William McCarthy and Harold Smith

00:04 I'm Bill McCarthy. I'm 59 years of age. Today is Wednesday, May 19th, 2021. I'm located in Baltimore, Maryland, and I'm here for a conversation with Hal Smith, how and I spend much of our lives in Baltimore together? How was my predecessor at Catholic Charities of Archdiocese of Baltimore, and it's a legend here in our community.

00:34 Well, thanks Bill and Nacho's hear about the Legend part. But my name is Hanna Smith. And I am 79 years of age. Do it. 20 years older than the new bill and starting to feel a little more like that. 79 is the years go by and it is the 19th. I'm in Florida. Now retired. Now, about 10 years from Catholic Charities and I came to Charities from the great state of Maine and spent 35 years in Baltimore, and who's just a fabulous experience, for me and boats with the people, and with the perfectly with the agency and seeing it grow and change over those thirty-five years. So, it was an enormous amount of change and I'm sure

01:34 You have seen a similar a change process in the time that you've been there my whole life. And I remember as a young, much younger person in a in a previous career. I watching some of the changes that have taken place in Baltimore in the role that you and Catholic Charities have had an improving lives of our neighbors and making our community stronger. As reflecting recently about Freddie gray who died in 2015 near gilmor homes, you know, the right behind Saint. Gregory the Great Parish in the custody of the police commission, and I remember going to that site and going to st. Peter Claver Parish on on Fremont in Pennsylvania that very next day.

02:34 And it reminded me of 1968 because I remember my dad, taking me to West Baltimore that part of West Baltimore. We lived in Westport after the unrest and Riots of 1968. And I remark that was one thing that hadn't changed. I we've had disinvestment some communities and we really had a lot of work to do to bring about further changes as well.

03:05 And how I was just thinking 2 weeks from today, is the 40th anniversary of the opening of Our Daily Bread in Baltimore at its original location. And I was thinking about, it was also, 1981 was one of these years where not only did you open the most amazing program that said, our neighbors who are hungry and ultimately developed a residential component case, management component and Workforce Development component, but we opened our first support a senior housing community as well. And I was thinking if 40 40 years ago to have all of that happening at one time. You know, what what do you talk about? What Goddess to that point from your arrival, for me? I guess a handful years before that and at that point,

04:03 Well, it was a real journey earning process and it really started with a snowstorm. We had it was in the late 70s, and at the time, the

04:27 The sisters Who provided the meals for the priests who were living at the Basilica, rectory would make sandwiches for the homeless people, every every day and we had this enormous snowstorm. I, I, I must have well over 2 ft and the city was just locked down.

04:55 And but there was still about a hundred a hundred and twenty people who lined up for those sandwiches that the sisters made and they're standing in Hip deep snow waiting for the sandwiches and we knew that that that's all those folks were going to get to eat that day.

05:17 And we basically said that, you know, there's got to be a better way. I mean, we had, we can't do this. We can't allow this to go on. And from that experience, Our Daily Bread was was born and it was a

05:37 Hello. Host of great experience there. Good learning experience is one kind of 6 in my mind, which I'm sure you will appreciate bill. I was serving the meal at our daily bread when we were in the old rowhouse. They are. Which this was the first sight. It was could only see it about 40, people kitchen. Everything was all chocobloc full in there. So you had to kind of wind your way through the tables, in order to deliver the food to the people who were seated and everybody came in. And if they had a backpack or whatever, they would just put it down at by the chair, what, you know, where they, where they sat.

06:24 So I'm serving a meal and you know, you have this a lot of preconceived views about all the people and trying to learn what it is that they wanted in life and how they ended up there at the soup kitchen and I looked down and this guy's got his backpack out and sticking out of the back of the backpack. Is this paperback book? And the title of the book was you can make $1000000 in real estate and I'm think it's that I got to tell you that was not the book. I expected the guy to have but it goes to show you that everybody has dreams and everybody wants something better for themselves.

07:18 Sometimes, I don't even know what it is, but I always felt that our daily bread was there for everybody to serve them wherever they wear on their own personal Journey?

07:31 Thank you for sharing that. That's a great story and reminds me of an experience. I had serving in our daily bread in 2009. And that was the year. I where we had. We called snowmageddon it. We had two feet of snow every Wednesday for 3 weeks this encounter with this man James. So at that time our volunteers obviously couldn't come and the Christopher place, man. We're helping with the meal. We had a couple of neighbors that came in and helped us serve lunch.

08:13 And I remember that, but every day, it would change a little bit. And except there was just one man James that came every day. And finally, I am Wednesday, I said to James,

08:27 Where do you live? Because I go down the street.

08:32 Now, to remind you, you know, where on the Falls Way, and we're surrounded by prisons. There is in a house near us and I'm like,

08:43 We're down the street. You live James? Any girls. I live in the shelter on Guilford.

08:50 Any girls, you've all fed me for Days. Every time. I needed a meal and I thought I could come help. You feed others and a profound encounter. I said how

09:06 You know out of touch. I was of course, we all have something to offer and James was offering his kindness his hospitality and his ability to engage people to help us out a time where we really didn't need his help. And that's never left me that touchy. I come to earn income from Philadelphia. Got stuck in Baltimore and that's how we ended up with us, and I never saw him after that. After we got through that, there was snow storms and I look for, but I reminded me that we all have something to offer and that was the most to me, that encounter, you know, still sticks with me today.

09:49 I was also thinking about, you know, all the obstacles that we had over the years from snow storms. The gas explosions to all sorts of the pandemic and how it is in 2 weeks. Working to celebrate, 40 days of never missing a meal to feed the hungry, our neighbors who were hungry, and all the efforts in all the stores. And all the times that that's three could be broke, could have been broken in, and it's nearly 14,000 dates. Let you know when we do meal counts and it's like 8 million meals.

10:34 And it's, it's it's a true story of the Loaves and Fishes to and it's, it's the, the commonness of our humanity and it seeing their Humanity in each other and I know how you had to skip there and it still hangs. There is my favorite thing. It's, it's Jesus in the bread line and it reminds us that everybody that comes to our door, you know, it's a child of God and as Divine with it, so I wish that I was just thinking these extraordinary it is when I look back over the 35 years. That I spent there that the most endearing

11:24 Images that I have in my mind is it's a collective image of the, the people who do the work. And I always felt so privileged to be able to work with these people who were so dedicated. And so confident, you know, you hear the stories? People say why people are in a good orders, they couldn't get a job somewhere else or or whatever and you and I both know that, that is absolutely not true. That these are very confident, talented people, most of them could do, you know anything in life, but they chose to do this and just

12:17 Really, really good at it then.

12:20 In helping people change their life. Nobody wants to change. I mean, chained at everybody no matter who you are. Changes difficult, you know, we like doing the same thing all the time even when it's self-destructive and it's it's that's why it's so hard to get in to change. So when you, when you meet someone who is able to help you facilitate that change in your life. It's an unbelievable experience. It really is. It's a, it's a, it's an uncommon person who is able to enter into your life and help you through that process, to become the person that you wanted to be and Catholic Charities.

13:11 Is just so blessed with such great people and over the 2,000 plus employees. Yeah, 200 location. So, you know, when you think about it, I mean it's a to have that kind of Karma and Charisma to the translate to all those people in all of those disparate locations is, it's just amazing. It really is.

13:43 Yeah, I'm glad you brought up our colleagues and you're exactly right. I'm humbled by their dedication and commitment as well. Like, I think a lot of times we just focus on the technical aspects of the job, or the work, or the ministry. And what our colleagues bring is not a way that incredible technical competence, but it's the why, and how we go about the work that makes like an encounter at one of our programs across the state different than other programs and that's what that's what's different about it. But that's what's so humbling, good also, so enriching and inspiring to see and it doesn't matter how many of our colleagues you do. They carry a lot themselves and yet the person they were in front of the person they've engaged,

14:43 Person their accompanying is the most important thing at that time. And I just, I think that's, that's part of what I call the secret sauce of our ministry, that makes it so meaningful. And really part of this movement. I called the Catholic Charities movement throughout our community. So I'm just changing gears a little bit. We talked about one program, our daily bread and then our occasions. The other thing would I would love to talk about is the different things we do and how we engage volunteer, you know, we couldn't do what we do. Without our volunteers 10,000 unduplicated, volunteers a year. And I said the bike when I was talking to volunteers about is whatever you have an interest in

15:38 I'm sure we do, you know, whether it's working with children in in Head, Start, or working with our new neighbors in the Immigrant Community, or housing for older marylanders, or if people, with intellectual disabilities that have this, all sending joy to themselves, are people our neighbors that are just, you know, challenge, you know, by the Tasca today. But so the sales pitches give me the open question. What are you interested in? And then how can you help us do that?

16:17 So that's how I have an amazing day. That's why it's a movement. It's, our colleagues are donors are volunteers. I think really distinguishes. Catholic Charities, especially in Baltimore. But also, it's also across the country is the threefold mission that we have. That it isn't simply direct service. I know, you know, people know us, I think because we are involved and somebody's hungry and in a we get involved to help feed them or they are need a job and employment in you know, we facilitate bad or it's a nursing home bed or whatever it is. It's very Hands-On and people

17:13 See us for that. But one below the surface people don't really realize. That we're also very involved in trying to deal with the causes, the breath of people to us for the direct service in the first place. And that means getting involved at the primarily at the state legislature, and lobbying for social change that will bring about hopefully, some sort of a better life for the people that we serve. So that we're not necessarily just giving them a sandwich, but they are able to be employed and to feed themselves.

17:50 The third part of that is what you touch on Bill on that stuff. Took the volunteers part of it is critically important for us to have the people of Maryland sensitive to what the problems are. And you can't be aware of the problems any better than serving a meal at our daily bread or getting involved in Christopher place and all those volunteers. And I mean, when I was there we had

18:21 35 volunteers every day just to just to serve the meal. Will those 35? People got an understanding of poverty that they never would have had in any other way. And getting that understanding of poverty, then allow them to get plugged in to the legislative process and start dealing with the causes. So the linking of the direct service and the education and the the legislative change those three elements, I think have made Charities is an incredibly different Social Service organization.

18:57 Yeah, I think you bring up an excellent point, you know, our end game or our vision isn't to Simply provide that that meal or provide shelter that night. What we want to do is to really be advocates for and bring her about both institutional and systemic, change my back for frankly, one day. We'll put that programmer service out of business and our our needs and as the needs of the community change because we can affect it at a structural and institutional and a policy level, you know allows us to go to the next, the next thing or the emerging need or challenge that.

19:44 And I think, you know, Catholic Charities has been in Annapolis, even before I think it really started with wood when you joined the agency as well. Where we bought those Collective voice spoke. Our volunteers are donuts in our clients, in a legislator want to hear from people most impact in it affected by the barrier challenge or structure or system that they're facing. So get it. That's part of that. What I call the secret of Catholic Charities that is. And then the other eye thing, I think about is our expansion of programs in areas that try to help you. Want some of the challenges and hardships in Journeys. People are facing by being proactive, with remedies and solutions and programs that mitigate

20:44 Some people aren't you? Don't caught in that rabbit-hole or that circular cycle of, you know, frustration and Devastation. Well, one of the the process of educating Volunteers in helping people understand what it is that you. And I see on a daily basis is complicated and it's hard to read but you don't really mean you visually see the people but you're not in their lives in the same way that you were in with James. Let's say, I mean, that's a different. I mean, you are at a deeper level. The one of the things that I used to try to do to educate board members, was to bring them to individual programs, and they have the, the individuals who was served by the program talk about

21:44 How they got there and what their life was like. We had a program that was tied to one of our Head Start centers and the program was set up for women who had lost custody of the children because of child abuse.

22:05 And almost all the women that had been involved with males who were not good choices. Let's put it that way. And they got themselves into situations where they had lost custody of the child and they wanted to get that custody back.

22:29 So, but they were in the court system. In the court, gave them a choice. They could either go to prison or they could come to this program and we had about 10 women that were in the program.

22:42 And I remember one day especially I hadn't had about six board members, and we got the women together in a circle to talk about their lies. And then, and it's a second circle of the board members around them. So the board members weren't participating, but they were observing and listening to what the women talked about in their lives. And they all talked about how they got to where they were. And I asked, I asked the group number of questions, but one of them, one question, I asked was, what, what is different in your life now, in your relationship with men? That is different. Now, as a result of this program,

23:31 And they thought for a minute and one of the women, very I thought very insightful. She said, you know, she said, you know, what's different? Now. She said I make me happy.

23:49 She said, I don't need a man to make me happy just to be happy with one, but I don't need a man to make me happy and getting that getting her to that stage. When you talk about the, the the staff people and their building self-esteem and helping people come to that point in their life, when they can actually feel good about themselves. Even though, I know they've had these horrible things happen to them over the course of their life. I mean that's a really rare gift and that woman eventually moved on got her child back and you know, I feel like that's the kind of thing that the Catholic Charities Dallas.

24:34 That's it. If that's a wonderful encounter in a wonderful story about what that nugget is in there. I think about is those encounters and those nuggets and that accompaniment happened Styles and sometimes every day across the agency, and it's just so very profound. How was, you know, we often hire in our programs of people that you don't have gone through our program. And part of it is, it's part of our commitment to giving people opportunities, but also they bring an inside and that credibility, that allows us to accompany and bring other people off.

25:24 And it was just one called week. I remember who I got through. Christopher place. He had been away for more than a decade and haven't done anything. Harmful things. And I remember, so we we have him working at our are sick with the shelter. We operate across from our daily bread.

25:48 And one day, I got a note from him and email and email said, thank you for loving me until I was able to love myself one a while and I just, wow, that's it. That's what it's all about. Yeah, it really is. Yeah.

26:18 Well, I had kind of a unique experience in that cuz I started in in social work in Maine.

26:29 In the late sixties, so I'm kind of looking at this progression over, not just a 35 years, but basically, over 45 years.

26:42 And I got to tell you Bill. I mean, it's just unbelievable. And I'll share another story with you. I started off. I was just out of school. I haven't gone to the got my Master's Degree at. I was still just a bachelor's degree and I started off at the Catholic Charities agency in Portland.

27:08 And the director there.

27:12 Gave me one of my first assignments was to go to. It was an orphanage for young girls that was in the Portland area that Will was starting. Why don't you go up and talk to the the superior of the other sister? Who was the superior, the community and see if there's anything, you know, we can do to help. So I said fine I got you know, and I mean green doesn't begin to describe in a my and my knowledge at the time. But anyway, I go up there and the building is if if you've ever seen The Blues Brothers with the, you know, when they they they go back to meet at the end of the the sister who taught them in school. The building was exactly like that. There wasn't a carpet in the place and it's like 15 foot ceilings. I mean, this was real.

28:12 More contrast to The Blues Brothers. The sister was wonderful. She is. Was terrific. She was very helpful and we sat down and they have about another 20, either young girls or young. Women are between the ages of 6 and 18 and they just took people in.

28:37 And so I asked her about.

28:40 What was the background on some of the girls?

28:45 So she reaches in her desk and she pulls out a metal 3 by 5 file card holder and on each card. She had all the information about each girl that was in the place. This was the filing system.

29:07 Okay. Fast forward to 25 years later at Catholic Charities. We are destroying Forest of trees for a child in foster care. And I mean, the amount of paper that gets generated. I mean, nothing happens without an enormous amount of documentation, and I've always thought this that three-by-five card box, the sister she knew everybody called, but it was let's just say we've come a long way from where we were before, hopefully better, but who knows? It has sister probably had the most essential. An important facts about that child beyond beyond the name, but what do you know, different? Thanks. Yeah. It's fantastic.

29:59 Yeah, I think sometimes we learn that keeping it simple is is is a lot easier and a lot better and more effective frankly than being becoming quote more sophisticated in terms of theory, change and process. Yeah. I'll tell you a funny story about that and you'll appreciate this from our human resource department.

30:31 So after Freddie gray, we I went to the at the Head, Start Head Start site on Dukeland Street and their 50 children in that site.

30:45 And the site director told me seven of these children lost a father or grandfather to gun violence that school year.

30:56 And how that sticks with me to this day, the trauma of gun violence in Baltimore and any other other cities. And I reflected on, that's the 21217. ZIP code. We provide plenty of service, you know, housing employment food on. I'm saying, you know, early childhood I said if we don't do something or a part of a community Solution on gun violence,

31:26 Then everything else we're doing is meeting because every child in that our site was traumatized, whether it was their father grandfather, their neighbor, they've experienced this. Trauma that many of us have never experienced. So we decided we were going to open a safe Street site and sandtown-winchester. It's based on the model of an epidemiologist in Chicago, a program culture of violence. And basically what you do when you hire credible Messengers, returning citizens ex-offenders, former gun gang members to mediate disputes that to try to both stop or prevent a shooting from taking place and also preventing retaliation for that, you know, a shooting that has

32:26 Chicken place I remember. So I remember talking to the board yet. We're going to hire these. People are neighbors that have this experience and a street credibility that people would actually listen to. So you would have thought you can picture the board and I can absolutely picture. Yeah. Sucking on women's. So to speeder like have you lost your mind but we were we were committed to it. So the way we hired or our team there, that's that stole their 10 College summer violence, interrupter summer community. Outreach workers and a director is we had a hiring panel and it was members of the community.

33:13 At Weis are Catholic Charities. Human resource department. It was the Baltimore City Health Department. They had some expertise in running these programs and we decided you know, who we were going to wish we were hiring. And I remember walking around Santana. We went to Penn North which was a program for people with substance. Use this guy. I didn't know you could do this Shadow was there and Shadow was a retired, gang member who would located to Baltimore from Florida. And he says, he owes. Mr. McCarthy. I have your job description for the site, director for say Street, and he goes, I don't need a college degree to tell you how to stop people from shooting one.

34:13 Says or similar experience it goes. I have the similar experience and every reminded me, you know, we can, we have to poke fun. And ourselves. We're so order way in certain things like our job descriptions. That this guy, you know, so comfortable and willing to call us, go call me on it. And, but that was like a great lesson to me that I don't, you know, I got to pay more attention of what messaging were saying, as we're trying to recruit people to work with us and be part of our community. And so that program had an amazing success, you know, historically to program you would have you would see the incidence of gun violence reduced by about 60% in other places in Chicago, for example, and button gun homicides, you know, reduced by a significant amount as well.

35:12 Walking a tennis community at one time, there would be a, a shooting in a killing a week. And our first year, there were three, unfortunately, three conduct. And then the phone, when year, we went 300 days without

35:31 Play Death by Gus do. Then, of course, the board. How was saying we should do this in every neighborhood in Baltimore. But we do have another one in in in Brooklyn now, but my point is the point is if they're very it's a very human thing. It's that Encounter of a person that, you know, is able to understand and empathize and be with somebody. But also to make them apart, take a pause and that decision to do what they would likely to do. And I am something. Is he a a remark on is that will respond to Denise, and that was in need. I, of course, I read about in the paper where you can't help about gun, violence in the city, but I always use it as a law enforcement problem. And then, and then when I had the encounter at our Head Start site, and we looked into it, I said, well,

36:31 Yeah, well on forcement will respond. Once the ACT happens. We have to be in the business of helping communities heal and preventing for preventing it from happening happening in the first text. That was just an example of making a little fun of my self. Yeah, you need a college degree to be a by, when it's interrupter. Yeah, but the agency is always been doing things like that. Being being out front, trying to be proactive, trying to find assault Community problems. They're complicated. I really always felt that as a country. We

37:17 We would commit enormous amounts of resources and with great confidence, that we were going to solve technical problems, like putting on a man on the moon or the space program that for example, in a and every time we met failure, we inner we felt what we've learned something along the way to here. And so we're going to get better at it. So I kind of stick-to-itiveness works terrific on technical issues. But as a country, we seem unwilling to apply the same rationale to helping people solve social problems. It's like will if you don't get it right the first time, then we're not going to spend another dime on this. The fact that maybe we actually learn something and we get better at it. You know, the next time around

38:16 That as a country where reluctant to do that and instead went up in many cases, trying to punish the people who are should be, we should be helping. So I always felt the Charity's was a rant against the grain on that that we really invested ourselves. The financially, our personal capital, and our human resource capital in trying to help people change their life and we would try a wide variety of approaches. Some some work, you know, the shopping center getting involved in retail trying to make retail work and low-income neighborhood. Send me Napa. It's a complicated difficult issue, but nobody else is really taking now on and as a nonprofit and for-profit that the money isn't there for people to

39:16 Have incentive to do it. So I really feel like where we have done, some great work at Charity's. It is, it is for Catholic Charities, it in braces, everyone, and, and also Embraces a wide variety of problem-solving techniques. And I was thinking, and I think I shared with you to the Cherry Hill Town Center is thriving today. You know, we've, we've had a a journey with it and we've learned a lot, but it's, it's an asset of the community, the community owns it today and your people puzzle are puzzled. When I say they say, will you do you operate that you own that is Florida Community Development and being engaged in communities. You've done a great job. And you know, I I hope we follow it up.

40:16 After your departure, it's only 40. 50 years of between the two of us. It's amazing. But being a data-informed agency and its rise. The team Nutz when I'm looking for bad outcomes. I'm not really looking for bed. I'll come spray. I find if things don't go as designed. We focus a lot more trying to understand why that is and that allows us to get better and we weren't so much and and that's a really fantastic. I bought when we do things well, or they go. Well, the first time then we just think while we just nailed it and we're, we're really good team. So I said, yeah. I see the green score of the Green scorecard. Let me see some red just so we can get better. But thank you.

41:14 I've really enjoyed this conversation.

41:19 Now, I think, I guess where we're at a 40-minute Marquis or? Yeah, so I think we should be able to do another one at some point and in being able to I enjoy these conversations and I would suggest. I'm just so grateful how that we're able to have this time. I'm grateful for really your your your leadership and the fingerprints and Footprints and impact you've had on the city that I love so much and other than saying, my journey here was a lot different than yours. You were at least a social worker. I'm a tax lawyer in a banker Shuffle, Baltimore.

42:19 Moves in a very effective ways not necessarily in ways that we would pick ourselves, but but the spirit always works and, you know, you can say it over the course of time in the agency. So it's a blessing blessing, indeed. Thank you. Thank you.