patience.

[14:34] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Patience. That's what we patient.

[14:36] WENDY GORDON: And I know patients like with you. You are very, very patient with me. Well, now I'm way, way better than I used to be because I know now that things are going to be the way they are. You can't change the way some things you can't change some things you can't. But a lot of the things that's handed to you, you're going to get them when you deserve them. Deserve. Because that's not necessarily true. You're going to get them when it's meant for.

[15:17] LORETTA WASHINGTON: When the time is right, when it's meant to happen. Amen to that, because that's called old fashioned faith and believing and trusting.

[15:26] WENDY GORDON: But I had to. I had to do some reflection on.

[15:29] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, yeah.

[15:30] WENDY GORDON: And I could see my growth from where I was to where I am now, you know?

[15:37] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Very good. Uh huh. I love that answer. That was good. That was touching. That was from the heart. And that's when you can tell that you learned those lessons and your life is built around those now, the life that you're living now. And you can tell that it's from the heart and you have to go through certain changes. I believe in life to get to that point and feel that way. And so when that happens, you just kind of sit back and enjoy the ride because, you know, and understand that things are going to happen when they are supposed to happen. I've lived my life pretty much like that, too. I was kind of forced into believing that, but I'm so glad I believed, was forced into believing it because now I am so comfortable in where I'm at.

[16:24] WENDY GORDON: Right.

[16:25] LORETTA WASHINGTON: And that was my next year.

[16:26] WENDY GORDON: I'm comfortable from where I landed, you know?

[16:30] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Exactly. So comfortable. Okay. And so that kind of leads me into what was your earliest memory of something?

[16:42] WENDY GORDON: Okay. Now, my earliest memory is not. I guess it's kind of. Well, I'm just gonna say it. I was like three or four years old, and I see a dead bed laying in the street.

[16:59] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, my goodness.

[17:00] WENDY GORDON: And it never left me. You know, I'm 73 years old today, and you were three or four then. And I remember falling. This is how I'm remembering this story now. I remember falling. And my older sister that was with me picked me up and we ran in the house. But you know, how story goes, you add to them or whatever.

[17:25] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Right?

[17:26] WENDY GORDON: But I never forget that man had been shot in his head, you know.

[17:30] LORETTA WASHINGTON: And this was, like, terrible for a three or four year old.

[17:33] WENDY GORDON: Yeah. And that's why scary movies. It took me a while to even go to a few. You know what I mean?

[17:40] LORETTA WASHINGTON: I can understand why.

[17:42] WENDY GORDON: And then I had older brothers and sisters that always scare you, you know, like you said, your grandmother scared you. You know, scare you about. I used to have be scared to go to the goodwill because they say dead people clothes in there and sometimes they come back at nighttime.

[18:00] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Now, I heard that when I was.

[18:02] WENDY GORDON: A kid and they be wearing them.

[18:04] LORETTA WASHINGTON: I heard that. Or they died with that particular dress, gown or whatever, and they want their dress.

[18:11] WENDY GORDON: I mean, you know, that brings back.

[18:14] LORETTA WASHINGTON: The memory some of the things that our parents and grandparents used to tell us to keep us out of trouble or keep us honest, I should say. And you sit back now and you think about those tall tales that they told us, and you say, how can a child believe that? And then you remember that your kids did the same thing, and they believed it, too. So it works.

[18:35] WENDY GORDON: Yeah, it works. Well, they got so many new parenting rules about this and that, and don't whoop. Don't whoop, whoop. Whatever. Don't do this. You know, to me, the kids today are less. They timid, more timid than we were because, I mean, we had to walk to school. We had to do, you know, they don't. I'm not catching them bus, you know, that's my granddaughter. Oh, that's what your mother told you. You know, and you, 15 years old, never caught the bus. Never. You know, but, you know, I know it is a different world.

[19:10] LORETTA WASHINGTON: It is.

[19:11] WENDY GORDON: I know it is a different world, but I think that some things, I think that kids should go. Children should go through.

[19:19] LORETTA WASHINGTON: They should experience.

[19:20] WENDY GORDON: I agree that you do experience. Maybe not necessarily all the scary stories and all that, but I think they should to help them grow.

[19:30] LORETTA WASHINGTON: But when you look back, we looked at how we were raised, and then you look at how we raised our kids, and then now we look at how our kids are raising their kids. It was all in an effort to. I think our intentions were to make life better and easier for them. But in the process, we lost a whole lot of the things who made us who we are and who made our kids who they are. So. But. And I don't know how we can change that. And I think it's just a sign of the times.

[20:10] WENDY GORDON: Yeah. And that's just, I guess, being the mother bear, or whatever you want to call it, trying to prevent your kids.

[20:16] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Right.

[20:18] WENDY GORDON: Like, I went to the school out of my district, and I lived in the Pruitt I go project. So, you know, 06:00 in the morning, sometimes it would be dark, right. And I would have to walk through all the building I lived on, Biddle, and I would have to walk to Cass, and that's like, six or seven blocks over just to catch the bus. And I would run, you know, to it, and then I'll come home and go in the dark. And come home in the dark. And I couldn't really be in any after school activities because it took me so long. What happened is my father lived in that district, and he was a Pullman porter. So the. So the week that he was in, he was six. He worked six days in Missouri and six days out. And the day that he was in, I would stay with him. So, you know, so, like, one week I would stay with him, and the rest we could on and off. So it wasn't so bad, you know. But, you know, during the winter months, you know, 06:00 you know, it's dark. It's dark there. And he lived where he lived. It wasn't far, but I still. I would have to walk from his house, you know, from St. Louis Avenue to Sumner, which is.

[21:38] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, okay.

[21:39] WENDY GORDON: Well, you know, it wasn't.

[21:40] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Your walk was short.

[21:42] WENDY GORDON: It was short, but I had to walk.

[21:44] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Even in the city in grade school, I remember walking almost a mile. We lived on, Sarah and I went to school on Newstead, so that's almost a mile.

[21:52] WENDY GORDON: Well, I went to Michelle in the.

[21:54] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Morning, walked home for lunch. We had an hour for lunche, ate a sandwich real quick, and walked back to school. So four times a day, I walked that in all kinds of weather, right?

[22:06] WENDY GORDON: Yeah, that's. At first you mentioned I went to Vashon, and I lived in projects, so we walked from Vashon, but it wasn't so bad then because we had. It was a lot of us walking, right. And see, there it was just me going to that bus. I was, you know, I did it alone. That's what I was trying to make reference to. And I did.

[22:24] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Well, I did it by myself because when I went there, my friend across the street, my best friend, we went to the same school. And the next year, they divided the school list, school districts, and Sarah was the dividing line. So she continued at the school we were going to, which was Riddick elementary, and I was transferred to Marshall elementary. So. And then we just saw each other in the morning sometime and waved. And most times I didn't see her because I had such a long ways to walk that I left before she did. But anyway, moving right along here. Okay. I think we kind of covered some of your favorite memories in that, so I don't think we'll go any further with that one. So I have another good question for you, though. Are there any funny stories, memories, or characters from your life that you want to share a little bit about with us today?

[23:17] WENDY GORDON: Okay, now one funny story. It's funny now, but it wasn't funny then.

[23:23] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay.

[23:25] WENDY GORDON: Well, I used to call myself a dancer, and I used to do the moderate, you know, the modern street dancer, the monkey jerk twist, whatever. And we used to always call ourselves having these battles, you know, we'll get up, everybody dance. And most of the time, I won but this lady. And they said, oh, wendy, good. You can get her. You can burn her. That was the exact name of. You can burn her. You can burn her. That's what we used to call it. And so we got up, you know, on the stage, which was in the recreation building, and we got up on stage and they played a song, and, you know, we was dancing. And then I noticed she was doing. She wasn't doing this dance as I was doing. She was doing more twisting and, you know, gyrating, you know. And then I like, okay, I'm doing, you know, it was a disaster, needless to say, that, you know, and, you know, people start clapping for her. Boy, they clap. I try to get them clapping me, you know, I'm trying to, you know. But the. The lesson I learned. Stay in your lane, you know?

[24:39] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay.

[24:40] WENDY GORDON: Do what you know how to do. Don't try to emulate someone else, you.

[24:46] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Know, and be yourself.

[24:48] WENDY GORDON: Be yourself. Yeah. Do you? Because I say that's a battle that you will not win.

[24:55] LORETTA WASHINGTON: You know, that's the truth.

[24:56] WENDY GORDON: Don't change course in the middle of stream. If that's what you do, you stick to what you do. So that never happened again. So when I do. When I got up there to the little contest, I would do my.

[25:14] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Exactly. And, you know, that's important to be yourself. Cause when I do workshops, I get asked that question all the time. Because you can look at people and tell. They want to do their stories like I do my. Tell their stories like I tell my stories, like, you can't be me. I don't want you to be me. I want you to be you. I say, if you be you, you'll be better at what you do.

[25:36] WENDY GORDON: That's right.

[25:36] LORETTA WASHINGTON: But you are not going to achieve what you want trying to be me or anybody else. So. I understand that, but that was a good lesson. That's a life lesson.

[25:45] WENDY GORDON: That's a life lesson by the day. You notice, you know, like, people be up there singing. They do now. You know, I don't do that because I stay in my lane, you know, I know that I cannot be Aretha or Whitney. I don't do that, you know, so, you know, I do that, you know.

[26:05] LORETTA WASHINGTON: But you have a. You have a rich, deep voice when you sing, and I love it. So just continue to be you. That's. And she. You carry a big crowd with you everywhere you go. All you got to do is put the word out, and people will make calls and say, oh, Wendy's gonna be singing, doing the program you know, gig at such and such a place I'm going to go or you want to go, and every time I went, you, the place is crowded, wherever you're at. And I think sometime when you go the first time to a certain, any place, they don't expect that kind of crowd to follow you, but you carry a large crowd, so the word is out there, and people know who you are and you have a good following and a strong following. I've seen faces there that I see over and over again because people continue to follow you. They love what you do, so continue to do what you do. So what are some of the, well, that kind of covers to some of the things that you are proud of doing, proudest of doing, also. So we kind of covered that in there. So just all I can say is keep up the good work and you're doing a beautiful job at what you do, being 70. What? 373.

[27:13] WENDY GORDON: 73. And young. Ten months young.

[27:18] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay, almost there. Okay. Well, I'm glad you can still use that because at 78, and I'm closer to 79 than 78, and after that, it's the big 80, so I don't know. It's kind of hard to believe I'll soon be 80 years old. Oh, my goodness. 80 years old, and I'm still here.

[27:41] WENDY GORDON: Yeah.

[27:42] LORETTA WASHINGTON: And that's when I sit up and look up and say, thank you, lord, I can't help but do it. So you can go and I'll let you do that, and I'll just be.

[27:51] WENDY GORDON: Quiet and good health.

[27:53] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Yes. Uh huh. That's right. Uh huh. When I'm going to do, like a complete opposite. When in life have you felt the most alone?

[28:04] WENDY GORDON: When my kids went away to school.

[28:06] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, okay.

[28:07] WENDY GORDON: I felt almost alone and the most vulnerable. You know why? It had the thing called the VCR and the electric went out, so it started blinking. Well, it blinked till my kids came back home. Came back home from, you know, a break. Yeah. Yeah. And. But I did miss them. You know, I used to always be glad when my kids leave, you know, but I missed them, you know, I miss. But it was, it was, and when they came home, I wanted them to leave quickly, but when they left, I wanted them, you know, that's what always, you know, because they, habits changed.

[28:52] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, yes, they do.

[28:53] WENDY GORDON: You know, they definitely staying up on the phone, ring my son, ring, ring, ring. You know, that's before they had cell phones and all that private thing. So I think that's when I felt the most. What about you?

[29:07] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, I don't know. I'm trying to think. I've had some dark times. I don't really know and I don't know if I really want to go into it. It would take too much time to go into them now, but I've had a few. I've had some valleys in my life, but I've also had some mountaintops too, where I've been up. So I'll just leave it. Kind of leave it at that. Has your life been different from what you imagined it to be when you were younger?

[29:42] WENDY GORDON: Oh, but surely I would never thought that I would be acting, you know, I never thought that because I had a problem reading and not reading to understand, but reading out loud in front of people. When I was. I used to go. Most summers I used to go stay in Chicago with my aunt. She didn't have any girls, she had boys and she would go to church. And when I say every day, I meant every day.

[30:19] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay.

[30:19] WENDY GORDON: And they had little programs she wanted you to be on. Oh, Wendy, you can do it. I can see. You know you can do. She made me get up there and I told her, I don't want to do it. I don't want to, you know, I think I will about. I may have been like nine ish, something like that. And I told. And she actually made me get up there. Cause I would rehearse stuff at home and I had it down and I actually, I told her that I didn't want to. I fainted.

[30:49] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, okay. I passed for real fainted or you faked the faint? You were scared, you know, blocked out for real. Oh my goodness. Blacked out.

[30:57] WENDY GORDON: Yes, I was scared that I was. And then it was a long time. And then I associated that with reading out loud. Not reading period, but reading out loud for. So it was a while. That's why I never read my poems that I wrote out loud until 10th grade and stuff. So that was traumatic. I never thought that I would act. So when I retired, I enrolled in a senior acting class and the rest.

[31:36] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Is kind of history.

[31:39] WENDY GORDON: But I still have a problem not co reading. Could be going around in my head how to, you know, how I'm going to do the character and all that.

[31:49] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Is there anything going on in your head? Like a. How you would like to be remembered?

[31:56] WENDY GORDON: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[31:59] LORETTA WASHINGTON: And I know that's a whole book, so just.

[32:01] WENDY GORDON: Yeah, I'll keep it short.

[32:03] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Thank you.

[32:04] WENDY GORDON: Okay. I would like to be remembered as someone who loves to give back. My husband and I had a scholarship fund where we have given quite a bit of money to a Sumner high school student. That's wonderful. That is in the arts or planet to be in the arts.

[32:32] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay. Wonderful. It's beautiful.

[32:34] WENDY GORDON: I believe that. I don't want, it was so many times that I've seen people take knowledge with them and not share it. How can we expect, expect for our children to be a better, if we don't share the knowledge that we have.

[32:57] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Exactly.

[32:58] WENDY GORDON: You know, so that's how I like to be remembered as giving back and preparing the next generation for the future and for, and to train them to pass it forward.

[33:12] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay. You kind of answered my next question and that was, what does the future hold? I think you've kind of answered that as you telling me what it holds for you. So what are your hopes for your children?

[33:24] WENDY GORDON: Well, I hope that they would live out their dreams. Live out their dreams and do what they think, remember some of the things that I've taught them, you know what I mean? And be able to. Not to worry about the world. The world has so much going on around in it. I just don't, you know, just want to, I know it's, they can't be carefree and, you know, don't worry about anything, you know, because, you know, you got to, you know, but I want them to be able to live out their dreams. That's, that's, that's the best way I can summon up.

[34:07] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Oh, okay. Okay. I was going to ask you this, but I think you just kind of answered it for me about if future generations were listening to this recording, was there any wisdom you would like to pass on to them? And I think you just did that for me, so I don't really have to ask you that question. So I think I'm going to close by asking you, if you could talk to a younger version of yourself, what would you say?

[34:36] WENDY GORDON: Be patient. What's for you? You're gonna get don't give up on your dreams. And you're never too old to learn.

[34:48] LORETTA WASHINGTON: That is so true.

[34:49] WENDY GORDON: Yeah.

[34:50] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Truly, words of wisdom, you're never too old to learn. Take it from someone who thought she was ready to retire. And here we are today. But that was beautiful. That's a beautiful answer.

[35:03] WENDY GORDON: Thank you.

[35:04] LORETTA WASHINGTON: And on that note, I'm gonna say thank you, Wendy, for allowing me to interview you. And I've enjoyed it, and I thought I knew a lot about you, but I learned a lot more today.

[35:15] WENDY GORDON: Okay, Loretta.

[35:18] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay, Wendy.

[35:19] WENDY GORDON: Loretta, thank you so much for being an interviewer.

[35:26] LORETTA WASHINGTON: Okay. Okay. Thank you. And you have a great afternoon.

[35:31] WENDY GORDON: You do. Same thank you.