Karen Countryman-Roswurm and Ashley Garrett

Karen (K) and Ashley (A) talk about the first time they met.

K shares that in elementary school her dream was to be a comedian. She says she never could have imagined the difficult things she’d have to face in life, especially in childhood, but she also could never have imagined the beautiful things would happen.

A says that growing up there was a big focus on career and she vacillated between wanting to be a therapist and a singer/performer. A says she never imagined living in Washington DC, being a single mom, or working at a national and international level.

K shares that she went from being a high school dropout to later on getting her PhD. K says that many of the social workers who served her and who talked down to her would later be in her class or attend one of her training sessions.

A highlights the idea of operating with the assumption that there are always survivors in the room. K talks about the importance of not re-exploiting or demoralizing survivors.

A talks about what her future holds. She says after about thirty-five years in the anti-trafficking field, she wants to find a space that creates more of a balance in her life.

K says there comes a point when a true survivor spirit no longer looks like running so fast. K reflects on a journey she is on to see what the future holds. K’s hope is to spend a lot more time reading and writing. K shares she wants to write books of poetry. K says her big dream is to purchase a house in the country where she can host retreats for others.

A talks about how the poem, ‘The Road Not Taken,’ by Robert Frost has impacted her.

A shares advice she would have given herself: it is important early on to build ways that help you take care of you so that you can take care of others. K shares advice to her younger self: as humans, we want to think of ourselves in noble terms and we really have to be careful not to lose our identities in this [anti-trafficking] work. K says she would tell herself that your significance is not found in what you do, how busy you are, how many people are proud of you, etc.

A and K reflects on how the anti trafficking field is at a precipice moment where it can move towards being a more restorative movement. They explain that too often trafficking is dealt with in a silo. K says she hopes that rather than reactive band-aid work, systems can be built to help people. K says racism, classism, and sexism are so prevalent in the United State’s criminal legal system. A talks about the importance of supporting families and not just treating the individual.

A says she hopes that she has done some part in creating space for other voices and creating opportunities for people with lived experiences to lead and to transform. A says as a parent she wants her son to know that he has both an opportunity to demand to be at the table and that there are people out there that will walk with him. K reflects on how A has created space for her. K says she has been pivotal in changing legislation but the thing she has done that she is most proud of is the number of individuals she has been able to meet exactly where they are. K says she is honored to have received the support and healing that helped her be able to do that for others.