William Munroe and Sue Givins

Recorded February 23, 2020 Archived February 25, 2020 46:20 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: lsk002309


William Monroe and new friend Sue Givins discuss their parenting, getting their first walkers and their experiences at Heritage House.


  • William Munroe
  • Sue Givins

Venue / Recording Kit


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00:04 My name is Sue Givens. I'm age 64 today's date is February 23rd, 2020 the location Seattle Washington and the relationship to my story partner. Where is friendship?

00:21 My name is William Monroe and I'm 88-82. And today's date is to 2320 and Willow King location is Seattle Washington and the relationship to partner is really complimentary. She's a friend.

00:49 War war I always had them I was in the Army. I was drafted and I had an interesting career in the army war always bothered me because number one I didn't want to hurt anybody and number two. I was Macho enough that I would do good, you know an answer and I was able to have a certain amount of objectivity watching the training. You know, she like I was outside of myself watching and they are quite brilliant. They take all these different people and they miss them they train them and they create a unified instrument and we can get finite and and pissy about what's going on. But when you look at it, they have turned out an army.

01:45 And they turned out confident people and into an I can't even imagine today's Army the technical requirements compared to when I was in the Army because they had just made the transition from the weapons. They M12 the M23 and so now today's weapons are much more complex and much more challenging and there's a whole sense of communication, which is much more challenging because we we had tell if the world ends this to effectively training people and it makes me sad because you wish that we could take the training and apply it to the benevolent things like teaching and education and medicine and and helping people but we are unfortunately taking it and

02:45 Get applying it to hurting and the thing this saddens me is that the Army becomes an effective.

02:56 Pressure to bite by people who perhaps or not his humanitarian as they could be and so what they using it they using it as a threat and as a force against Universal so people will think twice before they do negative things because the American Army is a force to be reckoned with don't you think that the way that they do that it's kind of weird and that if we will come to just destroy, you know Village your house your people you're everything as opposed to will come get the bad guys.

03:33 Turn off the stuff that bothers me a lot because that's very true. You write and instead of instead of purging the negatives. We now Purge did the people who have caused the problem. We don't Purge. The reason the problem happened why these people are able to do the things they do and one of the things that breaks my heart is when you read about a mistake and killing and then they say we're going to pay everybody who's lost somebody $1,000. Yeah, they going to pay a $5 makeup.

04:21 I'm so lucky to be.

04:30 That that that would not have crossed my mind and I totally and enthusiastically agree. You're right good it breaks my heart when I look at they what they say.

04:45 Nnnn, unfortunately, I I thought about staying in the service because I I liked it and says, you know taking resources that we could be using to make a better world and we're using them to destroy and and the lawn mower supply that we don't rebuild.

05:13 Oh, yeah prices incredible and we're with threatening people will will drop off a lot of bombs on you. If you don't do what we want and I'm saying why can't we need to take that money and use it in the positive way and it's in I have the problem of liking the action but not liking the consequences you think about here. It's like I'm on Manley.

05:42 Kids working in women

06:01 What will you know? You said something just blew me away was when you talked about some of the professions you got involved in and they weren't about I want The Prestige of yeah, that was what always impressed me with some of the salaries at Manhattan or no woman can do this. Yep. You have to be a man and his little women cuz my mom dance for the dance company one of the women in the company was if you worked as a machinist, you know what that's cool. So it makes you realize that every social did not real. Yeah. Yeah, that's a nice words.

06:55 Your experiences with the profession different jobs. Okay, when I was a kid, I was a babysitter. I will lived in a neighborhood full of 35 kids. I babysat about half of them at started wise 10.

07:11 And went until I went I won't do it anymore. Anyways, my next job that I got after that was working in a nursing home. That was just for a month until we took off her boss came back from Boston. I wanted to make real money. So I talked to my dad about joining the ships Killers Union and it was kind of intimidating to do it first cuz you go in it's mostly guys, you know, so my guess is I'll go to the hall with you. I'll introduce you to the manager will be no problem. So I finally got a job and went on the job and there was probably on any crew. I was on maybe two or three women in like 35 men. So it's kind of interesting to do that cuz some of the guys were pretty cool with some of the guys were kind of harsh you like one of my

07:56 What year is that around?

08:00 75 maybe I'm guessing at it though. Yeah. Okay. Anyways, I'm working on it plus call Todd shipyards. It's not there anymore. Now place called Vulcan and they had a little teeny dressing room for all the women and all the men would kind of like come by and Cat calling all that stuff those interesting cuz like most of time the women who want to work with most of the time or all tall like me a lot of guys weren't that big and I actually got what he tried to sexually so this guy who was a foreman tried to sexually assault me in an engine room, but I was so mad I pushed him into an engine that was on I backed up into it. I didn't feel a thing if my finger is facing walked away. And after that I was golden.

08:54 But then the next job we went to was over at McDonald's Douglas. We're supposed to shovel out a dry dock floating ones that go down in the water or pick up a lot of months. We have to be shoveled out periodically guys didn't like that. So we're down like three or four stories down in the bowels of the dry dock and they start throwing steel bucket saddest girl.

09:23 Yeah, so we got in trouble for quitting their job, but we got back on at Todd and we were fine for the rest of the time we work there but was funny cuz it was kind of like you had to go through a baptism of fire. And then when I went to self confident and thought well, I'll just go back to the its laborers union and went there and the guy says oh no, no, we can't have women in the union hall. You can go you can be a member. If you go join the lesbian Carpenter collective in Cambridge and I was like no problem with the lesbian part, but it was like, you know, I can't just get a job, but I thought about it and I realize there are other ways I can make work. So I put it on hold at that will when we settle down in his residency. I'll take on the union move to Buffalo. I went to Union Hall on the guy said we don't have women here and what will be your first as well.

10:16 It's going to be a lot of paperwork when you have houses with a guy. What you'll have to do is donate half your salary to the union and I'm boiling you already. Give them hell, can I talk to my dad about it? Cuz I was really Furious might as well. You got to decide. Are you going to stay in Buffalo and work without Union and I was like well know maybe yours will my ex has in his residency, but no, I'm a work somewhere else. We're not saying about fo4 good as soon as well. Then you can't do it. I'm like Dad you've always told me to stick up for myself and then the next week I was watching the news and that guy's brother walked on to a job site and shot somebody in the face. So I called up there add your you don't fight with the Union lets you got a reason, you know, yeah.

11:09 Yeah, so, you know, I tried a couple more times with that but then I just gave it up cuz he started making money. So it was like I didn't have to worry about any more and we were starting to think about kids. So that was the end of that phase.

11:24 Wow, I kids in Parenthood. I ironically always like little kids even when I was in high school high school junior high school high school. I was hanging out with little kids because my school had some kids in the edit video kids. So I ended up really liking kids and then I work with handicapped children at a place called the New York from practically had to get format for formal education for some money. I ended up going to becoming an occupational therapist assistant and that was really interesting and I found it that all over the things that I had experience with children came to me and in the Union.

12:21 Big Egg existed because middle-class people didn't want to work and do that so that we got a chance to get in the union we got in we sneaked in squeeze it squeal then squeeze squeeze squeeze then and and so I became an occupational therapist assistant. I loved it because occupational therapy gives you a picture of the whole life of a person as opposed to just one small price is an occupational therapist one day we had an argument and then she looked at me and she said, you know, I am a therapist and you would just an assistant.

13:10 She was very very good. She's very bright. And so but I ended up doing that and is probably one of the best jobs. I've had gotten a degree in preschool education. And then I was working with children and I really enjoyed it. So you gave me a picture of child. And right now some of the things that I'm going through I learned from you know working as an occupational therapist. I would like compensation out now choosing to come to the growth, you know, when does a move in and then that movement grows into a bigger motor skills for the danger that I saw that they told us about and I saw was when a person stays in the compensation and they don't evolve.

14:10 Really has helped me personally in terms of my life and what I'm doing, so it is everything so damn it's together. It's really quite fascinating.

14:23 Boy

14:36 I've been really overweight. I was wondering 50 lb and I was really sore and I was unhappy and life was hell and Baba blah blah blah and I start going to physical therapist trying to get started to get my energy back and what not. And I told her I said it, you know, what's really weird, but I'm comfortable walking is the grocery store to lose weight. And so I started thinking about it and I realized why I need something to help me cuz I'm holding onto the card. So I went back to my physical therapist is choose. You don't need that. You just need to stay with the program. Nice thing about. Nope. I need it. So I went out and bought one. It was like, yeah. It's so much easier to go with us a little bit of assistance yourself around the place as a result of having the 450 down to 2:20.

15:30 Found out I have a heart problem and I had a cardiologist. He told me to never eat a vegetable again. So I've been on a walker three different times better relearn to walk three times.

15:42 And now I finally decided I'm getting a good one and it's so sturdy. I could throw it down a staircase and it still be good or you have a Cadillac. Yes, I do.

15:59 That was supposed to tie into parents somehow

16:02 You know Walker's I I was told by the physical therapist at the VA that I wasn't leading their facility without a walker and I went through a depression. I sat there for an hour in the corner of the sunny days. So I sat by myself and just brewed it a good app routing to question. What was the injury the message you had to walk with it while I'm wearing out physically very involved and dupatta. Just wearing out now. I hear that, you know, nobody told me you're up but I end up the stuff is wearing out and I can see you did the concept of economy of movement.

17:02 Skill of movement never do anything to me means everything in your body where your body less. You have a longer. Of time with your body and your health is really very very unattractive. It's really a concrete sent but we don't look at skills with the body as because we we end up believing in the tooth fairy a talk. We have an incredible Reliance on the tooth fairy and the end. He he will I say he cuz he don't like me, you know, you've comes and takes and takes and takes and face.

18:02 But you use your wisdom and your your intelligence.

18:07 Give you, give you great great great compliments because it's true. The Tooth Fairy is not the person that was described he takes and so I find I find if you don't get skills. You going to have a lower quality of life and you not number one and psychologically is going to affect you because you're not going to try things and you even the skill that you have physically is critical. I know my mom when I went to see my mom mad at her retirement home. She wanted to go into a room by herself and she had a walker and she was not allowed to do that. And I didn't know if I could live because she was weak and then that taught me a funny listen and when I came out and ended up on a walker myself, I realize how critical is like a flashback to Mom it got a few.

19:07 So much protection and help in N terms of how she taught me things that needs to end up literally working out everyday because if you don't have strength You're vulnerable and your vulnerability extends to people you don't know.

19:30 And when you told me I went he's playing with me, but you're so fit. It's ridiculous blessed with a great grade teachers. I have a more rational logical approach to Fitness than most people. I don't look at Fitness as I can lift his many pounds. I look at fitnesses how I walk in the efficient way or how I coordinate in an efficient way. How how I use my body in an efficient weight and it's it's big fun is big fun. When you suddenly see yourself doing things in a skillful way, which allows you to have pleasure and the joy of movement is intense. Yeah, and it it it it

20:24 This kills it that I got from all the people. I step study with have been such a such a benevolent thing for me you like studying Tai Chi Aikido doing martial arts doing dance all of those things. I seem so abstract now at at 82, but they're not because they all the skills of their and your reflexes in your ability to do things are all locked into it, but seems like a big part of it is this is your attitude that you don't go that's enough. I'm going in the chair and never getting up again. Yeah way to fun and you just have to give yourself time for more fun. Fun fun is important.

21:09 Nothing more to say there's a difference. There is a difference, you know, that obviously has no respect for truth. There is no respect for doing that.

21:35 Do that the might my physicality Give Me Freedom and one of my heroes is a man by name of Igor Stravinsky and he has a book called The Poetics of Music in in in in the preface or something. So early part of it. He talks about discipline is freedom.

21:57 Allowing yourself to know things really gives you permission to do things with your whole being not just your terrible aspect or not your physical but your whole being yeah hoe being a movement for give me that.

22:15 Connected to food advertising but whole being participation is very big from its really big fun and and your story about the Walkers and wanting to get the freedom of

22:32 I just want to call and then movement learn how to do that yet. But I know it's there and I met such Geniuses along the therapy tree that I know that it's it's it's something that's going to be possible. If I get the right people. Yeah, you people would want to work with you because they would look look at you is having early success with you and they don't really allow you to grow according to your capacities in your inclinations. According to what they've got in their little book of how to treat this when I was wondering 50lb somebody tried to get me to do sit ups and it was like

23:22 And how good we'll just try and my trial is this.

23:27 All I can do is listen up my head here though.

23:31 Amazes me how people get degrees and indeed. They really not degrees upskill the damn stupidity. Yeah. I I I been around a long time so bad. Yeah, I've met people and one of the things we have on academic training when you look at people who do different things for their life livelihood skills and all the things they do and it's our job to look at them and clean how much we can learn from them get all that training and don't get the skills on paper and they're not really good at it. Let's talk about that one. Yes. Yes. Yes, you know, it's it's heartbreaking to watch a person.

24:29 At the academically exposed himself to knowledge of the ages and their visceral physical spiritual part is completely blocked off and completely separated and they have not even touched what on paper they know but they don't know as an aspect of their life on the other hand. When you even look at a man or a woman who does a woman cooking dangerous things and she just listened through it cuz she's got Skillz allowed myself to be a holistic person and then you want somebody who's academically very highly qualified for who is effectively separated himself from anything. That's real.

25:29 And he he or she has no skill was really really very very proud of you.

25:40 I said I like this lady. She's

25:44 Knock it off.

25:54 You've met his daughter. Yeah. Yeah good briefly. But yeah.

26:00 I know that shaped you both so, you know, which one of us should start.

26:11 Yeah, I've been on a hormone regimen when I was 12 to stunt my growth and it interferes with my hormones. Yeah, what?

26:22 Stop me from being tall. Yeah, it didn't work very well. I was just said that I was slated to be 6 to I was like cool boy 6 to all dominate, you know, you're too big and so it did it manage. It messed me up something fierce in the thing. I didn't know all through my younger adult years was it caused my spine to be confused? Yeah, so I'll show you guys. I know this won't work for the recording but look watch me to look over my shoulder.

27:05 That's it. Yeah. So anyways, when I came to Parenting I had a hard time with pregnancy cuz I didn't realize it with your spine solid in the baby kicking. It's like back pain like you wouldn't believe but he came pretty fast. I didn't have to deal with excess time or anything and his birth was hard. I had 32 hours labor and then they decided to do a C-section. I heard you're sitting there crying like couldn't have it figured that out already two damn hours ago. Yeah surgical table my his dad came over and put them on my chest and I couldn't touch him and so he was like, it's sliding down towards my neck was like what you got. I hope somehow and nobody would let me up from the table to hold my baby.

27:58 Jaws real upset the first time I met my baby then the next day I met him and he look like me and my dad is a baby and it's just like this a little like little fireworks, He's my baby, you know, and he was absolutely phenomenal baby. He he laughed and smiled from the day. He was born and I can remember a nap coming in and going no babies. Don't do that. It's gas. It's not a smile and then when he came when they brought him in from the nursery for everybody to meet him cuz he he had to be in the nursery for a while because of bilirubin they brought him and he looks around the room and still Smiles it everybody. Oh my God, and that was what parenting was like was is he was always happy. I think I remember

28:46 2 * of him being upset when he was a kid, seriously.

28:50 You're also a people, What are you doing? It's like I just don't get in the way. I don't know where I got a good deal, you know.

28:59 Noel I think so off at Skyline management

29:03 When you managed like an office or something is supposed to go tell people what to do. No good manager just make sure you have the tools you need and they get out of the way and they catch it if you're getting frustrated and I come talk to you and I think Karen is much like that. And so I never really interfere with my kid much. I just if you wanted to do something, I'd let him earlier sing that story about how he learned how to read you securing Nintendo Power Magazine around when he was 2 and 303. I guess it was not to talk to me and says, you know, I do want to read I was like, okay, that's cool. If can you help me find figure out how someone up to you receive what's wrong, set of books called Bob Books and each one of the books is a another to sounds in the alphabet and it was reading I didn't read them the book. He read them to himself it come out and ask my best friend's house. And then if I start to say something

30:03 It myself it's like okay. I'll take care of yourself and he from there on.

30:10 Yeah, and people how to do that. Looks like I just didn't stop him from doing it. That's all.

30:16 That's kind of my approach to parenting.

30:21 You know when I was studying preschool education to Seattle Central Community.

30:36 She made a statement. She said I don't want to see anybody get in the way of the child. So yeah, I have to teach child. You just have to give that child what he or she needs to do the work but you sounded like you were doing that for me. My daughter 41. I didn't know that I was I was late. I was a late bloomer. I was very selfish and I had big fun and so I didn't but when I had my daughter, I was ready to be a father that's totally ready and I enjoyed every bit of it and her mother was interesting because her mother was a zookeeper for real for real awesome. Basically, she inferred that she picked me because she was used to work with the Gorillaz.

31:31 Nnnnn, my daughter my daughter was was challenged. But what a lovely Challenge and my education help me manage being a father and a my age was a big asset because I wasn't ready to have a child before they want the baby. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I was I was a musician and I was playing with my schedule and my daughter is the musician really is very very fine musician. So I'd like to think that all the struggle that I went through.

32:31 She'd be pretty smart.

32:33 But but the childhood was my degree was in peace with a little bit of help and doing it and and and the big thing that I learned from being a parent you didn't leave your kid with the the people after his you took care of her all day long all night long. I never went a little yellow bus did not come and take my daughter. I said, he said I have to take her he was really so fun to me. I I didn't didn't have the benefit of your your intellectual. Okay that I I had to do it other ways and I had a lot of nice things happening in terms of friends and cool and I had a lady friend.

33:33 Wanted to have a baby because she was inspired by my child and I begged rested. Please don't have a baby until you have somebody in your life and she didn't listen to me and she wouldn't had the kid and the poor woman was just so so exhausted and they don't tell you about what it takes to have a child, you know, you know, that's why they had that for additional family structure that you have all a lot of people to help share the burden of the child Yeah Yeahs. Now, you're totally isolated by yourself really really difficult could be because they don't get that back to back up that we had. You have to create it for your kid going to think like you have to go find some activities. You have to go find other kids.

34:33 Yeah, but did you want another was you have to have a native intelligence and you have to love your child enough to want to use that intelligence to make like good for them because it's not about you. It's about a child totally about the child. A lot of people forget that when you have a child that's a compact with the world that you going to raise your child not going to raise yourself and it's not I will come along but it's a child that's important. Yeah, it was so funny cuz like I think people think once your kids school age, they're done and it's like no no. No, you're not think they hope that's true. That's true figure out why that happened cuz my son was approaching that age, you know.

35:26 And I ended up meeting a couple of the kids who would survive the shooting and I started going to the government printing office and readings on crime statistics showing kids get in trouble. Seriously between 3 and 5 the vast majority of juvenile crime is between 3 and 5 Yeah couple hours depending on what they got to do. You know, some kids will stay home and watch TV other kids will go don't need all those candy bars in the store. I'll go get them, you know, you know, you know when they think of a child the child supposed to be babysat by TV supposed to be having a relationship with their people around them, but what scares me to death is watching cell phones and parenting because you watch you watch a parent and they have a cell phone did not into a computer.

36:26 Talking with the child did talking to the person at the other end of the cell phone got into technology really early. We won the first house is wired and Seattle and so all the other kids and they were like, you can go online we've heard about online who know and it's funny because like some of the kids who we had with parents were like, they will never have a computer and a home. Yes. She will who are you to tell me we'll have a computer in her home if I trust me it's coming, you know, if we went through this whole thing of teaching people and David even did it with his friends. He brought friends over to play on the computer and what not, but we always kind of had little borderline rules, but the one thing was only stuff that they could look at with stuff that they wouldn't be embarrassed to see me see them see

37:21 And so they start giggling one-time Pamela Anderson, and it's okay. She's on TV. Okay, I went back and his friend got his pictures of Pamela Anderson and you always right in the world, but it's fine cuz now the priorities are work rather than you know, what trouble can I get into downloading the Anarchist Cookbook?

37:51 What they didn't know if I gave him permission to do it cuz I knew I knew enough about it cuz of I had a brother who played with fireworks when he was a kid and the actress cookbooks been stepped on a bunch of Samosa recipes aren't any good. So I might grab my son's grandfather is a metal metallurgist.

38:14 Or was a metallurgist. And I said is if you want to do any of the stuff you have to wait for Saba to be in town you can do it, but I want you to be safe because if you don't do it you can do like people in my mom's family lawyer fingers off my family. I didn't get a telephone telephone until I lose my family wasn't wired. And in fact, I was I think I built my daughter a computer a computer when I was in school. She she had a friend who was a computer savvy to computer.

39:14 With one hand. She is really technically Savvy you know it and you know it.

39:27 Yeah, it's it's it's

39:30 Would wouldn't you you know, you get to be my age?

39:41 Life is really good. It is so much stuff happening and leave the society has to catch up to the benefits. It has four people and if they don't catch up, then they make it onuris and they take away because DVD the pleasure pleasure principle is what makes people continue to grow what makes people not just sit and mindlessly look at TV functionally the TV because I remember watching a children's book about you watch the TV set with your child discuss it with your Triumph you interact with it with your child. Not you put your shot of the corner and forget about them. And then when I say I see is people for

40:41 Getting that been apparent the other one that nurture the children and they need to really enjoy that because it's not just work, but it's Pleasure P with the most exciting thing in your life, but you just told me that

41:04 At at at 82 life is just really exciting and my biggest challenge sometimes has to get people to.

41:13 Allow me to do the things that I'm supposed to be doing either because they don't know the

41:19 The stages of growth stages in a child's life but there's also stages in a seniors Life Book for seniors. I like it. But basically the idea of like, what do you do when you have to put on pull ups the first time what do you do when you need to walk or what do you do? When did you think about everybody has to like reinvent the wheel personally? I know thank you reinvent the wheel and I was looking at it. I wanted I have wonderful Walker via the VA and I was thinking I wanted a really good worker. I can't describe it. But I know I wanted and I saw somebody with a brand-new shiny Walker.

42:13 All paint and everything. Yeah, it's just got paid. It doesn't have anything new anything Innovative and anything enhancing it just has paid, you know, and so I'm saying to myself, you know, what the big the big innovation is on these things the seat. I love my Walker seat could not do without my say yeah, I couldn't do it at my feet because my seat allows me a freedom that I would not have normal and Anna and I will I will tell you that it's the Walker is dangerous because it keeps you from being functional sometimes because I'm chill but my brake on and off but is it is it is a really think about that man telling me I look like a duck and I needed to Walker and

43:13 And I I'd like to go and see he was right.

43:22 Yep, I met a lot of lot of people would help me grow and I'm very very grateful. I like that about you that you're mindful of that has been given to me. You know, when I I played Santa Claus and I did that because I wanted to tell everybody thank you for welcoming me and letting me come the part of your community I missed it. I was peeved with myself and I said you are not a handsome Santa Claus.

44:05 Pulleys

44:10 One thing you would add to Heritage House if you had a magic wand, what would you add?

44:15 Every flipped I know what it is. I would flip the front door. It opens from the hinges on the wrong side. And so when you open it, you kind of have to like move the whole door in yourself first with open like this. You could go straight in the thing is you think about people with real chairs. So that would really be important to them. You're right on the money. You're right on the money.

44:47 What about your what would you change about Heritage House Heritage House?

44:53 II Desu business analyst subtle pressure about schedule that it that that they have and they they Pride themselves and not having any hard-and-fast rules about when you do things but this very subtle prices I eat people want to expect expedited jobs and I would make it a little bit more enhancing for creativity and for functionality that would be the thing that I would want to change because it is sometimes like you know, you you you get up and you're tired cuz I'm going through some medication that I have to get up and go on and I would like not to have to do that. But other than that place is killing. Yeah.

45:46 Best french fries in town

45:57 Yeah, I don't think anybody who's never been in here understands how cool the building is Seattle don't tell anybody had graded is.

46:15 Will have me of New York hair.